K.NOUS
The Urheimat ( primeval home) theory states that since people of Turkic background range from Siberia, across Central Asia, to Eastern Europe. Presently, the largest groups of Turkic people live throughout Central Asia—Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, and Turkey in Asia minor then the finno-ungric hypotheses is not valid .
Some linguists have proposed a relationship between the Finno-Ugrian and Indo-European language families, but it seems more probable that the Indo-Europeans are simply our old neighbours
Many other hypotheses have also been proposed Uralo-Altaic , Finno-Basque, Hungaro-Sumerian etc. The Ural-Altaic hypothesis still survives [...]

Read the full comment in some parts of the world as a common belief that "Finnish and Turkish are related". the similarities between Finnish and Turkish (or other Turkic or "Altaic" languages) are of a typological character: these languages belong to the same type. The basic vocabulary in these languages is quite different and does not allow for the reconstruction of a common proto-language. Besides, the existence of the "Altaic" language family (Turkic, Mongolic and Tungusic languages, perhaps also Korean) is also doubted.
Although not genetically related, Turkish does have some connections with the Finno-Ugrian languages. Some FU languages spoken in Central Russia and Western Siberia have been influenced by the neighbouring Turkic languages, and Hungarian has many layers of loanwords adopted from different Turkic-speaking tribes.
One thing is loanwords and another basic vocabulary similarities which can lead to reconstruction of a common proto-language.
Good political try anyhow to prove that the Turkish language hopefully has relations with some modern Finnish and Hungarian , European languages that must have been in the mind of Mustafa Kemal when he abolished the Arabo-persian script and adopted the Latin alphabet for his secular state.
.

With respect, Aries, Turkish is regarded by professional linguists as being part of the << Finno-Ugrian >> linguistic group, which includes Hungarian, Finnish, Estonian, and Turkish (also a couple of minority languages in the former USSR.)

It has nothing at all to do with Arabic, even if it used the Arabic alphabet until 1921 and Ataturk's reforms.

Similarly, the Mongolian language still uses the Russian Cyrillic alphabet, even though the Russian and Mongol languages have nothing whatsoever in common !

(If bored in an international conference, it is [...]

Read the full comment always entertaining to pass to the Russian interpreters a document written in Mongolian Cyrillic ! It usually takes them ten minutes to react ! Quite irresponsible of me to put this point, of course....)

Turk from Istambul.
People of Turkic background range from Siberia, across Central Asia, to Eastern Europe. Presently, the largest groups of Turkic people live throughout Central Asia—Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, and Turkey in Asia minor.
the above are grouped into six branches: the Oghuz Turks, Kipchak, Karluk, Siberian, Chuvash, and Sakha or Yakut branches.
The oldest records of written Turkic are the Orhon inscriptions, found in the Orhon River valley in central Mongolia and dating to the 8th century. Subsequent to this period, between the 9th and 11th centuries,
Among the [...]

Read the full comment nomadic Turkic peoples of Central Asia rose a tradition of oral epics such as the Book of Dede Korkut of the Oghuz Turks which are the linguistic and cultural ancestors of the modern Turkish people and the Manas epic of the Kyrgyz people.
The Oghuz are named Western Turks, the five other, in the scheme, are called Eastern Turks.
Turkish: Osmanlıca or Osmanlı Türkçesi, Ottoman Turkish in Arabic‎ lisan el Osmani is the variety of the Turkish language that was used as the administrative and literary language of the Ottoman Empire. It contains extensive borrowings from Arabic and Persian languages and was written in a variant of the Perso-Arabic script.
The Ottoman Turkish language, which forms the basis of much of the written corpus, was influenced by Persian and Arabic and used a variant of the Perso-Arabic script.
Thanks a lot for reading.

Turk in Istanbul,
the main reason the Ottomans didn't force us to convert and change was the so called "gyaur tax". (I am sure misspelled).
Christians and non Turks were subject to heavy taxation in goods and children actually, for the Janissar units.

