FYROM has agreed on the name "The Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia" OR "FYROM" for short, for all Internal and External communication which Greece agreed. Problem solved, now all of a sudden FYROM don't like its name and now want to be known as "Republic of Macedonia" and are trying to steal Greece's culture and history. The funny thing is that nearly a century ago the people of FYROM used to identify themself as Bulgarians and they still speak Bulgarian. Macedonia has been Greek for over 4000 years and will still be Greek and never Slavic.

hello 2 everyone i was born in aussie 250 yrs of anglo history but being born in aussie dosnt make me an abbo that history belongs 2 them wake up varda

Skopje doesn't want to solve the name issue. The political elite do not wish to join the EU as once they do, they will be subject to oversight and will not be able to steal as easily as they do now. Gruevski and others use the issue as a way to gain nationalist support, and divert attention away from other issues. I spend a large part of my time in Skopje each year, and talking to people I see the tide is turning. They are tired of trading in their standard of living for a name.

Sasha, you can keep disagrying with me,but fact are facts.I dont bullsheat like you do.Here once more what the Irish patriot Roger Casement who had been executed by the British after the 1916 uprising in Ireland put it "I know of two tragic histories in the World-that of Ireland and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented".Macedonia cannot change from Cyrilic to Latin,the Cyrilic Alphabet is pure Macedonian.You cannot argue on this point because Greece did not exist when this Alphabet was formed by the two Macedonian brothers Cyril and Methody from Salonica.There was no Greece [...]

Read the full comment than,not even the Ottoman Empire existed.Your mythical history shows how your inteligence works.Have a nice day.

Sorry - curse of the typo here: I meant "Name" and not "Mane" (hello horses !), but otherwise sentiments are as I described.

helpful to get rid of Gruevski - he has all the diplomatic sensitivity of the boxer that he once was !

Well, not for the first time do I agree yet again
with Greek Macedonian Supremacy:

- call the place Northern Macedonia

- introduce Latin alphabet? Maybe a bit ambitious, but internationally a Good Idea, and no worse that what Moldova did in 1989 in converting from Romanian written in Cyrillic alphabet to Romanian in the correct Latin alphabet (but still spoken with a strong Russian accent !)

- stop all other court cases, EU?NATO vetoes, mutual acrimony. and just Get On With Life (Greece has worse [...]

Read the full comment problems at the moment, and the Macedonia Mane Issue isn't one of them)

Yours constructively....

-

The latest developments about the name dispute. Me and Koinos Nous talked about it: there is a lack of political will to finalize the terms of the agreement about this issue and also the public opinion plays a key role in the process.

Macedonia to be called the Republic of North Macedonia, the language to be written in Latin – makedonski and the nation and identity not to be discussed; this, according to Greek diplomatic resources is the resolution of the name dispute, which is not closed due to the lack of political will and mistrust [...]

Read the full comment between Macedonia and Greece, Macedonian Nova Makadonija newspaper writes.

The same Bull keeps flowing Peter. You haven't changed a whimper on your perceived narrative of our people. As modern Macedonians have become far more enlightened on their historical narrative there are those (like yourself) who keep peddling the same old nationalistic jargon based on little material evidence but more on the oral memory of disgruntled people like your self Peter who lost the war and subsequently their ID. You have never been able to answer a question I posed to you a long time ago as to why our surnames were forcefully changed by our leaders in 1944 from [...]

