.....sorry that should read 30yrs after his death.

Tacitus actually died around 120 ad

I don't know how he would have written about something 70yrs after his death.

Are you sure you never read this info from a FYRoM history book?

Periclis - "mathematics" may be a Greek word, but you ignore its basic rules.

It was much less than 1000 years after Alexander's death that the Slavs invaded Macedonia - the first reference is in Tacitus (150 AD), which makes it 486 years.

(Unless of course, you are a waiter in a Greek restaurant rounding up the bill to the nearest 1000 drachmae, which is how 486 becomes 1000 !)

dear 1 you are slavs butt you are macedonian olso,nice story,you realy nead doctor.the slavs come on this area a millenum AFTER alexandros dies,this is CLEAR??the macedonian speak greece and have greece name,check your name,your languits nothink close too macedonian.STOP LIVE WITH TITO FANTASMA,THIS PROPAGANT IS FROM 1945,TODAY WE HAVE 2009,LOOK THE FUTURE.ABOUT TURKS IT WASS HERE 400 YEARS,SO THE TURKS OLSO HAVE LITLE OF THE GREECE CULTURE SO WHAT???IN TURKEY STILL SOME SPEAK GREECE,YOU SEE THE LAST NEWS ON PRESS?REALY PRESS NOT YOUR,WITH THIS STORY YOU LIKE TOO SAY WHAT?THE MODERN GREECE IS TURKEY?THIS IS FOR VERY IDIOT AND I AM NOT.SORRY BUTT LOOK FOR OTHER MYTHOS TOO LIVE.BE RPOUT LIKE YOUR REALY NASIONALITY,AND THIS IS NOT THE MACEDONIAN,BECAUSE IT WASS GREECE.

To Periclis greece.So you do understand that we the Macedonians are not Greek EH?Your claim of us speaking slavic is 100% correct my friend.Slavic language does not mean you are a slav,it is the language,same as English in America,Scotland,or french in Moroco does not make the Morocans French,or Russians,Serbians Poles as slavs.Are you able to differentiate the differance?Yes, we do have a connection to Alexander the Great and here is a sample;The Unzi people use worda like VADI-Watering,VERNE-Raining,TURGA-Pushing,Gazi-Steping.Do these words exist in the Greek language?We the Macedonians have a connection with our past,do you have a connection with the Hellens? My answer to you is apsolutly none.Gruevskis words of unity are appropriate.Every official of a country going abroad use the same language.Macedonians in Greece,Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia are the same people who speak the same language,worship in the same church and have the same customs.It seams to me,you Greeks if you can transalate a word to greek,you think it is greek.I have news for you,you use Turkish words like;MEZE and many more.If you like to findout more I would be more than glad to tell you.

stay and play the game of the fasitsic gruefski,he dont lose nothing,you lose,no NATO,no E.U.you are not macedonian you liket or not,tell me whatt means macedonia you realy now????????????????????????????????

Let's start by looking at what Greece got RIGHT, and what Greece got WRONG.

First, Greece registered the Star/Sun of Vergina under the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organisation) rules in the 1990s.

This forced Macedonia to change its flag virtually immediately.

Therefore Greece got this RIGHT.

But it then provoked Macedonia into taking the name issue to the International Court of Justice. Greece's lawyers then let Macedonia put their case first.

Greece got this WRONG.

No wonder Athens now nervously awaits the ICJ proceedings in January 2010. It is well over 50% likely that it will lose the case, even if only on procedural grounds.

Greece got that WRONG again.

Meanwhile, the WIPO link to remind us of the one time that Greece got it RIGHT:

http://www.wipo.int/lisbon/en/

The Greek government should register Megalos Alexandros / Alex the Great and his historical empire as "Intellectual Property" of Greece . This would stop Skopje doing stupid things like erecting statues and re-naming airports, and would also bring in international opinion on the Greek side (which currently it isn't).

And this would be a respected international body doing this, not just Greece on its own.

Good idea for Greece ? RIGHT.

Are you listening, Kyrie Papandreou ?