History tends to be ironic. I agree that Russia would've sofocated us with her embrace. It's also true that the Janissars turn out to be the main destabilizing force in the Ottoman empire, for their own selfish reasons, and contributed greately to her demise.
There are stronger [...]

Read the full comment pressures to erase Bulgarian indentity in todays FYROM than there was in the Ottoman days, but that's because our language and cultures are too close for their comfort.
Not the case with the Turks.

Turk,
I agree that we are all sinners.
I think you should differentiate between "lament" and "blame" though.
Some of us blame, but many of us don't.
The players are all dead by now, so blame can only be directed against folks that had nothing to do with it, like yourself, and how useful is that...
To quote Cicero for the second time here:
" Virtue is reason, fully developed"..

Aries, the Ottomans had culture! They were plenty civilised. They propagated a culture and civilization that was a combination of Turkic, Chinese, Iranic, Arabic and Greek and added to it as the Empire grew. There is nothing wrong with that. They didn't manage one of the largest Empires in history because they lacked culture and civility. Your post is misleading. Plus you have taken my focus on military might and turned it into Frankenstein. The Balkans need to get over "it's because of the Turk" mentality and face up to their own shortcomings. Stop the blame game, and if you [...]

Read the full comment can't, then expose yourself also. We are all sinners not saints!

Ariel

"The language which you used until Ataturk is a dialect of Arabic (if not Full Arabic) with
script full arabic alphabet"

Ataturk only changed the alphabet not the language itself. It is very stupid of you to suggest that a dialect of Arabic has become a language that is gramatically similiar to Hungarian and Finnish in a mater of 50 years. Turkish has many french, arabic, and persion words in use today even though we tried to clear our language from foreign words as Bulgarians tried to clean theirs [...]

Read the full comment from Turkish ones with not much success!

Go and read yourself on internet where Turkish language comes from and if it is similiar to Arabic or not! And dont make stupid comments like this!

For your information: Gokturkish alphabet was in use before arabic alphabet was adobted by Turks as Islam was accepted...

Another info you may not like!: Sarma (or Sarmi) happens to be top food in Bulgaria and Serbia as well other Balkan countries. Sarma means rolling in Turkish and it is gramatically and sound wise a Turkish word indeed nothing to do with any other language! keep eating it is delicious without acknowledging who taught you that moron unless you claim you came up with it and gave it a Turkish name without knowing what it means!!

Turk in Ausrtralia
First of all miltary power does not mean better civilization my friend.
Please name an edifice of civilization Turks left behind
apart of some Mosques which many
of them were built oon older temples. The language which you used until Ataturk is a dialect of Arabic (if not Full Arabic) with
script full arabic alphabet
Your flag ressembles a lot the Trebizond Empire banner except for the star next to the crescent.
The Blue Mosque is a copy of the
Byzantine [...]

Read the full comment Aghia Sofia.
the only i agree with you is about the so called West
It was the West thru its Crusades
and Venitians with the blessings of the Popes weakened Byzantium so as to fall therefore you should
praise the West.

Once a well educatated none currupted Bulgarian diplomat told me (hard to find by the way):

"I would argue that Bulgarians were lucky to be under Ottomans rather than Russians at the time as Ottomans promoted family values and brought good food into our culture and did not do that much to change our religion and language whereas Russians made pretty much everthing possible to destruct your own identity"

Like it or not if you are a Bulgarian and If you do not like your slavic brothers Russians, which i believe is [...]

Read the full comment the case for most Bulgarians, even though Russians have won you your independence from Ottomans and they are also Christian-Ortodox, this is thanks to Ottomans :)

History is a bitch and is played on by fanatics on all sides.

Thanks for the progressive thinkers who try to solve problems and not cause them.

Turk,
I don't think I missed your point at all. I think that the West is very evil and selfish. I also don't think that superiority is only a military term. Frankly the Ottomans may have won their wars and taken over the Balkans, yet besides Islam they didn't even bring anything of substance with them. Superior culture is the one everyone aspires to resemble..
I have a very close friend of mine from Istanbul, whom discussing the Ottomans once said: "They called us 'The Sick man of Europe'! Sick OK, but of Europe"!!
[...]