Read the full comment the Bulgarian -Ov to the Yugoslav -(ov)ski. Even Konev who set out our language in 1944 changed his own name to Konevski to keep in with the TiToistic creation of a new ID. As long as fundamental enquiries remain locked under lock and key by the government there will be forever questions about our Historical narrative. Peter as you a part of the disgruntled diaspora who do nothing more but lie, cheat and steal other peoples identities, histories, and even folk tales you remain a relic of a bygone era. But don't worry soon the new Macedonian generation will change all that. There are to many of us who are questioning your view of history because the evidence just doesn't support your arguments. The level of bias on every level of your little response below is typical of the Stefov trained fabrications coming from many quarters in the diaspora. Last weekend we visited Macedonian friends in Kostur and went to a local Bulgarian wedding where the groom (Bulgarian) was taking a Macedonian woman of Greek background. When I asked them on their thoughts of their Macedonian identity they simply replied that a Macedonian is a non-anatolian refugee "dopio" (native) regardless whether they spoke Greek, Bulgarian, or Vlach. Where does that leave you Peter with the assumption that they all speak the same language as our ROM, of course they do because the Bulgarian dialect difference is slight but still Bulgarian nevertheless.

Long Live the Macedonian Youth & SDSM.
Macedonia 4 all Macedonians of Bulgarian, Greek, Vlach etc. origins.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

Well, I dissagree with you people on the subject of Macedonia. For starters, Greece has no right to deny the name to the Macedonian people as the majority of macedonians do live in the Republic. Secondly,the UN has no mandate to refuse ones name that the overhelming majority want to be called.Read UNs charter # 1. Thirdly,the macedonian people were barred from writting their own history by the occupiers.When the Bulgarians were in Macedonia,the Macedonian people were forced to speak their language. Furthere, the Serbians did exacly the same.Even when the communist rule of Tito suppreset the Macedonian people, those [...]

Read the full comment who spoke of independace were exiled or inprisoned.A high official from Belgrade a Macedonian Kolishevski was ordered to shut eliminate those who were pro-macedonian. Fourthly, the Macedonians in Greece have been intergrated with people from Turkey who spoke no Greek,but were Christians. The Greek government exiled those who claimed to be Macedonians mostly to Bulgaria and all over the world. Those who remained in their own places were subjected to learn the greek language,refused to open up Macedonian schools as been promised by the Serves treaty in 1925. Many Macedonians were imprisoned in a desolate iland of Makroniso. Those who were lucky and survived emmigrated to Austalia,USA,Canada and throughout Europe. This is true with the Ottoman Empire. Just look at the Ellis Iland registar in USA,the majority of them were registered Macedonians in 1909.This register containes thousand upon thousand Macedonian emmigrees. There were also claiming that they were Turks. You cannot find one Macedonian to claim Greeknes. These are facts,the book on these people are open for you to check. Just remember, politics are fabrication of the truth,same when a politisian promisses to you everything on the sky just to get elected.It is a job for themselves,not the people. My own oppinion on the talks is this,Macedonia to put a stop to this idiotic Greek notion, because the UN has no right to immpose different name to people who chose to be called Macedonians. The EU must insist to Greece to recognise the Macedonian minority as Macedonians,and to stop the 99.9% purity claim. No Balkan nation is pure since BC times. A country that respects its people and their Human Rights are stronger and more prosperouse, because all have the same opportunity within their sociaty. Here on this site,we are looking to put down each other.We look how we can diminish their exsistance by denying peoples rights. I must admmit, I do the same. But dont you think we should be more pragmatic on peoples issues?. Dont you think,all people have the right to exist as they wish?. Yes, I made thise derogatory statements over and over, but when you are denying my rights as an individual I am pushed to that point and continue to play the same violine. Have a good day!

I think "Revolution in Skopje" has got it particularly wrong with all these arguable ethnic /linguistic claims from the pre-Christian era. Life moves on, and politics moves on, and in particular current geo-politics is about "now is", and not "then was". (Look at Vietnam as an example, or even the Baltic States, now in the EU, but 20 years ago part of the USSR.) Unfortunately, the post-1945 Greek government has cultivated a "pseudo-ethnicity" whereby supposedly 99% of the current population is ethnically Greek....pull the other leg, it's got brass bells on it !

Oh dear - in today's world where ethnicity (especially dubious ethnicity - Gia sas, o andres athenaioi ) comes second to present day politico-economic realities, does it all matter any more ? We should all be thinking about building a better socio-economic environment in today's
post-Communist Europe, anyway, and never mind from which side of the old Iron Curtain a given nation-state comes from (or how it chooses to name itself). As the remowned early democrat and religious reformer Jan Hus expressed it: "Pravda Vitezhi" - "Truth Shall Conquer". (Oops - was that in a Slavic language (Czech) [...]

