Fri, Feb 10 2012

Debate about Bulgaria’s leverage over Macedonia

Fri, Oct 30 2009 13:35 CET 6242 Views 247 Comments
Debate about Bulgaria’s leverage over Macedonia

Macedonia's prime minister Nikola Gruevski reviews a Bulgarian military honour guard during an official welcoming ceremony in Sofia, November 28 2007.

Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski drew brickbats from Bulgaria’s top politicians for statements that Sofia interpreted as representing claims on its territory by Skopje – and some in Bulgaria have suggested that Macedonia should be reminded that it needs to keep to the straight and narrow (and its own borders) if it wants support for its bid to join the European Union.
 
Speaking in Australia on October 26 2009, Gruevski said that in that country, Macedonians had the unique opportunity to live together with their compatriots from Aegean and Pirin Macedonia and they should not divide into Vardar, Aegean, Pirin Macedonians, because there are only Macedonians.
 
The remark brought condemnation from Bulgarian President Georgi Purvanov, and from Bulgarian Prime Minister Boiko Borissov a reminder to "our Macedonian friends" that they needed to choose the path of EU values such as good neighbourly relations and avoiding making statement such as Gruevski’s.
 
Deputy Foreign Minister Marin Raikov added his own note of indignation, and several Bulgarian-language newspapers went into print with theirs, among them mass-circulation daily 24 Chassa which said: "Gruevski has presented Aegean and Pirin Macedonia as his own".
 
The same newspaper interviewed historian Georgi Markov who praised Bulgaria’s position of reminding Macedonia that its support for its Nato and EU membership bids was not unconditional (Purvanov had said this in reaction to Gruevski, but slightly longer memories will recall that it was also said under the previous government by Bulgaria’s then-foreign minister Ivailo Kalfin).
 
Markov said that individual Macedonians, the neighbouring country’s ordinary people, had ever-improving attitudes to Bulgaria but there was hostility among the Macedonian media, which was influenced by Belgrade.
 
Markov’s message was that if Skopje and Ankara (Turkey also aspires to EU membership) wanted to "play rough" they should be reminded that Bulgaria, as a member of both these organisations, held a "trump card".
 
Bozhidar Dimitrov, a historian who currently is minister for Bulgarians abroad and not a well-loved figure in Macedonia, was interviewed on Bulgarian National Television’s breakfast show on October 30.
 
Dimitrov repeated his theory that Macedonia’s political elite did not genuinely want the country to join the EU and Nato.
 
He linked this "suicidal policy" within Macedonia not only to Gruevski’s statements in Australia, but also to the Spaska Dimitrova case and the controversial encyclopedia episode.
 
Asked why Bulgaria should threaten to block Macedonia’s EU and Nato hopes – "why threaten them about something they do not want?" – Dimitrov said that "Macedonism" was a legacy of the Communist International and would be liquidated only when the country joined the EU and Nato. This was behind the opposition, he said.
 
It was sad, Dimitrov said, that the young people in charge of Macedonia – which, he said, had a cabinet with an average age of 34 and one minister as young as 20 – was dominated by the thinking of the early 20th century.
 
In Skopje, Inpress said that this was "not the first time" that Bulgaria’s Prime Minister had set conditions for his Macedonian counterpart in terms of Nato and the EU. The reaction of Dimitrov, Inpress was expected "as he is ‘expert’ in Macedonian-Bulgarian relations and an ‘analyst on duty’."

On October 30, the Macedonian government posted on its website an interview Gruevski gave to MIA news agency, in which he said that he had made no territorial claims and that his remarks had been taken out of context.

"The statement is taken out of its context. With regard to the situation around the Macedonian community in Australia, in my statement I called Macedonians in Australia to share higher understanding and not to get divided on any issues, such as the troubles around the church, the 'for' and 'against' the administrator of the Macedonian Orthodox Church, or over their origin which is what you stated in your question," the agency story said, as quoted by Bulgaria's Focus.

"I said that there - in Australia, they live in one country and I meant Australia, and that they should respect each other," Gruevski said.

"I also added that even on the Balkans, when all countries join the EU and the frontiers fall apart, all nations on the Balkans will live in Europe without borders, just like in Australia where different ethnic Macedonians are living, with no regard to where they were born – Croatians, Greeks, Albanians and etc., coming from different countries.

"I also said that it is normal for human beings to enter into quarrels but that forgiveness is a common Christian feature. I called for understanding, unity and forgiveness," Gruevski said.

"Not only weren’t there any territorial claims but there was some promising and pro-European spirit," he said.

"The Macedonian issue should not be used for discord but for reconciliation and unification. I am sorry if someone has misunderstood my statement. I am consistent in my statements and what I say at home is what I say abroad," Gruevski said.

