Yes, I read many books of international values, books which are writen fo children and adults.
I even read Bible.
Yes, Greeks and Greece are everywheare. The name is in such
imense usage that it gives one a huge filing of disbelif.
Can this be true, that Greeks educated the world? Then I looked at many maps, moders, and ancient Roman. I was shocked. In one ancient map there was Greece, in its glorious 100% size as is today in modern maps.
Could it be true that Greece was this [...]

Read the full comment shape and size since antiquity? I ask muself.
Could it be that R. of Macedonija was in its same shape today, back in antiquity? I searched wikopedija up and down, side ways
and around ways, and I found Greece, and Greeks all abound, as if no other nations of people ever got a chanse to develop and become in their right individual.
Even said that Greeks fought amongst themselves. Can you belive. Greeks fighting their own?
Kiling each other. I must reserch more, to find why there is one map which is new, from modern time of not long ago, which shows Greece
only at the bothom of the map and everything up was the name Makedonia. Somebody made a mistake.
I tought Maybe the troble Greece has is because they are tired old
race of people and are about to give up being all knowing, all doing, all helpfule and obliging nation. Maybe, just maybe they are seek of it all. Stil am sercing
I'll be in touch. by for now.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

It is good to see people comun in
good way. If only they could live in peace togather by acnolaging one
another, will be haven on earth.
Having said that, I am positiv that
Macedonians have existed long before all other nations in Balkan.
Its longevity surpases all.
But they sime to ambrace new nations and with them in mind grow
and create new future.
Sadly, today those new nations do not recognise the descendants of old Macedonians. It is sad.
Are [...]

Read the full comment Greeks stil dancing their national danc, the Karpathian Horo?
Just asking. With respect to all,

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

Macedonians are not Greeks, they are their own country. Greeks are afraid of Macedonian power, and fear a future takeover now that they are a bankrupt country borrowing money from everyone. Macedonians speak their own language different from Greeks who coward from the truth

Fyrom have slavic race,nothing with Makedonia!is very simple check your language (slavobulgarian dialect)check your name (slavic)nothing Makedonian!Stop be more rediculus,one circus nation,carnaval,you never be makedonian!Slavs you born,Slavs you die.....

The game-name by rediculus Gruevski the be over soon!Clasical sholars from around the world,people who realy know history,museum,all they know how rediculus and how idiotic is this propaganda from Fyrom,Greece never accept this fake country with this name....this is very clear!

FYROM calling themselfs Macedonians is historically inappropriate as the article tells us. Macedonians are not Slavs, they are Greeks, Macedonians don't speak Bulgarian they speak Greek. FYROM are slavs which arrived into Europe 1000 years after Alexander The Great so how could FYROM claim to be Macedonians since the Ancient Macedonians always claim to be Greeks.......

Yes let's scratch the surface and talk about the truth for example the ancient macedonians never spelled Macedonia with a "j" thank you very much. Oh and how about this solun you talk about, funny how the ancient Macedonians never called it solun but THESSALONIKI. And let's be honest, there are no Roman, Byzantine, nor Ottoman record that mentions an "ethnic macedonian" race.

PS - your spelling is appalling to say the least

Hahahaha silly brainwashed Greek gjupci. Ignore them brothers.. How can you win an argument with someone who does not wish to seek the truth?? Athens fears the Macedonians. There country was built on lies. The surface just needs to be scratched to find the truth.

Yes Peter you are from Greece that makes you a Bulagrian like the rest of the Slavic Makedonski in Greece today. Your dedo and Baba were, are and always will be descendents of Bulgarians you can always use your Tito propaganda but it doesn't work on our people who have been here for over 4000 years. Your identity w\as forged in Tito's heyday and today you remain part of that dogama. Thats why the world still calls you all Slavs in Fyrom even if theye did recognise your pseudo name. So remember as a Slav you will always be Slavic [...]

Read the full comment just as we as Makedones we will always be Makedones.
See you next year, we are going on holidays to Makedonia Not Paeonia your homeland but real Makedonia where the ARHAEOI come from.

fyromian,the real problem with you is;You are unable to identify yourselfs because you dont know your own ancestry.This is the real reason you claim,or you lean towards the Macedonian identity.Your answere is absurd to say least!The ancient Macedonians were not Hellens nor the Hellens considered them to be,get it?.As I stated,I am from the Greek occupied Macedonia.My family land in my village according to the Greek information the toponims are identified in Macedonian as before the Greeks invasion of Macedonia in 1913.Our names were changed,but my great,great...grandfathers name never changed according the documents I have received from Lerin.Your absurd theory [...]

Read the full comment is from a first grader.

Peter your question why the Greeks and Bulgarians claim macedonian identity is easy. The Greeks have an ancient claim from Megas Alexandros and the Bulgarians have a modern claim from their czar samoil onwards. This Peter is why. All the rest you wrote is a piece of facade you like to rewrite over and over to make you feel good but otherwise is all fabrications. And the ancients did write about each other just as we do. The difference is the Athenians done most of the writing back then and most of the Makedones do the writng today. Makedones I [...]

Read the full comment mean the real ones not your Tito fabricated lot from Yugoslavia and todays FYROM.
Don't forget Peter your identity is just over 60 years old before your dedo and baba were like all other Fyromians good loving Bulgarians like Delchev and co. Today you like to call yourself our name but in reality our name is ours and yes we can share it but only to a point. You ARE Bulgarian rooted like VRMO which was created by the famous Bulgarians and we are Makedones of Greek tribal roots.

A response to Fyromanian and Kassandros;Why is it,allways you interpret history as everything in this world is Greek?.Yes,I have mentioned the Greek inteligentias comments on the difference between the Macedonians and Greeks.The truth does hurt you,does it not?.No longer you can get away from the truth.What you need is,first,find out from where are your ancestries before you can claim the absurdity of Macedonians were Greek.No such claim exists in history,this is a Greek propaganda.The Greek history has no base with that of ancient Hellens,let alone the Macedonian.You are discarding the ancient historians of 338 BC,and you are falsifying it.I bet,you [...]

Read the full comment cannot answer the following question;Why greece claims the Macedonian people are Greek,and why the Bulgarians claim same?.Can one ethnicity be two different ethnics?.The absurdity that has griped both of you is so disturbed one can not even begin to comprehand.You are such fools,you cannot even come to terms that this Peninsula was for 500 years under the Ottoman Empire,how can any of you claim Macedonia is yours?.Greece never existed before 1829.Macedonia was partitioned illigally in 1913 by the Big Powers.Durring the Roman Empire,Macedonia eas recognised as a Roman province,Greece is not even mentioned,it did not exist.The critique on my last comments by you guys is absurd.I give you the facts.By the way,I was born in occupied Aegean Macedonia,I speak macedonian language,and I may add,the whole geographical Macedonia speaks same macedonian language.Remember what Dendramis in 1925 said to the Bulgarian and Serbian representatives when Greece printed the Abecedar for the Macedonian school children?.There is a Polish proverb that goes like this;"Oshle,oshle,sam pishales a nie rozumiesh"Transalation,Jack ass,jack ass,you,yourself wrote and dont uderstand it".This should apply to the history written in 338 BC and todays fabricated Greek history.Ancients wrote the history,but it is not understood by the so-called Greeks.Just remember,Greeks are a multiple mixture of different ethnicities,with the majority being Albanians who converted to Christianity like Papulias.remember,the firs Prime Minister of Greece was a Vlah who served the Sultans court.Remember as well,durring the Ilinden uprising Tito was just born.The Macedonian people fought againts the Nazis,they won the right to become independent from the Serbs.Macedonians in occupied Aegean Macedonia fought the Nazis with over 185,000 men,but Greece negated their participation,whereas Tito recognised the Macedonian blood for freedom.The Republic of Macedonia won its recognition from the Federal Yugoslavia in 1944.Greece had trade agreements with Greece then,but since full independance,Greeces xenophobia griped the Greek polititians for no other reason than political survivor.Read what Mitsotakis sad durring an interview in 1995,you might come to the right conclusion.