Read the full comment ? Oh dear, we Greeks can't accept it then..... O andres athenaioi, grow up and Get A Life, as Socrates said once in the Soctratic Dialogues that I used to have to read in Greek every day at school ! (If anybody made a deathbed scene drag on for ever, he did.)

K.Nnous
<<<You are probably thinking of the Battle of Tannenburg/Gruenwald in 1414, when the Poles and Lithuanians jointly defeated the German Teutonic Knights.>>>

i may not known the Polish history well but cerntainly not to mix the Teutonic knights with the Turks
.
1921-1922 the last armed clash
between Greece and Turkey which ended by the sacking of Smyrma by the Turks.

Scipio -

The army that defeated the Turks at Vienna in 1683 was pure Polish (plus some Silesian and Pomeranian German mercenaries), and contained no Lithuanians at all. By then the two countries had gone their separate ways.

You are probably thinking of the Battle of Tannenburg/Gruenwald in 1414, when the Poles and Lithuanians jointly defeated the German Teutonic Knights.

When was the last time that there was an "official" battle between the Turks and the Greeks ?

complement
i don't meam Polish-lithauanian just Polish.

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You're wrong with your dates, Scipio: Turkish / Greek relations have been "delicate" not just since 1974 as you say, but 1574 !

(Technically, this might even be 1571, as that was when the Ottoman Turks invaded the Greek community in Cyprus !)

I am of course ignoring the successful Turkish siege of Byazantium/Costantinpole in 1453, and also the unsuccessful Turkish siege of Vienna in 1683 (when the Polish army under King Jan Sobieski was instrumental in defeating them.)

Possibly Poland thus has a better record than Greece [...]

Read the full comment at defeating the Turks, but this is getting a bit off-topic.

Keep dreaming Yugoslavsko-Americano.
Makedonia 4 Makedones!
Not Yugoslavoskos!

we will never surrender our proud greek heritage, not 2 the slav's not 2 anyone. your bulgarian sooner you accept it sooner we can move on.MAKEDONIA IS WAS AND ALWAY WILL BE THE LARGEST SECTION OF GREECE so go eat some cevapi all you slav types love it

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

I am a Macedonian and I will never accept any change in my name nor would I ever force someone else to change theirs. MACEDONIA IS, WAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE MACEDONIA!

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

Change the name to Dardania and then skopije can try to invade Kosovo and Albania.

Its obvious the greeks know your plans , so switch tactic.

Republic of Dardania, by the way I was shocked Kosovo did not change its name to Dardania its ancient name. The UN said no to that name due to Serbian sentiment.

We have all seen the tactics the people of Athens republic use regarding borrowing money and not paying it. They will use their dirty bag of tricks for the Macedonians as well.

Ladies and gentlemen from FYROM.
Macedonia has and always will be Greek. The sooner you embrace your Bulgarian roots the better we will all be.

Regards

Greek Macedonian

Aussie, that the fyroms are central to their own maddness only , not to the balkans ... :)

so I propose to call them " a little-soon-to-disappear into oblivion" republic called nothing ...

KOINOS NOUS
When Turkey has internal Unrest it always Backfires to Greece pour consomation locale
This is a Modus Vivendi of
Greco_Turkish relations since 1974
As for Greco_Fyrom alliance it is analogous To Russo_Georrgian if you get the picture.....
to Alex Hawk
your post is of Pythian nature
it creates more incertitude than certitude.

Call it what you will whether it is north central or what ever the base name is Macedonia. There is nothing to negotiate. By simply getting into the negotiation it is basically admitting that the name is not yours. Macedonia should not accept any pressure from either the EU or the UN to change it's name. It is absurd and insulting to Macedonia and the Macedonians to accept any suggestions from Matthew Nimetz, probably one of the most incompetent "Diplomat" at the UN. Even when he became Cyrus Vance's deputy, another incompetent remnant of the Carter administration, did not accomplish [...]

