CAUSE CELEBRE: Spaska Mitrova, at the centre of a dispute between Bulgaria and Macedonia that has seen some voices in Sofia, including Prime Minister Boiko Borissov, hint that Bulgarian support for Macedonia’s EU hopes could be withdrawn.
Photo: Assen Tonev
It is in the nature of sibling relationships for occasional strife to spawn emotional, if not hysterical language, customarily laced with threats; so too Bulgaria and Macedonia. Even by the heady standards of the Balkans, Macedonia’s bilateral relations seem defined by matters of deeply-felt emotions. Its dispute with Greece about the use of the name Macedonia is the prime example.
It is trite yet true to point out that Bulgaria was the first country to recognise Macedonia under that name, with the "former Yugoslav republic of" prefix, but this first flowering has proved anything but hardy in the long term.
Many issues have divided the two, not least contests about history and ownership of historical figures, and on top of that, bitter divisions about questions of language and mutual claims made, and rejected, about respective ethnic minorities.
More recently, the Spaska Mitrova case which, in sum, involves a woman who was born in Macedonia but got a Bulgarian passport, was involved in a custody matter which saw her jailed for refusing to allow the father access to the child, then was released in what was seen as a gain for Bulgarian Prime Minister Boiko Borissov, but more recently, a Macedonian court deprived her of custody – and barred Bulgarian officials from its in-camera proceedings.
The most recent episode led to Deputy Foreign Minister Marin Raikov summoning Skopje’s ambassador, Aleksandar Vasilevski, to protest the court proceedings.
Raikov told journalists after his meeting with Vasilevski that he had heard no convincing explanations for which the court had handled the matter as it had. Borissov hinted that unless Skopje "fixed" its judiciary, it could not rely on Bulgaria’s support for its hopes to join the European Union.
At the initiatives of Bulgarian socialists in the European Parliament, the country’s MEPs from all political groups were to request a meeting with European Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele to present to him cases of alleged infringements of people of Bulgarian identity in Macedonia, news agency Focus said, quoting a media statement by the socialists.
Against the background of the ambivalent relationship between Sofia and Skopje, and even the newest episode in the Mitrova saga unfolded, a process was in train at the initiative of the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry to set relations on a new footing.
Proposed as the basis for discussion, the draft treaty sent by Bulgaria to Macedonia is intended to set the scene for good neighbourliness, and in its current form, would bind the two countries to renounce territorial claims, forego hate speech (Bulgaria repeatedly has complained to Macedonia about the language used in some media reports) and, on the positive side, moots joint celebrations of some historical events, preservation of common cultural heritage and co-operation in a number of spheres, significantly in the economy, energy and infrastructure.
It appears to be a magnanimous gesture by Bulgaria, which – let it be said – has scant need for economic or political support from Macedonia, a country with a battered economy and where the main advantage of eventual EU membership would be to tie it into a system of agreed rules as part of a wider project to seek to ensure the long-term stability of the Western Balkans.
Those Western Balkans are, after all, precisely the place where Bulgaria has offered itself to the EU as the policy point person for the bloc. Repairing bilateral relations with Macedonia has to be an important step in this wider process, and it can be no surprise that, between emotionally-charged moments in Skopje and occasional harsh statements in Sofia, the notion of renovating relations has been expressed both by the presidents of the two countries and by Government leaders in Bulgaria.
This is not the first time such an initiative has been tried, and there is no guarantee that it will succeed this time around, much as Bulgaria – now with Nikolai Mladenov bringing new momentum as Foreign Minister – may genuinely desire progress.
Several days after the draft document was sent to Macedonia, official silence reigned from Skopje, or at least, there was little beyond a statement by the foreign ministry in the Macedonia capital that it would study the document very carefully. The document makes no linkage between repaired relations in the areas outlined in the clauses and Bulgarian support for Macedonia’s EU bid; the Foreign Ministry rejects the notion of any such linkage existing.
However, and perhaps as an illustration of the very problems that the document seeks to solve, media in Skopje immediately linked the draft to Bulgarian policy on Macedonia’s EU aspirations.
"Such fears, however, are quite unreasonable as so far Bulgaria has supported Macedonia’s efforts for EU and Nato integration despite the problems between the two countries," Bulgarian National Radio said on March 13, adding that Mladenov was expected to visit Skopje soon, "which might shed more light on the issue".
Light, however, can be an elusive thing. In Skopje, television station A1 said that Macedonia wanted the two countries to sign the European Convention on Minority Rights, opening the way for Bulgaria to recognise the Macedonian minority. This, according to A1, as reported by news agency Focus, was not the only issue; there were misgivings about the identifications to be assigned to some revolutionaries and writers, too.
And, in a comment on March 15 that also underlined the degree of suspicion, Macedonian foreign minister Antonio Milososki was quoted by a local newspaper as saying that behind every well-intentioned move towards good neighbourly relations, there was self-interest. The draft document, Milososki said, put "rosy nuances" on bilateral relations between Bulgaria and Macedonia.
The citizens of Skopje are Slavs particularly of Bulgarian and Serbian descent. Pretending to be a northern Greek tribe called Macedonians of Dorian descent will come back to haunt you and bite you (Albanians)
DimitriThu, Apr 01 2010 08:51 CET
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
No Peco you wrong is no possible one country 99%. Makedonia is Makedones but also Bulgari, Vlachi, Alvani, Tourki same likin you skopia you havin Yugoslavi-Skopiani, Bulgari, Vlachi , and you havin 66% Alvani. My Makedones people havin long istoria but not only people here you wrong Peco. You speakin propoganda likin you bossi Gruvki o boxeris who no havin mialo. Gruvki no good politicos he no havin mialo he only good makin Bureki for skopia people only needin Cheese and alevri. Peco ta skopia havin pascha also now maybe eatin bureki and arni and not Prasko-PIGGY for pasha this [...]