Thats right Kassa it was Greeks against Greeks the only difference though was that the Lokrians, Thessakians, Fokaeans, were like the Macedonians only ethne while as you say the southern Greeks were all city-states.

Don't worry about Peter he has a split personality. As a child of Tito's brainwashing machine he has always thought that there are 2 peters on this sight. As usuall everything peter says is blatant lies and to be honest I think if Tito told him he is a pig herder from mars he would today call himself the Martian pig-herder so [...]

Read the full comment lets be fair its not his fault.

Fyrom comes from from but from doesn't come from Fyrom.

Apollo the Greek.. helloooo.. earth is calling.
I'm Macedonian of Greece.. and I'm suppressed from Greece.. and I dont know it?
Earth calling mars.Over.

Alexander the Great was never one of us nor was Macedonia of ancient times considered to be part of my Greece. Some of us Greeks agree with these historical truths and plead with our fellow Greeks to wake from this corrupt paranoid government perpetuated facade. The Greek government's agenda was to wipe the existence of all things Macedonian, but after 1991 that was changed to claim it as out heritage. Why? Blind paranoia and mindless fear of loosing the occupied Macedonian territories, which will never happen if our people are give the human rights that they deserve and the freedom [...]

Read the full comment of self-identity. Deny this, then all is lost.

Peter said
"Lets go to 338 BC and see what has happened.The Macedonians went to war againts the City States,and as evidance the battle of Chaeronea.Philip II of Macedonia won that battle,and as of the result,the Hellenic history stoped to exist"

So my propagandist friend, regarding the battle of Chaeronia.. it was not Macedonians against Greeks as Tito told you.
It was: Macedonians,Etolians,Thessalians,Fokeans,Lokreans
AGAINST Atheneans, Korinthians, Megareans, and Thebans.
Spartans were neutral because they didnt want to fight with Macedonians since the both were the same tribe; DORIANS [...]

Read the full comment

So Peter it was not Macedonians against Greek city states. It was a coalition of Greek city states against a coalition of Greek city states!

Read history and your full of Tito's propaganda mind will clear..

Peter
oh dear!!!! not again the same old revisionism .Will uou continue witH Dendramia,Skoulariki or Karassaidou we havee treaded on those issues some time ago.
Once and for all my good man Macedonia was a geographical entity and not a state.

I'm going up into the attic to get out the old pre-1989 maps (I have a collection from all over Europe - the ones of the German Democratic Republic are particularly interesting !) Meanwhile, here's a link to a study which at least attempts to be objective between the two sides of the Macedonian Question - not sure how far it succeeds !
http://thula.wordpress.com/2008/03/15/where-is-macedonia/

We are two Peters on this site.Let me identify myself as the one who questioned Valeris comment.Now lets get to the real history.We as Macedonians deffend our rights who we are.History is very clear,we are not Bulgarians for a simple reason,Bulgarians are not who they think they are.Bulgarians are strugling to identify themselves from where they came to the present area according to their historians.Some say they are from Bahtria,some say from Persia.Macedonians have lived in the Mediterean for centuries before Bulgarians arrived in this area.For many years,Bulgarians considered themselfs as Tatars.My question is;who are you,realy.The Greek notion of the [...]

Read the full comment Macedonians are Greek is absurd as well.Lets go to 338 BC and see what has happened.The Macedonians went to war againts the City States,and as evidance the battle of Chaeronea.Philip II of Macedonia won that battle,and as of the result,the Hellenic history stoped to exist.The epitaph composed by Demosthenes for the common grave of the fallen Hellens reads as follows;"Time whose oercing eye records all human action,Bear word to mankind what fate was suffered, how striving to safeguard the holy soil of Hellas upon Boeotias plains ea did."The distinction between Hellens and Macedonians is explicit;"how striving to safeguard the holy soil of Hellas-we died."They were striving to safeguard the holy soil of Hellas from the attack of the Macedonians.Ancient Macedonians were not Hellens,they did not consider themselves to be Hellens nore were they so considered by the ancient Hellens.We also need to refresh our memories about Isocrates letter to Philip where he Isocrates makes clear that;"Philips ancestors understood that Hellens cannot submit to the rule of a monarch,while non Hellens actually cannot live without such a regime".People of non-kindred race-was the term used by Isocrates to describe the Macedonias.Obviously,and with added emphasis, he is hihglighting the distinction between the Macedonians and the Hellens. As to Alexander argument the Greeks are making;Durring the Philotas trial,Alexander asked Philotas in what language will he address the people.Alexander accused Philotas of not learning his own native Macedonian language.Does this not tell you the difference between native and forighn languages?.Coming forward to more recent centuries;The PM of Greece,in 1903 for the interview with the "New York Times"the Greek PM Ralis using insolent chetoric to boast about how Greece helped Turkey to suffocate the Ilinden Uprising.The response is simple,he said.Before us we have a pack of wolves whish attacked Macedonia.To destroy them not only will we join forces with Turkey but we are prepaired to do anything to protect our interests.We are not prepaired o take into consideration those who resist out cooperation with Turkey for commercial reasons,but we will follow the course of our arranged politics,concluded Greek PM Ralis.In 1995 former PM Mitsotakis sad "I have no problem with recognising the name Macedonia,my problem is the recognition of the Macedonian minority in Greece."To the Greek and Bulgarian sceptics,Macedonia is different ethnos than that of yours.We are seperate ethnicity for centuries,stop the fabrication and get on with your own history.Stop stealing that is not yours.

Taurus.
thanks for supporting my view
"Northern Macedonia".
As far as i can recall the three
northrn province or Greece are Epirus,Macedonia,and western Thrace
each is subdived into depatements.
but in groups they were always named as above
what eacttly the pre 1989 map you have does show i'd be glad to know.

to "Macedonia always Greek" - no it wasn't from Skopje - the information came from the BBC (and can also be confirmed from pre-1989 maps of Greece by Michelin and GeoCentre that I have in my personal possession.)

Yes Aries but Delchev doesn't have any relatives in Fyrom and long before Fyrom decided to call a little town (its very little i've drank coffee there) Bulgaria had the illustrious town of Goce Delchev. There are still relatives of delchev in Kilkis, Greece though they denounce Fyromian hardliners and keep their Bulgarian roots.

Goce Delchev's grand-nephews and nieces live in Sandanski and Nevrokop, Bulgaria and Kilkis Greece. They would never live in Fyrom peter you are again full of something but not truth LOL.
Delchev's bones are crying in FYROM sent there because of Tito's and Stalins hold on Dimitrov otherwise Delchev would have stayed buried with his countrymen
not with Yugoslav traitors.

Makedonas you are right in 2013 the Makedones in Greece will celebrate the liberation of Makedonia from the ottomans. It will be a good party. I think the Fyromians will be crying [...]

Read the full comment over the border seeing how again they are without a real identity. They can only blame Tito who created all of the Fyromians.

Soon they will also get a new identity the Fyromian church has decided to call itself the orthodox church of Fyromians until GOd steers them in the rght direction. Sad place, sad country, sad peoples, sad life, sad history, sad leaders, but they are happy liars, happy cheats, happy theives of history, happy swindlers, happy on their own peoples misery, happy to kick their peoples down, this my friends is how Fyromians are.

Fyrom comes from from but from doen't come from Fyrom!

