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Fri, Feb 10 2012
Athens and abroad
FOREIGN AFFAIRS: George Papandreou, Greece’s new prime minister, was praised when foreign minister in a previous government for building reconciliation with Turkey, and his election success has raised cautious hopes of new breakthroughs in disputes with some of Greece’s neighbours.
The announcement that the election victory of centre-left Pasok would bring George Papandreou into office as prime minister of Greece prompted celebration among some on the streets of Turkey’s major cities.
In a previous Pasok government, Papandreou was foreign minister, and was credited for working with his then-counterpart in Ankara, Ismail Cem, to achieve major progress in reconciliation between Greece and Turkey.
Countries that have a very close interest in Greece’s foreign policy – Turkey, Cyprus and Macedonia, along with EU hopefuls in the Western Balkans keen to see the attitude that Papandreou will take in office towards expansion of the bloc – are well aware that the first priority facing the new government will be the economic crisis, but are hopeful that the change in leadership in Athens will see progress on long-standing disputes.
Inextricably tied to relations with Ankara is the question of Cyprus, and Papandreou said during his election campaign that after taking office his first visit would be to Nicosia.
Papandreou regards the 2004 Kofi Annan plan for resolving the Cyprus impasse as dead, but, going by statements made on the campaign trail, hopes to see more decisive action by Turkey to allow the negotiations between Cyprus president Dimitris Christofias and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat to make progress.
The fact that Papandreou is making a priority of visiting Nicosia before the December 2009 summit at which EU leaders will discuss Turkey’s accession bid is seen as a signal that his government will be prepared to invest effort in clearing away an issue that has been a serious obstacle in bilateral relations and that has complicated Turkey’s EU hopes.
Ankara
October 14 sees the release of a European Commission report on Turkey’s progress towards suitability for EU membership.
The previous Greek government made support for Turkey’s EU bid conditional on progress in regard to Cyprus and on other issues, and it was not expected that this "conditional" approach, known as the right of veto, would change much under Papandreou – unless both capitals rapidly seized the opening to find a way out of long-running disputes, including Athens’s anger about Turkish incursions into air space claimed by Greece and its EU-level protests about Turkey failing to do enough to curb illegal immigrants making their way towards continental Europe, frequently via Greek shores.
Writing in Turkish daily Hurriyet, before the October 4 election in Greece, politics professor Dimitris Tsarouhas said that it was to be expected that a Pasok administration would pursue a more active diplomatic effort in the bilateral relationship.
"Should a potential Pasok government find a reliable partner across the Aegean, a comprehensive effort to discuss highly political differences between both sides is not to be ruled out," Tsarouhas said.
Skopje
Then there is the epic dispute between Athens and Skopje about the use of the name Macedonia.
During the election campaign, Papandreou indicated that he would take an approach more conciliatory towards the former Yugoslav republic to achieve a result to end the dispute, which has defied attempts by the United Nations to broker a compromise and is an emotional domestic political issue for Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski’s government.
Because of the dispute, Greece blocked an invitation to Macedonia to join Nato and similarly will not ally itself to Skopje’s EU hopes until the impasse is ended. The dispute is also the subject of international court action by Skopje against Athens.
Within Greece, there has been a strong national consensus on the Macedonia name dispute. After the Pasok election victory, Skopje-based daily Vecer said that things could not get worse, and at least negotiations to achieve a compromise would become more intensive.
Western Balkans
Apart from Western Balkans states that hope to join the EU eagerly watching the position to be taken by the Papandreou government, Serbia had an especial interest in whether the new government would change Athens’s position on Kosovo.
Greece, with Cyprus, Romania, Slovakia and Spain, is one of five EU members that have declined to recognise Kosovo as independent after its unilateral declaration of independence from Serbia in February 2008. On October 6, Serbian daily Danas, as quoted by Bulgarian news agency Focus, said that with Pasok taking power in Athens, pressure on the Greek government to recognise Kosovo as independent would increase. The paper quoted political studies professor Predrag Simic as saying that observers would have to "wait and see if Papandreou gives in to the pressure".
In a previous Pasok government, Papandreou was foreign minister, and was credited for working with his then-counterpart in Ankara, Ismail Cem, to achieve major progress in reconciliation between Greece and Turkey.
