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Periclis - I think I understand enough Greek to know that "gamisou" is NOT a polite form of address.

I won't use the English equivalent to you as this would rightly upset the Moderators on this site.

However, "Va fa'n culo" might be an adequate rendering into Classical Italian, which I am sure that with your preoccupation with Classical history you would understand....

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Periclis - DEN KATALAVOUMEN ! We really don't understand your English. Get somebody else to post for you.

EFKHARISTO POLI

if you dont understand,dont anser so simple.just you, dont understand,mister english.

Periclis - oh do shut up, and/or learn to spell (so that we can all understand what you are trying to say in English !)

Sorry to put it so directly, but many of us have been saying this to you on this English-speaking site for some time. Get a friend who knows English well to post for you, maybe.

dear peter,the kiro gligorof [P/M on fyrom 1990]says on greece press last month:we are slavs we come on this area latter from macedonian we dont have nothing close too alexadros we are not macedonian.slavs and macedonian is total difrent,by sirius historic.too koinos nous some time you are big malakas,and you thing you are the mister perfect.

Dr Oz.
Revenez mais avec devront etre avec vous vos references Historiques
merci.

My friends, the deal is done you have not long to wait.
Pourquoi fais j'ayez besoin d'amis,au revoir.

To K.nous
I like your paraphrasing
What i really said is:
"I can resist the temperatures of hell."

Dr Oz - you may have some good points to make buried down there amonsgt all your rhetoric, but if you are rude to everybody (including your potential allies), then there is little hope for you.

As Aries says, il ne reste que des remperatures infernales comme soulagement a l'enfer. (English translation: it might be a bit hot where you're going, so don't bother taking excessive clothing !)

dr oz.

You provide the evidence instead then.

You and your like claim this claim that but what evidence do you provide to back these claims up. None. All you wish to do is steal something from someone else. Had you just tried to take the name and nothing else you would have more symapathy around the world, instead you have tried to promote the brainwashing that you all recieved and expect everyone else who know different to back you by also trying to steal a history and culture that does not belong to you. This is why you will also remain outside of europe too.

Dear Dr Oz.
<<Dear Pan and Aries, your selective readings are playing with your minds again, it seems you bring out these false claims of not reading of Macedonians in history all the time, and righteously insisting that you never have read any source, when in many forums this has been proven!>>
If you can do better than the geralities you mention on top
be more accurate by stating your sources as I have have done on
multiple occasionss
As for the "chaleur" croyez moi
je resiste a des temperatures
infernales
Merci

Dear Pan and Aries, your selective readings are playing with your minds again, it seems you bring out these false claims of not reading of Macedonians in history all the time, and righteously insisting that you never have read any source, when in many forums this has been proven!
Koinos Nous, I cannot give praise to one who gives insults and mimics ones words in a debate!
His actions are child like and give no credence to his interpretations.
Si vous ne pouvez pas prendre la chaleur, restez hors de la cuisine.

...I should add that to the north west are of Macedonia there were Serbs but the area which these writers were speaking about is in the modern day area of Makedonia in the Hellenic Republic. The very area where the Hellenes were very much one of the majority races.

Many thanks Aries.

The main point is that peter needs to get out and read some books. I know it is difficult when someone has their arm up you and operating your mouth for speach that comes out.

Another peter:

Show us one book prior to 1900 hundred that shows a macedonian people living in Macedonia. Every person and I say every person whoever wrote about their travels in or around Macedonia only ever encountered, Hellenes, Mohamedans, Bulgarians, Albanians, Vlachs, Wallachians and Jews. Why no Macedonians then peter, tell us. if you so wish we can provide the basic make up of the population of these people. You will be very sad as the two largest groups were Hellenes and Mohamedans Bulgarians came in third. Again, why is this peter, why no majority of Macedonians. What about the languages. Well again these very travellers only ever encountered Hellenic, Bulgarian, Albanian and Turk. Strange again is it not that NONE of them encountered a language called Macedonian. Care to explain peter?

PAN.
my friend it not Borissov but Bozidar Dimitrov who cast the challenge.