Read the full commentOK but lamb better. MY Bulgari fili Vlade, Zoran, Blaze comin my house for Pascha in Florina. We grill 15 lamb with mnay lemonia, dendrolivani, and much krasi. My Bulgari fili speakin for skopia havin problima for pasha no havin many praski maybe you eatin arni this time is different from Yugoslavi food but very very good. Ande Peco and all skopiani speakin Kakosi sta skopia and to skopia people from Makedones in Florina. Peco no forgetin for eatin arni no Piggy but you can eatin you bossis Bureki he I thinkn is best job for him. He no needin much brain for makin Bureki only heria.
Macedonians are Bulgarians! If you look at 19th century European maps they show this area as part of Bulgarian speaking, serb should leave them alone concentrate on ALbian
Peasant.
A category error occurs when someone acts as though some object had properties which it does not or cannot have. The reason why it cannot have those properties is because the properties belong to objects in some other category or class.
i.e Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
hope this is helpfull.
Tour Answer.
How Vardarska Banovina, a Serb province, was renamed
renamed Socialist Federal Republic
of Macedonia are you asking me Ask
Jossip Bros not me.
I repeat.
they call you Voulgari because that is really your ethnicity which Jossip Broz raising hell from 1944 onward made you forget also made you ride the broom stick. forgetting that Macedonia is a Geographical
term and not an ethnicity Greek,Bulgar,Serb,Croat,
Slovene,Albanian,Montenegrin Turk,Romanians,Bosnians are ethnicities.
Doper vecher!
Peco.
Anyone with an IQ above 90 will
say your post is 100% a copy paste of other previous illustrious posts of yours
the only new nonsense you added
is about the tourist guide "great piece of evidence" about ethnicity!!! ALL THE REST IS THE SAME RISTO c**p WE ARE USED TO READ .
Bulgaria is giving the passports so as to help those interested
to find a job and make a living outside Fyrom. why? because the situation in Fyrom is very goood ???? .Yes my friend [...]
Read the full commentthey call you Voulgari because that is really your ethnicity which Jossip Broz raising hell from 1944 onward made you forget also made you ride the broom stick. forgetting that Macedonia is a Geographical
term and not an ethnicity Greek,Bulgar,Serb,Croat,
Slovene,Albanian,Montenegrin Turk,Romanians,Bosnians are ethnicities.
priyatna vecher priyatele
Aries,I thing you should ride the broom to the mythical Hellas.The think is, they would be ashamed to meet you because you screwed up the democracy they practiced then.
Aries,have I touched a nerve?. Here is the breaking news;Greek Tourist Guide on Travel Channel. In an Anthony Bourdain episode about Greece on the Travel Channel aired on March 25,2010 Mr.Bourdain asked his Tourist Guide"What is it really a Greek?"Is it an ethnicity,who are the Greeks? The Tourist Guide response was "It is not an ethnicity,it is a group of mixed people who came to this area" The Macedonians have been saying this for decades,the Germans just started saying this,and it seems the Greeks eventually cought up with it.Dimitri,I promissed to give you a little medicen to your claim of [...]
Read the full commentbeing a 99.9% Greeks (Hellens),but you have no connection to the Hellens let along to the ancient or present Macedonians.You see, we do have ethnicity for centuries as Macedonians.Greeces claim of Macedonians being Greek is an outright lie.Tito had nothing to do with Macedonias ethnicity.When we were called Macedonians and spoke Macedonian,Tito was not even conceived, not born yet,even Greece did not exist.Now, on Spaska Mitrova Bulgaria has no business with the case.Do you remember Gruevskis comment in Australia and the absurd Bulgarian complaine on his comment about the Macedonian diaspora? Well, she is a Macedonian by birth with Bulgarian passport,do you see the similarity or should I say the ambiguity on the part of Bulgaria?.Why should Macedonia not talk about the Macedonian ethnics in Bulgaria or any other place,but Bulgaria can?.Bulgaria and Greece were told by the EU to recognize the Macedonian minorities in both countries.The last one being last week when the EU parliament voted unanimously for the recognition of Macedonians.As for Bulgarians in Aegean Macedonia is absurd claim by Greece.When the "Pospasma" were comming to my home town whenever they heard us speak Macedonian,they called us "Vulgari" this is same thing by you today.We know who we are,do you know who you are?.Even Greeks themselves recognized that you have no ethnicity.Remember, 66% of you are Albanians,rest are Macedonians,Turks,Vlahs,Roma and others.Have a nice day!
Yia sou Peco you skopiani people forget for Tito speakin kakosi. He speakin for ta skopia one day havin Makedonia but Makedones and Bulgari kick you skopiani poeple to skopia and today you askin for istoria Makedones. Maybe you Buy Makedones book and reading my people istoria and after ta skopia can makin you istoria with you Dedo Tito who thinkin he takin Makedonia. Astia kai Palavos o Titos o pateras tou skopiano
Yes Peter if it wasn't for Tito you would still be called a Yugoslavos. Today you are called by many peole a Skopianos and before Tito a Bulgarian. Peter your Skopian ideology is as old as Tito. Tomorrow you will have a new name maybe ta skopia with Bureki. But today ta skopia stays in the Tito years still trying to find a name that every one in the world can cal you. In Australia and America they still call you skopiani people Yugis I never heard that before. But my cousins in Melbourne say that all the Austarlians call [...]
Read the full commentyou Yudgis there because before 1991 your people had no other name hows that for a name. So if you like Yugis or Skopianos its all the same to me Peter in Greece we know who we are Makedones!
Mavroudi,Dimitri and Vincent,what is your ethnicity,or better still, do you belong to an ethnicity at all?.I just want to hear your answer before I make my next comment that will embarass you.I dare you to answer this question. My comment will appear on Friday.
"Aries, Macedonia is Macedonia whether in Greece, Bulgaria or The Republic of Macedonia!!!"