Periclis -

Somebody should tell you that the Question Mark in English is ?????, and not (as in Greek) ;;;;;;;

before 1913 there is contry with macedonia name;;;;;in your dream;;;i aske you very simple think,tell me whatt means macedonia you now;;;;;;tito give you this name the 1945,if you now.visit vergina and then you see the realy macedonia.your propagant is over the game is over.macedonian speak greece and have greece name,because is greece,stop believ on tito story,you are slavs and you now this better then me.

to the 1.you thing you are macedonian,tell me whatt means macedonia you realy now;;;;;;the coin have two side,one side is your propagant,and the other is the true,that true is you are slavs because you born slavs,your name is slavic,your languits is slavic[bulgarin-serbian diallect]nothing with macedonian.check your name your languits so simple,we are not idiot please.only in your dream you be macedonian.

We the Macedonians,like any free State are asking for our history to be restored to our people.We are not in the fabrication business like our occupiers(Bulgaria & Greece).We want whats ours,no more no less.Those of you who are pretending that we the Macedonians are Greek or Bulgarian are the biggest liers.Gruevskis comments in Australia were right on.We feel to be Macedonians,this is what we are.Ethnicity does not change,our borders were changed by the Big Powers in 1913 illigaly whithout the people of Macedonias consent.When I go to my church,I find Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia,Pirin Macedonia and from the Republic of Macedonia together praying,speak the same language,same customs and we dance to the same tune of music.Dont you think,we are one and same people? Here is the biggest problem for Papandreou and Parvanov,they both claiming the Macedonian history.I have news for them,we are Macedonians fron all four corners of the geographical Macedonia.Stop the lies to your own people.

As things stand now, the greek veto on FYROM is sure at 90%. FYROM does not want to negociate about the name. They want to try to enter EU without negociate this problem. That is clearly obvious...But no escape is possible. That is why: VETO!

GREECE VETO TOO FYROM,AND FRANCE,GERMANY VETO TOO TURCEY,SO SIMPLE.

Colin said (on an unrelated website):

<<In my opinion it is far better discussion group practice to attack or question an opinion and comments than attack an individual!

best wishes,
Colin
who has been participating in internet discussion groups since 1996! >>

I couldn't agree more !

Moderators - hope you approve (some of us really are on your side, though it may not always look like it !)

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Veto - that was the solution before the Lisbon Treaty. Now Greece will have to persuade a "qualified majority" of other member-states to support it, otherwise it loses the previous veto that it had.

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I hope no one thinks the right to veto a countries accession will be gone due to the Lisbon Treaty? That provision has actually been left out due to the fact that most EU members did not want to centralize that kind of decision making. Moreover, do you think Greece would have signed the Lisbon Treaty if they had to relinquish their right to veto Turkey or FYROM? I don't think so.

The Lisbon Treaty is now in force at last - HOORAY !

Goodbye national vetos, goodbye stagnation, Hello Progress (AT LONG LAST )!

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<<...there is no moral reason to always go for revisionist 'historians' on the fyrom issue, the ones that Gruevski loves (and from your other posts it seems you do to). Good science doesn't question solid theories on basis of flimsy ones. Karamanlis is also respected by centre left for his stance on this issue; he was right; lies don't change history, they just annoy historians.>>

http://sofiaecho.com/2009/10/19/801679_serbia-slams-macedonias-establishment-of-diplomatic-relations-with-kosovo

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Loo what the clown writed about ICJ and Greece!!!hahahahahah!whats wrong with this people what they did to them is amazing!!How much more desperated a person can be im wondering!!!

Please remove Greg's posts for foul, abusive and discriminative behaviour!

What possible moral high-ground could "shove it David" be coming from?

Shove it david

Can you tell me who David is and why you don't like him so that I can make my own assessment?

Janet, my girl 'already', does that indicate you are Of The Old Faith ? Have you had your bat mitzvah yet ?

Shalom alechem

Oh for crying out loud david now you are pretending to be "1"???? GET A LIFE!!!!

Moderators when will you take away our misery and block this old man already!

