Tue, Feb 07 2012
Serbian foreign minister Vuk Jeremic.
Macedonian prime minister Gruevski urges his Greek counterpart Papandreou not to veto Skopje’s EU hopes, while Papandreou expresses determination that a solution to the ‘name dispute’ should be achieved.
Politicians in Macedonia skeptical that the November 27 2009 meeting between the Greek and Macedonian prime ministers will produce real progress towards resolving the name dispute, while Athens underlines its stance that Macedonia’s EU hopes will be stifled until the standoff is solved.
Media reports say that the EU will pressure Athens and Skopje to come up with a solution to the Macedonia name dispute by December 7, or Brussels will take a cooler approach to Macedonia’s EU hopes; while a row breaks out in Belgrade after Serbia’s foreign minister takes sides in the dispute.
Bulgarian PM Boiko Borissov and visiting Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski agree that their countries’ relations are ‘friendly and fraternal’ but Borissov warns that Sofia’s support for Skopje depends on Macedonia keeping to the rules of good neighbourliness.
With Bulgaria angered by what it sees as Macedonia’s territorial claims, some say that Sofia should use EU membership hopes as leverage against Skopje; but minister for Bulgarians abroad Bozhidar Dimitrov says Macedonia’s elite does not really want the country in the EU.
Greek prime minister George Papandreou and his Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski met for more than an hour in Brussels, agreeing that it was essential to find a solution to the dispute over the name Macedonia.
Warnings on harsh winter weather situations in Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and some parts of Montenegro and Croatia.
Statement on review of Romania’s economic programme released on February 6, coinciding with the resignation of prime minister Emil Boc
Elsewhere in South Eastern Europe, Romania has declared Code Orange in 19 counties, while southern Greece has seen severe flooding.
After weeks of anti-austerity protests, February 6 saw Boc step down, saying he wanted to defuse political and social tension in Romania.
Electricity was cut off in many snow-bound places across Europe. The Siberian cold front that has much of Europe in its grip is expected to ease next week.
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language
Peter - actually (on a point of slightly important detail) the Argentinians speak Spanish and not Portuguese, and the Poles speak Polish , not "slavic". Also they are called "Polacy" (pronounced Polatsi) and not "Polacks".
Glad to be of linguistic help
To Makedonia always greece.Just a point of interest.Tito was not even conceived,not even his grandparents were borne when Macedonia existed.Macedonia exists and its language for centuries.My friend,just take a look at your history,you exist as of 1829,NOT BEFORE,do you understand?The Greek politics will sink you people in disgrace for being the "Best in fabrication of history"Congratulations!
makedonia always greece,are you from a different planet?You are contradicting yourself my friend.I am Macedonian by ethnicity,my language is slavic,dont you know the differance?OK,I will give you some examples;Argentinians speak Portuguese,what are they called?Answer,Argentinians.The Americans speak English,what are they?Answer,Americans.The Poles speak slavic,what are they?Polacks.I dont think you need more examples.If you dont undersrand this,youll never be able to tell the differance anyway.I have tried to help you so you dont lokk as ridicolouse as you seam to be.I cant help you.
too peter, you thing you are makedonian???????????????how?by tito propaganda,by fyrom books?or what???
too peter,you speak slavic dialect and you say this is makedonian,you are slavic nation and you say you are makedonian!!!!!makedonian and slavs is total difrent by surius historic and not by fyrom book!!!!!!!be prout like your realy nation (slavs)and stop thing all world is idiot like you too believe your propaganda!!!!!stop steal the greece history,stop propaganda by cumunist tito,stop lies.be prout like slavs.makedonian you born and you born slavs,look the future,or stay with propaganda.you born with propaganda and you die with propaganda.the makedonian speak greece,have greece name,the old makedonian coin have greece word,so stop thing we are idiot too believe [...]
Read the full comment your mythos.
Shasha,I am not surprised by your comment,and you know why?You are not a Macedonian.The likes of Crvenkovskis and Frckovskis are the enemy of the Macedonian people. I dont like to dwell on the past,but people like yourselfs who claim Macedonia is Greek or Bulgarian it is ABSURD! Do you think,we dont know who we are,or you in reality dont know who you are by constant claims of the Macedonians are Greek or Bulgarian.When one makes a claim that the Macedonians are Greek or Bulgarian as you constantly do,do you think I give a shitt what you think?I am Macedonian,no more [...]
Read the full comment no less!.
we have the history you have the propaganda.shame too neonazi fyrom.