Countries that have a very close interest in Greece’s foreign policy – Turkey, Cyprus and Macedonia, along with EU hopefuls in the Western Balkans keen to see the attitude that Papandreou will take in office towards expansion of the bloc – are well aware that the first priority facing the new government will be the economic crisis, but are hopeful that the change in leadership in Athens will see progress on long-standing disputes.
Inextricably tied to relations with Ankara is the question of Cyprus, and Papandreou said during his election campaign that after taking office his first visit would be to Nicosia.
Papandreou regards the 2004 Kofi Annan plan for resolving the Cyprus impasse as dead, but, going by statements made on the campaign trail, hopes to see more decisive action by Turkey to allow the negotiations between Cyprus president Dimitris Christofias and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat to make progress.
The fact that Papandreou is making a priority of visiting Nicosia before the December 2009 summit at which EU leaders will discuss Turkey’s accession bid is seen as a signal that his government will be prepared to invest effort in clearing away an issue that has been a serious obstacle in bilateral relations and that has complicated Turkey’s EU hopes.
Ankara
October 14 sees the release of a European Commission report on Turkey’s progress towards suitability for EU membership.
The previous Greek government made support for Turkey’s EU bid conditional on progress in regard to Cyprus and on other issues, and it was not expected that this "conditional" approach, known as the right of veto, would change much under Papandreou – unless both capitals rapidly seized the opening to find a way out of long-running disputes, including Athens’s anger about Turkish incursions into air space claimed by Greece and its EU-level protests about Turkey failing to do enough to curb illegal immigrants making their way towards continental Europe, frequently via Greek shores.
Writing in Turkish daily Hurriyet, before the October 4 election in Greece, politics professor Dimitris Tsarouhas said that it was to be expected that a Pasok administration would pursue a more active diplomatic effort in the bilateral relationship.
"Should a potential Pasok government find a reliable partner across the Aegean, a comprehensive effort to discuss highly political differences between both sides is not to be ruled out," Tsarouhas said.
Skopje
Then there is the epic dispute between Athens and Skopje about the use of the name Macedonia.
During the election campaign, Papandreou indicated that he would take an approach more conciliatory towards the former Yugoslav republic to achieve a result to end the dispute, which has defied attempts by the United Nations to broker a compromise and is an emotional domestic political issue for Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski’s government.
Because of the dispute, Greece blocked an invitation to Macedonia to join Nato and similarly will not ally itself to Skopje’s EU hopes until the impasse is ended. The dispute is also the subject of international court action by Skopje against Athens.
Within Greece, there has been a strong national consensus on the Macedonia name dispute. After the Pasok election victory, Skopje-based daily Vecer said that things could not get worse, and at least negotiations to achieve a compromise would become more intensive.
Western Balkans
Apart from Western Balkans states that hope to join the EU eagerly watching the position to be taken by the Papandreou government, Serbia had an especial interest in whether the new government would change Athens’s position on Kosovo.
Greece, with Cyprus, Romania, Slovakia and Spain, is one of five EU members that have declined to recognise Kosovo as independent after its unilateral declaration of independence from Serbia in February 2008. On October 6, Serbian daily Danas, as quoted by Bulgarian news agency Focus, said that with Pasok taking power in Athens, pressure on the Greek government to recognise Kosovo as independent would increase. The paper quoted political studies professor Predrag Simic as saying that observers would have to "wait and see if Papandreou gives in to the pressure".
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This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
TOO ALL FYROMANIAN YOU REALY NOW WHAT MEANS MACEDONIA????????????
Can I try introducing a new topic into this discussion (hopefully with eirenic / peace-making intent) ?
This is the one "arm" of this long-standing dispute that Greece actually got spot-on right (probably accidentally, I have to say), namely registering the Star/Sun of Vergina for Greece under the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organisation) procedures some years ago.
This forced fyr Macedonia to change its flag virtually immediately, as it had usurped the Star of Vergina for its own purposes.
As a sanction (and one valid under international law), [...]
Read the full comment this action by Greece worked brilliantly. Unhappily, its subsequent actions on the "name" issue were less skilfully handled, and we all await the International Court of Justice proceedings in January 2010 with some trepidation. Greece probably got that one badly wrong, not least in letting fyr Macedonia initiate the case and having first turn in the proceedings...