It's all your fault for trying to steal the name "Macedonia" from us...but don't worry we shall get it back here in the beautiful Aegean Macedonia -- ocean is lovely this time of year: you should visit -- as your atrocities against the name "Macedonia" will soon be over!

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EXTRA!! EXTRA!!!!

International Court of Justice (ICJ) says Macedonia/Greece case has wider implications for developing nations escaping from former colonial masters: See ICJ document here:

http://www.gtmun.org/documents/2009/ICJ/ICJ-Intros.pdf

Question is: is Papanadreou nervous about result of ICJ hearing of Greece's case in January 2010 ? (ICJ has already heard Macedonia's case in mid-2009).

Does this influence timing of Papandreou's "rapprochement" with Gruevski, i.e. to sort it all out bilaterally before the ICJ eventually finds against Greece ?

If Greece and Macedonia agree a 'deal' (i.e. bilateral agreement) before the ICJ concludes its case in mid-2010 or earlier, then Macedonia (as plaintiff) can request the ICJ to drop the case forthwith.

It does look as if, for Greece, the clock is ticking. And Papandreou (unlike Karamanlis and Bakonyannis) is a shrewd enough old hand to realise this; there are advantages to having been Foreign Minister before !

you scops are a constant source of entertainment. I mean that. Keep your head in the sand. I'm enjoying it.

It is not my fault you stole Pirin Macedonia from us...but dont worry we shall get it back along with Aegean Macedonia. The atrocities against Macedonia will soon be over!

Piss off "Observer",

Let "AP" express him or herself however he or she wants.

Worry about your own points of view, because at present, they are piss-weak -- piss-weak like you!

The Republic of Macedonia shall be united with Pirin and Aegean Macedonia in 2013 when the Treaty of Bucharest expires. Bulgaria and Greece are preparing for the handover of these lands to Macedonia as we speak which is why the PM of Greece suspended the ministry of Macedonia in northern greece.

United Macedonia shall become a Great Nation of the world!

EXTRA !! EXTRA !!

FORMER GREEK PREMIER KARAMANLIS ARRESTED FOR EURO-FRAUD, ALSO FOR FALSIFYING DOCUMENTS IN INTERNATIONAL COURT CASE ABOUT FYROM.

READ ALL ABOUT IT IN THE TIMES.

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You read it here first.

AP IS TOTAL FRUIT-AND-NUT CASE

(source: Reuters 30/10/09 )

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FRYOM -not Republic of Macedonia!
Description- pieces of land bellonging to Greece,Bulgaria and Serbia- assembeled in to one.
A lot of confused citizens with NO language of their own, NO alphabet of their own, and NO history prior to 1800 of their own-appart from what their nationalist goverment steals from other neigbouring countries!
Gruevski's suporters should learn to read independant history archives and books, in the vain hope to learn something aside from brain -washed twisted history!

EXTRA ! EXTRA !

AP ARRESTED AS NUTCASE IN SALONIKA, GREECE.

ONLY WEARING BARREL AND SPEAKING GREEK.

SAID HE WAS DIOGENES, ANCIENT GREEK SOOTHSAYER.

LOCAL WOMEN COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS EXCESSIVE NUDITY AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE LANGUAGE

..END..

Reuters, Fri 10/30/09

ebiti te se site MAKEDONSKI dushmani ! nikoj nishto ne ni moze ! sme izdrzale i poloshi raboti, ke izdrzeme ushte nekoja godina ! Makedonsko ime NE menuvame NIKOGASH , toa slobodno mozete da go znaete site ! MAKEDONCI - REPUBLIKA MAKEDONIJA !

This is what Eugene Borza (who was a professor emeritus of ancient history at University of Chicago, Department of History) says:

<<We challenge Mrs. Alexovska, Mr. Stefov, Mr. Gandeto and any other FYROM propagandist to find us at least one single mention of a distinct "Macedonian ethnicity" by any foreign traveler, journalist, author etc who visited Macedonia prior to 1870 and recorded the various ethnicities he found there dwelling.