Peter, Peter, Peter it sounds like your diaspora background is coming through. Get over your fabricated antiquisation crap and focus on our proper forefathers like Delchev, Karev, Sarafov, and Gruev to name a few. Grow up my diaspora friend as long as you follow this Al. Veliki crap you embarass us here in Macedonia. Who cares what was found in ancient times and what good is it today if the majority of our people here can't even find work to feed themselves and their families. So many of Macedonia's people have been divided on this issue so think before you [...]
Read the full comment write, think about us your macedonian brothers proud of our Slavic forefathers like Gotse, Dame, and Yane. To recall ancient crap which does not apply to us is like saying you invented the wheel. Peter you betray the Youth of Macedonia only so as to inflate your own self prestige in a world that doesn't give 2 drops of blood whether you are a Slav or a Greek. The diaspora keep you brainwashed from the inside while many in Macedonia keep you at arms length knowing the type of hypocrites you are. You convince people with money and as always those in most need will take it of you, but how long can you keep corrupting our people. You are certainly doomed to fail together with Gruevski you will be kissing SDSM's left hand for years to come.
Macedonia 4 the Macedonian YOUTH forever.
May the diaspora burn in their canadian, australian, and usa holes and never return to our beautiful country they so eagerly deserted.
peter if you are macedonian tell me what means macedonia please?????
To Panagiote Dakoglou;The ancient findins in Greece are found in Macedonia,none in Greece proper.Do you realise what that means my friend?There has been nothing found south of Olympos.What does that mean? It means,these finding are not greek,but they are macedonian.The Greek fabrications are infinate,no one can beat you in this field,you are the best liers!About your question of ancient discoveries;obviously you dont read much.The discoveries in the Republic of Macedonia are plentyfull,for starters a clay cover of over 4 thousand year old that has a Macedonian name.There have been discovered as old as 7 thousand year old pots,vases etc.In Afganistan [...]
Read the full comment a stone is written in ancient Macedonian,not in Greek.But the most interesting thing I would like to ask is this;how many macedonian findings have been discovered in Greece proper,say,just south of Sterea Ellada which borders Macedonia?If you have thebulls answere it.My prediction is,you cannot in a million years!
A pity about that deaf ear - zhalost, as they say in Russian , or skoda, as they say in Czech.
K.Nous,
<<Give him the endless Macedonia name problem, and he'd have it sorted in five minutes (possibly by re-naming it Western Moldova !) Plus a battalion or two of ex-Soviet Spetsnaz troops just to help soothe the occasional local misunderstanding...... >>
That is exactly what Milosevic
proposed to Mitsotakis, but the latter ran deaf in that particular moment.
Aries - having slept on this one, I am more than ever convinced that Vladimir Voronin would do a MUCH better job than Gruevski, for the reasons I gave before:
- skilful, consensus-builder, old Soviet hand, realist, compromiser,knows where bodies are buried, militarily competent, speaks Russian and Romanian, knows how to hire a good English perevodchik / interpreter . In short, all the things that Gruevski isn't.
- no, Voronin is not a boxer, but he does know how to drive a tank !
- currently just out [...]
Read the full comment of work (his term of office in Republic of Moldova finally expired last month.)
- persona grata to Americans and Russians alike, unlike Gruevski again
got no history so you steal your neighbours,smart very smart,1 option make all the skops around the world wish they chose italy or some other mediterranean culture to rip off
Aries - thanks. Well at US $ 3.5 K per capita per annum (no disagreement with your source), it's better than the Republic of Moldova / Republica Moldovei at $ 2.6 K , but not much. Which places it fairly and squarely in Europe's bottom league.
Well, thanks to you, at least we now know that Republica Macedonia isn't mixing it with Europe's Big Hitters economically.
I have actually met the former President (Vladimir Voronin) of Moldova twice, and got on well with him. I wonder if he would like another equally [...]
Read the full comment poor country under his belt ? (Unlike Gruevski, Voronin is a former Soviet apparatchik who knows where the levers of power are, and who Does Not Mess Around.)
Give him the endless Macedonia name problem, and he'd have it sorted in five minutes (possibly by re-naming it Western Moldova !) Plus a battalion or two of ex-Soviet Spetsnaz troops just to help soothe the occasional local misunderstanding......
Koinos Nous.
A gross national income per capita of around $3,470 in 2007 (GNI, Atlas method).