Just like Thrace is Thrace - whether in Turkey BG or Greece - it's a geographical term, not a nation. Both of those nations, the Macedonians and the Thracians, are in the dust bin of history. You are former Yugoslavs and if you want proof just look at your ethno-politics - that's why you killed each other over there...
The difference between Bulgars and Thracians is language and religion = culture = nationality. The same between you, the ex-Bulgar, [...]
Dimitri you sound like a good lad from the Athens area, why are you pretending to live in Florina and have Bulgarian friends, you should be worrying about how Greece will be payin off it's enourmous debt and finding a job (don't try the tourist industry however), will get your mind off this this false notion that Greeks are Macedonian just because you won the Balkan war!
Aries, Macedonia is Macedonia whether in Greece, Bulgaria or The Republic of Macedonia!!!
Mavroudi,you must be from another planet.As I said before,the Macedonians have learned their language from their grandmothers and beyond.The Macedonian people never had a chance to learn their language or even change the language for centuries. On the other hand, the Greeks spoke totaly different language till they changed it through schooling.This has been taking place for almost two centuries because Greeces majority were Albanians,Vlahs,Macedonians and Turks.The Greek government had to provide free schooling in order to recruit their army.May I remind you that to be a Greek you must speak greek,to declair yourself greek.You see,you have no ethnicity,or purity.Your [...]
Read the full commentclaim of continuation of the Hellens is a pure myth.There were 27 PM of Greece that were Albanians,plus the present President Papulias,can you deny this fact?.Of course you will,you think everything is Greek. Dimitri,my brain works fine,but the problem is,does yours work.The Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia,Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia we speak the exact same macedonian language.If you do some research of your language you will be able to tell the differance.The Bulgarian language is an offshut of the Macedonian language,do your research please.
Peter are you sane of course Ippos means horse in Greek as does hyga/hydra water; oinos wine; ixthys fish; oikos house and thats also where economy comes from; gidia goats; artos bread especially the Greek church bread; Mys actually means muscle not mouse. Peter you have to get up early to learn ancient Greek. The skopiani have yugoslavika from Tito. Dimitrov in 1945 anted that the Bulgarian language stayed wiht the skopiani but Tito wanted you to have Yugoslavika. You must be very jealous of our Greek language if you want to destroy it. You can never destroy the Greeks. [...]
Read the full commentJust like Megas Alexandros destroyed the Paonnians from skopia so too the modern Makedones push back ta skopia and the skopiani. Sat hello to your godfather Tito who gave you your name LOL.
Sasha you very different speakin from Peco but you no from ta skopia. Peco havin problima with all people Makedones and Bulgari maybe he no understandin same glossa you Sasha. Peco speakin skopiani glossa and you speakin Bulgarika sta skopia. Is no possible Peco is Bulgaros people and no Polonos or skopianos. I no understandin. To Makedones all people likin Peco is Judas he try takin home from Makedones likin before Tito try with many skopiani in 1947 but my Makedones from ELAS and the Bulgari from SNOF makin Tito and his Skopiani run like rabbits to Yugoslavia and never [...]
Read the full commentcome to Makedonia afraid from my people. This Judas people try many time takin everything. My Bulgaria fili Zoran, Vlade, Risto, Gotso from Florina and Kastoria all time speakin for people from ta skopia is Judas they only want takin him homes. This Bulgari fili fightin for SNOF communista likin ELAS for Makedones and he all livin here only fasistas people go to Polonia and Ameriki. Every time Peco speakin for Lerin he same Judas for many Bulgari people thinkin this people from ta skoia need new boxeri because Gruvski no good boxeri Zoran speakin maybe he makin good bureki for Peco familia and other Poloni people.
Again Peter you have made a fool of yourself cutting and pasting Stefov's lidicrous Bull. When did Stefov become an expert in Philology let alone history. This man has brainwashed you so deeply that you inadvertantly repeat his Bull to the embarrasment of our fellow Macedonians. How on earth can you believe that Macedonian is an offshoot of Bulgarian when the first ever recorded language in Ohrid in the 9th cent. was known as Old-Bulgarian later changed to Old-Slavonic. You have taken your ignorance to a new level Peter and with that you have epitomised what it means to steal, [...]
To fool, the Macedonians living in Macedonia have washed brains of kominterma (funny and sad), and they have not feelings not brains to understand that their great-great-great grandparents are Macedonians. Now Bulgarians, Greeks and Serbs should tell us who we are and what we are.
Really funny and sad for "YOU".
Each honor of your stupidity and ignoring everything is Macedonian. How it is uncivilized as "civilized European citizens," How sad is that.......
I think that this is not "Inappropriate comment"
Thank you
Dimitri,Valeri and Aries,first of all the Bulgarian language is an offshut of the Macedonian language.The Macedonian language is older than that of Bulgaria as well as the Greek language.Now you say how so?The Bulgarian language was Mongolic,the Greek language was established in 1829-34.The ancient Hellenic language is not readable or understood by the present Greeks.At the begening of this nation they spoke the "Katherevusa"in the 19th century.The language was changed to "Dimotiki late in the 20th century.This language had to be learned in school,it was not spocken in their homes like the Macedonians did.The Macedonian language was not learned in [...]
Read the full commentschool,but learned from our parents,grandparents and so on.So you see,the Macedonian language is oldest in the Balkans.Anyone can argue on the subject,but the facts dont misslead as the Bulgarian and Greek fabrications.Here is the Helenic language that no Greek understands;Ipos-horse,Hyga-water,Oikos-house,Ithis-fish,Oinos-wine,ega-goat,Artos-bread,Ris-mouse,Mys-mouse.The Greek is bastardized language. It is not pure"Greek" as being claimed today.Todays Greek language is a mixture of Turkish,Albanian,Vlah and Byzantine church language.Now on the Macedonian language;this language has more ancient words in the Macedonian vocabulary than any Balkan language.For instance,old first than todays;Gazi-gazi-steping,Vadi-vadi-watering,and many more.I can only suggest to you,do research your own language and find out how far will take you. Have a nice day!