 

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Comments

Anonymous Mavroudi Sat, Jan 23 2010 12:17 CET

Oxi bre Peco I believe you Voulgaros but this no problem for us Makedones. You like speak voulgarika but Vlade speak many people like you like ta skopia. You right for this for problima onoma FYROMIS but Many Makedones no think problima me Voulgari like you Peco. Vlado, Gotso, Mile, Zoran good Voulgari fili emena in Florina and they no speaking bad for you people apo ta skopia. Peco is no problima speaking To my Makedones people we live here thousand years but you right Peco like you voulgari people later many apo ti cappadocia, anatoli, kai ta pontia come [...]

Read the full comment to Makedonia but like you like to speak Makedonika. One day when you come to Makedonia and speak to my Makedones people you see pou imaste filotimi and not bad people. Many voulgari live here and speak dioglosses voulgarika and Makedonika. Emeis ei Makedones eimaste axaioi oi alloi opos Voulgari, Pontoioi, Anatoloioi einai olloi neofiloi stoi perioxoi mas. Peco no problima me esena I like voulgari because you speak good thing for my people Makedones sometimes people from ta skopia no good people only speaking bad from Makedones. Emeis oi Makedones eimaste oi dopoioi tis peroihis kai etsi sebomaste tous allous opos esas tous voulgarous. Kali sou Mera.

Anonymous Peter Fri, Jan 22 2010 21:30 CET

Mavroudi,here is good news for you; "Greece will not wait for the decision of the International Court of Justice in the Haque and will probably ask for non-binding resolutiom of the name dispute over violation of the temporal agreement." "According to experts in the process Greece knows it can loose the case and thus to loose its authority.This means Greece would agree under conditions Macedonia to become NATO member State under the name FYROM and the cauntry to forfeit the Process." Finaly,Greece has realised they cannot win in Haque.As it is, people of all walks have the right to call [...]

Read the full comment themselves under the Human Rights what ever they wish.Therefore, we call ourselves MACEDONIANS! Mavroudi,I am Macedonian from Lerin Villages,my "progoni"were Macedonians.There is no way that, you or anybody else can take that away from me!On your Bulgarian claim,you must be blind or uneducated to compair the differance between Bulgarian and Macedonian.You either are "Pontious"or "Ellinophilos" what we say "grkoman".Have a nice day my friend.

Anonymous Mavroudi Fri, Jan 22 2010 10:57 CET

Oxi bre Peco. You really Vouglaros same my good friend Vlado. He speak me people like you no like same Voulgaro because ta skopia give money you. No problem Peco I not think bad. Before 1913 many Makedones here we are eones here. I know many voulgari like you but they no speaking bad thing to us Makedones they like us. Ama ta exeis problima you speaking to no good people. Here in Makedonia all Makedones no problem with you voulgari people Peco you must believe me. One day if you come to Makedonia I show you Makedones filotimo. Ande [...]

Read the full comment yia sou Peco.

Anonymous Peter Wed, Jan 20 2010 19:38 CET

Aries,I just would like to make one final commen;Had Tito not allowed the Greek army to cross through the "Kaimaksilan" in 1948 Greece would have been in the Soviet block.We do have these conversations today because of that event.Now,let me tell you,I am not communist,I said to Sasha I will support any government in the Republic of Macedonia as long as they guard the Macedonian identity. On the subject of 1982,you are wrong.The 1982 has the resemblance of the "Apospasma" in 1946-49.Both these Secret Services were stricly againts the Macedonian people.These organizations never existed in Greece proper,only in Macedonia.I lived [...]

Read the full comment through the 1946-48 with the "apospasma"and remember what was happening then.Today,the Greek government continues with the same "violi"Look what happened with the last European elections.Non of the election material was delivered by the post office.All the mail material was returned to Ouranio Toxo.Even the post office got involved,shame,is it not?.

Anonymous Peter Wed, Jan 20 2010 19:09 CET

Aries,thanks for the spelling corrections.English is my fourth language I can communicate with. The point I am trying to make on the Karamanlis and Droutsas is "to exis"How can one who is not Macedonian claim to be a Macedonian,when a indigenouse Macedonian cannot?.This is my whole point I was trying to make. By the way,Papandreu is half American,I have not heard him say he is Macedonian.Why ,I have no right to declair myself what realy I am and that is Macedonian from Greek part of Macedonia?.I bet, if Greece recognises the Macedonian minority,everything will fall in its place.The problem is,Greece [...]

Read the full comment loves to fabricate history and that is the biggest impediment for Greece. Mavroudi;my language is not Bulgarian,it is Macedonian.I hate to repit my self but I am forced to,and here is why;In 1920 and 1925 Greece recognised the Macedonian identity,language as different than the Serbian and Bulgarian.If you read history you will be able to realise you are wrong.When I speak of indigenouse Macedonians,I mean Macedonians before 1913 when Greece was just a tiny State.In 1913,Greece aquired Aegean Macedonia and Kriti.You know what happened with Kriti,do you know how it became Greek,same with Macedonia?If you do,than your statements would go down the toilet.