Oh dear, Aries, at the end of your posting you are quoting one V.I.Lenin about how to run the economy (preferably without breaking too many eggs). Is this the same Vladimir Ilyich Lenin who is still exposed to public view in a mausoleum in Moscow ?
In kinder tones to the Great Man, he did sometimes speak with Much Common Sense, as in:
<<All extremes, of course, are bad. All that is good and useful, if carried to extremes, may become — and beyond a certain limit is bound to become — [...]
Read the full comment bad and injurious. (V.I.Lenin, 1924) >>
This is distinctly relevant and pertinent to the current Greek/Macedonian "Name Issue" - on both sides of this everlasting debate.
What would genuinely b*gger things up is if the Greek economy went belly-up, as now seems to be an unpleasant possibility.
Leaving polemics totally aside (PLEASE don't contribute, Periclis), does anybody know how strong the Republic of Macedonia economy really is ? Not just Gruevski's incompetent bluster, but what really is the situation from a World Bank point of view ?
K.Nous.
To tell what to whom?
Louka Katseli the minister in charge of Economics and development
has an excellent and quite enviable academic record she PhD from Princeton and two Post-doctoral
degrees in both International Economics and Economic policies pertaining to Development
She was assistant professorr at Yale,and visiting professor at Birbeck (London) she is now a professor at Athens University.
Le probleme n'est pas un probleme de conaissance mais un probleme
de "volonte politique" on ne fait
pas une omelette sans casser des [...]
Read the full comment oeufs.
Aries -
Yes, you have a very good point indeed, but has anybody yet told this to the Papandreou government ?
K.Nous
The problem lies in the Stock Exchange and that is speculation determines the prices and not Production therefore creating a big inflated balloon ready to explode. That is certainly not a local phenomenon but a worldwide fact as far as globalization is concerned . The worse is yet to come.
Trying to heal pneumonia with aspirin is what devaluation and typing bank-notes is about . Instead the level of Public sector expenditure should be kept to a reasonable level and investment, production spurred.
Aries, in macro-economic terms you are of course completely right in your analysis.
But in order for the national economy to "spend", following your analysis, it must be able to generate more cash. This cannot be done nationally under EuroZone rules.
But in the old days (for Greece) of a nationally-controlled currency, it could easily be done by expanding national reserves (= physically printing more money). This was done in the UK within the last year, in a way vindicating the UK Government's position in not joining the EuroZone a few years [...]
Read the full comment ago.
It is a genuine shame that Greece does not have this same flexibility any longer, thanks to joining the Eurozone for (as I posted earlier) all the wrong national-pride reasons. Philotimo sometimes has a very heavy price...
K.Nous
The awkward truth about capitalism is the machine does not function unless someone is borrowing money and spending it. The genius of the capitalist system is that it recycles surplus wealth--savings and profits from past economic activity--by lending the wealth for new production and consumption. When nobody in the private economy can borrow and nobody will lend--neither households nor business and finance--government has to step up to the task. In a crisis like this, if the federal government declines to get things moving again by borrowing and spending, as heavily as necessary, then the economy will stumble [...]
Read the full comment along far below its potential (that is, higher unemployment, weaker production, more failures).
Aries - yes, I don't doubt Greek resourcefulness, but there are more EU resources now lined up against Greece than in its favour. Shouting "Molon Lave" doesn't really work under these circumstances, any more than it did against the Turks back in 1453.
The real thing that Greece "got wrong" was joining the EURO in 2001 - for reasons of "philotimo", having the Greek alphabet on the notes, and national pride, it was of course defensible.
Unfortunately, on pure economic grounds, it was all wrong. Greece's economic autonomy lay in preserving the [...]
Read the full comment drachma, and in devaluing it in the case of economic need (i.e. printing more money), as is now precisely the case.
Unfortunately, Greece cannot do this because of its premature decision to join the EuroZone for reasons of national prestige alone.
This is one hole that Greece may well be unable to dig its way out of, without very substantial help indeed from the international financial community. Who will of course say:
"stop playing silly b*ggers over Macedonia".
QED, I think.
K.nous
I like very much the loopholes
their iterations are bypassed by setting jumpers on the mainboards. the Greeks are very resorcefull in such situations.
Aries - the answer lies buried in the Lisbon Treaty, though the point the Telegraph makes about other EU member-states being p***ed off with Greece's abuse of its veto comes from inside Brussels (I have my own information sources there) and is quite a strong one.