To accentuate Peter's delirium
<<Durring the occupation of the city States in BC by Philip of Macedonia,Athens was populated by Albanian majority,same goes for Pelopones>>
Paionia is the the only name which satisfies the conditions set.

peter

when you find anything written or any official document from the mythical fyrom before 1945 please let us know. There is a million euros waiting for you from mr borisov. Good luck, you will need it:-))

Niko,you are asking Dr.Oz to prove that Greeks are Turks.Durring the occupation of the city States in BC by Philip of Macedonia,Athens was populated by Albanian majority,same goes for Pelopones.In 1922-26 Greece exchanged population with Turkey.The majority of these people were Christian Turks.This exchange was not done on ethnic based deal,it was on religion.All of these people were setled in the Macedonian land,non in Greece proper.These people did not even spoke greek,we called them prosfigi.To go back to 1834,you were not even called Greece.Thanks to Otto and his so-called historian who re-writed the history and connected you to the ancient Hellens.This was only don for his own glory,not because you are cousins with the ancient Hellens.To connect the Macedonians to greekness is completly absurd.Today, Greece consists of over 40% Albanians and the rest are a mixture of Macedonians,Turks,Vlahs,Roma etc.,but not ancient Hellenic connection.Face the truth,you cannot go on any longer to lie about the Balkan history.

DR OZ
When cornered two are the outcomes
1)insults
2)the cornered uusely insists that the counter-part has a selective memory syndrome
nous avons tous jouer sur ce terrain mon vieux.
Enfin de comptes ce n'est q'une reaction normale de votre pars que je comprends tres bien.
Merci.

Dr Oz - you may well have many good points to make, but don't be rude to Aries, who is one of the best interlocutors on this site.

(Believe me, I can name you several ones infinitely worse, such as Periclis who needs an English dictionary, and also
Greek Macedonia Supremacy, who at times is nearly as bad.)

So praise be to where praise is due, and Aries is amongst the best (mind you, I don't always agree with him !)

Dear Aries, your ego has a selective memory syndrome, which makes it impossible for you to distinguish the facts. Then you hurl insults when someone is winning the name issue, with proven points on Macedonia!! Tres triste!

Aries - many thanks for that - un grand merci !

Ironic that this word that genuinely puzzled me comes from French, which I should know !(Bescherelle "La Conjugaison Pour Tous" confirms it in its list of All Known French Verbs. Unfortunately, being French, this authoritative listing doesn't do page numbers, so I can't quote one !)

"propager", as you rightly say, is an e-stem verb, so the present participle as per Bescherelle is indeed "propageant", and not "propagant". And - in English - it means "distributing" or "propagating", as you say.)

How on earth the scientists managed to come up with the word "propagant", I can't imagine. But - like the word "propellant", which is not the same as "propellor" - they have duly done so. Anyway, thanks once again for genuinely enlightening us !

I just hope that M.O.G manages to find another word before he causes further international confusion! Ou bien, qu'il (ou elle) puisse s'exprimer en francais pour eviter toute malentendue eventuelle !

Our friend M.O.G means Propaganda
but uses "propagant" from the
french "propageant" meaning something like distributing the verb is propager which in turn means "making Known" Les Nouvelles se propagent avec vitesse".

M.O.G. - you do get a bit repetitive, especially using the word <<propagant>> ! Properly used, this means a process in Advanced Physics. Do you really mean this ? (It doesn't mean anything else, in English, Greek, or Serbian.)

A helpful link is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propagant

Apart from this, none of us can tell what on earth you mean in your repetitive postings.

Have you thought about buying a dictionary ?

the fyromanian nead realy doctor,you never be macedonian.too all monceydonian [fyromanian]you realy now what means macedonia??tell me wen you see macedonian coin,the have greece or slavic sybol?you born with propagant,and you die with propagant.macedonian you be only in your dream.

Wow Peter, I must've hit a nerve;)

To Valeri;You are very hatefull person.First of all, you dont deserve an answer because in order to give an answer you need to have facts,you do not!But, once more I will give you a short one;The Macedonians came to this peninsula centuries before the Tatars. To Metody,My language is Macedonian spoken since BC.Here are few to prove it;"Verne-raining, Gazi-steping,Turga-pushing,etc.These words are used today by the Macedonians in Unzi teritories in Pakistan,we use exactly the same words.As I said to Valerie,you dont deserve an answer.Please,read history what has happened in 1912-13 in Bucharest before you can add your oppinion on the question of Macedonia.The Prime Minister of Bulgaria sa the Greek PM are afraid of losing part of Macedonian history.There is no other reason but history and the recognition of the Macedonian minority and the occupation of Macedonian land.I am attempting not to get personal,but some times it is unavoidable.People have the right to call themselfs what they are,it is as simple as that.