Read the full comment I laughed so hard, but this does illustrate that Turks generally want to see themselves as part of the Western Civilization. That said, I do feel for Turkey in that she is truly distrusted by the Muddle Easterners and considered European. She is also distrusted and feared in Europe and considered Middle Eastern, mostly because of Islam, not because of culture as much. So it's a difficult place, but Turkey is a youthful and resilient country that is on its way up.

Turk, if you travel through the Balkans, you can almost see where the border between Austro-Hungary and that of the Ottoman realm was.
Frankly Serbia, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania Albania and Greece are not as clean and organized as Croatia and Slovenia. Even the Transilvanian part of Romania is better looking from the southeastern part which was under the Ottomans. The Western parts of Greece that stayed under Western control are not nearly as messy as the eastern parts too. Culture is hard to change. I am not blaming any one. It's our fault, yet popular mentality is a very large ship to turn around. Even the homeless dogs on the streets are Ottoman heritage. Didn't one of your Sultan once put all of Istanbul's dogs on an island near the city because he got tired of them? When I read that it really made me see the similarities.

There is a reason to lament alright, though it really is like crying over spilled milk and asking for compensation is pretty ridiculous. Very few intelligent Bulgarians will understand that.. probably some internal points or something.

BTW I've promised my Turkish friend to come and see his new home and baby in the spring so we are heading to Istanbul with the family. Fascinating city!

What about the Slav displacement of the Tatar people and the devastation of Central Asia the list endless the Bulgarians should foot the bill as they are Slavs

Ahh Valeri, you really did your best to miss my point didn't you. Even though my post wasn't directed at you, I will try and expand on it nevertheless. You see, Bulgarians who are simply bitching about lost opportunities to be a part of the mighty group within the Western family of nations need to appreciate that these countries were responsible for or involved in wars and conflict from the most ancient of times. The West has a habit of playing good guy when it has achieved peace and prosperity for itself - in many cases it has left everyone [...]

Read the full comment else burring and in ruin. People judge the Ottomans with today's privileged eyes and condemn their existence - barbarians, thieves, murderers blah blah blah. But when the traditional powers that make up the West get examined, their bloodied past is ignored or acceptable - as you say due to a superior culture . Just examining the economics of the last 500 years provides plenty of information into how and why they became superior. You tell me to face it regarding Western Superiority. But there cannot be a mentality of superiority for the West on one hand and the hatred, accusations and grievances for the Ottomans on the other. Why? Because when taking over the Balkans, the Ottomans were the superior ones. The simple reason why the West eventually flourished is English and Latin adventures further West. Their conquests allowed them to fund advancement whilst the Ottomans could not afford further expansion due to being located in the middle of the known world. Anyhoo, you can lament 500 years of Ottoman rule and equate it to a simple "we missed the boat" all you like. But what your brothers and sisters need to face is that Bulgaria was thoroughly conquered by a superior civilization at the time. I'm not interested in striking at anyone's honour, but there seems to be a misconception that back then, if everyone was given the same opportunities, they'd all be equivalent to England, France or the USA today. The EU has only over the last 20 years been able to push the notion of being homogenous - yet 60 years ago they all hated each other. So this Western brotherhood is really overrated. Btw, it's interesting that you think I live my life as a Westerner Down Under, yet your brethren all over Europe think my kin aren't Western enough - so is this some sort of insight into the xenophobia from the side you play for?

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

Kavacik:

"Bulgarian fellow commentators, when you're making a comments on a sign document between two countries try to make your comments on its merits, not based on your chauvinistic views."

No Kavacik, this is the internet! There is no empty chauvinism on the internet! Don't know what you are talking about.;) BTW I don't blame modern Turks for anything, just as I am not taking responsibility for Mr. "ay siktir" there... it takes all kinds.

The Turk in Australia is interesting:

"... Africans, Middle Easterners, South East Asians, Aboriginal-Australians, Polonesians .."
So you are now making yourself at home in what the Christians stole from the Aborigines?