If Greece tries its "veto" again, other member-states will exert various bits of financial and other muscle to nullify it. The issue itself doesn't matter - it could be cod quotas in fishing off Iceland as easily as it could be Macedonia - but other member-states "ont le ras-le-bol " [...]
Read the full comment about Greece and its propensity to use its "veto" card more than once too often.
Expect other member-states (and 'les services de la Commission') to use every new loophole in the Lisbon Treaty to frustrate Greece in this respect.
K.Nous
Sometimes you react like a little boy in school who says "look Sir
who bad ny schoolmate is doing."
for heavens sake mate get hold of yourelf since when economic discrepancies have effect on
vetoing capability of a country
Any way Greece has been through this situation many times before
and recovered succesfully.
Cheers!!!
C
Skopiophagos (not a nice name - do you really want to eat them ?) - you should read the world's press:
evans_pritchard/6630117/Greece-tests-the-limit-of- sovereign-debt-as-it-grinds-towards-slump.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambrose
One point this authoritative article makes is that Greece exhausted its "veto" negotiating capital over Cyprus, and that its EU partners have "neither forgiven nor forgotten".
So, leaving aside the question of how far Lisbon removes the veto anyway, this is one card that Greece cannot play again.
Sorry, but that's EU life.....
[...]
Read the full comment No VETO any more, I am afraid.
Skopians! After our 2nd VETO your fake country will burn in a civil war. The Albanians are going to create a schism and FYROM will cease to exist. Skopians will never join NATO nor the EU because they are identity thieves.
VETO! = Albanians take over = no more name issue :)
The name "Macedonia" derives from the tribal name of the ancient Macedonians, attested in Greek sources as Μακεδόνες (Makedōnes). It is usually linked to the Indo-European root *māk-, meaning 'long' or 'tall'. The root is also encountered in the Greek words makednos "long, tall", (attested in Homer, and recorded by Hesychius of Alexandria as a Doric word meaning "large"), or makros ('long, large'), as well as related words in other Indo-European languages. It is commonly explained as having originally meant 'the tall ones' or 'highlanders'.[1] However, R.S.P. Beekes doubts its Greek origin claiming that the morphological analysis make- (root) + [...]
Read the full comment -dnos (suffix) is impossible in an Indo-European word and that it is more likely the word has a Pre-Greek etymology.[2]
Ancient Greek mythology also speaks of a mythical figure Makednos, the eponymic ancestor of the Macedonians. He is described as a grandson of Deucalion and nephew to Hellen, the ancestor of the Greeks (according to Hesiod), or as a son to Aeolus, the ancestor of the Aeolians (according to Hellanicus
my Guess is that the Republic of Northern Macedonia will be your new name. if i had it my way there would be no Macedonia in your name since there is only one Macedonia.
long live Greece
Koinos Nous
Your Last Statement is correct.
Extreme settings on the Name-Issue
from sither side are codemned tro failure.
serbia is back too the realy politic.
Oh G.M.S. - do grow up ! Aries and I are not at all the same person - we have very different email and IP addresses for a start, from different countries, as any Moderator will quickly discover.
If we have both upset you - as appears to be the case - it is probably because the quality of your argument(s) does not satisfy either of us, as it/they can be intellectually ill-founded and based on an uncritical adoption of one side's arguments (in your case the Greek one).
I cannot speak [...]
Read the full comment for Aries, as we are two independent people in different countries, but I imagine we would both agree that the extreme forms of the Greek-Macedonia and Gruevski-Macedonia arguments both completely lack credibility.
to G.M.S
One thing for sure is that Koinos
Nous and Aries are quite different,
and remote from each others,persons
the only common thing they have is a very good education.
To the single person behind Koinos Nous & Aries (which was disguised under dozen of pseudos the last months), please stop to use two different aliases to give more credits to your opinion. I think this method is kinda childish and I am waiting for more courage from you.
I would not like to inform again and again the moderators about it.
Best Regards,
GMS
Aries - many thanks; there's a lot there to think about in your posting. I'll need to reflect on what you say before I can comment; the subject is certainly not a simple one.
Which is where we might both agree that in saying:
<<Let me remind you of a little history during Second World War you Slavs sided with Nazi Germany. Greece told the Germans the famous OXI not through our land. Greeks heroically lost over one million people defending the western world. While you Slavs were pro Hitler .Long Live [...]
Read the full comment Greek Macedonia >>
...."Macedonian Greek" is guilty of considerable over-simplification ! Nothing in the Balkans is ever simple, and this one less than most.