PEASent
what it now the Greek province of Macodonia yes I agree but not the Paeonian
Federal republic of Macedodonia
was the name given by Jossip Broz
(Tito) to Vardarska Banovina in 1945-46.
Yes Kiro Makedonia is in Europe but ta skopia is in Balkania an d the skopiani people is Balkani. When ta skopia comin inside Europi maybe skopiani become europei or maybe amerikani, poloni, or still yugoslavi. Tito speakin for skopiani not become Bulgari and he try to make skopiani yugoslavi but he speakin problima with Makedones from ELAS not want yugoslavi skopiani only Bulgari people from Makedonia. Tito he no understandin Makedones polemistes thinkin easy but he see how stupid he become when Makedones and Bulgari come back to Monastiri and take everythin from skopiani yugoslavi and go to roussia. [...]
Read the full commentAH o polemos very hard for Makedones and Bulgari but now ta skopia have also problima because Tito forget to give skopia power for skopiani and today many skopiani no have nothing. In skopia everythin cemento only ochrida beautiful meros many Bulgaria people livin there. Everybody understandin politiko problima sta skopia maybe o Gruvski can become new Boxeri somebody speak me he boxeri before I thinkin no possible he to soft and micros (small). Maybe he better for makin burek for skopiani.
You see Peco ta skopia have many Bulgaria people no how you speak only Skopiani. If you no believin you must read this woman Bulgaria problima me ta skopia. Same in Makedonia many skopiani thinkin Bulgaria people in Florina is Skopiani but no true this people Bulgaria. My fili Vlade, Zoran, Blaze always speakin of Bulgaria glossa also in skopia they speakin all Bulgaria glossa. In Makedonia beautiful place many mountains, horia, and beautiful Makedoniki musiki and horo. The Makedones good people all time but ta skopia and the skopiani people likin Peco is stupid people not understandin real people [...]
Read the full commentonly fantasia. Palavi anthropi. Ta skopia have also good people likin ochrida many Bulgaria people livin there and speakin all time good for Makedones and other Ellines. This people in ochrida understandin istoria from Makedonia and all Balkania but Peco no understandin Balkania only Polonia. Peco Polonia is good country for you everybody speakin Slaviki glossa no problima for you. Yiasou Peco apo ti Makedonia.
I Makedonia gia tous Makedones.
Sorry Aries and Valeri, Macedonians have been calling themselves that long before your Tito and 1913 theories in all of Macedonia so stop conjuring up these modern day mytholgy!!
The Titoic relics
had the following in their mind
a)cut off every link between the so-called "Macedonians" and the Bulgarians, as a well as the Serbs, and to convince the people that they belonged to a separate Slavic nation, the "Macedonian" one. Therefore the history of the region, as well as the language, had to be "purged" of all Bulgarian and Serbian elements. All Bulgarian and Serbian historical data connected to that region - historical events, people, activities and intellectual work - were renamed "Macedonian"18, so that they could be incorporated [...]
Read the full commentinto the new "Macedonian".
B)eliminate Greek character of Macedonia and Macedonian history; and this would be achieved by minimizing the Greek presence in this region and misinterpreting or falsifying their role, specifically the cultural and intellectual contribution of Hellenism, the orthodox Greek clergy and Greek schools.
c)search for, fabricate and project the historical development of the so-called "Macedonian people", so as to prove the separate national identity of the "Macedonians", as well as their cohesion and continuity from ancient times until today. It should be noted that this attempt was the reverse of normal methods: that is, they studied modern history first and turned to the study of Antiquity later.
The "Macedonians" used to be Bulgarians until 1913 when Serbia and Greece stabbed BG in the back, as we were holding the front against our common enemy the Ottomans, and took over what the terororries populated with Bulgarians.
Those lands were in northern Greece and what is today's FYROM.
The Serbs beat and expelled most priests teachers and any one with half a brain from FYROM.
Many fled to BG.
The rest had their name ending changed as well of some of the language ang grammar.
Stop stealing identity - [...]
Nearchus and nn,did you just droped to earth from Mars?. I dont understand why Bulgaria does not recognize the Macedonian minority.In 1945 Bulgaria offered the Macedonian part to Tito,but Tito did not accept it.Now than,the question to you is;why did Bulgaria made this offer,or was it a coincidance? It is very abviouse to me that Macedonian land and people are in Bulgaria since 1913. Remember this date how it came to exist?.Macedonians are not Bulgarians nor Greek.The question is;can one ethnicity can become a double? But the real question is,why both countries are fighting the Macedonians and telling us that [...]
Read the full commentwe belong in their camp!Why are you not fighting among yourselves over Macedonia.I think you know why,but you are afraid loosing the fight both Bulgaria and Greece.You people are not using common sense,you cannot tell the difference in order to make an educated comment.It shows,when two countries are fighting over Macedonia both have a hidden agenda,and that is the fabrication of history.
Why oy think you knew?Why dont you ask someone who was working back then in the borders how nice the chocholates and the koniaks tasted and how happy they were when those who were passing the borders from Yugoslavia were giving to them!!Are u serius now??Even now with Visa liberitation,still almost 90% of you people dont know what Europe and civilitation looks like..I dont know how but you people have to wake up somehow to reallity..
Bulgarians calling Macedonians peasants. Look who is calling the kettle black, until the 90's you Bulgars did not know what the rest of the world looked like.
bulgaria worries about spaska Mitrova, what about the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria?The EU has told Bulgaria to recognize Omo Ilinden the Macedonian Party,but they cry about one individual who is Macedonian by birth.furtheremore,Bulgaria does not recognizes the Macedonian language even though the Bulgarians use the Macedonian alphabet,the Cyrilic alphabet.Bulgaria even claims the Macedonian revolutioneries as theirs. It is absurd for Bulgaria to claim that the Macedonians are Bulgars like Gotse Delchev and Jane Sandanski who was killed by the Bulgarians in 1915.Macedonia has to be careful with Bulgarian overtures.