Anyway, on a brighter note, here's the link to the WIPO site (a very good one) that explains what it's all about:
http://www.wipo.int/lisbon/en/
My advice to the Greek government would be to register Megalos Alexandros / Alex the Great and all that goes with him as "Intellectual Property" of Greece , as they successfully did a few years ago with the Star of Vergina. It is unlikely they could protect the "Macedonia" name itself under WIPO rules, but pretty likely that they could stop Skopje doing silly things like erecting statues and re-naming airports.
Just a thought, and an eirenic one at that, which might hopefully appeal to the Moderators. (Eirenic sentiments are a bit rare on this site - hence all the deletions of comments, quite understandably.)
danielle you are slavs, and not macedonian,you are bulgarian brother.
Greece has to unchain itself from previous political claims.Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian minority in Greece are no threat to Greece.We fought the Ottoman Empire,we fought the Italians and the Nazis in the second World War together.Recognise the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian minority and we can both prosper.As a Human being,I have the right to declair my self who am I.I dont want anybody to tell me who I am.This is my basic Human Rights.
Well, the other 26 member-states of the EU do not agree. They will find ways of overcoming the Greek "veto", you can be assured.
Yes, my friend the Greeks voted against Karamanlis in the recent elections but no for this matter.The Greeks voted having in mind the economy.As far as this dispute is concerned the polls that have been published in the press show that people in crushing numbers support his policies.So personally, i do not find any logical gap.
Giorgios - if what you say:
<<because the crushing majority of Greeks supported and still support the policy of the former Prime Minister Karamanlis. >>
is true, why did a crushing majority of Greeks recently elect Papandreou rather than Karamanlis as their Prime Minister ?
There's a certain logical gap here, somewhere......
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
Don not have illusions.Papandreou is not going to change Greek policy on this matter because the crushing majority of Greeks supported and still support the policy of the former Prime Minister Karamanlis.
If you want my opinion, US are, by far, a more backwards country than Greece. The death penalty has still not be abolished in your country...
Greece is a very backwards country. Its very well known here in the US and Canada.
Greece's infrastructure is very bad.
Greece is very unmodern for an EU State
I think Papandreou will give Macedonia what we need. Northern Macedonia sounds good to us but our identity should not be compromised. We have learned that our modern history begins in Bulgaria with our forefathers Delchev, Sandanski, Karev, Sarafov, Gruev, and that many of our Narod here in Macedonia have Bulgarian roots. We know that our government is trying to divorce any Slavic associations but they are failing more and more because the truth has entered the school system which for years was under the direction of the local police who would appear if they heard of anything. The youth [...]
Read the full comment of Macedonia are marching forward towards the EU and we know that these fascists who run our country aren't worried about the geographic qualifier it is keeping the diaspora nazis happy so they can keep getting well fed while the rest of us in Macedonia have to watch and starve. Our family hasn't worked in 2 years since this big Statue loving fascist took over. The only people who get a job in Macedonia are those who support their party (fascists). Thankfully in Greece Socialism has returned and in it we the Youth of Macedonia we trust. Good on you Greece. Only make sure to put it to good use and give us a compromise which the youth will always be proud of. Good luck!
For once, I think Greek Macedonia Supremacy is right (and Aries too). Problems are NOT solved by sitting on them for ever (or maintaining a veto for ever), as the Karamanlis government did. Actions need to be taken too, even if they are politically unpopular.
The international community will certainly welcome this, and is far more likely to lend Greece much support (and probably a lot of money) as a token of this support.
None of this excludes the desirability of knocking a bit of sense into both Gruevski in Macedonia and [...]
Read the full comment into the Turkish government. In Gruevski's case this means "stop provoking Greece and rename the bloody airport", and in Turkey's case it means "institute proper coastguard patrols against illegal immigrants crossing into Greek islands".
As for Cyprus, well, it's a bit of a "fifty-fifty", but the Greek Cypriots have traded on international good will for rather a long time, and the true Turkish Cypriots (as opposed to those resettled from the Turkish mainland) have had little voice in their own affairs. Denktash was an autocrat and a difficult man to negotiate with - but then so was Makarios ! (Solutions to the Cyprus problem in a sealed envelope please, addressed to the Sofia Echo !)
Greeks are fed up they are fed up
with "ΘΑ" ΤΗΑ every thing is postponed to the future they have had it from both ruling parties
Pasok and ND, over 2 million voters abstained from the polls
to show both their desdain.