Koinos nous.
You missed the following
While most of Greece was occupied by Axis Powers in World War II, resistance movements were created by Greeks while the collaborationist Ohrana battalions were constituted from among the Slavophone population. After Greece was occupied by Italy, Germany and Bulgaria, in the whole territory of northern Greece, different guerrilla bands and movements were formed. Some of them fought against the occupation (like Napoleon Zervas and his National Republican Greek League (EDES), others were collaborationists, like the Ohrana, many of whom later joined the SNOF.There was also the National People's Liberation [...]
Read the full comment Army (ELAS), a partisan army headed by the Communist Party of Greece (KKE). Although ELAS in some cases relied on forced mobilization, the ethnic Macedonians sympathized with ELAS and the KKE because of their friendly position towards the ethnic minorities of Greece and the fact they had acquiesced to Soviet demands for an independent Macedonian state that would contain most of Northern Greece.
That is where Tito comes in.
Macedonian Greek - I don't know what Greek history books they use in your schools, but they seem to be every bit as selective as the old Soviet Russian ones used to be !
nce_organizations
Facts (as per Northern European history books) seem to be as follows:
(1) there wasn't just one Greek Resistance movement in WWII - there were at least four of them:
- EAM (including KKE ) - Communist
- EDES (accused of collaboration)
- EKKA (hated everybody)
- ELAS [...]
Read the full comment (became the largest)
There was also the YVE/PAO active in Northern Greece / Macedonia, but which existed to fight the Bulgarians, not the Germans. Later accused of collaboration.
You might find this link helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_Resista
(2) The figure of one million dead is correctly ascribed to the Greek Civil War 1946-49, and not to Greek Resistance activities 1941-45. It is true that EAM and ELAS (also KKE) also participated in the Civil War, probably using the same wepons, but in a different conflict.
(3) The Macedonian (Yugoslav) resistance was also active against the Germans, notably in capturing Bitola in 1944 (photos and records exist of this).
So I'm afraid you really need to re-learn your history, and I fear that you are not the only Greek who needs to do so.
In sorrow
Koinos Nous
MY WHAT COMMENTS WE READ. THERE SHOULD BE AN AWAKENING THERE ARE MANY MACEDONIANS LIVING AROUND THE WORLD WHO COME FROM MACEDONIA,JUST BECAUSE OUR NATION HAS BEEN DIVIDED BETWEEN GREECE ,BULGARIA YUGOSLAVIA(NOW MACEDONIA)AND ALBANIA DOESNT CHANGE WHO WE ARE AND WHAT OUR HERITAGE IS !
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
I am afraid that <<Be Civil>> is correct when he says:
<<To rude and crude M. Greek, your country was third world just 40 years ago until the U.S. pumped BILLIONS of dollars into your economy to protect us from the evil communists!! You would be third world now if it wasn't for the E.U.!!!! >>
To which I would add : <<USA>> too.
Sorry - facts of life. So Greece should not really attenmpt to dictate European policy now, unless it wants to be reminded of its [...]
Read the full comment origins post-WW II. (Megalos Aexandros is all very well in 346 BC, but Greece in 1946 AD was in a very different position indeed.)
To pretender M.O.G.,what are modern Greeks, but Slavs, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, and today Indian, Pakistani and African!!! No wonder you can't write so well!!!
To rude and crude M. Greek, your country was third world just 40 years ago until the U.S. pumped BILLIONS of dollars into your economy to protect us from the evil communists!! You would be third world now if it wasn't for the E.U.!!!!
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
To all the fyrom slavs . you have never or ever will be Macedonians.
Thessaloniki will always be Thessaloniki and you can take solun
and shove it where the sun does not shine.Grow up and join the Euro zone. continue to play games and your people will live in this third rate country.Macedonia for Greeks zito i Ellas
serbia is back too reality politic,fyromanian you liket or not you born slavs,about the monceydonia from chicago,your culture is very low,you are slavs and you now this better then me.slavs,is difrent,macedonian is clear difrent,by sirius historic,and not cumunist tito propagant.look for other mythos too live.all world is not stupit like you to believ,your propagant.kiro gligorof [presiden on fyrom 1990]says on greece press 30 days ago:we are not macedonian,we dont have nothing close with alexadros,we are slavs,we come on this area later.so one says you are slavs,one says we are bulgarian,so what realy you are you now?