This is Macedonia this shit with Spaska who is Macedonian citizen is all internal macedonian problem, the icident occured in Macedonia and only macedonian courts have juristiction over. Any foreign involvement is an involmvment of domestic macedonian affairs. It has nothing to do with Bulgaria even though she has bulgarian passaport and the only reason she was given a bulagrian passaport was for the bulagrian government to show there is bulgarian minority in macedonia, but the dumb bith thought she can travel to EU with that. As for the idiots above, John and Dobce it is your countries that falsified [...]
Read the full commentdocuments etc. to gain membershp in EU, Greeks are broke no money, bulgarians the bigest mafia that owns a country, and they are civilized??? hahahha
What's wrong with peasants? They are hard woking people who are trying to make a living out of a hard environment.
I think it is these civilized people who cause all the troubles by their lies and deception and then cause problems so they can blame the peasants!!
Elena Poptodorova has been named to return to Washington, Deputy Foreign Minister Marin Raikov to become ambassador in Paris, Rakovski Lashev in Skopje and Alexander Savov to be Bulgaria’s envoy in Unesco.
The current ‘negative Arctic Oscillation’ – a weather phenomenon which leads to cold conditions in Europe and relatively warmer conditions in the Arctic – should shift into a more neutral pattern within the next two to three weeks.
The extreme cold has been blamed for almost 400 deaths across Europe. In Ukraine, where temperatures have fallen below minus 30 degrees Celsius, the cold is blamed for at least 122 deaths. Many of the victims were homeless.
Foreign Minister Nikolai Mladenov says that Bulgaria supports the draft Security Council resolution presented by Morocco because it outlines a peaceful transition process that is the only way to stop the killings of civilians in Syria.
How much is Greece? Thank you
The citizens of Skopje are Slavs particularly of Bulgarian and Serbian descent. Pretending to be a northern Greek tribe called Macedonians of Dorian descent will come back to haunt you and bite you (Albanians)
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
No Peco you wrong is no possible one country 99%. Makedonia is Makedones but also Bulgari, Vlachi, Alvani, Tourki same likin you skopia you havin Yugoslavi-Skopiani, Bulgari, Vlachi , and you havin 66% Alvani. My Makedones people havin long istoria but not only people here you wrong Peco. You speakin propoganda likin you bossi Gruvki o boxeris who no havin mialo. Gruvki no good politicos he no havin mialo he only good makin Bureki for skopia people only needin Cheese and alevri. Peco ta skopia havin pascha also now maybe eatin bureki and arni and not Prasko-PIGGY for pasha this [...]
Read the full comment OK but lamb better. MY Bulgari fili Vlade, Zoran, Blaze comin my house for Pascha in Florina. We grill 15 lamb with mnay lemonia, dendrolivani, and much krasi. My Bulgari fili speakin for skopia havin problima for pasha no havin many praski maybe you eatin arni this time is different from Yugoslavi food but very very good. Ande Peco and all skopiani speakin Kakosi sta skopia and to skopia people from Makedones in Florina. Peco no forgetin for eatin arni no Piggy but you can eatin you bossis Bureki he I thinkn is best job for him. He no needin much brain for makin Bureki only heria.
Aries
Exactly, I knew you would get my point eventual!!!
Macedonians are Bulgarians! If you look at 19th century European maps they show this area as part of Bulgarian speaking, serb should leave them alone concentrate on ALbian
Peasant.
A category error occurs when someone acts as though some object had properties which it does not or cannot have. The reason why it cannot have those properties is because the properties belong to objects in some other category or class.
i.e Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
hope this is helpfull.
Aries - you mis-spelled my name. For someone as concerned with accuracy as you are, this is a strange mistake for you to make.
Also, what - please - is "category error" ? Is it some IT error message ?
Peasent.
Category Error.
But Carry on ot looks interesting
The real answer is, Aries is not a Hellene and Valeri is not a Bulgar!!
"Valeri, the Macedonians however still exist nice try!!!"
I know, there are some Bulgarian Slavs over in ex-Yugoslavia who have adopted the name of the territory they occupy....
Tour Answer.
How Vardarska Banovina, a Serb province, was renamed
renamed Socialist Federal Republic
of Macedonia are you asking me Ask
Jossip Bros not me.
I repeat.
they call you Voulgari because that is really your ethnicity which Jossip Broz raising hell from 1944 onward made you forget also made you ride the broom stick. forgetting that Macedonia is a Geographical
term and not an ethnicity Greek,Bulgar,Serb,Croat,
Slovene,Albanian,Montenegrin Turk,Romanians,Bosnians are ethnicities.
Doper vecher!
Aries, and what c**p are we supposed to believe your mythical c**p or Dimitri's grade shool c**p!!!
Valeri, the Macedonians however still exist nice try!!!
Peco.
Anyone with an IQ above 90 will
say your post is 100% a copy paste of other previous illustrious posts of yours
the only new nonsense you added
is about the tourist guide "great piece of evidence" about ethnicity!!! ALL THE REST IS THE SAME RISTO c**p WE ARE USED TO READ .
Bulgaria is giving the passports so as to help those interested
to find a job and make a living outside Fyrom. why? because the situation in Fyrom is very goood ???? .Yes my friend [...]
Read the full comment they call you Voulgari because that is really your ethnicity which Jossip Broz raising hell from 1944 onward made you forget also made you ride the broom stick. forgetting that Macedonia is a Geographical
term and not an ethnicity Greek,Bulgar,Serb,Croat,
Slovene,Albanian,Montenegrin Turk,Romanians,Bosnians are ethnicities.
priyatna vecher priyatele
Aries,I thing you should ride the broom to the mythical Hellas.The think is, they would be ashamed to meet you because you screwed up the democracy they practiced then.