Anonymous Peter Wed, Jan 20 2010 19:07 CET

Aries,thanks for the spelling corrections.English is my fourth language I can communicate with. The point I am trying to make on the Karamanlis and Droutsas is "to exis"How can one who is not Macedonian claim to be a Macedonian,when a indigenouse Macedonian cannot?.This is my whole point I was trying to make. By the way,Papandreu is half American,I have not heard him say he is Macedonian.Why ,I have no right to declair myself what realy I am and that is Macedonian from Greek part of Macedonia?.I bet, if Greece recognises the Macedonian minority,everything will fall in its place.The problem is,Greece [...]

Read the full comment loves to fabricate history and that is the biggest impediment for Greece. Mavroudi;my language is not Bulgarian,it is Macedonian.I hate to repit my self but I am forced to,and here is why;In 1920 and 1925 Greece recognised the Macedonian identity,language as different than the Serbian and Bulgarian.If you read history you will be able to realise you are wrong.When I speak of indigenouse Macedonians,I mean Macedonians before 1913 when Greece was just a tiny State.In 1913,Greece aquired Aegean Macedonia and Kriti.You know what happened with Kriti,do you know how it became Greek,same with Macedonia?If you do,than your statements would go down the toilet.

Anonymous Dimitri Wed, Jan 20 2010 12:36 CET

Kiril, the ancient Macedonians with their other Greek allies the Phocians, Lokrians, Thessalians, & Molossians defeated the Athenians, Thebans, Plataeans, and Megarians but many other Greek tribes were never involved e.g. Spartans, Arcadians, Messinians, Achaeans. The ancient Greeks were never a united nation in the modern sense as you imply. The dispersal of the Macedonians you mention, after their defeat by the Romans was nothing more than the usual enslavement of women and children into Roman households while the men were either butchered, used for labour in mines, or possibly used for the grand circus games (gladiators). The ancient Macedonians [...]

Read the full comment moved East with the countless other Greek tribes who were part of their grand idea. But let me assure you the vast majority of Greek tribes around the mediterranean did not take part. To think Kiril that the ancient Greeks were but one nation and only living on the mainland from Laconia to Macedonia is wrong. By the time the likes of Philip II came along many of the other Greek tribes inhabited vast areas of the mediterranean and were unconvinced of the mainlands (Greek Peninsula)politics. As your name is of Byzantine extraction tracing its roots to constantine (a Roman emporer) you must be aware that your heritage is intricately tied to the region and not the other way round. We are Macedonians by virtue not by divine intervention.

Anonymous Koinos Nous Tue, Jan 19 2010 20:16 CET

It does strike me that Kiril might have rather a good point, especially about the dispersal of the (Greek ?) Macedonians throughout the rest of the Roman Empire in 146 BC when the Romans conquered the territory.

Dispersal of an invaded population was standard Roman practice, as Livy and Tacitus remind us. (The serfs and helots were of course left in place, as the new villas populated by Roman incomers from Italy and Gaul always needed slaves / servants.)

Anonymous Kiril Tue, Jan 19 2010 19:38 CET

Remember that the ancient Macedonians defeated the greeks before they went to defeat the rest of the world. 30K greeks fought on the persians side against alexander the great. Read the histories of Arrian & Herodutus--this is where this info comes from. Also, remember that when the romans conquered the macedonian empire, they resettled the ancient macedonians all over the roman empire. So when the slavs moved in and settled all the way into the pelopeninsula, most of that land was not very inhabited (also due to plagues). So modern Greece is a huge mixture of ethnicities, get used to [...]

Read the full comment it and stop hating everyone. And stop claiming ancestry to Alexander the Macedonian because very few have those genes that can be easily traced at this time. (ps. Alexander's mother was Albanian and he most likely was behind the assassination of his Macedonian father as most fair-minded historians will tell you.

Anonymous Aries. Tue, Jan 19 2010 13:56 CET

Slavko
Excuses!!! it always starts well
and ends the exact opposite
Like the attrocities of Meligala.
no more of tthese Ghosts
enloy your raki in Florina

Anonymous Slavko Tue, Jan 19 2010 12:56 CET

No Aries it was called SNOF originally; Slavo-Makedonski liberation front formed to assist the communist Macedonians of Greek ethnicity. Many of these people were Bulgarians living in Lerin, Meliti, Bouf, Voden. The SNOF were helpful initially but then rivalry set in among many of the leaders from different villages who wanted to side with Tito's Yugoslavs while others wanted to side with their Greek brothers. I know I was 15 then. Our communist army was made of Macedonians of Greek, Bulgarian, and Vlach background and still today in Lerin we meet to drink rakija and talk of the Greek war. [...]

Read the full comment When NOF came it was of Yugoslavs mostly not of Bulgarians from Macedonia and this is why today most of our Macedonian people still don't trust each other. My family who live in Canada now think that we are not real Macedonians because they now talk to Yugoslavs who believe they are the real Macedonians. This will be the future for all our Narod who have not come to terms with their hearts.