Somehow nobody from the Greek side in this "debate" has mentioned the events of 1922-26, when the ethnic Slav inhabitants of northern Greek Macedonia were deported into Bulgaria by the Greeks, and "ethnic" Turkish-speaking Christian "Greeks" from Pontus were given the homes and land of the displaced Slavs.
The "Greeks" of Pontus had been displaced by the Treaty of Lausanne following the Greek/Turkish war that Greece lost, and Turks from Greece were also deported in the other direction, back to Turkey.
Not a nice period in Greek history, but successive Greek governments [...]
Read the full comment have kept very quiet about it indeed. And yet it is still in living memory (just !).
The Greek Civil War 1946-49 reactivated this issue slightly, but not in any constructive way.
If only Greek collective memory about its own recent (and ancient) history were not quite so selective....
sorry meant to credit "Robert Chipperfield"
Right on Richard
"The Greeks will be thrilled if Macedonia returns to Serbia, as
South Serbia. The "Macedonoans"-
known until 1912 as Bulgarians for 1,200 years, educated in Belgrade, will be glad to follow that line="
Hopefully the Bulgarians and Greeks will completely reconcile as say France and Germany have. As for those "Macedonians"..wow what can one say.
Lol, poor "Macedonians";)
The people responsible for changing their identity from Bulgarian to whatever, have dropped them like a hot potato, when Greek and Bulgarian support have become more important to them and territorial expansion to the south, all but irrelevant...
What can I say about Greeks? Rude, Crude and on the wrong side of history!!
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language
Bobbie, Greeks did not have macedonia after the war of independence because the ottoman armies were still to powerful in that region to kick out. he Greek nation was brand new, disorganized, bankrupt and too militarily weak to take on the ottoman army in that region.Trust me, if Greece could have done it during the war of independence then they would have.
To all Skopians.
If you are Macedonians why don't you show us any written ancient document in your Slav language.
As for me all ancient Macedonian sculptures,
books etc. are only in Greek.
Snap out of your imagination, you are not
Macedonians, unless you are Greek .
The Greeks will be thrilled if Macedonia returns to Serbia, as
South Serbia. The "Macedonoans"-
known until 1912 as Bulgarians for 1,200 years, educated in Belgrade, will be glad to follow that line=
Why when greece got its independence in 1821 did it not have macedonian land, this goes for bulgaria serbia and albania?
this hate, and conflicts, make my eyes tear. i have friends in Serbia that i Volim very much.
you let them control you.
and then you do what they tell ya.
and i thought we have problems in u.s
journey well. my fellow humans.
it seems like some country's fight just on beliefs , and not for materials. anyways. its always stupid to me.
its all beyond words.
Μακεδονία ξακουστή,
του Αλεξάνδρου η χώρα,
που έδιωξες τους βάρβαρους
κι ελεύθερη είσαι τώρα!
Είσαι και θα ΄σαι ελληνική,
Ελλήνων το καμάρι,
κι εμείς θα σ'αντικρύζουμε,
περήφανα και πάλι!
Οι Μακεδόνες δε μπορούν
να ζούνε σκλαβωμένοι,
όλα και αν τα χάσουνε
η λευτεριά τους μένει!
Nimetz has been pushing the Fyromian govt to accept Northern MaKedonia as the only option that retains any mention of maKedonia - sadly the Fyromian Govt and media seem to keep the populace in the dark on the weak position Fyrom is in. Little do the Fyromian population realise that even this crosses the Greek red line as Nimetz well knows.
The reality is Fyrom either continues to forever accept Fyrom or it might as well say goodbye to EU integration unless it becomes Vardar or Skopjan Republic at best.
LOL!!I remember how happy you people were when Papadreou came in the power!!Where this happines gone ha???Gone with the wind!!You people are so stupid that you thouth that this has to do with a political party or a goverment,they forgot to tell you tht this is probably the only issue that all the politicians agreed EVER.Open mind goverment?And only the fact that we are having a conversation as a nation with you people so that you wont fall apart all this years and the balkans will be mess again,and only the fact that we accepte the M in Fyrom and [...]
Read the full comment only the fact that we are trying to find a solution and pretend that we can play with history as if history is a game or something and all this because they convised you that you are Macedonians,or Athenians or Spartan or any other Greek tribe its not only open mind its stupidity..
