TO THE EDITOR: Macedonia or FYROM?

16:00 Fri 07 Dec 2007

(The article A Sisyphea dispute - The Sofia Echo, November 30 - led to a number of readers’ letters. These are some.)

I am afraid that your summation of the FYROM name dispute only gives the initial appearance of objectivity and is in fact implicitly weighted against the Greek position. Citing Shea as an authority on the issue is like quoting Voltaire to characterise Christianity. We need a full historical analysis that takes the views of both sides seriously. I have yet to see one, and clearly the EU and the US are not interested in ever seeing one.
John J. Yiannias

You attempted objectivity in this report but fell prey to Skopjan propaganda. That being that Greek Macedonia is only populated by refugees from the Greco-Turkish after 1923. By doing this, you mistakenly imply that no Greeks lived in the region before that when in fact, they have lived there for thousands of years, unlike the slavic Macedonians. Also, your comment that the name Macedonia was never used in Greek Macedonia before 1991 is wrong. When I was a student in the 1970s, we were always told that the northern region of Greece was called Macedonia. There are also buildings and Greek newspapers dating from before this period that carry the name Macedonia as part of their title. This was a case of poor, biased reporting.
Ion

I think it is very offensive that instead of the name of the country: Republic of Macedonia, you actually use an acronym (FYROM). If you have a problem to use the name that the citizens of the country have chosen: Republic of Macedonia, you can, at least use the UN temporary reference: The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. The acronym is insulting and inaccurate. The main Greek argument against the constitutional name of Republic of Macedonia is that it will be confusing with the Greek province of Macedonia. But if we check the facts, we can easily realise that Greece administratively is divided into 13 provinces (peripherias), and none of them is named Macedonia. There are three that has the word Macedonia in their name: The province of Western Macedonia, The province of Central Macedonia and the Province of Eastern Macedonia with Trace, but there is no one single administrative unit that has the name Macedonia only. So, there is no room for confusion.
Goran Stojanov

The only solution to the situation created in the Balkans by the Western Powers and Russia themselves is to return all of Macedonia to its people, the Macedonians! They are the innocent indegenous population who were shut out at the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest and are still suffering under foreign occupation. It’s time that Macedonians have the same human rights as all people and the freedom to live and identify themselves as Macedonians. How long can this Greek and Bulgarian charade about the non-existence of Macedonians continue? I’m Macedonian and proud of it!
Makaton

History tells us that Macedon was an ancient Greek city state during and way before the time of Alexander the Great. If you study the historical accounts, these peoples have Hellenic names, Hellenic culture written all over them. Macedonia has absolutely nothing to do with Slavic peoples who came into the region during the late Byzantine era. The Christianised Greeks at the time called these people slavee because who knows perhaps they were used as slaves, actually they were. In other words, these Slavs have no historical connection with the Golden Age of Greece and the Hellenistic era when the “Hellenic” way was spread dramatically and flourished all over Asia thanks to Megas Alexandros conquering most of the known world and paving the way for the Greek language to become the universal language of educated peoples which lasted for centuries, hence why the Bible was written in original Greek. Slavs have nothing to do with Macedonia, 70 per cent of the original ancient Macedonia is located in Greece, and Bulgaria, Albania and FYROMania has the rest. For FYROM to take this name and take credit for its history is a phony! It’s a problem that needs a solution. You will not steal our name and our history because “Makedonia” was, and always will be Greek!
Truth vs propaganda is what this is and I hope that truth will prevail.
Angelo