Whether some strong headed like it or not Gotse Delchev is venerated by both Bulgarians an Fyromians
born in Kilkis (then Kukush Ottoman empire)
He was educated in a Bulgarian high
school in THesaloniki in the vincinity of 1890 There is a town
in Pirin Nacedonia (Bulgaria)
named after him as well in Northern
Macedonia(Fyrom) named Delcevo.

Peter my good man you may want to be Napoleon but certainily you are
not same story stands for the "relativea" of Delchev.
[...]

Read the full comment

As for Goce Delcev being bulgarian, go tell his relatives that live in Macedonia that he is bulgarian and see what they say to you.

2013 will be big celebrations in Greece of the 100 years of Macedonian liberation from ottomans. It will be a good celebration. Maybe the Yugoslavs of Fyrom wont be happy but the Makedones of Greece will LOL

The Yugoslavs of Fyrom were always Bulgarians before Tito. Peter in his Slavs want all of us to think he is a Makedonas but this can never be. Slavs are Slavs and Makedones are Greeks FULL STOP! And Sam your history is like peters full of lies. All you Fyromians are big Liars at least the world knows that now.

@Taurus, Macedonia has always been the name of the northern province of Greece, I don't know where you get this information about Greece renaming the north as Macedonia in 1988, maybe its from FYROMs bullcrap propaganda... FYROM should rename its country as "Western Bulgaria" and never use the name Macedonia, since there origin is Bulgarian and they do still speak Bulgarian. The Ancient Macedonians have alway claimed to be Greek, and they even spoke Greek. Maybe people should do some research before commenting....

Well, having said before that I think Aries is right in the current climate to advocate the "geographical ascription" (i.e. Northern Macedonia for fYRoM etc), there is something to be said for the Northern Irish approach as in the song "The Orange And The Green": "and me being strictly neutral I bashed everyone in sight" ! Right, here it comes:

GREECE was opportunistic, to put it mildly, in renaming its northern provice as "Macedonia" back in 1988 just before Jugoslavia broke up. Previously the name had not been permitted in Greece, let alone used. And the [...]

Read the full comment Greek attempts to block Northern Macedonia's EU accession efforts in Brussels are widely perceived in other EU member-states as simply childish (or Balkan - is there a difference ?)

NORTHERN MACEDONIA was equally stupid to (a) issue those banknotes with the White Tower of Salonika upon them, (b) name Skopje's airport after Alexander the Great, and (c) indulge in various other minor provovative activities to provoke the thin-skinned Greeks.

So, there we have it. I am sure that I have upset everybody by now and that a torrent of abuse will descend on my head.

But equally, I am fairly sure on this occasion I am probably right.

yes the greeks are scared of 2013, why do you think they want us to change our name, if there is no country named macedonia and they open the treaty who are they going to give the land back to when there is no country in the world named macedonia, the name will never change.

Greece claims that Macedon or Macedonia, as well as Alexander of Macedonia are its own. This is a false claim and it is time someone confirms this. The Antique Greeks considered Macedonia a half-civilized region, representing a source of raw materials and nothing more. Macedonia's rise in the time of Phillip and his son Alexander was greeted with opposition, resulting in a defeat of several cities. Phillip and Alexander were considered tyrants who destroy Greeks' freedom. The claims of modern Greeks that the antique kingdom of Macedon was their own ignores a huge historic fact

To Kassandros
my point is that in 1912-1915 the first Balkan war and the seconded Balkan war greece and bulgaria split macedonia into 3 parts greece took 51% of macedonian land and bulgaria took 36% and both countries to this day claim macedonia is theirs..well sorry to break it to you mate but macedonia belongs to the macedonians..todays Republic of Macedonia is the only part that is free and hasnt been occupied and it has every right to be called the Republic of Macedonia,,who the hell gave greece and bulgaria the right to split macedonia up..cut it with [...]

Read the full comment your bullshit all the islands that are currently under greece belonged to the turks u are just full of it..and now greece is scared cause 2013 isnt far and the Treaty of Bucharest will be opened..greece is scared because if they recongize Macedonia they will have the right to take back their land.

You greeks are exactly like the british they did the same thing to the aborigines well at least the macedonians have some land left it doesnt come to any surpise ur such good allies.

you should be ashmed of yourselves

Greeks should not be refered as Greeks in Greece there are no greeks they are brainwshed Albanians,slavs,Turks, Macedonian, Vlach and Gipsies.And becuase Macedonians spoke greek those days and now you say Macedonians are greek and now that you speak English how did you become British tell us so we can do the same.
And to date there are no Historical writen enidence were the slavs came from, some say from these mountains some say from Ukrain its all speculations. So if you do not know were the slavs came from how can you say they arrived in Europe [...]

Read the full comment one thousand years ago. Only racist use the word slavs for their own interest and who wants to be greek anyway I am Macedonian and what you are going to do about it.
In acient times the Arabs refered to the so called greeks as "you greeks act like chldren" and you still do act like children think befor you speak and don't speak with your r..r.

Macedonia for the Real Makedones not the Yugoslav Titoists of FYROM. Peter is like a one-eyed Tito only looking at how to take over Greece. I know I'll call all these Bulgarians in FYROM Macedonians then they will be like the Greek Makedones. Pull the other one Peter you are too full of something but not history.
We celebrate 1912 every year for the last 98 years for the liberation of Macedonia for the Makedones and Bulgarians who live there.

Peter in 1912-13 is when our Makedonia was liberated from the ottomans. You were not born then. Only after Tito you became a Yugoslav and before you parents are Bulgarians like all todays Fyromians.
I agree with you Fyromian Peter full of something and it smells of something not nice.

Only for disoriented greeks and their stupid slaves:
Please read The Holly Bible: Acts of Holly Apostoles 16:9...!!!!
...and you will see the word MACEDONIA but notwere greece. ONLY MACEDONIA...AND WILL BE MACEDONIA !!!

Yes Peter you do have a point! You are still underdeveloped person who has to much Tito history. One day you Yugoslavs understand that you history and language is Bulgarian not Greek like Megas Alexandros. Kassandros is right too you people call every place in Makedonia with Bulgarians names like Solun not in Makedonian like Thessalonike. Maybe you bible is written by you Yugoslav Dedo Tito and this why everybody no understand it like you Yugoslavs.
Ah Yes Peter is true that you are full of something that not smell good. Maybe this is you Yugoslav History! [...]

Read the full comment

hahaha.. lol. :) Peter, how old are you mate?
Yesterday a gypsy came in my neighborhood selling watermellons. Nobody bought even one. At the next neighborhood they bought some.
Means..according to your Titoik logic the guys in the next neighborhood.. are foreigners and non Greeks since the acted different in the same issue!!

oh my God.. what a waste of time..


ps. by the way.., “Thessaloniki” the name of a Macedonian Princess and sister of Alexander the Great … or “Solun” a Slavic name means nothing? [...]

Read the full comment
Thessaloniki or Solun.. bre "Macedonian"?
hahaha..lol :)

study some maps as well. bulgaria came into reality about 2000 years after macedonia appeared, no contest.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

delcev was a bulgarian, why would bulgaria give his remains back to macedonia if he was bulgarian. He fought for and independent macedonia not for macedonia to join bulgaria. Our first president said we are slavs thats why we put a bomb in his car. Greece gave him 5 million dollars to say that.

Kassandros see your greek we can not have a reasonable conversation because your an ignorant racist facist, i guess you haven't read the bible but you qoute from it, read chapter acts when st.paul enters macedonia and preaches christianity and then goes to greece and the greeks tell him to go away because they didn't like what he was preaching so he went back to macedonia where he was accepted, did you read that part i guess not. As for your vardaskian comments as i said your an ignorant fascist racist, macedonia was occupied by serbia and is by greece [...]