Aries,have I touched a nerve?. Here is the breaking news;Greek Tourist Guide on Travel Channel. In an Anthony Bourdain episode about Greece on the Travel Channel aired on March 25,2010 Mr.Bourdain asked his Tourist Guide"What is it really a Greek?"Is it an ethnicity,who are the Greeks? The Tourist Guide response was "It is not an ethnicity,it is a group of mixed people who came to this area" The Macedonians have been saying this for decades,the Germans just started saying this,and it seems the Greeks eventually cought up with it.Dimitri,I promissed to give you a little medicen to your claim of [...]
Read the full comment being a 99.9% Greeks (Hellens),but you have no connection to the Hellens let along to the ancient or present Macedonians.You see, we do have ethnicity for centuries as Macedonians.Greeces claim of Macedonians being Greek is an outright lie.Tito had nothing to do with Macedonias ethnicity.When we were called Macedonians and spoke Macedonian,Tito was not even conceived, not born yet,even Greece did not exist.Now, on Spaska Mitrova Bulgaria has no business with the case.Do you remember Gruevskis comment in Australia and the absurd Bulgarian complaine on his comment about the Macedonian diaspora? Well, she is a Macedonian by birth with Bulgarian passport,do you see the similarity or should I say the ambiguity on the part of Bulgaria?.Why should Macedonia not talk about the Macedonian ethnics in Bulgaria or any other place,but Bulgaria can?.Bulgaria and Greece were told by the EU to recognize the Macedonian minorities in both countries.The last one being last week when the EU parliament voted unanimously for the recognition of Macedonians.As for Bulgarians in Aegean Macedonia is absurd claim by Greece.When the "Pospasma" were comming to my home town whenever they heard us speak Macedonian,they called us "Vulgari" this is same thing by you today.We know who we are,do you know who you are?.Even Greeks themselves recognized that you have no ethnicity.Remember, 66% of you are Albanians,rest are Macedonians,Turks,Vlahs,Roma and others.Have a nice day!
Peco
Get The hell off the Broom-Stick
you might hurt in the fall.
cheers!!!
Yia sou Peco you skopiani people forget for Tito speakin kakosi. He speakin for ta skopia one day havin Makedonia but Makedones and Bulgari kick you skopiani poeple to skopia and today you askin for istoria Makedones. Maybe you Buy Makedones book and reading my people istoria and after ta skopia can makin you istoria with you Dedo Tito who thinkin he takin Makedonia. Astia kai Palavos o Titos o pateras tou skopiano
Yes Peter if it wasn't for Tito you would still be called a Yugoslavos. Today you are called by many peole a Skopianos and before Tito a Bulgarian. Peter your Skopian ideology is as old as Tito. Tomorrow you will have a new name maybe ta skopia with Bureki. But today ta skopia stays in the Tito years still trying to find a name that every one in the world can cal you. In Australia and America they still call you skopiani people Yugis I never heard that before. But my cousins in Melbourne say that all the Austarlians call [...]
Read the full comment you Yudgis there because before 1991 your people had no other name hows that for a name. So if you like Yugis or Skopianos its all the same to me Peter in Greece we know who we are Makedones!
Mavroudi,Dimitri and Vincent,what is your ethnicity,or better still, do you belong to an ethnicity at all?.I just want to hear your answer before I make my next comment that will embarass you.I dare you to answer this question. My comment will appear on Friday.
"Aries, Macedonia is Macedonia whether in Greece, Bulgaria or The Republic of Macedonia!!!"
Just like Thrace is Thrace - whether in Turkey BG or Greece - it's a geographical term, not a nation. Both of those nations, the Macedonians and the Thracians, are in the dust bin of history. You are former Yugoslavs and if you want proof just look at your ethno-politics - that's why you killed each other over there...
The difference between Bulgars and Thracians is language and religion = culture = nationality. The same between you, the ex-Bulgar, [...]
Read the full comment ex-Yugoslav Makedonitsi and the Macedonians.
Dimitri you sound like a good lad from the Athens area, why are you pretending to live in Florina and have Bulgarian friends, you should be worrying about how Greece will be payin off it's enourmous debt and finding a job (don't try the tourist industry however), will get your mind off this this false notion that Greeks are Macedonian just because you won the Balkan war!
Aries, Macedonia is Macedonia whether in Greece, Bulgaria or The Republic of Macedonia!!!
Mavroudi,you must be from another planet.As I said before,the Macedonians have learned their language from their grandmothers and beyond.The Macedonian people never had a chance to learn their language or even change the language for centuries. On the other hand, the Greeks spoke totaly different language till they changed it through schooling.This has been taking place for almost two centuries because Greeces majority were Albanians,Vlahs,Macedonians and Turks.The Greek government had to provide free schooling in order to recruit their army.May I remind you that to be a Greek you must speak greek,to declair yourself greek.You see,you have no ethnicity,or purity.Your [...]
Read the full comment claim of continuation of the Hellens is a pure myth.There were 27 PM of Greece that were Albanians,plus the present President Papulias,can you deny this fact?.Of course you will,you think everything is Greek. Dimitri,my brain works fine,but the problem is,does yours work.The Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia,Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia we speak the exact same macedonian language.If you do some research of your language you will be able to tell the differance.The Bulgarian language is an offshut of the Macedonian language,do your research please.
Peter are you sane of course Ippos means horse in Greek as does hyga/hydra water; oinos wine; ixthys fish; oikos house and thats also where economy comes from; gidia goats; artos bread especially the Greek church bread; Mys actually means muscle not mouse. Peter you have to get up early to learn ancient Greek. The skopiani have yugoslavika from Tito. Dimitrov in 1945 anted that the Bulgarian language stayed wiht the skopiani but Tito wanted you to have Yugoslavika. You must be very jealous of our Greek language if you want to destroy it. You can never destroy the Greeks. [...]