If the "Macedonian ethnicity" existed for centuries in the Balkans and constituted the majority of the population in Macedonia (as all the FYROM propagandists believe), how is it that it was never recorded during the 19th century by any eyewitness who came across Macedonia and left a written account describing the various ethnicities of whom its population consisted?

Why is it that till 1911, neither a distinct Macedonian ethnicity was recorded by the American Immigrant Commission, nor a distinct Macedonian language, separate from the Bulgarian one?>>

http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/view/105688

To the Moderator
with all respects

Yes the truth is always abusive

Unless your grandfather is Greek, he is not Macedonian; he has been duped; and you have to; open up a history book; you are in a rich country with some good scholars up there; why not use them.

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My father is Macedonian and I am a first generation Canadian living in Canada. I am proud of my heritage and I have been to Macedonia and other countries in the region on several occasions. I have read through the comments in this discussion thread and all I hear is bickering and complaining and whining and the back and forth rhetoric, etc...It never ends. It's like children in a playground. I understand the need for a national identity and the struggle has always been a challenge in the post-Yugoslavia years. I must admit it is a bit embarrassing really. I know I will get criticized by someone in here for being a stupid Canadian that has no idea about the struggle and cannot comprehend what this fight for a national identity means, but I'm sure some people reading will think it is a silly thing arguing about a name! Really! Think about it! The games thaat have been played over the years by both Governments. (Greece and Macedonian)

I have said what I needed to say. Not much substance in my words, merely a comment on the futility of these ongoing deliberations.

AP thanks for the information on Pontus, that confirms my idea that you Greeks filled Northern Greece with 1,000,000 Pontians Greeks from 1923 to 1926!!

Sorry my Greek friend about my poor grammer, but my predictions are still true. Kostas lost the election and your economy is falling apart!!

We wouldn't unite with the yugos over the border. Our macedonian heritage stays on this side of the border at Voden with our bulgarian brothers over in bulgaria. The stupid Yugis think they are antiquity people LOL. You know the stupid girl Danielle from canada or Australia, the sill girl think she and her yuogis are 4000 years old. This is the very best joke we in macedonia have heard. Everytime this stupid Gruevski open his mouth he make silly comments he think he speak for everyone but he really only speak for yugos and probably only some of them we read that the Macedonian Youth don't like him either. Many of this young people in yugos say they hold their bulgarian roots this is good. Gruevski is probably only have little time left as leader of yugis, soon maybe another bulgarian wiil be leader.

Whats left when a Makedonski takes a shower. Of course a Makedonska/

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FYROM boy - "the world powers" in your head don't count as real either, because they are only in your head, and nowhere else!

FYROM either learns the easy way, or the Milosevic Serb nationalist extremist way..

By dodging NATO bombs!

gia lipisi ine i voriogitonesmas foukarades ksipoliti vlakes boudalades gia lipisi isteafou den mporite na katalavete ti sas len den mporite na iselthete stin europi an den sas kanoun to oriste ellada ke bukgaria ke eki epimenete otan tha mpoume stin europi ma stin europi den mporite na mpite skata ehi to kefalisas gia mialo

“I have always told our neighbors from Macedonia that if they are headed for membership in the EU and NATO, they must read what values those organizations espouse. These values are: an Europe without borders, an Europe of good neighborliness, an Europe where problems are solved with peace, understanding, and tolerance, not with statements such as that of PM Gruevski,” Borisov said before the meeting of the EU government heads from the European People’s Party.

lol guess these VALUES only apply to Macedonia,once RoM gets in the EU well see a change in attitude from greece,bulgaria but now while RoM isnt in the EU these 2 country's are trying to assert some sort of regianol authority like Bulgaria& Greece are 2 really important country's in europe there opinion matters! lol
Macedonia has the backing of the world powers so bulgaria and greece can talk all they want they know they cant do anything just talk crap every chance they get.

"Cleopatra" - you are an old, senile, Pommy bloke who tucks it between his legs before he sits down at the computer to play an Ancient Egyptian female of Greek-Macedonian decent..