Comments

Comments by FTROG - 23:32 07 Dec 2007
	I just want to say 'Hi' to my neighbors from the Former Turkish Republic Of Greece.
Comments by David Carr-Glenn - 01:05 08 Dec 2007
	i find it laughable that you refer to Greece as FTROG. Was this an attempt to try and insult the Greek people who might i add nobody is desputing their right to call themselves Greeks (except maybe some FYROM extremists who do it out of spite). I find it pathetic that you call Greece 'The Former Turkish Republic of Greece' when first there was no Turkey prior to 1920 (it was the Ottoman Empire) and second that all of the geographic region of Macedonia was under Ottoman rule for almost 100 years more than Greece was... So really if you want to call Greece FTROG you might want to consider the more accurate term FOROG (Ottoman) and while we're at it we can also refer to FYROM as FOROM. Seriously FYROM needs to adopt a title that will reflect its geographic realities. Upper Macedonia or Nova Macedonia or something like that. Greece has been extremely flexible lately (considering their initial position was that the term 'Macedonia' could not be used at all) and FYROM needs to start taking this issue seriously and not coming up with half baked solutions like the 'double formula' because this is a joke. Greece's objection with FYROM's constitutional name is not that it doesnt want to call it that its that they dont want the world to know FYROM as 'Macedonia'. They dont want the legacy of ancient macedonia (to which leaders of FYROM have in the past claimed they do not have any connection to - but the citizens believe otherwise) to be monopolised by a people that do not deserve it.
Comments by Daskalos - 02:06 08 Dec 2007
	It is time that Greeks started referring to our northern neighbours as ethnic Macedonians. Calling them Bulgarians, when they themselves state that they are Macedonians is unfair. Having said that, it is time for ethnic Macedonians to understand that they cannot keep up with their irridentist propaganda against Greece or indeed any of their neighbours. It is important that a democratic Macedonia exists in the Balkans, in the EU and NATO. However, Macedonia cannot demand that countries members to the EU and NATO, such as Bulgaria and Greece, change their allegedly backward mentalities, without Macedonia making the effort to respect her own ethnic minorities and their linguistic and political rights. The whole world witnessed in 2001 and still witnesses the attitude of Macedonia towards a third of its population, and Macedonia's attempts to enable Boskovski and Tarculovski, two Macedonian officials/war criminals to walk unpunished from the Hague Court in 2005 and 2007. Macedonia must also stop pretending to be "a suppressed ancient nation of... proto-Slavic Macedonians superior to sub-Saharan African Greeks and Turkic Mongol Bulgarians, directly descending from Alexander the Great" and all this nazi rhetoric. Macedonian universities continue to produce despicable works, suggesting purity and superiority of Macedonian DNA over Greeks and Bulgarians. Macedonian academics are falsifying linguistic data on the Rosetta Stone. Inspite of Champollion's masterful de-coding work, unqualified linguists and self-proclaimed historians are publishing works suggesting that the modern Macedonian nation's language forms the foundation of all language on earth. How can you expect anyone to allow you to march your way into the EU or NATO unchecked, when you behave like a group of lunatics run by a former terrorist organisation (VMRO-DPMNE) ? You see, Macedonians, the so called "name dispute" between Macedonia and Greece is not just about the name of Macedonia. It is mostly about your hostile attitude towards your own people, your neighbours and your arrogant behaviour, perhaps a bit TOO arrogant for such a small, insignificant and newly formed, multiethnic Balkan nation.
Comments by ChapstickL - 01:29 10 Dec 2007
	Posted by Makaton "The only solution to the situation created in the Balkans by the Western Powers and Russia themselves is to return all of Macedonia to its people, the Macedonians! They are the innocent indegenous population who were shut out at the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest and are still suffering under foreign occupation." -And this is the main reason the "name issue" exists. There is a relatively high percentage of (Slav)Macedonians who share Makaton's batty sentiments of a "United Macedonia". This is exactly why this country cannot be known as simply "Macedonia". A composite name such as Gorna Macedonia is the only solution.
Comments by Gemidjia - 04:19 13 Dec 2007
	Slavs have nothing to do with Macedonia? Excuse me? Macedonia was populated by Slavs 1500 years ago. Only after the forcible population exchanges post 1913 has the population in Greek Macedonia been altered to favour the Greeks. I will remind you that the peoples of Western Europe today also settled that area circa 1500 years ago aswell. Are Greeks suggesting these peoples have nothing to do with Europe?
Comments by Jon - 03:43 14 Dec 2007
	Gemidjia,I believe what is being said is that, yes, the Slavs along with Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarans, and others have shared the geographic region called Macedonia but the Slavs have nothing to do with the Ancient Kingdom of Macedonia which gives its name to the region. Because the region of Macedonia is much larger than the boundaries of the FYR Macedonia,it makes no sense to call the country Republic of Macedona which implies a connection with the ancient kingdom rather than a geographic region. That is why a composite name is needed that uses a geograhic descrptor such as Gornamacedonia or the like.
Comments by Biljana - 15:42 15 Dec 2007
	Greeks, you forgot exist other history.You are closed in this history of yours like all your country inside.No,other nations inside greece.No other faith inside Greece.Just chritianity ortodox?You are all crazy.Sleep in your drems.MACEDONIAN
Comments by Jon - 22:13 15 Dec 2007
	Biljana, if I understand you correctly, then you must also know that there exists only one history in your inward-looking national consciousness that appears to think that your are decedent from Adam and Eve and every other nation springs forth from you. This is what your so-called social scientists and educators are pushing on your unfortunate children. In seeking to develop a national consciousness, you are guilty of stealing others' cultural identities in order to develop your own. In reality, your notion of the history of Macedonia is a revisionist version of what has been accepted by nearly all true academics and educated peoples, that Macedonia was a Hellenic kingdom that spread Hellenic ideals and the Greek language and culture, that worshiped the 12 Greek gods and spoke a dialect of Greek. The Slavs didn't come into the picture until 9 centuries later. These are undisputed facts, that is except for the historical innaccuracies taught in your schools.