Read the full comment anything. But for some reason these kind of people seem to keep their positions at the UN.
Bottom line is Macedonia keeps what is rightfully hers.

Probably to the great surprise of my old adversary "Greek Macedonia Supremacy", on this occasion I entirely agree with him !

On the one hand, Greece is in really deep sh*t economically and financially, on the other hand Macedonia (far smaller) is economically ok but still has Gruevski as its "Comical Ali" leader, plus the "diaspora" factor full of extremists. (Well, Greece has a few of those too, but let that pass for now...)

Meanwhile, the Turks (as always) are making threatening noises towards Greece. Doesn't help...

As [...]

Read the full comment GMS says, the international community needs to "bang heads together" and get a quick solution ASAP. Very probably along lines of "Republic of Northern Macedonia" for ALL purposes as regards Skopje, and telling Greece to abandon this abortive 17-year-old struggle on the other, and concentrate on its genuine and urgent economic problems.

(Also tell Skopje not to capitalise on Greece's current difficulties, which means probably getting rid of Gruevski down a dark hole somewhere. Also, a new Greek/Macedonian defence alliance against Turkey might not be a bad idea, also letting Macedonia into NATO. It won't harm Greece's military or domestic security interests at all.)

Anyway, GMS, that's my proposal. Hopefully not a thousand miles from yours....

Let is hope that both countries will be able to solve the name dispute. But if it is "the right time" or so, well I am not so sure. With Greece deep financial crisis and with an inflexible leader such as Gruevski, the actual configuration does not look really good. Also the problem of Fyrom's identity seems to be locked from both sides and it will be very difficult for them to meet halfway.

Only the international community can exert the necessary pressure to put an end to this long-time conflict.

It has been the right time to resolve this issue for the last (nearly) 20 years. Hardliners on both sides have impeded any compromise and our people have suffered as a result. The regional name of Macedonia belongs to all of us e.g. Bulgarians, Greeks, Vlachs, Romas, Albanians, and even our antiquisationists. It will take real leadership to broker an outcome which at best will temper a long lasting settlement or at worst have more of our people applying for refugee status in Brussels. The governments threats of holding a referendum will probably go ahead though to the surprise of [...]

Read the full comment the nationalists in the diaspora and at home the results will possibly be in the affirmative for progress. The nationalists have wasted no time protesting in the streets of skopje as we can see from the uni grounds. Thankfully they can only attract at the best of times only a few hundred tipsy flag wearing jerks, to the dissapointment of their organisers. The people of Macedonia are ready for concrete resolutions not jingoistic jibberish which continues to be peddled by our nationalistic diaspora in the streets of their host countries. Nimetz knows that our governments double name formula is dead and that the concept of a geographic qualifier e.g. Northern Macedonia (erge ommes)is the only negotiable prospect left for compromise. If this fails the people of regional Macedonia will all lose out, regardless whether they are Macedonians of Bulgarian, Greek, Vlach, Roma, or of Albanian ethnic background, even the antiquisationists will lose out. But in the end, it will be the antiquisationists who will be consequently blamed by many future generations, for their attempts to fabricate and steal other peoples history, whilst depriving truth and reality for all the Macedonian people regardless of ethnic origin.

Long Live Vasko Gligorov, the Macedonian Youth & SDSM.
Macedonia 4 ALL Macedonians of Bulgarian, Greek, Vlach, etc., ethnic backgrounds.

hey aussie. greece must give their province back to make a united macedonia.3 million macedonians live in greece. only a matter of time. also millions of vlach. albanian and turks. GREECE what are u scared of. you secret is out.

Just name yourself Central Balkan Republic and u please all the multi ethnicities that live in the state. Then they can call themselves Albanian Turk vlach serb Greek and SlavoMacedonian - that should be what the Greeks must impose. Just saying.