Stay out of our affairs.

Enough of your divide and conquer bald-patch fantasies!

Give back our lands and we will forgive Bulgaria and Greece or may you feel threatened when our soldiers feet move

Aegean Macedonia first, Pirin Second. Then we strike at Albania. Go Gruev!

One day Albanian Skopje will reunite with Albania! Albanians have been here longer than you Slavs!

I'm sorry but the only Macedonians that live together are the ones in the Greek district Melbourne. Australia doesn't even recognise your fake name. You will change your name or suffer the wrath of your growing Albanian population.

wow you bulgars are rly stupid in australia all macedonians live together in europe they dont which is the truth! he didnt say anything about territorial claims,
for the love of god plz bulgaria&greece need to relax dont matter what they say about macedonia history/this and that blah blah blah there not gonna lose any territory cause thats what it comes down to, thats what these 2 country's are most afraid of is the macedonians in bulgaria& greece finally waking up and fight for there rights to be macedonian fully regcognized culture/language/religion like in most modern country's today with a multi ethnic society!
that day will come my balkan brothers!!!!!!!!!!

As long as you people claim there is an Aegean and Pirin Macedonia that belongs to you then let us now say there is an Illyria Skopje that belongs to your growing Albanian population, there is an Albanian Skopje which belongs to Albania, A Bulgarian Skopje which is a part that belongs to Bulgaria, a Serbian Skopje which is a part that belongs to Serbia and finally a Greek Skopje which belongs to Greece (Bitola).

Shut up and smarten up or get partitioned

Definitely this country is ruling by a clown, a "karagiozis" I should say. He is still dreaming of a "Great-Unified Macedonia", when it will never happen, at least in the EU environnment.

After 20 years:
Question
What's left when dirty macedonian take a shower?

Answer:pure albanian and dirty water.
After 40 years:
No more macedonians ,no more questions

Gruevski is destroying you people and you cant even see it coming..what a big mess you are really..im so sorry for what is happening to you people but i hve to say that you deserve it..

Prediction

i hope the name will be solved in 2010 and finally you people will have a nationality a language and a name for your country.But i dont think that this will happen.We will just have to wait another 10 years to have a good conversation with the Albanian goverment that you will have or the Bulgarian it depents.Btw its not Pontic its Pontian.Its an area that is habbited ONLY by Greeks from the time of Odisseas.The name of the area was and is Euksinos Pontos that in ancient Greek means Hospitable Sea.Educate yourself Turkoslav open your eyes at last!!Btw im not Pontian im Macedonian therefore im Greek!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus

AP you won't have to wait to 2020 because the name issue will be solved by 2010 and Macedonians will be able to call Greeks their true name Pontic turks.

Cleopatra
In the word of "ARIES"
SUMMON THE STAKEHOLDERS THE ZOMBIES ARE BACK.
In the words of another good friend
"you are at ends with the Greeks do not fuss aroun with the Albanians if you wish to survive"

To those who dissagree with the Prime Minister of Macedonia,please read the comments by;Kosturchanets,Kavacic and Influence.All three are right on.It is Parvanov who is interfeering with Macedonian people.Once Macedonia joins the EU and NATO the borders will become useles.

2020

Clearly neither of you lot has ever managed an on-line server !
We're not talking bytes but terabytes. (Your comments remind me of trying to manage COBOL program applications on an IBM 360 - you know, the one that had two sets of handles for support staff to carry it to a better location if the original one got flooded ! I think the RAM was a whole 356 KB, if I am not mistaken.)

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If AP is taking up valuable server space, than S.E. has to look at the B.S. that comes out of FYROMIANS. I did not know they are now judging the comments. Oh, and in case you did not know Cleopatra, each character is 1 byte. I highly doubt the S.E. is worried about a large comment. Have you not seen their site? Are you staring at it now? BOO... Didnt mean to wake you... up to reality.

Oh AP - do shut up. We've all got your pseudo-dramatic message by now, and you're just taking up valuable server space on the Sofia Echo site that might better be devoted to other topics.