Read the full comment Just like Megas Alexandros destroyed the Paonnians from skopia so too the modern Makedones push back ta skopia and the skopiani. Sat hello to your godfather Tito who gave you your name LOL.
Sasha you very different speakin from Peco but you no from ta skopia. Peco havin problima with all people Makedones and Bulgari maybe he no understandin same glossa you Sasha. Peco speakin skopiani glossa and you speakin Bulgarika sta skopia. Is no possible Peco is Bulgaros people and no Polonos or skopianos. I no understandin. To Makedones all people likin Peco is Judas he try takin home from Makedones likin before Tito try with many skopiani in 1947 but my Makedones from ELAS and the Bulgari from SNOF makin Tito and his Skopiani run like rabbits to Yugoslavia and never [...]
Read the full comment come to Makedonia afraid from my people. This Judas people try many time takin everything. My Bulgaria fili Zoran, Vlade, Risto, Gotso from Florina and Kastoria all time speakin for people from ta skopia is Judas they only want takin him homes. This Bulgari fili fightin for SNOF communista likin ELAS for Makedones and he all livin here only fasistas people go to Polonia and Ameriki. Every time Peco speakin for Lerin he same Judas for many Bulgari people thinkin this people from ta skoia need new boxeri because Gruvski no good boxeri Zoran speakin maybe he makin good bureki for Peco familia and other Poloni people.
Again Peter you have made a fool of yourself cutting and pasting Stefov's lidicrous Bull. When did Stefov become an expert in Philology let alone history. This man has brainwashed you so deeply that you inadvertantly repeat his Bull to the embarrasment of our fellow Macedonians. How on earth can you believe that Macedonian is an offshoot of Bulgarian when the first ever recorded language in Ohrid in the 9th cent. was known as Old-Bulgarian later changed to Old-Slavonic. You have taken your ignorance to a new level Peter and with that you have epitomised what it means to steal, [...]
Read the full comment cheat, and betray your people.
Long Live the Macedonian Youth & SDSM
To fool, the Macedonians living in Macedonia have washed brains of kominterma (funny and sad), and they have not feelings not brains to understand that their great-great-great grandparents are Macedonians. Now Bulgarians, Greeks and Serbs should tell us who we are and what we are.
Really funny and sad for "YOU".
Each honor of your stupidity and ignoring everything is Macedonian. How it is uncivilized as "civilized European citizens," How sad is that.......
I think that this is not "Inappropriate comment"
Thank you
The so called macedoniana, aka Skopidonians, clearly suffer from split-personality disorder, poor souls ...
EU should administer some schizophrenia treatment ...
One correction,Ris-nose and Mys-mouse.Sorry for the mistake.
Dimitri,Valeri and Aries,first of all the Bulgarian language is an offshut of the Macedonian language.The Macedonian language is older than that of Bulgaria as well as the Greek language.Now you say how so?The Bulgarian language was Mongolic,the Greek language was established in 1829-34.The ancient Hellenic language is not readable or understood by the present Greeks.At the begening of this nation they spoke the "Katherevusa"in the 19th century.The language was changed to "Dimotiki late in the 20th century.This language had to be learned in school,it was not spocken in their homes like the Macedonians did.The Macedonian language was not learned in [...]
s-fish,Oinos-wine,ega-goat,Artos-bread,Ris-mouse,M ys-mouse.The Greek is bastardized language. It is not pure"Greek" as being claimed today.Todays Greek language is a mixture of Turkish,Albanian,Vlah and Byzantine church language.Now on the Macedonian language;this language has more ancient words in the Macedonian vocabulary than any Balkan language.For instance,old first than todays;Gazi-gazi-steping,Vadi-vadi-watering,and many more.I can only suggest to you,do research your own language and find out how far will take you. Have a nice day!
Read the full comment school,but learned from our parents,grandparents and so on.So you see,the Macedonian language is oldest in the Balkans.Anyone can argue on the subject,but the facts dont misslead as the Bulgarian and Greek fabrications.Here is the Helenic language that no Greek understands;Ipos-horse,Hyga-water,Oikos-house,Ithi
Sorry mistyping in previous post
Instead of Federal Republic of Macedonia it should
Read Socialist Federal Republic of Macedonia
PEASent
what it now the Greek province of Macodonia yes I agree but not the Paeonian
Federal republic of Macedodonia
was the name given by Jossip Broz
(Tito) to Vardarska Banovina in 1945-46.
Our Macedonian men are praski. They need their mothers even when they are married. Time to marry Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks, and Turks.
Yes Kiro Makedonia is in Europe but ta skopia is in Balkania an d the skopiani people is Balkani. When ta skopia comin inside Europi maybe skopiani become europei or maybe amerikani, poloni, or still yugoslavi. Tito speakin for skopiani not become Bulgari and he try to make skopiani yugoslavi but he speakin problima with Makedones from ELAS not want yugoslavi skopiani only Bulgari people from Makedonia. Tito he no understandin Makedones polemistes thinkin easy but he see how stupid he become when Makedones and Bulgari come back to Monastiri and take everythin from skopiani yugoslavi and go to roussia. [...]
Read the full comment AH o polemos very hard for Makedones and Bulgari but now ta skopia have also problima because Tito forget to give skopia power for skopiani and today many skopiani no have nothing. In skopia everythin cemento only ochrida beautiful meros many Bulgaria people livin there. Everybody understandin politiko problima sta skopia maybe o Gruvski can become new Boxeri somebody speak me he boxeri before I thinkin no possible he to soft and micros (small). Maybe he better for makin burek for skopiani.