Anonymous xristo Tue, Jan 19 2010 12:39 CET

Ti les bre mavroudi autos o voulgaros eine malakas bre. Autoi opos ton petro oute exoune politismo, oreais gunaikes, oute oraio fagito. Ti prospathis na kaneis autoi eine barbari trone ta dika tous pedia an tous tixi kai finoun tis ginaikes yia tous albanous na gamisoun. Ase ton voulgaro bre mavroudi kai tha dis pou tha theli na sou apantisi o malakas to bodi. Oute gaidouria eine toso palava opos autoi. Ti na sou po o petros eine skopianos alla theli na eine Makedonas alla emeis eimaste panta ei arxaioi kai auto tha tous basanisi mexri to tafos tous oi [...]

Read the full comment malakes.

Anonymous Mavroudi Tue, Jan 19 2010 03:19 CET

Ela re Peco you are Voulgaro. My familia here 100 and 100s years but Peco you Voulgari come after with Servi and after Turki. In Florina my Voulgaro friend Vlado all time speak of people like you who make trouble. Vlado is good Voulgaros and he not afraid speak voulgarika to other voulgari people in Florina. I like Meliti many Makedones there but also many voulgari like Vlado. But no problem I like many voulgari people who are good good people. Maybe you to good but you speak much malakies. Vlade think many voulgari take much money from ta skopia [...]

Read the full comment maybe you too no. Aide re Peco one day you katalavis all Makedones also good people like voulgari. An exeis provlima na milas oxi na les psemata. O pseftis panta klevi ti zoi alonon.

Anonymous Aries Mon, Jan 18 2010 20:49 CET

Peter
My good old man you have asked for it. As i stated before Secret services are there to gather all information that is available from a given site and sort-merge the information gathered so to provide the administration (government) with every possible reports in order for the latter to make decisions.
When in the years 1944-1949 some took decisions for Greece to be a Moscow-Stalin satellite and when in the Florina region was was lurking the Народно Ослободителен Фронт (НОФ), Narodno Osloboditelen Front( NOF) also known as the People's Liberation Front, A COMMUNIST POLTICAL AND [...]

Read the full comment MILITARY ORGANIZATION CREATED BY THE ETHNIC MACEDONIAN MINORITY IN GREECE OPERATED FROM 1945 TO 1949 IN THE INTHE GREEK CIVIL WAR WITH THE
GOAL OF SECESSION FROM GREECE SOME HAVE THE INSOLENCE TO ASK FOR RECOGNITION.

AND BECAUSE YOUR ENGLISH IS POOR I EXPLAIN WHAT I MEANT IN EASIER ENGLISH.

YOU ARE AN UNRECOGNIZED SEPARIST ETHNIC MINORITY WHICH COULD BE CALLED WHATEVER YOU WISH EVEN MACEDONIAN,EPIROTIC,THRACIAN,
WHICH HAD THE GOAL OF SEPARATING MACEDONIA FROM GREECE AND YOU COME NOW TO ASK WITHOUT SHAME(INSOLENCE
НАХАЛCTBO) TO BE RECOGNIZED OFFICIALLY.
IT MUST BE BECAUSE AND PART OF YOUR COMMUNIST UPBRINGING MY OLD MAN

FOTIA KE TSEKOURI THELETE ORISMENI



Anonymous Koinos Nous Mon, Jan 18 2010 19:30 CET

Peter - shouldn't it be "Kalispera" / Dobry Vecer / Good Evening if you are posting at 18.00 hrs ?

Anonymous Peter Mon, Jan 18 2010 18:59 CET

Aries,for the first time you admitt there are Macedonian minority in Aegean Macedonia.Your explenation on Secret Services is not true.Read it carefuly all 9 paragraphs.But the most amaxing thing is your admittance of the existance of Macedonians,for that I lower my hat to you.Aries, I am not that old.

Anonymous Aries. Mon, Jan 18 2010 18:37 CET

Peter.

Τhe last paaragraphs is for all fur alles/pour tous/за всиски/για ολους

<<Aries,in your Greek message you are blaming the diaspora and you are compairing the "Rainbow"(Ouranio Toxo).It looks like you have read the interview of Pavle Voskopoulos on Dec.28,2008 and published on Jan.4,2010>>

Personally I do not give a dime about Voskopoulos ,Lithoxoou (the Greek Stefov) And The Vinozito( Rainbow) they are all framed under the word Revisionism.

<<You see Aries,unlike Sasha,Voskopoulos is not looking for sescecion from Greece,rather Greece to allow the [...]

Read the full comment same human rights as all citizens of Greece.The Republic of Macedonia is not looking to take over the Aegean Macedonia.>>

First of all there no such thing as “sescecio” but secession . Second the claim would be an act of lunacy as you point out. Most mildly put.