Dr Oz.
Self determination yes but not on the expense of others, by the way
have backed your revisionist views on the other forum my man backed
mine.

Dear Niko, Yes I have read up on all your questions. They have been answered quite vigorously many times in this forum and there is no reason for me to do so again. The problem lies with you Greeks, who have a blind eye towards history and cannot make the right conclusions!! A PEOPLE'S choice in self determination is what democracy is all about and is what you Greeks claim, you invented!! Your stubbornness with the Macedonian name comes with arrogance not facts!!

Nico - yes you are right about actual accession (so far, we think, but this might change once experts look at the Treaty of Lisbon more closely).

But pre-accession talks and negotiations (which are quite a long-drawn-out process) can now start either by qualified-majority decision of the Council, or else by simple Commission decision (even if "ad referundum" on a wider issue, like with Croatia and Slovenia).

So, in either case, the previous Greek "veto" on the start of Macedonian pre-accession negotiations now falls.

(How far either Athens or Skopje yet realise this is an open question: if ever there was a case of the "blind leading the blind" it is this one !)

Dr. Oz, just by way of deductive logic, if people do become Hellenized, they obviously do not do so on their own, but there must be a people to do the Hellenizing. Therefor, to say that modern Greeks are not Greeks is nonsensical. As I said before, you are completely ignorant of the history of the Greek people in anatolia.

Dr. Oz, you keep spouting nonsense about Greeks being turks and slavs and albanians being hellenized....but do you know about ottoman marriage law? do you know about the byzantine recovery period of the 9th century after the slavic invasions?? do you know about the chronicle of monemvasia?? Greeks are not turks, and you have no proof to the contrary. You can chose to ignore history in favor of your revisionist propaganda, but the rest of the world will not. Just keep regurgitating the unfounded and baseless propaganda your country has fed you, it makes us look better.

Koinos nous, I understand that the lisbon treaty changes the game a bit. But, E.U. accession must be a unanimous decision regardless of the Lisbon Treaty, if i am not mistaken.

I think it's interesting that even his name is indicative - Gruev and "ski" - he has both endings - the Bulgarian and the made up one.
Obviously when his grandfather was forced to change it, he couldn't just eliminate the "ev" because it would've change it to something silly - Gruski.
So he kept the "ev" and added the "ski".
Gruev is a Bulgarian name. I had a friend Gruev.

The ancestors of the slav-Macedonians were Bulgarian. This is a fact that sooner or later academics in FYROM will have to come to terms with.
Did Gruevski need an interpreter to speak to Borrisov?

Dr Oz.
Yes it's provoking to see forgery and systematic revisionism that
makes me kick.
The ten lies about Macedonism by
Bozidar Dimitrov a well known
Bulgarian academic
Koinos Nous Greek words for Common Sense.
Sorry there is no Aesop fable
under the Title of the Rabbit and the Snake. the Weazel and the snake exists so doees the farmer and the snake.
Pick and choose coreectly this time
About the Lisbon Trweaty Dream on my friend there will be a lot of water passing under the bridge
until its implementation.

Dear Niko and his fellow Greeks, this obsession who have with history is a very great concern to me. It overshadows your reasoning and state of mind and leads to irrational opinions on subject matters concerning Macedonia! It doesn't matter how many times Macedonians have explained their case to you (quite diplomatically I must say) there comes from you an unhealthy response of vulgar sarcasm. As to your concern that I stated, modern Greeks are Turks, I must broaden that to include Slavs and Albanians who have been hellenised throughout the centuries!

Niko - what successive Greek governments have not fully realised is that Greece can have as many "red lines" as it likes, but it does not rule the world, nor the EU.

The Lisbon Treaty will have removed many of those "red lines", as the Commission and/or other Member-States can over-ride or cancel them (this is why the Lisbon Treaty is so unpopular in the UK Conservative Party).

I just don't think Greece has yet fully realised this. Or, more subtly, the Greek Government HAS recognised it, but dare not tell the Greek electorate !

This one is going to be fun to watch. A bit like the old game of when does the rabbit see the snake ? (Aesop).