PS:Well my brainwashed Fyromsky thats the diference between the freaks from Diaspora and the 400.000 Fyromians who came to Greece last year!!And now with the Visa liberation i cant imagine what wil happen!!hahahah!I imagine you in the borders having posters writing Dont go to Gayrece!!LOL!!Anyway look,take the chance and come now,visit any Macedonian village you want to have a simple conversation with a Macedonian face to face,or just do a favour to your self and visit Vergina!!Then the Matrix will fall down!!Do u have the balls??I dont think show!!On the other hand you can do it by just going and take a look in that strange rock in front of your parliament!!LOL!!
Bye bye from the reall Macedonia!!
Dude I would like to visit Gayreece but u also asking me to have a balls to visit it. Well that's the way u do it over there eversince. I don't need to visit it now, I will visit it in future when u guys get an openminded government. Untill then......
It was pleasure talking to u as well
PS: quote: if u have a balls come and visit. No dude, world is nice place to live, I'll go anywhare but Gayreece
Mate whatever!!You speak about genocide.For god shake do u even know what this world is??You people have no right to talk about genocides,dont even put this world in your mouths when you speak to as you insult as and all the humanity.You people have the logic,this is what they told me this is what i know so this is what is right.What genocide where and most important against who??3 brainwashed generations the result is you...As for the civil war trust me you dont want to talk about this thing cause this will be you morning coffe.its a thing that burns [...]
Read the full comment you people,which says who are the reall Macedonians in Fyrom are the Bulgarians who left Macedonia back then and who are the rest.Its the same thing as the forbiten document that your goverment doesnt want to be in public even after 60 years and it was a BIG mistake that Greece never asked for this issue to be open.But those are the results when you are a country who bellong to EU dealing with a country like Fyrom...Im from Thessaloniki not Solun spell the city right,i know you are a Slav so this is how you know it,but mate the city has this name get over it. ,i come from Bolaka Drama and Kastoria,i invite to come in my fathers village in Drama to enter to a cafetereia find an old volk try to explain in your language all this thing that you are saying today.Do it we wait you in the summer,now you can travel free in EU for 90 days a year we are next to you if you have the balls come and discover your truth.Ill be honest with you i have friends from Fyrom from the Univercity i like them very much cause they are telling some truths and they are not afraid to admit some things.But i dont like you and what you represent.You people will wake up suddenly at least get prepared thats whats all about.Anyway it was nice talking to you,its always fun!!
You should've posted this last reply early dude so we don't waste time here. Few villages compared to the whole Aegean Macedonia as well as Solun (Thessaloniki) is nothing. That was a war inside Gayreece and u should've started at first point. U did Genocide and that is the very truth that u and I and few people know about. But it happen what happen now let's make a deal and live in peace and no insults. To be honest I do respect u guys unlike u us and untill that changes we're not gonna be friends which I don't [...]
Read the full comment need to be
film Chicago or Dimitar
Dude your propaganda and the bulsits that you freaks keep saying on the net world that you live are so stupid and so idiotic that its boring even to answer,but even when we answer and bring you to reallity,after a while you people(and specially the brainwashed Fyromians from Australia)are running and never come back.If you want to here what is genocide come in Neurokopi in Drama to talk with old volks and here in your language(bulgarian)what you grandfathers did here.But you people from out there dont have the balls at least the [...]
Read the full comment Fyromians from Fyrom does you people have no dignity nothing.Anyway the thing is that the name will change,then you will have an ethnicity in your life finally and a language too.Basically from the moment you will enter the EU(we are talking in about 10 years from now in the best)as a multiethnici country that you are know and with the majority of the people being Albanians by then,everything will be clear to you people.A nice name a nice ethnicity which wont insult anyone and most important our history,everybody will be happy and everything willbe cool!!Now its big true that Bulgarians love Fyromians since Fyromians are in reallity mutated Bulgarians(we all know this in the balkans)as for the Serbs we love them from the bottom of our hearts and they know it no matter what will happen.Now as for the Greek girl who calls you Macedonian and with a proud way,what i have to say is that you really really have to quit drugs or just visit a doctor cause what is happening to you is very serius!!
ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ ΕΛΛΑΣ!
I see now become angry dude all of a sudden. What happen 2 ur patiance, but, oh wait, u were never patient, never ever. Yours kind of angryness even did genocide over Macedonian people and they had to flee Aegean Macedonia, their homeland.
Macedonia is now under preassure from ur government and they might change the name but only 2 advance in EU and NATO. Trust me dude, WE WILL PREVEIL and we will continue the fight and at some point when we join EU & NATO we will CHANGE the name back Republic of Macedonia.