<<Compair the Armies,Greece with 240000, Macedonia with 8000.Do you think is it possible for Macedonia to attack Greece? I call that lunacy.>>

There is nothing like “Compaire” but Compare. Not only in numbers but also equipment . The Greek Air force would be hovering over Skopje in about 30 minutes but this will never happen since Gruevski and his clique ( In and out of Fyrom ) are smart enough and won’t commit suicide .

<< Greeces fear is the recognition of the Macedonian minoity.
Because,once the macedonians are recognised,Karamanlis and Droutsas cannot declair their absurd claim of being Macedonians.Just for the record,both Karamanlis a Pontious wit a Macedonian grandmother,Droutsas with an Austrian mother and Cypriot father does not make them pure Macedonians.They are both Mulato>>

My good man “declair” Is declare and “wit” is with. By the way who do you think can bloody care about what Droutsas’ and Karamanliss’ origins are What if a I told you that my great grand-father and mother from my maternal side are from Monastir (Bitola) , would any body care! of course no . About “Half-breed “ my friend in the 21 century it is very difficult not to find a half-breed we are all half-breeds they only pure breed you can find nowadays are pigmies of the Amazon the Massai of Kenya the Aborigines of Australia and some tribes of Eskimos in Lapland. And not for long.

<<‘(Tin erotisi pu su evala gia tin "Secret Services"den apandisate,giati? Maybe I did not used the english alphabet right in the transelation?. Aries,I dont take things personal,but what burnes my .... is when people are not truthfull. Most of my comments are from my past in Greece, and I know what I am saying.I am no historian I learned history in a third country that gives me my perspective from neutral point of view without the hotses eye blockers>>.

My good old man you have asked for it. As i stated before Secret services are there to gather all information that is available from a given site and sort-merge the information gathered so to provide the administration (government) with every possible reports in order for the latter to make decisions. When in the years 1944-1949 some took decisions for Greece to be a Moscow-Stalin satellite and when in the Florina region was was lurking the Народно Ослободителен Фронт (НОФ), Narodno Osloboditelen Front( NOF) also known as the People's Liberation Front, a communist political and military organization created by the ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece, operated from 1945–1949 in the Greek Civil War,with the goal of secession from Greece.Some have the insolence to ask for recognition.
As I say my friend the Sun rise in the east and sets in the west that is not Subject to any revisionism.
The rest is silent.
Good Day.

Anonymous Peter Mon, Jan 18 2010 18:11 CET

Mavroudi,I misspelled one word "DOBAR DEN"-"KALIMERA".

Anonymous Peter Mon, Jan 18 2010 18:06 CET

Mavroudi,you are not indigenouse Macedonian,I am my friend from Lerin (Florina).I dont speak Bulgarian,I speak Macedonian.Here is something fot you in Macedonian;Jas sum Makedonec,mojte prededovci od 1770 beja Makedonci.Vije sto dojdovte od Turcja ste Turci so pravoslavna religia(Pontious).Why dont you go and visit Villages like Meliti,Kalithea in Prespa,Psara in Prespa and a whoe lot more Villages who speak Macedonian,but they are afraid of loosing their jobs for declairing Macedonian ethnicity.I visited my own Village,the people I spoke to they were afraid someone will hear them speaking the Macedonian language,but when we were alone we spoke Macedonian.You can sell this bull [...]

Read the full comment to someone who has no idea what is happening there.If you go to a coffee shop try and say "Doar den" see how many peole will answer to you as "Kalimera".What it means is, they understood you.Try it,you will be amazed.Just to make sure,there are no Bulgarians in the Lerin or Kostur Bulgarians.In 1946-48 the Greeks called us Bulgarians when we spoke Macedonian,thats the Greek propaganda Greece cannot release itselve from.Greece recognises only Greeks and Muslims in Greece,and that makes you 99% pure Greeks,Are you people joking?You should not even be called "Greeks",you have no connection to the Hellens or Macedonians.The majority of Greece are Albanians.Do you think,Droutsas can claim he is Macedonian? His mother is Austrian and born in Cypres.How can he claim dual identities,but Macedonians cannot?.It is shameful what the politics does to a nation.

Anonymous Mavroudi Mon, Jan 18 2010 03:07 CET

Peter you indigenous like me but I speak Greek and you Bulgarian. My parents, grandparents, and all my progonis were born in Makedonia but they don't speak Bulgarian like you. We have all time speak Makedonika a dialect of Greek. You like think you are only Makedonas but if you live here in Greece you must be Bulgarian makedones. Here live many Bulgaria people but they are very good people not like you. You hate all people Makedoni this not good because you make trouble to good people. Many my friend all Bulgarian but we speak in local dopio dialect [...]

Read the full comment of Greek they very good people.