Read the full comment and bulgaria from 1912. in 1925-1949 the communist rulers of serbia who ruled and occupied macedonia changed the name to vardaska because they wanted to start a new country called yugoslavia and wipe out all the history of the people they rule so they can live as one but follow what serbia says. The subdivisions of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia (initially known as the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes) existed successively in three different forms. From 1918 to 1922, the kingdom maintained the pre-World War I subdivisions of Yugoslavia's predecessor states. In 1922, the state was divided into 33 oblasts or provinces and, in 1929, a new system of nine banovinas was implemented. Not even serbia croatia or slovenia were called by there names anymore. The communists wanted to start fresh, It only lasted over a decade as the people weren't happy. Go tell a slovenian that there dravians or a croatian a savanian and watch yourself get punched in the face. These bonivina's were made up by invaders SERBIA. Just like greece called macedonia from 1912-1988 nothern greece and the macedonian part in bulgaria is called Blagoevgrad. See in 1988 greece started there porpaganda machine and changed the name of nothern greece to the province of macedonia. Greece knew yugoslavia was falling apart and that serbia could not hold onto macedonia any longer and within 2 years macedonia gained its independence from serbian rule. You already know this Kassandros, you know the truth but as i said you an ignorant fascist racist greek. Greeks never tell the truth to people, they just lie and steal. I just stated real facts that there is proff and truth too so you can keep living a lie you christian albanian turk.

They are good examples Delchev! Maybe Peter can learn the non-Tito history of him Fyroms. Peter is child of Tito era Yugoslavs who today think he is not Yugoslav but Fyromian.

FYROM nationalists are communist propaganda brainwashed ethnic Bulgarians. I feel sorry for their poor children because their current ELECTED government are nutty nationalist extremists that constantly promote historical propaganda.

'We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.'
(FYROM'S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka to US government January 22 1999)

'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.'(FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen, February 24 1999) [...]

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"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Kiro Gligorov, FYROM's first President to Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992)


"The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made.
(Denko Maleski, former Minister of foreign affairs, Utrinski Vesnik, October 16, 2006)

Peter, in the civilized world that you have just entered as a new nation you have to learn the word "conversation".
In conversation you state something, I answer on that. Then I ask you answer. That is how it takes place a conversation.
WHATEVER ELSE IS JUST COMMOUNIST STYLE PROPAGANDA.

Now, you said about Apostle Paul and bible.. I said "Yes, that is why there is the “Letter to Thessalonikians” from Apostle Paul! in perfect Greek! .. That was Macedonia for Apostle Paul.
.. unless of course you try to [...]

Read the full comment convince us that its normal to preach Christianity to Japanese in perfect… English!

NO STATEMENT FROM YOU ON THIS!


You said “The people of Macedonia identified as Macedonians for centuries”
..and I answered “Centuries” can not be described 1940 and afterwards. Before that they were identified as Vardarskans, even before as Bulgarians (Krste Misirkov) and even before as Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.
Centuries are many hundrends of years.. not 70!

NO STATEMENT FROM YOU ON THIS AGAIN!


Finally I asked just one question;

“Thessaloniki” the name of a Macedonian Princess and sister of Alexander the Great … or “Solun” a Slavic name means nothing?
Show me how perfect "Macedonian" you speak...


and.. AGAIN NO ANSWER FROM YOU!.. just accusations on personal level to me.

My friend, adjust yourself in European standards and forget your Titoic past. Try to be civilized and have a civilized conversation that includes ANSWERS!

3 statements/questions..2 of them started from you. Just answer them. Tito didnt gave you the skills to answer questions?

Fyrom is land of Bulgarians, Greece is land of Megas Alexandros people, and Peter is FULL of something that does not smell good. Maybe he can try learn real history from Tito! His Dedo and creator of his People.

Peter,
No one is arguing that the land you live on is called Macedonia.
If only countries were made of land alone! The people in that land are Albanians and Bulgars and countries are made of people.

This is why we don't call Turkey "Byzantium", or "Rome" even though thats the land they live on.
They are Turks so we call the country Turkey.
And they are intelligent enough to accept that;)

Long live the Great Macedonians,our time will come again!

the land we live on is called macedonia, always have always will be.

Kassandros your full of sh....t.
Sam asked me
"i just want you to answer me this question?
Did greece take 51% of Macedonian land in 1912?????"

I will answer to you Sam. Greece, starting the formation of the state of Greece with the revolution against Ottoman Empire took: 100% of Attica, 100% of Peloponesese, 95% of Aegean islands, 50% of Thrace and 52% of Macedonia.

I can not see your point. Greece took BACK all the places where Greek population was the majority. You cannot take [...]

Read the full comment a place and start a revolution if the local population is not the majority!
Revolution my a.......s. Greece was formed in 1821 by the superpowers england france etc and installed king otto as there king a german king. Macedonians were the majority in macedonia not greeks, you basically just stated that its okay for albanians to take kosovo. So it took almost 100 years 1821-1912 for greece to start a revolution in macedonia because of population, was there 2 million macedonians and 2 millions greeks waited for one more greek to have a kid and said lets invade now. Funnily enough in the first balkan war bulgaria won 94% and greece and serbia won 3% each but then bulgaria also wanted that 6 percent and lost 88% and now have 6%. Kassandros your aguement has no basis. Your just and ignorant greek who knows the truth. You don't want to lose macedonia so you try your best to lie to people, some advice read the bible.

ask greece to have a census, bet you there scared to, afraid what it might show.

if macedonia joins the eu the country is finished, things will go up 3 times as much and not 1 person from neighbouring countries will go there to shop like they do now. The will become like greece, broke and a joke. The macedonian government is good on one hand fighting for macedonia's name but on the other there ba...rds because they do not help the people or fix the country. I'm all for building statue's but a lot of other things are being neglected which should be fixed as well. Bulgaria was ruled by asians till the slavs came [...]

Read the full comment in.Read the bible, macedonia and greece are mentioned in the bible not bulgaria. At the end of the day all these arguements come down to the land and nothing else. Nothing to do with religion or whatever just land so thats why there's propaganda by ignorant fascists like bulgarians and greeks.If macedonia was still under ottoman turk rule or independent rule with 100% of its land you would not even see these internet posts. Greece don't want to lose there occupied territory of macedonia they got in 1912 because of the agriculture it has. It makes money for them. Bulgaria don't want to lose there tiny share because the macedonia part they have is the nicest out of the rest of the s..thole they call bulgaria but , serbia had it but gave it back.As for albania they just want to own all of the balkans, they have no history,they were moved to the balkans by the turks from a country called albania in asia.

@ Taurus,
and yet 9 times out of 10 I can tell you who's Belgian and who's Dutch, just by walking in the room. Dutch are very distinct as ethnicity.

The typical Dutchman manages to combine brilliantly his tall stature with awkward disposition - not an easy feat for most of the rest of us, as height usually adds to a person's presence and authority.

Most Belgians have that look about them complete with the attitude of that kid in third grade that didn't get what he wanted, so now [...]

Read the full comment he will contradict or not talk at all...

The Macedonian case is different, because except being poorer than BG, they are essentially the same people.

Aries has the most practical and logical solution. Of course, this means that it will never happen, because logic has not ever prevailed in this argument. The arguments from both sides have become more ridiculous on the Macedonia name since I did a thesis on this 13 years ago.

(I can't resist this !) Valeri - if you drive north from Antwerp to Breda along the old main highway, you will see a sharp division between Belgium and the Netherlands at the border - the Dutch side is cleaner, brighter, and has a completely different ethos about window-blocking net curtains (obligatory in Belgium, frowned upon in Netherlands). And yet both communities speak the same language (more or less !), and both are Catholic by religion.

It's probably just local "culture" that makes the difference, not ethnicity, religion, or anything else.