You see Peco ta skopia have many Bulgaria people no how you speak only Skopiani. If you no believin you must read this woman Bulgaria problima me ta skopia. Same in Makedonia many skopiani thinkin Bulgaria people in Florina is Skopiani but no true this people Bulgaria. My fili Vlade, Zoran, Blaze always speakin of Bulgaria glossa also in skopia they speakin all Bulgaria glossa. In Makedonia beautiful place many mountains, horia, and beautiful Makedoniki musiki and horo. The Makedones good people all time but ta skopia and the skopiani people likin Peco is stupid people not understandin real people [...]
Read the full comment only fantasia. Palavi anthropi. Ta skopia have also good people likin ochrida many Bulgaria people livin there and speakin all time good for Makedones and other Ellines. This people in ochrida understandin istoria from Makedonia and all Balkania but Peco no understandin Balkania only Polonia. Peco Polonia is good country for you everybody speakin Slaviki glossa no problima for you. Yiasou Peco apo ti Makedonia.
I Makedonia gia tous Makedones.
Sorry Aries and Valeri, Macedonians have been calling themselves that long before your Tito and 1913 theories in all of Macedonia so stop conjuring up these modern day mytholgy!!
Val
The Titoic relics
had the following in their mind
a)cut off every link between the so-called "Macedonians" and the Bulgarians, as a well as the Serbs, and to convince the people that they belonged to a separate Slavic nation, the "Macedonian" one. Therefore the history of the region, as well as the language, had to be "purged" of all Bulgarian and Serbian elements. All Bulgarian and Serbian historical data connected to that region - historical events, people, activities and intellectual work - were renamed "Macedonian"18, so that they could be incorporated [...]
Read the full comment into the new "Macedonian".
B)eliminate Greek character of Macedonia and Macedonian history; and this would be achieved by minimizing the Greek presence in this region and misinterpreting or falsifying their role, specifically the cultural and intellectual contribution of Hellenism, the orthodox Greek clergy and Greek schools.
c)search for, fabricate and project the historical development of the so-called "Macedonian people", so as to prove the separate national identity of the "Macedonians", as well as their cohesion and continuity from ancient times until today. It should be noted that this attempt was the reverse of normal methods: that is, they studied modern history first and turned to the study of Antiquity later.
The "Macedonians" used to be Bulgarians until 1913 when Serbia and Greece stabbed BG in the back, as we were holding the front against our common enemy the Ottomans, and took over what the terororries populated with Bulgarians.
Those lands were in northern Greece and what is today's FYROM.
The Serbs beat and expelled most priests teachers and any one with half a brain from FYROM.
Many fled to BG.
The rest had their name ending changed as well of some of the language ang grammar.
Stop stealing identity - [...]
Read the full comment you are as Macedonian as the Turks are Roman...
Nearchus and nn,did you just droped to earth from Mars?. I dont understand why Bulgaria does not recognize the Macedonian minority.In 1945 Bulgaria offered the Macedonian part to Tito,but Tito did not accept it.Now than,the question to you is;why did Bulgaria made this offer,or was it a coincidance? It is very abviouse to me that Macedonian land and people are in Bulgaria since 1913. Remember this date how it came to exist?.Macedonians are not Bulgarians nor Greek.The question is;can one ethnicity can become a double? But the real question is,why both countries are fighting the Macedonians and telling us that [...]
Read the full comment we belong in their camp!Why are you not fighting among yourselves over Macedonia.I think you know why,but you are afraid loosing the fight both Bulgaria and Greece.You people are not using common sense,you cannot tell the difference in order to make an educated comment.It shows,when two countries are fighting over Macedonia both have a hidden agenda,and that is the fabrication of history.
Kris
Why oy think you knew?Why dont you ask someone who was working back then in the borders how nice the chocholates and the koniaks tasted and how happy they were when those who were passing the borders from Yugoslavia were giving to them!!Are u serius now??Even now with Visa liberitation,still almost 90% of you people dont know what Europe and civilitation looks like..I dont know how but you people have to wake up somehow to reallity..
Bulgarians calling Macedonians peasants. Look who is calling the kettle black, until the 90's you Bulgars did not know what the rest of the world looked like.
Let first the people of FYROM to decide what are they ??
Are they Albanians, Serbs, Bulgarians, Roma or Turkish?
In any case , one thing that they are NOT and that they will NEVER be , is Macedonians
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
Macedonians are simply brainwashed Bulgarians,.brainwashed to forget they are Bulgarians, come back to the Bg family!
bulgaria worries about spaska Mitrova, what about the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria?The EU has told Bulgaria to recognize Omo Ilinden the Macedonian Party,but they cry about one individual who is Macedonian by birth.furtheremore,Bulgaria does not recognizes the Macedonian language even though the Bulgarians use the Macedonian alphabet,the Cyrilic alphabet.Bulgaria even claims the Macedonian revolutioneries as theirs. It is absurd for Bulgaria to claim that the Macedonians are Bulgars like Gotse Delchev and Jane Sandanski who was killed by the Bulgarians in 1915.Macedonia has to be careful with Bulgarian overtures.
This is Macedonia this shit with Spaska who is Macedonian citizen is all internal macedonian problem, the icident occured in Macedonia and only macedonian courts have juristiction over. Any foreign involvement is an involmvment of domestic macedonian affairs. It has nothing to do with Bulgaria even though she has bulgarian passaport and the only reason she was given a bulagrian passaport was for the bulagrian government to show there is bulgarian minority in macedonia, but the dumb bith thought she can travel to EU with that. As for the idiots above, John and Dobce it is your countries that falsified [...]
Read the full comment documents etc. to gain membershp in EU, Greeks are broke no money, bulgarians the bigest mafia that owns a country, and they are civilized??? hahahha
What's wrong with peasants? They are hard woking people who are trying to make a living out of a hard environment.
I think it is these civilized people who cause all the troubles by their lies and deception and then cause problems so they can blame the peasants!!
The makedonskis are still trying our patience. EU will accept civilised people not peasants even if our cousins.
Macedonia IS in Europe.
As long as Skopje behaves in this way will remain isolated from its neighbours and will never find a place in Europe.