Anonymous Peter Mon, Jan 18 2010 00:46 CET

Pericles greece,first thing you should do is learn what Slavs means before you make a comment. It shows, you know nothing my friend.This issue has been posted in all sites on internet.To those who think the Macedonians are Bulgarians,just read what former President of Bulgaria Zhelev said reasontly about Greece.I wont waste more of my time with you or those Bulgarians who still think Macedonians are Bulgarians.I am Macedonian,I was born Macedonian, my great,great grandparents were born Macedonians,I cannot change that.

Anonymous Peter Mon, Jan 18 2010 00:20 CET

Aries,yes I have dweled on Karakasidou and Skoulariki.I have done this just to show you,you are not the only Greek who possibly knows some history or what the inteligentia of Greece thinks about the indigenouse Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia.Time after time,Greece has been told to allow the same human rights to all citizens of Greece.Greece has ignored the crys of the Macedonian and Turkish minorities.Why the hell,would anyone claim ancient democtacy as being Greek?I see no connection to ancient Hellens neither to ancient or present Macedonians.Have heard the alternate FM of Greece claiming to be Macedonian,wait a minute,he said "I [...]

Read the full comment was born Macedonian and I will die Macedonian" First off,he is a Cypriot,his mother is Austrian. This fellow is not even Greek!What you Greeks claim about purity 99%.Dont you think it is kind shameful?. Karamanlis called the Pontious the real ancient Macedonians.The question is;In what do you people believe?.You know,only the mother knows who the father is.Greece is overhelmed with xenophobia. Have a nice day!

AnonymousKoinos NousTue, Dec 01 2009 18:31 CET

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

Anonymous Stan Mon, Nov 30 2009 12:33 CET

"who lived in this area for centuries before you so-called greeks."

Interesting that could be with all these areas named after Greek words? Please explain how that came to be? I suppose Constantinople was built by the eskimos - that's what FYROM propaganda would have you believe. Skopje was translated from the Greek Skopion meaning "a lookout". Slavs came to the region 700AD - that is fact. Even Odessa in the Ukraine was an ancient Greek colony. FYROM propaganda is to find a minor detail, twist it around and build on it by repeating it over [...]

Read the full comment and over and then eventually believing it.

Anonymous Aries. Mon, Nov 23 2009 20:53 CET

Peter:
The big problem with you folks is
is that you are STUCK to
Karakassidou and Skoulariki
which added to your obssesion.


Anonymous periclis greece Mon, Nov 23 2009 16:20 CET

dear peter you speak bulgarin dialect and you say that is macedonian,you are slavs and you say you are macedonian.kiro gligorof says on greece press [p/m on fyrom the 1990]last days:we are slavs we come on this area latter from macedonian,we dont have nothing close with alexadros.so you realy now what you are?ass you say you are macedonian tell me what means macedonia you now?the propaganda from cumunist tito is not your realy history,you are slavs and you now that better then me.

Anonymous Peter Sun, Nov 22 2009 19:43 CET

Pericles greece,I speak Macedonian and to your suprise I speak greek,polish,english,some serbian and bulgarian.My question to you is;speaking these languages,what does make me as an ethnicity?You greeks claim everything that can be translated into Greek it must be Greek.Why are you fooling your selfs?I will suggest to you to read what professor Karakasidou and professor Skoulariki wrote on the Macedonian question.Untill then,please refrain your self from making uninformed foolish statements.To the point,Bulgaria knows that the Macedonians are different than themselfs,but connected by one alphabet which is the Cyrilic and Macedonian.

Anonymouspericlis greeceSat, Nov 21 2009 05:10 CET

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content

Anonymous Koinos Nous Fri, Nov 20 2009 14:00 CET

Periclis - when you write:

<<look for other mythos too >>

I take it you are referring to that excellent Greek "Mythos" beer ? Probably the most sensible thing you have posted so far !

Anonymous periclis greece Thu, Nov 19 2009 17:15 CET

peter [a realy macedonian name]you speak bulgarian diallect,you have slavic name,butt you are macedonian a thik you nead doctor.the slavic come on this area LATTER this is clear,macedonian speak greec,have greec name,olso this is clear by historic,and not from tito cumunist propagant.visit the vergina too see the realy macedonian,why you cancel your realy nasionality like slavs???macedonian you born and you born slavs,look for other mythos too live,be prout like your realy nasionality,you now better then me you are slavs,check your name your languats,nothing with macedonia,stop too play the game of fasistic gruevski you dont win nothing,you lose energy too make [...]

Read the full comment the lies, true and the propagant realy history,you dont see??kiro gligorof [presiden on fyrom or vardaska on 1993]says on greece press 30 days ago:we are slavs we come on this area latter we dont have nothing close with alexadros we are not macedonian.so what you nead too see open??is very simple visit the vergina and see,this mythos is just propagant,be surius you never be macedonian,you realy now what means macedonia??