Look, the West won because western culture is superior. Face it. Not nicer, just superior. All you have to do is look at what's happening all over the Muslim world and you understand why we lament wasting those 500 years...
I bet you live your life as a westerner Down Under too. No fez, one wife [...]

Read the full comment which you married by her choice too? BTW don't spit on people - very un-western;)

As they say " old habits die hard" the minister without portfolio Bojidar Dimitrov with his communist upbringing once again made a mockery of the country in front of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if he is ousted from his post. ---There is no need for the minister to play hard ball, it is simple question, If any Bulgarian citizen has the land registry documents for the properties left behind in Turkey can easily apply to the courts in Turkey and the minister's job should be to direct these people to the right places to recover their lost property.----- [...]

Read the full comment I would like to say to my Bulgarian fellow commentators, when you're making a comments on a sign document between two countries try to make your comments on its merits, not based on your chauvinistic views.

I actually agree with Turkish citizen.
No ideal what our government is trying to pull off, but there doesn't seem to be any logic here.
May be some internal points but I can't see them right now..
Just like in BG though, for every smart Turk there is a crazy one...

Many bulgars were killed by otomans?? SHOW me the evidence proof scrolls that people were killed by turks. These are just assumptions

To all turks on this site
Ay siktyr........

Dark Ages!??? WHAT!!!!!!
This is what englightened Christian Europe did to bankroll its advancement. It killed Native Americans (North & South), Africans, Middle Easterners, South East Asians, Aboriginal-Australians, Polonesians and even themselves. I wish Bulgaria was a part of that Europe so I can spit on them!

"Ottoman" you know what you are right!

We do get these morons once a while in our country as well! they have nothing else achived in their lifes but still so proud of an Empire they have never lived in! Their knowledge on Ottomans i believe is limited to reading a corrupted one sided primary school book!

Turkey is here, near by the Bulgaria..if you are powerful enough, come here and get money.. if you are not powerful, just shut up! as you did 500 years during the OTTOMAN EMPIRE :)

Guys :) I will try to keep it short and will try to represent here the Turkish view from Istanbul. I believe you guys deserve to know what we think. I am indeed a Turkish citizen and blood wise I am more likely to be Turkish than not. I read all the comments here so far before making mine.

First I will start on the hatred displayed by some here:

- No empire was every good to people, including their own in most cases, so the Ottomans!

- [...]

Read the full comment Most Turks today do not feel attached to the Ottomans apart from the ones that support Turkish Nationalist party representing around 10-15% of the Turkish population at most!

- Most Turks like people from Balkans including Greeks as we are very similar in many ways due to living together during Ottoman times, like it or not!

- I know in person that Bulgarians these days enjoy Turkish soap operas more than any other television program  does this tell you something?

To sum up on this front! Get over the past! Hating each other will not bring any good to anyone. But economic corporation on contrary do can achieve betting living standards for all if our governments are less corrupted. This cooperation does already exist at some level to my knowledge between Turkey, Bulgaria, and Greece at least. On the topic of Bulgarians asking for certain amount of money for compensation and threatening to turn against Turks on their support towards Turkey joining EU if not paid:

-I am not going to discuss who is right or wrong and if this money should be paid or not. B/c I do not know and I do not have the time to read the entire treaty!

- Turkey is not joining EU ever when you have most EU countries against you, which may or may not be understandable to us! Especially France and Cyprus are totally against it and this is not likely to change! So Bulgarian politicians be my guest to turn against us as well as you will make a big difference in any case!

-And to pay $10 billion to get the support of Bulgaria on something that will never happen does sound quite stupid. And you guys will have the privilege to see if your politicians can profit from this or not

This compensation claim is likely to damage relations between Turkey and Bulgaria, and I assure you it will not achieve much for the Bulgarians apart from less number of Turkish companies investing in Bulgaria!!

The only good thing about this article is; gives you a chance to express your hate against the Turks. The provisions of the Ankara treaty of 1925 are very clear. The PROTOCOL
ANNEXED TO THE TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN BULGARIA AND TURKEY stipulates in paragraphs "C and D" as follows :
C.Immovable property of every kind belonging to Bulgarians whose country of origin was the European territory of the Turkish Republic, the city of Constantinople being excepted, who, subsequent to October 5 – 18, 1912, and previous to the signature of the present Protocol have immigrated [...]

