Turkey is not even part of Europe, their capital Ankara is in Anatolia (Aisa Minor), If Greece's airspace keeps been violated constantly then Greece should start shooting them down. The Aegean Sea belong to the Greeks, its borders is now part of the EU.

last Greece did not loose any territory Turkey did, Anatolian was not Greek gone by 1200 Ad Cyprus was not Greek territory either,we gain our independance in 1821,and 1912 we took Macedonia and east Thrace Greek territory tripple and the island by Turkey in 1946 ,so who lost ?Cyprus Greece did not got involve officially by orders of Kissinger and US goverment to save NATO and benefit Turkey for the bases by USSR very importan in 1974 was the cold war then.

Epaminoda was a theban genius general ,he wrote millitary technics books ,which are valid todays warfare,also Alexanders the great personal millitary instructor,for turkish my friend you use a special Greek ancient name ,i think you admire ancient Greek history,thats great.now about the Anatolian population theory,by the coast lines and the islands was Greek all the time as long history is written by Herodotos and Homer both anatolian natives.Romans did not lived in Anatolia ,hittites kapadokians frygians,lydians assyrrians going further east later armenians persians kurds .Turks appear in Anatolia by 1070 ad.and moved west up to Vienna in 400 years time [...]

Read the full comment span so buttom line is Greeks lived there and were force out by war ,which in my opinion does not justify owhership,only purhashing is the right way as Alaska from Russia, Luissiana from France paid in full by USA.thats why those Island are so close to turkey,and belong to Greece which will defent to the last man standing,economy does not efect the security of those islands they are fully millitirize because as you know in Ismir the Anatolian turkish army has many landing cratfs in their invetory.we dont need another Cyprus suprise.i hope peace is the best for both,i do know Turkey will not attack ,never did all four wars since 1821 Greece start the fight ,Cyprus is not Greek territory if was we will still be at war in ageansea and by Ebros river

dont chase them next time take them down .unless the turkish pilots cant follow GPS instruction ,then need to be train to stay in their territory.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

Peco.
You are Bulgaraki КОЙТО НЕ ПРИЗНАВА СВОЯТ КОРЕН НЯМА БЪДЕЩЕ. i have discussed with many your case and the had the answer from people in Florina "DIASPORA" AND TITO FANATIC WAS THEIR ANSWER.
Same crap all over again based on your own ontological bewilderings
and existence mishaps
once and for all peco the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

Otan teliossi o polemos, my friend as I stated bellow. But furthere to your claim on Obamas comment it never occurred.This is a continuation of the Greek propaganda my friend.You Greeks are after all the best in FABRICATION of events or history. I am not surprised by your comments,it is expected from you. Remember, Turkey was the second country that recognized the Republic of Macedonia after Bulgarias Zhelev did.Your story is for the ones who do not know the Balkans.

TO BC,Turkey can engulf Greece in hours not days. You remember 1974 with Cypros and the hunta? Greece could not go to war with Turkey because their ammunition crates were full of bricks. What a coincidence,today the money are missing again.Greece cannot even provide boots for their recruits. Austerity,he!

Odysseus - you are right to invoke the spirit of past Greek / Turkish wars, but if I recall correctly the Turks actually won the last two of them:

1919-22 (followed by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne which exchanged populations between Greece and Turkey, rather to Turkey's benefit), and also lost Smyrna/Izmir and Asia Minor to the Turks

1974 Cyprus / Kibris, only halted by UN intervention before Turkey successfully overran the whole island.

Not good precedents for saying "Beware of us Greeks". More of a good precedent [...]

Read the full comment for saying "Beware of us Turks"....

Yours neutrally (but I know whom I would back to win any war !)

BEWARE OF THE GREEKS !
When its time for WAR and the Greeks UNITE.
If your the enemy , you better turn around and start running !
Us GREEKS go WILD when we see the ENEMY !

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This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

cons
The greeks have hsve done ewerything possible, the Turks continue to fiddle their tune

Can't the "famed" Greeks somehow use their ingenuity to come to terms with the Turks?
I picture the day when Greek and Turkish fighter jets co-operate so well, that if, by chance a Turkish plane violates Greek airspace there won't be so much commotion about it.

Epamino!
i think that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
and definitely category error
who is speaking of Cyprus mate.
Cyprus a sovereign and personally i do not give a hoot about it
it has always been a pain in the a** for Greece.
it was not definetly the islands which we are refering to in the article and by the way i Wrote what a wrote as an answer to Zeko's nonsense most mildly put

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Scipio - in general you are (of course) right about most Greek islands (certainly Crete), but I'm not sure that Greek settlement on Cyprus took place anything like as early as on other offshore islands, not least because of the absence in Cyprus of artefacts from anything earlier than the Late Hellenistic Period.

Something of an agreed "timeline" of the various settlements in Cyprus would be genuinely helpful.