Anonymous periclis greece Thu, Nov 19 2009 16:25 CET

peter [a realy macedonian name]you speak bulgarian diallect,you have slavic name,butt you are macedonian a thik you nead doctor.the slavic come on this area LATTER this is clear,macedonian speak greec,have greec name,olso this is clear by historic,and not from tito cumunist propagant.visit the vergina too see the realy macedonian,why you cancel your realy nasionality like slavs???macedonian you born and you born slavs,look for other mythos too live,be prout like your realy nasionality,you now better then me you are slavs,check your name your languats,nothing with macedonia,stop too play the game of fasistic gruevski you dont win nothing,you lose energy too make [...]

Read the full comment the lies, true and the propagant realy history,you dont see??kiro gligorof [presiden on fyrom or vardaska on 1993]says on greece press 30 days ago:we are slavs we come on this area latter we dont have nothing close with alexadros we are not macedonian.so what you nead too see open??is very simple visit the vergina and see,this mythos is just propagant,be surius you never be macedonian,you realy now what means macedonia??

Anonymous Peter Wed, Nov 18 2009 18:52 CET

Periclis-greece,you dont know what you are talking.How many times do I or other Macedonians are telling you that we speak slavic language,but we are Macedonians who lived in this area for centuries before you so-called greeks.You are a mixture of different peoples,you are not connected to ancient Hellens.So stop pretending you are even a greek.The slavic language is spoken in Russia,Poland,Slovakia,Serbia and Bulgaria.Does this make them Slavo Bulgarians etc.?This kind of thetoric used by Greece is to fabricate the history that realy belongs to the Macedonians. Valeri,we are Macedonians because we live in the geographical Macedonia and that makes us [...]

Read the full comment Macedonians.The Turks are called Turks because they live in Turkey,you are called Bulgarian you live in the geographical area called Bulgaria.Americans are Americans because it is America.Gotse Delchev was killed by the Ottomans because a Greek spie did coloborated with the Turks.Jane Sandanski was assasinated by the Bulgarians in 1915.Your argument on geography you can flash it down the toilet.

Anonymous 1 Sat, Nov 14 2009 20:59 CET

Valeri,you are mudding the truth my dear.If I say to you,you are not Bulgarian,what will you say to me?Your answer will be,I am Bulgarian.Dont you think I have the same right to say I am Macedonian?history tells us that the Macedonians fought the Ottomans for our freedom.The problem was,Bulgarians and the Greeks did co-operated againts the Macedonians.Look,all you have to take a look in historical content.The Greek PM in 1903 told the New York Times that, they co-operated with the Ottomans againts the Macedonian revolutionaries.Up untill 1915 Bulgaria was hunting the Macedonian revolutionaries.I wonder why!Further,the Macedonians who were expelled from [...]

Read the full comment Greece in the 1922-26 to Bulgaria have been setled in the Macedonian part of Bulgaria.Have you not heard the "Omo Ilinden" in the Pirin Macedonia who want their rights restored in Bulgaria?Same goes without saying in Greece with the "Vino Zito"?I have said before that,You want us to call ourselfs Bulgarians,but the Greeks claim we are Greek,who is right?Ill tell you who is right,we the Macedonians who are neither Bulgarians nor Greeks but we are MACEDONIANS!.

Anonymous Boris Sat, Nov 14 2009 09:59 CET

Poor true Makedonski you don't express your true Makedonski feeling be a man and rise above your stupidity we are Macedonians who have brought the light to the world not the stupid.

Anonymous*******Fri, Nov 13 2009 13:44 CET

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Anonymous periclis greece Thu, Nov 12 2009 19:37 CET

PETER ON FYROM THE LIVE SLAVS LIKE ALL AREA,THERE IS NOT MACEDONIAN,JUST STEAL OR HISTORY,SLAVS COME ON THIS AREA A MILENIUM AFTER ALEXANDROS DIES.MACEDONIAN THE SPEAK GREECE,HAVE GREECE NAMES,IT WASS GREECE,SO ON GREECE PART IS THE ORIGINAL MACEDONIAN.

Anonymous Valeri Thu, Nov 12 2009 00:38 CET

Peter,
Macedonia is a region, not a nationality.

People in the Pirin region are 100% Bulgarian as were all of the Slavs in FYROM before Tito and the name changes.
Gotse Delchev is a Bulgarian. So is Sandanski.
This Yugoslav sickness of 19 style century ethnic and territorial greed has brought them nothing but deaths and poverty.
I've always feared that they will spread it to our door steps, and apparently the Greeks were right to block them at every step.
I was always at a [...]

Read the full comment loss to understand the Greek attitude towards FYROM but now I see the big picture.
Ex-Yugoslavs should be quarantined so not to spread the virus, until they are de-Yugoslavinized with time...

Anonymous usa Wed, Nov 11 2009 13:18 CET

why remove all comments Sofia Echo, talk about "freedom of speech".