Koinos Nous, I am afraid that it is you that is mistaken. Papandreou has already recently said to the media, e.u and mathew nimetz that Greece has national "red lines" and that Macedonia can not hope to start accession talks into the e.u. in december unless a solution is found by then. If not, FYROM will surely face another veto.

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This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

kiro gligorof says on greece press[we are slavs we come on this area later we dont have nothikg close too alexandros]if you like too speak like papagale here,this is not my proplem,butt you must now and if you fuel the forum with your propagant this dont make you macedonian.macedonian you born and you born slavs,be prout like slavs.too all fyromanian you realy now whatt means macedonia????????????

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First to Niko;It is ironic to claim Macedonia is Greek or Bulgarian.You cannot have it both ways my friend.Both, Greece and Bulgaria are stealing the Macedonian identity fo only one reason,to deny the Macedonians ethnicity and its history because you people have stolen from us.Dr.Oz is right with his answer to you.To macedonia olways greece;Are you still in the dark ages?We speak slavic language same as the Russians,Bulgarians,Poles,Serbs etc.Slavic does not mean we are "Slavo Macedonians"same goes with the above countries I cared to mention,do you get it?Once more;we are Macedonians who speak slavic language,and therefore,we are ethnic Macedonians.Bulgarias complaint is absurd,we are not stealing their history,on the contrary,they are same as Greece.We as people cannot be both Greek and Bulgarians at the same time.You people are contradicting yourselfs each time you try to tell us we are this or that.You see,you both are historicly liers.

Sorry Niko - but you are wrong. When you say:

<<And unless your country Changes its name to what Greece wants, you will never be in NATO or the E.U. >>

this is no longer true once the Treaty of Lisbon comes into force. Also, many of NATO's partner-states are more than a bit "pissed-off" with the Greek veto, and will not let it happen again.

You don't play Bridge with only one trump card in your hand, and bid to win. Once that trump card is played, you have to look for other solutions.

Dr. Oz, Macedonians are one people. They are one people who live in northern Greece. And you still did not answer my question. what proof do you have that Greeks are actually turks?? are you ignorant of the long history of ethnic Greeks from anatolia?? do you know how thessaloniki got its name?? Thessalonki was the name of Phillip II daughter, so he named the city after her. The name of the city is NOT solun, even the ancient macedonians (who are greeks) did not call the city Solun. Solun is a slavic name for Thessaloniki. Why dont you just admit that the people from FYROM are actually bulgarians?? you speak a slavic language and you have slavic last names.

Dear Niko, I know it hurts to read the truth and I see in your response,( between the lines ) that you to realize that Macedonians are one people with no culture barrier. History has a funny way of changeing in the hands of scrupulous historians, so try not to believe in these people as it will only break your heart!

people of F.Y.R.O.M, aka "western bulgarians"....please stop stealing Greek and Bulgarian history. Be proud of your Bulgarian ethnicity.

Dr. Oz, please tell me what proof you have that modern Greeks are turks?? Are you referring to the population Exchange?? do you not know that Ethnic Greeks have been living in the land that is modern turkey for thousands of years?? do you know that marriage between turk and greek was illegal during ottoman empire?? so please, tell me, what is your proof of this??

The British have had their problems with France over the years but there still exists a province (formally English) called Bretagne (Brittany). This is also their name for Britain and we certainly no longer (since George 2) make any territorial claims in that direction

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Dear Pericles and m.o.g.,yes we Macedonians recognize that we have different cultures in our country and welcome everybody as in any great democracy, but you must realize that the modern Greek is really a Turk and your hatred towards Turkey comes from a Oedipus complex, that must resolved before you question someone else,s nationality! The need for you to bully a defenceless country also shows your insecurity ,in that you feel you are not as great as you pretend to be! I could go on but I would have to charge you for your therapy.

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It was communist Tito that created this "country"to separate them from Bulgaria...They have always been main part of Bulgaria...

Njama maketa, ima samo balgarski ezik na teritoriata na drevna gratska makedonia !!!

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Danielle,
You recognize your Bulgarian minority - all non Albanians there, that is...

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This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language

Prime Minister Borisov it is up to you to difuse the tensions between the two neighbours,all you have to do is recognise the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria as it was durring 1945-49.Stop with the threats like Greece does.