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You say thank u Bulgaria and thank you Serbia, but come in US and u will see Serbs and Bulgarians been friends with us Macedonians only. No Greeks.
And just so u know, my education comes from VMEI Sofia and my gf is greek. They all call me as Macedonian and proud
to all skopians if u are macedonia why u dont speak greek?macedonians spoke greek.
Thank u Serbia for bringing them to reallity!!
w
http://www.makfax.com.mk/#_tools/article/94555/vie
You and the rest of the brainwashed Fyromians freaks from diaspora who everybody calls you people Macedonians(but noone knows in reallity what this is and generally dont give a fck)are about to have a sudenly and hard wake up from the dream world that you people are on the months to come dont worrie!!At the least the Fyromians here in Fyrom knows exastly what is happening and are you could say prepeared!!But it will be so much fun to see your reactions on the fasist links that you people from out there have in the web in the next months!!We [...]
Read the full comment allredy lauphing with you people and your reactions!!Keep it this way and continue making the web interesting it was never before so much fun!!!
Serbia thank you!!Bulgaria thank you too for supporting the truth and keep reminding to this people who they really are!!
I'm a Macedonian and I would like to see what Gayreek government have to offer to me besides what I hear from my countrys Government.
Listen, I live in USA and I've been around the world and US and everywhare I go people consider me as Macedonian as well as my country Macedonia so why name change? I know who I am and how I was raised.
I will say only this, you greeks will continue bitching and we will stay as Macedonia forever until u receive some openminded non_fasist goverment who will recognize the country [...]
Read the full comment and recognize the genocide u did over Macedonian people during Metaxa.
Ales gute to all of you
Macedonia & Macedonian forever.
MACEDONIAN ONLY IN YOUR DREAM.
WHY YOU DONT LIKET FYROMANIAN?YOU THING ALL THE TIME YOU LIVE WITH PROPAGANT AND LIES.THIS IS TRUE YOU NEVER BE MACEDONIA YOU ARE SLAVS BE PROUT LIKE SLAVS.WHAT YOU WIN ALL THIS YEARS,NOTHING.JUST YOU PLAY THE GAME OF FASISTIC GRUEVSKI,NO NATO NO E.U,YOU LOSE,NOT THE GRUEVSKI,SLAVS IS VERY HISTORIC PEOPLE,BE PROUT DONT CANCEL YOUR NASIONALITY,MACEDONIA MYTHOS IS ONE CUMUNIST PROPAGANT FROM TITO,YOU DONT NEAD THIS.FINALY THIS MAYBE HELP YOU TOO SEE MORE CLEAR AND OPEN.BRAVO SERBIAN.
SERBIAN IS CLOSE TOO REALITY.
WE RESPECT SLAVS WE DONT RESPECT STEALER FYROMANIAN.
North Macedonian soon enough and even that is too much.
he did'nt really say much one way or the other. the macedonians have done their best to mirror the albanians in their international affairs. this will set them up for little support from serbia, russia and greece and when time comes to choose ..usa and eu will hands down side with albanians over macedonians ..leaving my southern brothers in a very tough spot...use of northern macedonia to attack serbia only has 10-15 yrs of memory..soon that goodwill from west will be gone..
Serbia should try and look long term.
I am Macedonian and disappointed what Macedonia did to recognize Kosovo and now Serbia is hitting back. I understand the short term reason Serbia has but it has to understand Macedonia is between a rock and a hard place. The same pressure that ripped Kosovo from Serbia is at work in Macedonia. Serbia should understand this more then anyone. Macedonia and Serbia have a common background and common challenges. Greece could care less about Serbs and actually secretly despises all Slavs. Self haters?
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes
(Beware Greeks bearing gifts) -
Somehow I read this rather a long time ago (maybe 2000 years ?)
greece never recognise state and nation,and never recognise.bulgaria recognise,just a name no nation,no language.serbia is close too ass,step by step,this propagant he stop.only fyromanian the believ the macedonian mythos.
Why bravo? One would expect this from Serbia - Serbia that does not recognize Macedonian Orthdox Church and present border lines. BTW, as real "Of Balkan Origin" neighbours, added to Serbia, Greece does not recognize Macedonia as State and as Nation; Bulgaria does not recognize Macedonia as separate nation with own language; Albania... well enough. Alles gute
bravo serbia
Beware of greeks bearing gifts
Sorry, shifty lot don’t trust them