Anonymous periclis greece Tue, Nov 10 2009 19:26 CET

too all fyromanian, what means macedonia you now;;;;;;;propagant is over,the game is over.you nead doctor very soon,your langoits is bulgarian diallect,macedonian speak greec there is so siple,go too vergina and see stop lies stop too steal,you are slavs and you now this better then me.

Anonymous Peter Tue, Nov 10 2009 17:54 CET

Valeri,with due respect,Macedonians in Pirin Macedonia are Macedonians same as in Northern Greece and in the Republic of Macedonia.Greece expelled a large amount of Macedonians to Bulgaria to accomodate the Pontious people comming from Turkey.More importently,the indigenouse people of Pirin are Macedonians,defenetly not Bulgarians.Please, stick to the truth.

Anonymous Reader Sat, Nov 07 2009 12:42 CET

Valeri -

Exactly so ! When you say:

<< Makedonia is a geographical term, not ethnic. >>

this is actually the key to solving the entire "Macedonia" issue, especially under the "Northern Macedonia" name.

If only Greece would see this....mind you, Gruevski is a fool too.

Anonymous Valeri Fri, Nov 06 2009 23:21 CET

Except that people living in Pirin region are Bulgarians, not so called Makedonians.
Makedonia is a geographical term, not ethnic.

Anonymous Reader Fri, Nov 06 2009 21:25 CET

On this occasion, I think Peter is entirely right. Any visiting VIP / Minister from a "source country" for the "emigracija" is going to play to his briefly-present audience, and this is quite normal and explicable.

(US politicians visiting Ireland - and claiming some Irish blood - did it shamelessly. Kennedy did it the most, and Reagan with the least credibility.)

Anonymous Peter Fri, Nov 06 2009 18:59 CET

Gruevskis statement in Australia was right on.The whole world has immigrants to different countries,and when an official travels to these States they all talk to their people as being same people.When a Bulgarian Minister goes abroad,he speaks to the Bulgarian people wheather directly from Bulgaria or ones who live in Macedonia or any other country.Bulgaria and Greece should not feel offended by Gruevskis statement.It is only natural to address people who belong to the same ethnicity.

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We are solving Bulgaria's demographic crisis - Bozhidar Dimitrov

"Seventy per cent of ethnic Bulgarians abroad want to come to Bulgaria," Bulgarian Minister without Portfolio Dimitrov said.

Regional fallout from Macedonia name dispute

Media reports say that the EU will pressure Athens and Skopje to come up with a solution to the Macedonia name dispute by December 7, or Brussels will take a cooler approach to Macedonia’s EU hopes; while a row breaks out in Belgrade after Serbia’s foreign minister takes sides in the dispute.

Serbia speaks on Macedonia name dispute – reports

Greece’s alternate foreign minister Dimitris Droutsas in talks in Belgrade at the start of a Western Balkans tour.

Bulgaria’s support for Macedonia conditional on its behaviour – Borissov

Bulgarian PM Boiko Borissov and visiting Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski agree that their countries’ relations are ‘friendly and fraternal’ but Borissov warns that Sofia’s support for Skopje depends on Macedonia keeping to the rules of good neighbourliness.

Macedonian PM Gruevski in Bulgaria

Macedonia, hoping for Bulgarian support for its potential EU accession process, was expected to hear tough talk from Sofia on a change of attitudes towards Bulgarians.

Macedonian, Greek prime ministers ‘break the ice’ in name dispute talks

Greek prime minister George Papandreou and his Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski met for more than an hour in Brussels, agreeing that it was essential to find a solution to the dispute over the name Macedonia.

Gruevski's words on Macedonian unity are unacceptable, Bulgarian President says

Bulgarian support for Macedonia's EU membership is not unconditional and depends on all territorial claims being immediately withdrawn, Georgi Purvanov says in Australia.

EU pressing for resolution of Macedonia name dispute

European Union representatives are urging Skopje to use the current ‘positive atmosphere’ to achieve a compromise with Athens about the use of the name Macedonia, and oppose Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski’s plan to hold a referendum on the question, media reports say.

Solving the name dispute is key to Macedonia’s EU hopes

The European Commission’s report recommending the opening of EU accession negotiations with Skopje sparked cheering in Macedonia, but there are few signs that the name issue will be any easier than before.

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Reshuffle in Romania

New prime minister-designate faces task of rehabilitating image of ruling party with cabinet of second-stringers.

Greece reaches accord on austerity demands from its lenders

Greece needs the aid package from the European Union, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund in order to avoid defaulting on $19 billion in bond payments due in March.

Greek party leaders move closer to deal on more spending cuts

Talks broke up early February 9 2012 with only one outstanding issue remaining.

CVM update urges Romania to continue judiciary reform

Interirm report praised Romania for continuing to pursue high-profile corruption cases and new legislation, but urged more action on reforming the judicial system and the confiscation of assets acquired through illegal means.

Turkey debates its role in possible Syria intervention

Turkey hardens stance against Syria, its Western allies increasingly looking to Ankara for help to unseat Assad