Read the full comment to Bulgaria, and immovable property of every kind belonging to Muslims whose countries of origin were the territories detached from the Ottoman Empire as a result of the Balkan war, and who, subsequent to October 5 – 18, 1912, and previous to the signature of the present Protocol have immigrated to Turkey, shall pass respectively into the possession of the State in whose territory they are situated.

D.
Immovable property of every kind situated in Bulgaria and belonging to Turkish nationals, or situated in Turkey and belonging to Bulgarian nationals, to which the provisions of the preceding Article do not apply shall, if their lawful owners are not at present in possession, be restored to the latter, their heirs and assigns or agents. All extraordinary measures and provisions which may, for any reason whatever, have been applied to the property in question shall be rescinded as soon as the present Protocol comes into force.
Things are more complicated than you guys might thing. The fact of the matter is: the blackmailing tactics of the Bulgarian government will never work.

Perhaps underestimating was the wrong word.

Keeping anyone "there" will be hard in the future. Not too long a go many in the EU wanted (and still wish) to keep BG "there" as if we would go away.
The difference of course is that this is your country's negative experience vs their basic dislike of us, but the fact is that the Turks haven't been bad neighbors from our POV.
Of course we don't have an outstanding issue with them like you do with Cyprus, but the negative feelings are with us [...]

Read the full comment still...

Valeri.
Nobody underestimates them on no occasion just keep them there.

John k
wise guy have you ever heard of the expression
"all brawn and no brains"
could you not with your powerfull brain make it up you idiot from a typo

We talk about the European Union so there can never be a Turkey in the EU Even if they were Christian they are non European. And moreover their population is far to big. 1/3rd of the city of Almelo in Holland is already Muslim. If we want to avoid problems Turkey should not only stay out of the EU PLEASE LET THEM ALL GO HOME TO TURKEY. At this moment I still live in Holland but plan to move to Bulgaria. I can not speak for Bulgarians but I know how the Dutch feel.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

John:

"Bulgaria is one of those silly little countries that has a long list of claims agaist other countries that the Bulgarians felt have screwed them over the past couple of centuries and wants to use the EU to get leverage."

Sure but that's natural. BG is doing what any normal government would do - look after the interests of the country, the way they see them, and often that implies getting some cash from abroad. When it comes to nationalism the Brits own the field in the EU. We don't even [...]

Read the full comment come close.

At the Berlin congress we were not cheated, but stabbed in the back by our Christian fellows the Brits (well the Jew Disraili but that would be anti-Semitic). The country that was really cheated was Turkey, because Britain took Cyprus in exchange for their "support" and proceeded to dismember her in the following years.

All the things you mention are true but not excuses. Just reality. Many countries joined Hitler for the same reasons, including some principle EU countries, so there is no need for excuses here is there;)

What the heck is a "bully big braw"? I'm a native speaker, but I don't recognize that.

When Bulgaria and Turkey were alliee during World War One were the Bulgarians asking the Turks for compensation then? I'm betting they were keeping pretty quiet about the subject with their friends the Turks. Dosen't Greece owe Bulgaria similar compensation fir loss of territory and the relocation of Bulgarians from Thrace after the end of the First World War? Bulgaria is one of those silly little countries that has a long list of claims agaist other countries that the [...]

Read the full comment Bulgarians felt have screwed them over the past couple of centuries and wants to use the EU to get leverage. This is Bulgaria's only hope because no one is going to pay any attention to them otehrwise. Just wait until the day come when Serbia is up for membership in the EU. The gang in Sofia is going to have a list of gripes as long as your arm against the Serbs. If you listen to Bulgarian nationalists it actually amusing to here them rant on about how badly Bulgaria has been treated: "We were lied to at the Treaty of San Stafano, we were cheated at the Congress of Berlin,
we were short changed during the First Balkan War, we were ganged up on during the Second Balkan War, the Treaty of Neuilly-sur-Seine was too harsh and destroyed our nation, we were forced to side with Hitler and become German allies...The list of excuses goes on an on!