"ΘΑ" is a prefix denoting that the event indicated by the neext to it verb will be concluded in the future.
You know the problem with Fyrom in generally speaking its not the name,or the idedity,the reall problem,its the politics.They managed to make the most part of the people beleive that first of all,all their problems starts from Greece,and to stop care about how they live and just be happy if something is wrong in Greece!!A good exable of this is George bellow!!
Dear George let me bring you to reallity!!
EU not only back in the whole issue,even your best friends in Eu like Slovenia for exable keep telling you [...]
Read the full comment that if the name dispute wont be resolved there is no way for you people to enter the union.In the veto we puted to you in NATO noone reacted NOT EVEN TURKEY remember?Thats the point of an organisation or a union!We support our members!As for USA the first politic outside greece who congadulated Papandreou was Obama!You should expect many changes from no own in the relationships between Greece and USA specially because of Papandreou policy!!He openly supports USA in many aspects,and i as a voter of him i prefer this policy!As for India or China,man you cant be more redicilus honeslty.Fyrom at the moment is the China of Europe regarding many things.Cheap working hands,no taxes!I dont want Chinese bussines in Greece you can keep it.The Olympic games costed as much as 2% of our GPD!Come in Greece and witnes what they left behind!Just visit OAKA then you will realise how stupid you are!To understant that its redicilus someone like you even to talk about Greece as much as the olympics costed is all of your countrys GPD!!This years about 250.000 Fyromians came only in the summer in Greece much more than the previus years,totally 20.000.000 people!!Are u idiot?Why you put in your mouth things like tourism?Even your own people dont go for tourism in your country!!We actually expected 25% drop and we had less than 8 in a time of crisis!!Albania is beautifull the same Montenegro and Croatia even Turkey.but there is no reason for someone to go for tourism in Fyrom.i came 3 times and i know what im talking about.No sea no fun!!:-)!!!In the following months you will witnes Greek foreign policy change very much.It starts with Turkey!!Stay there and enjoy in the missery!!Papandreou all the way!!
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained реклама & спам
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained реклама & спам
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained реклама & спам
Welcome Northern Macedonia to the world!!! Glad to have you aboard.
Changes are not all ways progres but will waite an see hwat happens.Will the non Greek people of Greece will be free to return to their home land?Will they get their properties back?Will they be able to claim their nationality?Thats the thinks Grees needs to do became a democratic country.
That's why Papandreou will do concessions in the foreign issues to put Greece out of the americano-balkanic isolation...
>First, the Macedonia name will be solved soon: he will accept "Northern Macedonia" and Skopjans will be internationally recognized and called as "Macedonians".
>Towards Turkey, he will recognize the turkish minority and their religious claims in Thrace, so the halki school can reopen in exchange.
>He will accept any solution for the reunification of Cyprus, even if the conditions of the agreement would be harder than ever to accept for [...]
Read the full comment the greek cypriot part, which will be the big looser at the end.
>That means he will never utilize the VETO to block Turkey's access, since he wants to restablish very good strategic relations with the US.
So I expect dramatic issues regarding the foreign decisions taken within the next few months...
There no hope for Greece, they dug them selfs in a deep hole, on foreign and economic issues.
eg.They are NOT making new friends in the EU or NATO due to blocking of Macedonia and Turkey's entry to these orginisations. Greece has made the USA to turn their backs, Greece has backed off from a deal they made with Russia and i don't think China is keen to invest in with shifty Greeks and India has already chosen to invest in Macedonia.
Thats the 4 biggest economies in the world that are against Greece. [...]
Read the full comment
Economiclly Greece is still owing billons of euro dollars from the Olimpics in 2004. Greece has a political system that is corupt and full of scandals (at least one a month) and other countries are scared to invest, and holiday makers around Eroupe are choosing to go on holidays like Croatia, Albania, Bulgaria, Macedonia and Montenegro.
It's a Big Black Hole that Greece has dug up and it's only going to get deeper if it continues on the current path.
The previous government of Karamanlis was equally good.
It defended Greece's interests.
Now Greece will have a more pro American stance.
Oil and Gas pipes, geopolitics ets.
Lets see..
Good, good, and good. Now at last we may see progress on several fronts.