Mike:
"Every ethnical definition is artificial and we should be over it"

Not at all..
Every political definition is artificial. The borders change - as in the case of Alsace - but the people's nationality doesn't. You can tell the Germans and the French in that area as well as in Switzerland - I just drove (in August) from Annecy to Liechtenstein, with other words through Switzerland - you can totally tell where the French and the German speakers live.
The French part is dirtier, there is more tagging (terrible [...]

Read the full comment actually), it just feels more Latin.
The German side is cleaner, more organized and busier.

Race and culture override political artificial borders any day...

Why not just accept them and move on. The Balkans are a crazy place to live in anyway.

I am from Fyrom, but fyrom is not from from!

Sam asked me
"i just want you to answer me this question?
Did greece take 51% of Macedonian land in 1912?????"

I will answer to you Sam. Greece, starting the formation of the state of Greece with the revolution against Ottoman Empire took: 100% of Attica, 100% of Peloponesese, 95% of Aegean islands, 50% of Thrace and 52% of Macedonia.

I can not see your point. Greece took BACK all the places where Greek population was the majority. You cannot take a place and start a revolution if [...]

Read the full comment the local population is not the majority!


You still dint answer my question:

“Thessaloniki” the name of a Macedonian Princess and sister of Alexander the Great … or “Solun” a Slavic name means nothing?
Show me how perfect "Macedonian" you speak...

Thats right Greg let the Macedonians in Greece, RoM, Bulgaria, and not to mention in the diaspora speak their own language, e.g. Greek, Bulgarian, Vlach, Arvanitika, and Turkish.
I travel every few weeks to Greece from Skopje uni. to meet with Greek and Bulgarian speaking Macedonian students. The agenda has always been about recognition of identity, language, and minority. While many nationalists and diasporic jingoists claim that there is only one so-called Macedonian Identity Greece has the only group of Macedonians who claim different heritages. The most common are the Greek backgrounded Macedonians, the Bulgarian backgrounded Macedonians (90% [...]

Read the full comment of the Slavic speaking Macedonians especially in Bitola, Ovrichani, Bouf, Kostur, Voden, etc.) and finally the nationalist brainwashed few (less than 3000 individuals out of 30K Slavic speaking Macedonians)who are lead by the Diasporic puppet Voskopoulos. One can wish themselves as an ethnic pure individual but in reality Macedonians are a toponymic identity made up of a mosaic of peoples who all have (or should have) equal rights to the appellation.
Macedonia was never a nation-state before 1991 and has never been recognised as a having a non-Slavic history, and non-Slavic language. Remember in Macedonia we are Macedonians in the rest of the world we are still rightfully considered Slavs and there should not be anything wrong with that unless you believe in the fanciful diasporic fairy tales of belonging to AL.Veliki and his Greek speaking tribe.

Wake up you silly greeks you have lost the argument. No one believes your lies anymore. let the macedonians in todays northern greece speak their own language
and give them minority rights like they have in every civilised country.

THe baking makes the difference

if you divide an apple pie into four pieces and call them Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, and Albania is it still an apple pie?

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

I fully agree with Aries here - for long "Macedonia" has just been a geographical ascription, as he says - so let "Northern Macedonia" describe the current FYROM, "southern Macedonia" describe the current Greek province of that name , and "eastern Macedonia" whatever remains in Bulgaria.

Sounds fair to me. But doubtless not in Athens or in Skopje.....where further difficulties will be raised.

Watch here for the next installment (not from me and Aries, who on this one fully agree !)

I'll try to be brief and more intelligable this time
There was no such thing as a Macedonian State after the Roman conquest whch divided the ancient
Hellenic Macedonia into Macedonia
Primaa and Sallutaris.
Macedonia was hence considered a
geographical entity since it became the dwelling place of many Peoples,Turks,Bulgarians,Serbs,Vlachs,Goranis and so on in a realm called Vardarska.
In 1944 Jossip Broz gave to Vardarska the Name Federal Socialist Republic
of Macedonia, Kolishevski with Horance Lunt created out of Bulgarian with some Serb toppings the New [...]

Read the full comment language for the newly born Socialist Republic
Macedonia is a geographical notion
which encompasses Greek Macedonia,Fyrom,and PIrin Macedonia

The proposed solution Northern Macedonia which has a geographical qualifier is a fair deal for both sides.

Well, I am afraid that Droutsas got it wrong - it IS a "bilateral pedantic dispute about historical symbols", and the other UN member-nations will regard it as such, as four out of five member-nations of the UN Security Council (the fifth being France, and its reluctance to join the other four is because Greece owes it money for defence systems)

Anyway, the whole thing is 'subjudice' as the UN-sponsored International Court of Justice has the case in hand - Macedonia has submitted its case, and the Greek case is still awaited; once this arrives (Athens [...]

Read the full comment is being a bit slow about it for some reason), the Court verdict will be pronounced early in 2011.

I am greek... honestly guys who really cares from both sides...

Nationallity is formed to segregate people and so is religion.

We are all not pure we may have some ties with the ancients of the land but bottom line each person is indvidual to this world.

We are all people who are 1! so get off your high horses and who cares what nationality you are if a chinese person wants to call himself greek who really cares it does not change anything get over it there [...]

Read the full comment a much bigger problems in this world

A reply to Valeris comment of Sept.29th.Valeri,I cannot believe what you commented.First you say the Macedonians are Bulgarian,than on your next comment you are saying that the Macedonians are of Hellenic identity.It is an absurd comment to say the least.It shows,the Bulgarians cannot comprehand the truth,and as of the result,they dont think straight as a result,they blunder with their own addmisions.How can people be identified belonging to two (2)different identities?.Valeri,you are not following following your ministers foot steps who claims Macedonians are Bulgarians.Do I sence a discent among the Bulgarian public?.

Strange, but I find your report on this issue neither informative nor well balanced. While you have presented Greece's position and/or her alleged objections, you have failed not only to elaborate Macedonia's side but even to mention her objections to the name change. More than 70% of your article deals with what Greece says and her reasons for blocking Macedonia's EU and NATO progress. But let me give you the real reasoning behind this outrageous Greek demand: It is not about the name "Macedonia" but about the existence of the Macedonian people that bothers Greece. It is the Macedonian identity, [...]

Read the full comment and the Macedonian language that ruffles the feathers of this Former Turkish colony, the welfare state of Europe. I am sick and tired of the hypocrisy practiced by the EU countries and the silence of many intellectuals throughout the world.

As part of its newly constructed national narrative, FYROM has opted to trace its historical roots to classical antiquity, underrating the predominantly Slavonic cultural heritage of the majority of its population, which is shared with its Bulgarian brethren. this all-encompassing doctrine of ‘Makedonism’ is “encroaching upon an illustrious past, which had been recorded in the annals of Hellenic heritage, almost a millennium prior to the arrival of Slavic tribes in the region” . There was no Slavic presence in Macedonia until nearly 1,000 years after the time of Alexander the Great).
Aside from the grandiose ideations traceable to [...]