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What's left when a dirty Bulgarian takes a shower? Lots of dirty water and a clean Tatar.

What's hapening when one macedonian take a shower?

Answer:Pure bulgarian and dirty water

Gruevski is just speaking the truth here and, obviously, it hurts (the greeks and bulgarians).

Mr Parvanov is not learnd of the throuth.Those are fals claims,Im one of those frome the Aegean part of Macedonia.

Goran is quite right, AP : if you don't take those tablets exactly as prescribed, and stick to precise times to take them, you can have hallucinations.

Some of these hallucinations you appear to have posted here.....

The one you have missed out is when the northern Republic of Macedonia manages to invade Solun/ Thessaloniki and captures the White Tower. Equally (un)realistic...

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Bravo AP your insults show how vulgar Greeks are and the the world has noticed. Long live one Macedonia.

Protestni pisma moze da izpratete
na address:

Посолство на Република Македония

Канцелария:

София, ул."Фредерик Жолио-Кюри" 17, бл.2, ап.1/5

Тел.: 870 15 60, 870 50 98; факс: 971 28 32

E-mail: mailto:sofia@mfa.gov.mk

Работно време: 08.30 - 16.30 часа

Gruevski is not "dangerous", Jacques, but he was very unwise politically to say what he did (a) given the state of the "name" negotiations with Greece, and (b) given latent sensitivities with Bulgaria and even maybe Serbia, as the Bulgarian President has very rightly said.

If ever there was somebody who could "make the Cold War boiling hot" (originally said about Kruschev), it is Gruevski.

None of what Gruevski said has anything to do with territory...it has to do with people...

Artificial borders erected in 1913 will come down once the ROM enters the EU...

What will happen is free movement and free expression of the Macedonian people who were artificially divided...

No harm in that is there?

AP
Keep telling your stories. You should check if you took your medicine lately.

Why is the big fass? Macedonians living in Pirin regions have always identified them shelves as Macedonian nationality, and also those living in Macedonian Province in Greece. When these people live their country of origin to another third country naturally, they organize them selves as a Macedonian community. Let's not forget that this also applies to Bulgarians living in other countries. I'm sure all Bulgars living in Australia from different countries also organize them selves as Bulgarian community, rather than identifying them selves with the country of their origin.

"Just ask Stefan Stambulov and Alexander Stamboliski - former Bulgarian prime ministers - what happens to you when you keep disrespecting Macedonians".

They get their hands chopped off in the case of Stambulov. It's good to see how some people have moved on into the 21st century

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I just hope Bulgaria an Albania wake up and dispute as much as Greece does. There is reason. Unless of course they want their land stolen from FYROM.

Play hush with Bulgaria, tease Albania and let Greece take the hit. Eventually their lands will be ours. Bravo Gruevski.

Georgi Parvanov get over it mate

Bravo Nikola Gruevski, you stated a truth in a nation that allows the truth to be told and for people to live in harmony. Parvanov should return to the Soviet Satellite gulag that is the discredited athiest communist state of Bulgaria. When we want your opinion Parvanov, we will ask for it. Just ask Stefan Stambulov and Alexander Stamboliski - former Bulgarian prime ministers - what happens to you when you keep disrespecting Macedonians. Bog, Nacia, Organizacia!

im not sure why is purvanov making a big deal out of it,australia is an opened country,and by the way aegean and pirin were one stage macedonia,the macedonians lived there for centuries,there is nothing territorial to it,the day will come when bulgaria and greece end up with the truth,its not over yet :)

Mr Gruevski just mentioned that Australia is a nice place to live, where there are no nationalist fanatics and people can easy speak to each other no matter if they come from parts of Greece, Bulgaria or Macedonia. And then, somebody complains about this statement. Does Mr Purvanov feel discomfort because of the fact that the freedom of the people in the Australian society is outside of his petty nationalistic influence?

Well said Georgi Purvanov
Gruevski is dangerous and should
be silenced for the unacceptable claims, Mussoloni also wanted to revive ancient Rome.