(If the UN Peacekeeping force in Nicosia/Lemesis had done this as a sideline, as opposed to 35 years of driving around in noisy Land [...]

Read the full comment Rovers and getting drunk every evening, that would have been a very useful way of using their expensive time ! But it didn't happen....)

Zeko
The Greeks were organized on those on those islamds when you Turks were'nt even organized as a race, nomadic tribes , mongoloids of turkic origin, nomadic people back in the steppes of central Asia.

Valeri - your point well taken about the distinction between "dominated" and "populated", but let's see how Kavacik answers my (hopefully) clear question about when the respective Greek and Turkish populations actually arrived ?

I must admit to having previously wondered (being a bit of an amateur archaeologist) why there were no equivalents in Cyprus to the Mycenean "tholos" tombs in Greece (c.1000 BC) or any architectural ruins from the Hellenic era 450-300 BC. There are indeed some Classical ruins near Limassol, but they are from a much later date.

And I [...]

Read the full comment would expect the "dominating" Egyptians of the 1450-710 BC period to have left some temples or gravesites behind them: this is something that the Egyptians did like Americans build McDonalds.

You certainly can't move in Luxor, for example, without bumping into a temple or three, or a Pharaoh's grave or six, while around Cairo you simply can't move for pyramids (also you are surrounded by unhealthy camels offering rides at vastly inflated prices, but then we can't have everything.)

How bout this article shows how many GREEK jets passed on TURKISH territory, the greeks should not cry because turks are "invading" their air space, you greeks should be grateful the Turks gave you those little islands on the aegean back or else they would be apart of the Republic of Turkey.

In other words Turks have every right to go past those islands and even Greece because those lands used to be apart of the Osmanli Empire

Let's be careful though.
Even Kavacik uses the word "dominated", which is very different from "populated".

In an island population make up, usually tends to remain more static, unlike that of an ill defined territory such as ancient Macedonia.
The original people there, were probably Helenized many centuries before the various dominations.
That said, the Turks have ever right to live there if they've been there for generations.

Kavacik - many thanks for the chronology / timeline. Just three factual questions:

(a) when did the Greek population largely arrive ? ( under the Byzantines would be my guess, but I could be wrong !)

(b) similarly, when did the Turkish population largely arrive ? (again I would guess under the Ottomans, but I could again be wrong)

(c) what happened to the previous inhabitants in each case ( presumably the Ptolemaic / Roman citizens who were neither Greeks nor Turks ?)

I [...]

Read the full comment must admit to having seen no Egyptian, Ptolemaic, or Roman ruins in Cyprus at all myself, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough !

Lets look into chronological history of Cyprus and then decide what is Cyprus and what is not?
( 1 ) 1450 BC - 710 BC -Cyprus was dominated by the Egyptians. ( 2 ) 710 BC - 525 BC –by Assyrians. ( 3 ) 525 BC - 294 BC –by Persians. (4 ) 294 BC –Ptolemaic Period. (5,) 58 BC - AD 395 - by Roman Empire. ( 6 ) AD 395 - AD 1191 – With the division of the Roman Empire Cyprus becomes part of Byzantine Empire. ( 7 ) 1192 – 1489 – by the [...]

Read the full comment Lusignans. ( 8 ) 1489 – 1571 – by Venetians. (9 ) 1571- 1878 – by the Ottomans. ( 10 ) 1878 – 1914 – Cyprus was leased to Britain under the defensive alliance. (10) 1878 – 1914 – Cyprus was leased to Britain under the defensive alliance. (11) 1914 – British unilaterally annexed the island. ( 12 ) 1924 – Cyprus becomes Crown Colony. (13) 1955 – Greek and the Greek Cypriot terrorist organization “ EOKA” revolts against British and Cypriot Turks. ( 14 ) 1960 – Cyprus becomes independent country under the Treaty of Guarantee. London and Zurich Partnership Agreements signed by British, Turkish and Greek Cypriots creating the independent Republic of Cyprus. (15) 1963 - The Republic was overthrown and the Greek Cypriots “ AKRITAS PLAN “ was implemented to annihilate the Turkish Cypriot Community.
( 16 ) 1974 - Mainland Greek officers of the Greek Cypriot National Guard launched a Coup d’etat against the Makarios government and installed a former “ EOKA “ member, Nikos Sampson, in his place. His political slogan was to exterminate all Turkish Cypriots and realize his dream of “ ENOSIS” which means to become one with mainland Greece.
(17) 20-22 July 1974 – Turkish army launched the peace operation in Cyprus under the TREATY of GUARANTEE, and on 14 August 1974 in Geneva Turkey, Greece and British recognized the existence of two autonomous administrations in Cyprus.
Some of you might think, that the Turkish people will abandon their Turkish cognates in Cyprus, but that will never happened because They are more important to every Turkish soul than joining European Union.