In the comment i wanted to write there must be a common front against Turkey!!sorry for this mistake!!Well done again for this!!You make all the balkans and all the people who suffered for so many centuries from the Turks reall proud!!

Bravo to Bulgaria,all the balkans must follow this examble.Its time for this people to pay for the crimes they did.There must be a common front against Bulgaria regarding this issues,and i beleive that this will happen.Btw i think its stupid anymore to talk about Turkey and EU there is no point really honestly,there never was.

Bulgaria should not ask for money. Everybody knows that this will disapear in somebody's pocket, like the 14 B Euro from the EU.

Turkey should offer to build the Bulgarian road infrastructure!

Bulgarian citizens will be greatfull to Turkey, because they will do what their own politicians could not do during the past 20 years, and maybe they will forget the bad things from the past, and start to see the Turkish as their saviours.

The Turkish economy will do well. Their construction companies will put a foot [...]

Read the full comment in their neighbour country, expand their market, and easily eliminate their BG competitors for the next 50 years.

to john k.
Just a bully big braw and no brain

Valeri.
I am sorry i too have nothing against the people of turkey as individuals
But I cannot forgive what the ottomans have done to the Balkans as a whole the biggest crime comitted apart the genocides
was the dark ages over the Balkans when the rest of Europe was enjoying the Rennaisance and the
bad effects it had on the collective consciousness of the people, of course the trojan horse
was the 4th Crusade with the blessings of pepe Innocent.
500-100 = 400 years in the red. [...]

Read the full comment


5000

Compenstaion from Turkey? Correct me if I am wrong but Bulgaria lost that war, of course with the exception of the First Balkan War Bulgaria has lost all it's wars, so why are the Turks on the hook for 14 billion Euros for forcing relocating the losers of the conflict to get out? The trick for Bulgaria would have been to have won a couple of wars, then you would not have to worry about being treated so badly in the outcome.

Can't blame a government for trying to make a buck.
I actually don't think it's worth ruining relations with Turkey but alas...
Frankly if Turkey becomes a EU member Bad Turk may have legal grounds for reclaiming land if he has some documentation.. that may be a problem too because much has changed since and few have ever imagined reincorporating, which is what Turkey in the EU will actually mean.

You know Koinos I find it ironic that on personal level, the Turks, albeit nationalistic, are probably the least hateful to others [...]

Read the full comment in the neighborhood and are, for the most part, naively unaware of the universal hatred towards them from pretty much every side.
Can't tell you how many times I get a joyful reaction from one of them around the world, upon finding out that I am Bulgarian - sometimes I feel like asking: what's with the grin? Don't you know that I am supposed to hate you?


I think it's time to shake our historic beef with a country which hasn't done anything against us in the last 100 years,
I say 100 years is the cut off date for hate! Who votes for that?

the turkey make the most big genocide in world!!!!2.000.000 armenian die by turks!500.000 greece pontius dies 1922 by turks!!!40.000 kurds dies 1980-2009 by turks!!1.600 greece cyprus die 1974 by turks!!!is time too pay!!!!!!bravo bulgaria!!!!!

"My family was forced to leave Bulgary in early 1900s. Is Bulgaria going to return my family's land and properties? This claim is just ridiculous".

here, you just answered your own question - your family had no business in Bulgaria in the first place. Good riddance, and stay out!

14 billion euro for 500 years of dark ages?

how about, 1 million for each Bulgarian citizen cash, and 500 billion to the state?

i would then accept turkey with open arms

My family was forced to leave Bulgary in early 1900s. Is Bulgaria going to return my family's land and properties? This claim is just ridiculous.

I am afraid that - technically - Bulgaria is quite right.

But a Pandora's Box it is. Greece can also re-open similar claims, as can even Republic of Macedonia.

I am afraid that Bulgaria is openning the box of Pandora with that case.
Getting EU membership is getting more and more difficult as the bloc becomes bigger and bigger

500 years enough of that