Read the full comment antiquity, there is yet another darker side to the ethnocentric national narrative of ‘Makedonism’. Central to the problem at hand is the MORBID
OBSESSION with race, DNA, HLA haplotypes, and the likes.
such obsessive preoccupation with national identity in the 21st century, coupled with misrepresentation of history,and revisionism only harms the citizens of FYROM.
The Hellenic identity of ancient Macedonia is indisputable; it is supported by historical, archeological, and linguistic evidence. For the socio-political and historical facts, the most authoritative source is the classic work of the leading scholar on the history of ancient Macedonia, the late Prof. Nicholas Hammond’s book, The Macedonian State, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1989. As regards the language, by 5th century B.C. Attic Greek was standardized as the language of Ancient Macedonia (Makedon). For instance, of the 1,044 inscriptions included in the fascicle Inscriptiones Thessalonicae et Viciniae one of the most painstaking and complex volumes of the Berlin corpus, encompassing all the inscriptions of ancient Thessaloniki from the 3rd century B.C. to the 7th or 8th century A.D.most are Greek, while a few are Latin.
What about the subversive actions of Makedonski autonomist bandsmen of NOF endangering the territorial integrity of Greek Macedonia. By playing the Egejski card half a century later, in the midst of negotiations over the thorny ‘name issue’, Skopje has always shown an increasingly intransigent and confrontational -rather than constructive- approach.
To mention Sashs's first post
<<As long as Gruevski's nationalistic rhetoric dominates our country's political platform a compromise is as likely as Al. Veliki coming back to life!
>>

@Valeri
Nice examples. So Germany is defined as a nation, because people look alike? What about Alsac, once German and now French? What about german-speaking Swiss? Every ethnical definition is artificial and we should be over it. If it's just a disput about the lable "macedonia", fine, let's see what people call this country in 20 years. But some people here are sill arguing about different ethnic groups...

To Kassandros

i just want you to answer me this question?

Did greece take 51% of Macedonian land in 1912?????

John from Australia, says “Greeks are the biggest bullies..”

John do you have any idea what “bullies” means? I think Greece is the only country in Balkans that does not demand even 1 cm of your land. There are not even soldiers to the borders of FYROM.. What are you talking about?!

Also you say, “Greece’s false claiming Macedonia history”

You problem is that is not only the Greeks who claim that. All educated international community claims that. It will be good for you to read the "Letter [...]

Read the full comment to Obama" written in 2009 by 200 famous Classical Scholars around the world. Just Google it.



Peter, says “The people of Macedonia identified as Macedonians for centuries”

Come on Peter, try better. “Centuries” can not be described 1940 and afterwards. Before that they were identified as Vardarskans, even before as Bulgarians (Krste Misirkov) and even before as Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes.
Centuries are many hundrends of years.. not 70!

Also you say “Apostle Paul went to Macedonia and preached Christianity”

Yes, that is why there is the “Letter to Thessalonikians”! in perfect Greek! .. That was Macedonia for Apostle Paul.
.. unless of course you try to convince us that its normal to preach Christianity to Japanese in perfect… English!


Guys, to finalize that joke, “Thessaloniki” the name of a Macedonian Princess and sister of Alexander the Great … or “Solun” a Slavic name means nothing?

Come on Peter.. show me how much "Macedonian" you’re for.. centuries. Speak to me real Macedonian. “Thessaloniki” or “Solun” ?

Macedonia has already been recognized by a majority of other countries around the world, including the USA. Theres not going to be any chance just to join the EU, and to be honest id prefer if we didnt join the EU , cant seen anything good happening if we did.

One can not go beyond the historical narrative written in the in the late 19th century by the Bulgarian intellectuals like Mirsikov, Gruev, Delchev, etc. Those of you who push todays (RoM)Macedonian identity before then are only misinformed individuals whose personal agendas are filled with nationalistic rhetorics. Just as my friend Mirsikov wrote below the facts have never changed only the politicians.
Todays Macedonians are identified by Bulgarians, Greeks, Albanians, Turks, Roma, Vlachs and yes those of you (especially in the diaspora) who consider yourselves antiquisationists but are considered by everyone else as Slavo-Macedonians. It is time to [...]

Read the full comment step up to the thr truth of our identity and open the natioanl archives locked under governmental fears of opening a can of worms like the current lustration law debacle which has turned skopje upside down.
Just as they (our government) have tried to keep events that happened in our recent Yugoslav past secret so to is our identity portrayed for domestic consumption in the hope that the international community will rally behind the nationalists.
Compromise can only take place if Al.Veliki comes back to life!

Just some quotes to show the current FYROM government's historical propaganda has put the poor people in a bizarre alternate reality where they deny their own ethnic Bulgarian heritage.

Krste Misirkov

"We are Bulgarians, more Bulgarians than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria themselves."[...]'And, anyway, what sort of new Macedonian nation can this be when we and our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians?"

"Who is against a greater Bulgaria is against Slavism"

"Macedonians means only Macedonian Bulgarians"

[...]

Read the full comment “Some will ask why I speak of breaking away from the Bulgarians when in the past we have even called ourselves Bulgarians ”

“The only Macedonian Slavs who played a leading part in the Uprising were those who called themselves Bulgarians.”

“Is it even possible now to bring about the national unification of the Macedonians when in Macedonia we have several nationalities and not just one, and when there is no separate Macedonian Slav nation?”

“Come what may, our separation from the Bulgarians…”


“We did indeed call ourselves “Bulgarians” and “Christians” in the national sense”


“The first objection — that a Macedonian Slav nationality has never existed — may be very simply answered as follows: what has not existed in the past may still be brought into existence later, provided that the appropriate historical circumstances arise.”

“why is it that they cannot and will not agree that from this larger ethnographic unit, which everybody including themselves describes as the Bulgarian nation, two smaller units might be formed: a Bulgarian and a Macedonian one?”



“No matter whether we call ourselves Bulgarians or Macedonians we shall always feel as a nationality with a Bulgarian national consciousness,”

“We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian. The Serbian not only want to colonize Macedonia with Serbs from other part of Yugoslavia, but they wish to kill our Bulgarian consciousness.

“The Ilinden Uprising of 1903 had a pronounced effect on me and caused me to make some mistakes which completely isolated me from the Bulgarian cause in Macedonia. With great respect I was forced to temporarily renounce completely working for the realization of the Bulgarian national ideals[...] “The same Mr Zanetov gave me the idea to appeal to you and ask for a lecturing position at the Bulgarian Male Gymnasium in Salonika. I agreed with satisfaction to Mr Zanetov’s proposal, since in this way I would receive the opportunity, anew, and according to my ability to serve the Bulgarian national interest and ideals”

"You could be victors over Bulgaria and impose on it all sorts of treaties but this cannot change our conviction, our consciousness that we are not Serbians, that up till now we have called ourselves Bulgarians and this is what we are today and this is what we want to be called in the future.”

“If the question of racial similarity and difference between Bulgarians and Macedonians comes to be resolved on the basis of the national name, language and history, there is no doubt that we should resolve it as a Greek priest did in 1804; author of a four-language dictionary Greek, Bulgarian, Rumanian and Albanian and who regarded as Bulgarian the Western Macedonian dialect. Therefore when in Macedonia and Bulgaria there was no mention of the Bulgarian Exarchate, the Greeks, obviously well acquainted with the Balkan nationalities, do not make any distinction between a Bulgarian, a Macedonian and a Macedonian Slav. We the Macedonians, cannot, and have no reason to ignore this and similar facts, which can be quoted by the hundreds. We cannot ignore them because to do so means to distort our history, to hide the truth and to deceive ourselves.”

"Please, show me an ethnic German! What defines him?"

I had a German friend in US and every time he saw German tourists he blushed with embarrassment, but he recognized them from a mile.
There are about 25 faces in France and maybe 23 in Germany and almost everyone seems to be some combination of them. I can spot a Frenchman from across the restaurant anywhere in the World.
How about a Jew?
I also had a Jewish friend in the US and every time we sat at a business [...]

Read the full comment meeting we used a sign language technic between us to place bets on who's Jewish in the group - for fun.
Of course there is ethnic nationalities. Only an American would declare the end of nations - is this some sort of justifying your own concept of nationhood?