I'm not sure who Nikolas is trying to be rude to (though he is probably offending everybody), but I do agree with Greek Macedonia Supremacy that Turkey probably has a hidden agenda involving the Generals, and that as regards Cyprus / Kibris this involves permanent partition of the island.

Sad, but true.

In 1974, Germany was divided but Cyprus united.

Now in 2010, Germany is united, but Cyprus divided.

Do we really make progress ?

Plus ca change, plus c'est [...]

Read the full comment la meme chose....

I think the main problem is the "armless position" of Erdogan. He has good will to improve the Greek-turkish relations, - or at least he is trying to show it for "diplomatic games" purposes. But let is say it in simple words: what can a country do when its people do not have the power?
Turkey cannot do the necessary HUGE reforms or concessions it needs to enter the EU without the approval of the Generals.

What is going on with the Cyprus issue these days? Turkey and the Generals do not want to [...]

Read the full comment settle the reunification of Cyprus. Turkish diplomatis say they want a solution, but in fact not. What they are trying to achieve is a definitive partition with the greek side as responsible of it (just like in 2004), so the turkish cypriot pseudo-state can start to be recognized by other countries - and at the same time - to enter the EU.

These are just diplomatic chess, like the jet fights...

1-----"This is not a trivial local issue: this is islamonazi aggression".

"The Turks are testing the boundaries of the West."


1, firt off get your pathetic little brain to understand straight facts, there is no such thing as a "nazi muslim" and Turks are a secular nation of people, they have never done acts of aggression towards showing off the religon of Islam, though when it comes with Nationalism and Turks thats a whole other issue.

And second, Turkey is highly diplomatic with the west as [...]

Read the full comment it possibly can, even though the idiot Recep Erdogan is trying to show hes a "good muslim" by thrashing Israel and being buddys with Arabs and Iranians of the middle east.

If theres a group of people you want to bash on about Islamic terrorism then you should choose the Arabs.

This is not a trivial local issue: this is islamonazi aggression.

The Turks are testing the boundaries of the West.

Agreed entirely, but the ICJ can take a very long time (up to four years to deliver a verdict !)

Could not NATO be a much quicker means of arbitration - after all, Greece and Turkey are both member-nations of NATO ? If NATO can't even arbitrate, why be a member of it ? (Except to go on very expensive and enjoyable conferences in Oberammagau conference centre in Germany / Austria, which exists on NATO money. Oops, have I revealed a secret ?)

Agreed, Scipio Africanus. This pseudo-war is a waste of time and energy. The intention from Turkey is clearly to create an "Aegean issue", so Greece would be willing to compromise about the sea borders problem at the end. But Greece is not blind and knows that it will win if the issue goes to the ICJ. And that does not satisfy Turkey obviously, since some precious territory would be retrocede to Greece...

with the following
<<< NATO indeed says that the Greek Air Force is about the one good thing about Greece's defences , but neither Greece nor Turkey needs to "show off" quite so often. >>>
stated by Epami
I completely agree as i do with Valeri in part humoristic approach

I would urge the generals in Turkey to find a more positive way of distracting the turkish people
just think of the kerosene you spend .

This is all a bit of big boys playing with Big Boys' Toys - NATO indeed says that the Greek Air Force is about the one good thing about Greece's defences, but neither Greece nor Turkey needs to "show off" quite so often.

Valeri has a point - maybe strafing the Greek blockading tractors on the Bulgarian border might be a bit extreme, but how about a series of low-level passes at about 100 metres altitude or so ? Good pilots can manage this perfectly well, and the decibel effect on the farmers (>180 dB) would [...]

Read the full comment "encourage" them to take their tractors elsewhere rather quickly. (140 db is the threshold of pain and 180 dB the threshold of permanent deafness !) Europe would applaud, and Bulgaria would be very grateful.

Nothing new here just another classic Turko Greeko dogfight

Kavacik,
tell your people to make themselves useful... instead of just flying around pissing off the Greeks pointlessly, the least they can do is bomb those god damned tractors on the border...
We'll support you for the EU;)))

One hand the boarder between Bulgaria is blocked by the Greek farmers, and on the other hand the economy is hanging in by very thin tread, and any moment can crush. The newly elected government has no clue how to deal with the economic situation in the country, and in order to deflect the peoples mines from the economic chaos of the country, as usual Greeks conveniently blame Turkish air force for violating their air space around those tiny islands in Aegean sea. AND THEN THEY STRESS THIS GREEK PRIDE, OUR AIR FORCE PLANES CHASED WAY THE TURKISH PLANES, APPLAUSE, [...]

Read the full comment APPLAUSE!!!!!!!

This shows that Turkey cannot be a worthtrusty member of EU. It has no respect for its neighbours and is the master of the provocation and the violation. So TURKEY = NO EU

Aegean dispute is sucking out our time and jet fuel once again.