Lebanon has been through lots of years of civil war. This has maybe helped build the nation psychologically, but would you say that it is helping Lebanon now?
I would not qualify what has happened in Lebanon since 1975 as civil war. From 1975 until this latest round of battles, Lebanon was caught in the wars of others. And when the institutions of a country are subjected to such a high level of violence, it is understandable that frictions between certain factions in the country appear and result in elements of civil war. From 1975 to 1982, we were caught into the violent dialectic of the problem of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) presence in Lebanon. The PLO was extremely powerful and used Lebanon not only to promote itself politically, but also to launch military attacks against our neighbours. After that (1982) came the Israel invasion of Lebanon.
Don’t you think that this might make the Lebanese feel too much like the scapegoat of the region?
I would not say that this would happen. The Lebanese have (actually) felt this way for many years: that their territory was used as the area for a larger conflict. There is no question about it.
This kind of feeling would generally win Hezbollah more support. Do you see more people gather around radical Muslim organisations now, because they are the ones giving out more humanitarian aid?
The reconstruction of Lebanon will mainly come from the Lebanese government, and this was clearly stated. Hezbollah has effectively distributed some assistance to families for rebuilding houses.
The ability of the Lebanese government to control the country has been doubted. Before this conflict, Lebanon controlled some two thirds of the country. You are already moving into south Lebanon, but there is the issue of Hezbollah and the issue of disarming Hezbollah. How able will the Lebanese government be to control Hezbollah?
Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government. And the very important decisions about Lebanon, such as the deployment of the Lebanese army in the south and the approval of resolution 1701, were made unanimously. So, I would put the question differently. Lebanon is a democratic country where things are achieved through discussion and consensus. We are confident that Hezbollah will want Lebanon to become a stable, peaceful country.
An American journalist in The New Yorker – Jon Lee Anderson – said that the United States has waged wars in Afghanistan and in Iraq, but then given little for their reconstruction. At the moment, what are Lebanese feeling toward the US? To what extent does the image of Israel and the image of the US overlap?
The feelings toward the US are mixed. There is both this looking to the US for political and economic support, and this strong feeling that the US, given its very close relationship with Israel, is not giving Lebanon the necessary support. But let us not confuse things. You cannot talk about overlapping images. We have had close relations with the US since the establishment of independent Lebanon.
The UN urges Israel to give maps of the regions littered by cluster bombs, to make a commitment as to when they would leave southern Lebanon, to lift the blockade, but results are usually dubious.
We believe that the UN is doing quite a lot. The earlier draft of resolution 1701 was refused by the Lebanese government, and then revised. The revision did not respond to Lebanese calls 100 per cent, but it certainly took into consideration some elements. So, we look to it as a document that would be implemented fully.
The European Union has decided to play a more decisive role in the Middle East (ME). Do you see that as a turning point that would change the fabric of international involvement in the ME? So far, we have mostly seen the US contribute.
The EU has played a constructive role in the peace process and that will certainly continue as many countries commit troops to UNIFIL (United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon) and give funds for reconstruction. So, we certainly consider this a turning point for Lebanon, and a turning point for the region’s politics.
All ME problems point to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is why the international community insists on a lasting solution that would heed the road map for peace. But the road map has been deterred by both sides since the very start. I have a friend who went to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem and prayed for peace, but, he said, he felt so much resistance to that idea immediately, that it was obvious for him that those people do not want peace.
It is this whole notion of what is peace. You could simplify it by saying that peace is a state of affairs where nobody is shooting with a gun, right? But under this category you could put any situation of repression and occupation. These issues between these two entities are not only between states, but also between people. The Israelis and the Palestinians have to come to terms so that each one accepts the other. That’s on the human level; I will not go too much into the political details. You know that there was a summit (the Arab summit in Beirut in March 2002), and at the end of it there was a resolution giving a plan for peace in the ME (mapped by Saudi Arabian prince Abdullah and calling for a complete withdrawal from the 1967-occupied territories and the return of refugees, although not specifying where they would return to – Israel or Palestine). The last paragraph of the latest UN resolution recognises that in order to have lasting peace in Lebanon, or in the larger ME, you have to address the Arab-Israeli problem, and that is essentially the Palestine-Israel problem. But not only that, because it talks about the Golan Heights as well, which is a Syria-Israel issue.
When do you see the current situation stabilise? Peace between Lebanon and Israel is still considered fragile.
As we implement this resolution. Not only in its form, but also in its spirit, and taking into consideration the Shebaa Farms issue, which was at the core of the problem. My hope is that it will happen this year. But the wounds of the stone are easier to heal than human wounds. Lebanon can be reconstructed quickly because our people are very hard-working. They are very optimistic. But healing the wounds of souls and bodies, people who have lost arms and legs and have been maimed for life...
This effort usually involves non-government organisations. Does Lebanon have enough of those?
There are never enough to deal with the issue in situations like this. But Lebanon has been through these problems so many times that you have a lot of attention within society itself. People cannot live in their own shells. They extend their hand to their neighbour, and in fact that has been the main source of support for the Lebanese people. The story of war is something very ugly, but, even in the most ugly thing, there is something beautiful and that is the human aspect.
You were in Lebanon during the war.
I went there for a few days of vacation, but I was caught in as the war started. You will ask why I didn’t leave. It is because I wanted to leave through Beirut airport.
It is an issue of pride.
Yes, it is an issue of pride.
Weren’t you afraid?
You cannot pretend that you have no fear; unless you are completely deaf. Our house is very close to the area that was bombarded by the Israeli aircraft and many times we felt as if we were in an earthquake.
You are smiling now…
You smile because at the end of it you think ‘I made it, I’m alive’. And, oddly enough, it doesn’t destroy you and it doesn’t mean ‘I am a survivor’. It means ‘I am going to make a good life for myself and for my family and for my people’, and ‘I will not accept that I would be dismissed as a human being’. Of course, you have the feelings of fear and indignation: why should this small country be subjected to such suffering, and for reasons often unrelated to it. Let alone the indignation against the enemy and against seeing people suffer for no fault of theirs. But the ultimate feeling is that life is worth living. You come out of it thinking: ‘I was lucky’. Many people didn’t get though it.
Are there organisations in Lebanon that have Israeli and Lebanese people working together?
No, there have been quite a few endeavours like that involving Israeli and Palestinian children. But we have none.
Is now the moment to build them?
I think that issues should first be addressed in the terms already stated in the resolution. I know it sounds legalistic, but this should happen first, and the human aspect will follow. This is a very ancient conflict. And it will take a lot of statesmanship from all sides before we have a breakthrough and a situation where everybody knows what the problems are and what solutions can be found. There needs to be good statesmanship by all those who eventually will have to make the ME a peaceful region.