" ... you cannot stop them. Starbucks, on the other side can stop you because their name is registered, and there are international tribunals for such disputes… "

Yes you can apparently, if you have the influence, and this is exactly what this is - an international dispute - the forum varies.

even though my kingdom was headquartered in Ohrid, I considered myself King of the Bulgarians and that's what those Byzantines referred to me as also. So in terms of national continuity, Ohrid and the now called republic of macedonia is mostly populated by slav speaking people who are more akin to Bulgarians than any other tribe in the area. So call a spade a spade. If Macedonia joined Bulgaria it would be a bigger and better balkan country better positioned to deal with it's avaricious neighbors.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

I am surprised for so many Bulgarians and Greeks in the 21st century cant understand the differance between themselfs and the Macedonians.I understand,if you read what the Bulgarian minister on diaspora says on the differance between Macedonians and Bulgarians,must be educated in the darkness as he is.Understand,he is a historian by Bulgarian standards,not by international normes.When you read Greeces oppinion on Macedonia and Macedonians,Greece is parallel to Dimitrov.Why an educated historian as Dimitrov,and FM.Droutsas claim same people are one and the same with their thinking?How can two totally different ethicities-Greece and Bulgaria claim these same Macedonian people are one of [...]

Read the full comment them?,does it make any sence?.How uneducated have you have to be to claim such absurd notion?.Macedonians are different than both of these identities.It has been proven by DNA,all three nationalities are different from each other.All three are from different ancestries.I venture to say;Macedonians are the oldest people in the Balkans.They are the first to accept Christianity in Europe.Read the Bible if you are a child of God.Reality and politics are two different things,dont mix the two together.Greeces claims have been proven wrong by the ancient Hellens,who have no connection to present"Greeks".To understand the differance,you have to read what Alexander said to Philotas,what Isovrates write to Philip,and wha Demosthenes wrote in 338 BC about the Chaeronea battle between the Hellens and Macedonians.These anti-macedonian commentators cannot seperate history from politics,this is the biggest problem from being more pragmatic in historical truth.The Macedonian history has been abused and even fabricated it by both of our neighbors.I hope,both our neighbors will come to terms that,Macedonians are not what they claim,but,a people with their ethnicity,language and own culture.

go to the macedonian - greek border and see the macedonian owned farms they split in two. Its funny we drove from bitola to solun and the people we met only spoke macedonian and people saw our car and were coming up to us to speak macedonian, they felt liberated and the faces lit up when they saw us because the scum greek government won't let the speak macedonian, oppressed on there own occupied homeland.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

someone speaking the truth who isn't macedonian or greek, greeks know this already but are ignorant racists, ask greece to have a census, the never have.The name dispute is unnecessary and unfounded, since Macedonia was called the same in the time of former Yugoslavia and this did not cause any problems then, says former U.S. Secretary of State, Lawrence Eagleburger.

"The country that is now named Macedonia was called the same during its existence as a republic within the former Yugoslavia. Did this fact lead to serious problems between Greece and Yugoslavia or between Greece and [...]

Read the full comment the Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia? There were misunderstandings now and then, but they never reached a point when they would pose a threat to peace in the region. Is there anything more immature and more foolish than 'blackmailing' a nation by denying its membership in international organizations, which goal is to preserve the peace and protect their members from aggression of non-members", says Eagleburger in an interview with NTV station.

Pertaining to Greek accusations that Macedonia is creating 'antiquisation', Eagleburger stresses it has no right to make the antique Macedonian history its own.

"Greece claims that Macedon or Macedonia, as well as Alexander of Macedonia are its own. This is a false claim and it is time someone confirms this. The Antique Greeks considered Macedonia a half-civilized region, representing a source of raw materials and nothing more. Macedonia's rise in the time of Phillip and his son Alexander was greeted with opposition, resulting in a defeat of several cities. Phillip and Alexander were considered tyrants who destroy Greeks' freedom. The claims of modern Greeks that the antique kingdom of Macedon was their own ignores a huge historic fact", adds Eagleburger.

Due to these facts, he cannot accept the validity of Greece's request for ownership of name Macedonia.

"Antique Greeks had never been eager in claiming Macedonia was theirs and they never accepted either Phillip or Alexander as their own legitimate rulers. The Greek claim about Macedonia is based on historically incorrect information and are therefore not fact-based", says the former U.S. Secretary of State.

Eagleburger has sympathies for the Macedonian people, although he realizes it is not wise for a foreigner to interfere with internal affairs of two states.

"However, my excitement from the strength of character that the Macedonian people has demonstrated in the course of this debate justifies the fact of my taking sides", underlines Lawrence Eagleburger in the NTV interview.

greeks are a mixture of macedonian, turkish, albanian, roma and vlach, there is no pure greeks.

read the bible, its says st.paul went to macedonia and preached christianity the first country in europe to accept chistianity then it mentions he went southwards to greece to preach, in athens they disliked what he was preaching so he went back to macedonia where he was accepted, read the chapter acts in the bible its there, mentioned as 2 seperate countries and no bulgaria, serbia or albania mentioned. If macedonia was greece the bible would say he was in greece and went from macedonia then south to athens not he went to macedonia then southward to greece.

@Valeri
Please, show me an ethnic German! What defines him? It can neither be language, nor religion, not even beer, as there is too much diversity. A nation is a nation, because people define it as such. So, if they want to refer to themselves as “Romans” (as did the Germans for centuries), or as Gauls (as do some Frenchmen), you cannot stop them. Starbucks, on the other side can stop you because their name is registered, and there are international tribunals for such disputes…

Not really... but he's one of the few "Macedonians" with the courage to speak the truth of FYROM's Bulgarian past. (rather than the ridculous historical falsifications promoted by their current government)

"To everyone of us it is clear that this entire thesis, this entire thesis for ethnogenesis from Macedonians, it isn't so. Ancient Macedonians until today is founded on a series of mystifications and semi-historical truths which are emitted from Republic of Macedonia and that by using and abusing the media.[...] "Why do Skopjans not ask how much Dardanian blood there is in them[..] how much [...]

Read the full comment Thracian blood there is in them[...] how much Illyrian blood there is in them[...]how much Paeonian blood there is in them.[...]I do not see anyone of us get into a fight over the amount of Paeonian blood in us, or God forbid, Dardinian one?[...]Ancient Macedonia does not match with today's Macedonia at all.[...]Ancient Macedonia, we must clarify it once, is literally in entirety in today's Greece.[...] If we are looking at ethnogenesis then we should open at another place. Therefore we should discuss how much we are Paeoneans. " (A1 TV June 2009)

The FYROM government descriminates against ethnic Bulgarian (as it breaks their state promoted myths)

It assimilated ethnic Bulgarians into "ethnic Macedonians" (by force and state propaganda) under Tito communists for decades. If the trend continues, Bulgaria is literally under threat of cultural genocide.

"Macedonians means only Macedonian Bulgarians" - Krste Misirkov

Hate to catch you in this Hiram, but Lidia isn't related to you... your roots my friend, unless you are Albanian, are from the Vulgar river;)

Accept it. It won't kill you, although I see how important it is for you not to be a "mongol"... ;)))

Mike:
"This is Europe! If a group of people consider themselves as nation, they can do so! There are no "ethnic" Germans, Frenchmen, Englishmen, Swiss... welcome in a modern world!"

You are confused. No ethnic Germans? This is America my friend, not Europe. In Europe there are ethnic Germans. Don't be silly....
In the US any one can call themselves "a nation"
"Nation of Islam", "Queer Nation" "Navaho Nation", Pepsi Nation... I can go on

Besides, who's telling any one that they shouldn't be a nation? [...]

Read the full comment
This is more of an "intellectual property dispute"... you can't go around use other people's names even in the US.
Try to name your coffee shop "Starbucks" and see what happens...