Comments by Biljana - 02:37 16 Dec 2007
	Mr.Jon Have you ever been in Republic of Macedonia?Welcome.Personaly i wish to show you archeological facts.I ll not talk.We ll go just on 2 places not more Ohrid and Stoby so,you are going to see from which period are by your self.Welcome to MACEDONIA.
Comments by Biljana - 02:47 16 Dec 2007
	Also my question is?How greeks are serching for Macedonia.They are not recognaizing any Macedonian in greece.If they have let them to take their own private real estate.Your answer we know.Doesnt exist macedonian minoriti in greece.So what you can find in greece.Just greeks and 2million muselems in the centar of Athens.
Comments by Gemidjia - 01:08 17 Dec 2007
	Upper Macedonia? OK if this is the preferred solution, then will Greece recognise it's Slavic speaking minority as Upper Macedonians & their language as Upper Macedonian?
Comments by Paul Kouts - 01:47 27 Dec 2007
	Macedonians were one of several Ancient Greek tribes, like the Dorians, Ionians, etc. All of them shared a common Greek language and the same religion and customs. Ancient Macedonia rose to dominate the rest of Greece, and established a World Hellenistic Empire, which spread Greek language as the main international language for centuries to come, promoting Greek civilization and culture in the then-known world. After the decline of Rome, Macedonia was for over one thousand years administratively an integral part of the Greek Empire of Byzantium, retaining its Greek character, Greek culture, Greek administration, and Greek language. One of the most glorious dynasties of Byzantium was the Macedonian Dynasty (811 - 1056 A.D.) that defeated in this region the external and internal foes of the Greek Byzantine Empire, and advanced the celebrated "Macedonian Renaissance", characterised by its affinity to ancient Greece. Nearly one thousand years after the era of Alexander the Great, Slavic tribes from Asia established some presence in the Balkans. After the decline and fall of the Byzantine Empire and the conquest of the Balkans by the Ottoman Turks, the Sanjak (administrative and military district) of Macedonia was created by the Sultans. The more recent Balkan Wars of 1912-13, which displaced the Turks from Macedonia, left Greece with nearly two thirds of the area of Classical Macedonia, including all the important archaeological sites (an area amounting to roughly an equivalent two thirds of the former Turkish Sanjak of Macedonia). The rest of the territory of Macedonia was taken in 1913 by Bulgaria, Albania, and Yugoslavia. In the part of Macedonia controlled by Yugoslavia, the communist regime of Tito, at the end of the Second World War, created the so-called "Federal Republic of Macedonia", which comprised the Yugoslavian part of Macedonia plus another, larger tract of territory to the north, which was never part of Macedonia proper in any historical period of time. Skopja, the capital city of this entity in our days, lies to the north, deep outside the Macedonian territory proper. The creation by Tito of this Federal Yugoslave entity under this unlikely usurped name facilitated the communist propaganda (before the rift between Tito and Stalin), with the aim of subverting Greek Macedonia, in order to create a a larger communist-dominated Slavic region with access to the Mediterranean (Aegean Sea), in which region the Greek population would of course be eventually eliminated. Thankfully, with the help of all civilised world at that time, this scheme did not pass. But some of the protagonists or nostalgists of this aborted scheme continue to-date in Skopja, trying to maintain the fiction of the pseudo-state, fabricating a non-existing historical past and national symbols that do not belong to their peoples' own history. Every educated person in the world knows that Macedonia, in name and culture, has throughout history been an integral part of the Greek world. All archaeological finds in Macedonia reveal Greek language, Greek artifacts, and Greek names. As we all know from the ancient historians and from our modern school history-books, in his campaign against the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great advanced against the enemy with the battle-cry "For the Glory of Greece". With a small part of Macedonia under their control, people in Skopja continue today to disseminate their ludicrous un-historical propaganda. The absurdity of the situation can be demonstrated easily by the way of a hypothetical example. The current situation is similar with the one that might have arisen after the Second World War if the Poles had demanded that their country should from then on be called "Prussia". And then insist that the great German-Prussian Frederic the Great was indeed their own Polish-Prussian national hero. Of course the Poles never contemplated such a rediculous scheme, being proud of their own national identity and not wishing to usurp another country's history and symbols. What we observe today in Skopja is really shameful, and a case-study of mass self-delusion.
Comments by andy orfanakos - 20:23 28 Feb 2008
	if people are going to comment on any issue, especialy history they should get their facts straight before they start mouthing off . if those pseudo-macedonions who came into that region after the roman empire fell,want to know the truth, they don,t have to believe the greek version of history or the psuedo-macedonion version . read the old testament (danial to be exact). this was written before the birth of christ and before the birth of megas alexandros. may be the word of GOD might convince you that macedonians( meaning tall in greek) were-are - and always will be greek, why because the bible calls them greeks-alexander the great states him self after defeating the ATHENIANS in asia THAT NO GREEK WILL EVER FIGHT A GREEK AGAIN.qeustion if alexander was not greek don,t you think that after conquering the known world that he would have left someting in the so called macedonian ( not greek) language. but he did leave a lot of greek didn,t he. idon,t expect that this is going to change anything simply because peolpe of psuedo origins do not have anything real to believe in so they try to adopt their neighbours identity, i;e; slavs trying to become psuedo-greeks. some day GOD will enlighten these people .