I hate to get caught up in this non-sence but must add this. What happened to the Macedonian people refered to in the old and new testament of the Bible. If read on a historical basis, the apostle Paul extensivelly travel through the balkans. Lidia was a Macedonian woman. The first to be converted in the balkans. St. Stephan was a Greek. So what happened to them Macedonian. Where they Greek. If not Lidia would have been a woman from Bulgaria.
Bulgaria didn't exist at the time. Bulgarian roots are east of the Vulgar river. Macedonians refered to [...]

Read the full comment these people as Vulgars aka Bulgars. If modern Bulgaria recognizes the Macedonian people, what happens is the Bulgars will be downgraded to a non-European asia-minor indeagous people. With no Christian heritage and a language foreign to Slavs and Latins. More like mongol.

Greece can keep trying to eradicate everything Macedonian like it has been doing for the past 80 years but it will not succeed.

Genocide is no longer a tool in the 21st century, Greece has to eventually grow up and accept the Macedonian reality.

It will pay (with money) for everything it has done to the Macedonian people.

In the extensive research I have done on the subject I would greatly apprieciate two answers. But, before that I must add what happened to freedom of expression. It seems that everyone in the balkans is BRAINWASHED. First of all, if the Macedonian people are of Bulgarian ancestory, why hasen't the Bulgarian Government ever refered to the Slav (Macedonian) in Greece as their own. One could easily travel from Macedonia to Thesoloniki in Greece and find thousand of people that can speak Slavo-Macedonian. This is very well know and documented and untill recently outlawed by the Greek government. Second, if [...]

Read the full comment Serbs and Croats speak Serbo-Croation, how is it that the Macedonian language must be Bulgarian only!!! That doesn't sound very fare now does it.

forget about that "ethnic" bull sh...!
This is Europe! If a group of people consider themselves as nation, they can do so! There are no "ethnic" Germans, Frenchmen, Englishmen, Swiss... welcome in a modern world!

Today's Macedonians are Bulgarians and Albanians - that't it. The language is Bulgarian and Albanian. So are the people. The Macedonians were Hellenic. That's a fact.
The name is ancient but unrelated to the ethnic make up of the area today.

Twist it any way you like, it's still the same.
Face it, accept it, and love yourselves just the same.
You don't need other's ancient glory to respect the man in the mirror.
See, I am just an admitted Bulgarian, but I still love my kids;) [...]

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that hand is full of poison greeks ar sending

THE GREEKS NOW TO BE RE-INDENFIED THEMSELF AS PART ;OF ASIA MINOR[TURKISH] IT IS HISTORICALLY INAPPROPRITE TO PUT FALCE CLAIM ON TODAY MACEDONIA OR ANCIENT MACEDONIA VERY WRONG TO DO SO WORLD MUST STOP PLAYING WITH MACEDONIAN PEAOPLE AND MACEDONIA HISTORY;;FULL STOP;; MACEDONIA NEVER WAS NEVER BE GREEK;; BIG BULLIES; BY FORCE'''

Mr. Droutsas is missleading in his comment that,Greece is willing to find a solution to the name.Time and time again Greece is imposing the "erga omnes".This line cannot bring any solution to this problem.The people in the Republic of Macedonia are identified as Macedonians for centuries,so are the people in occupied Aegean Macedonia,Pirin Macedonia in Bulgaria.These people speak same language,have same customs,religion etc.Greece and Bulgaria are fabricating history when both claim the Macedonians are Greeks or Bulgarians.The Macedonian people are neither of them,but a seperate people.Greece itself recognised this in 1925 when they first printed the Abecedar for the Macedonian [...]

Read the full comment school children,only to be scraped due to Serbias and Bulgarias opposition to the Macedonian language.Today,Macedonia resembles as Vietnam,Korea,Georgia and pre 1991 Germany.One must remember,how Macedonia was partitioned by the Big Powers in 1913.In order to have peace in the Balkans,Greece and Bulgaria must accept the fact that there are Macedonians within their bordes since 1913.They must recognise equaly their ethnicity and their rights as citizens of these states.In both these states there are Macedonian organisations who are demanding their rights to be respected as equals with the rest of the society.I must say one thing,Greeces aim is to eliminate the Macedonians from the existance,not to protect its large Macedonian population.If Greece realy wants to protect the name Macedonia,first they must recognise the indigenouse Macedonians,give them the same rights as all citizens of the state,same applies to Bulgaria.The imposition of name negotiations by the UN is contrary to the Charter of Rights for all citizens.People have the right to identify themselfs as they feel,not by imposition by force.Greece is tangled in xenophobia that somehow Macedonia will take the occupied Aegean terrories by force.This notion is stricly Greek propaganda to re-inforce their claims that they so cleverly fabricated since 1913.They stolen our history by fabrication.Macedonia cannot,and will not committ suicide by accepting Greeces demands.

Just open up a history book and read it!! Don't yell and scream just relax sit down and read it,it doesn't have to be a Greek made book,try another nationality and 9 times out of 10 it will say Greek.if I was trying to prove someone wrong I would research it night and day but these people just don't do it!!....please no more threats no more nonsense just have serious read on the subject

Vasko:
" ... why is it that my great grand father refered to him self as being macedonian also about the people that lived with him as being macedonians .."

Because he is from Macedonia my friend.
My father referred to himself as a Sofianets all of his life, because he comes from Sofia. My Grandfather on my other side referred to himself as Thracian because from the Thracian Valley.
They are all Bulgarian though and you shouldn't go around all confused about that...

The so called " Macedonians" are as brain-washed as North Koreans are.

They live in a parallel universe ...

To all greeks that think they know everything about us macedonians why is it that my great grand father refered to him self as being macedonian also about the people that lived with him as being macedonians let me tell you he was older then tito and the books that he wrote are older then Tito so you b_ll sh_t dose not add up dont tell lies just to support your stories also are greeks turks alot of greeks just over 100years ago said they were turks to save them selfs so if its good for macedonians to be bulgarians [...]

Read the full comment or serb just because the ruled over us for a period of time it must be good enough for you also so your not greeks but turks wake up and smell the feta

world must help' republic of macedonia; not to be dominate by big bully like the greeks shame ..shame .on ;;EU..MACEDONIA ALWAYS WILL BE MACEDONIA ;;; DO NOT MIX GREEK HISTORY WITH MACEDONIAN.. GREEKS COME FROME ETHIOPIA SE THE,DNA TEST.. MACEDONIAN ARE EUROPIAN RACE OF PEOPLE...WELL DONE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA ,DO NOT GIVE UP TO THE BULSHIT GREEK PROPAGANDA;;;

republic of macedonia done the best to protect the macedonia hystory;; greeks are the big problem bullying republic of macedonia for very long time macedonian history can be sold;; the greeks must but out ,,

republic of macedonia have done the best to keep the history of macedonains,greeks are the biggest bullies in the world with false claiming macedonian history;using force to a small country like republic of macedonia;;world must stop greeks bullies..macedonia always will be macedonia and macedonian history do not mix with greek propaganda from 1913 till today 2010,,, full stop

FYROM should never be referred as Macedonia or Republic of Macedonia or even use the Greek name Macedonia. It is historically inappropriate. Ancient Macedonians have alway claimed to be Greek and they even spoke Greek while FYROM a slavic race which arrived into Europe 1000 years after Alexander The Great speak a language that is Bulgarian. About a century ago FYROM used to refer to themself as Bulgarians, and during the 1945 when Tito of Yugoslavia change Southern Serbia (Vardar Banovina) into Macedonia they Re-Identified themself as Macedonians how ridiculous that is.....
NO!! to FYROM using the Greek [...]

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As long as Gruevski's nationalistic rhetoric dominates our country's political platform a compromise is as likely as Al. Veliki coming back to life!