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Thu, Feb 09 2012
Greece’s snap election ‘suspends’ Macedonia name dispute talks – media
Matthew Nimetz, the United Nations mediator in the Macedonia name dispute.
A month ahead of Greece’s October 4 2009 snap parliamentary elections, opposition socialist party Pasok has brought the Macedonia name dispute into the fray by promising to resolve the long-running standoff with Skopje through "reconciliation, not confrontation".
Greek prime minister Costas Karamanlis announced on September 2 that the country would go to the polls ahead of term, a move that some Macedonian media interpreted as meaning that the process of negotiation on the name dispute would be frozen.
In recent weeks, Athens and Skopje have presented their responses to the latest proposals by United Nations-appointed mediator Matthew Nimetz to resolve the imbroglio, which arises from Athens’s objections to the former Yugoslav republic using the name "Macedonia" for the country.
The Macedonia name dispute has been a major election issue in recent elections in that country, although it is not expected that much other than the economic crisis and recent high-profile scandals, although with government handling of violence and wildfires in recent months, will dominate debate in the Greek election.
On September 4, Skopje-based daily Dnevnik said that the early election in Greece would mean that the negotiations would be suspended.
Balkan Insight said that Dnevnik reported that Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski could "relax" because of this, because it meant that his and Karamanlis’s "lack of readiness" to settle the dispute would no longer be blamed for the crumbling of the UN mediation efforts.
Dnevnik said that Nimetz had gone on leave, meaning that in any case, the process could be delayed until the end of 2009.
A similar line was taken by Skopje’s Utrinski Vesnik, which said that the snap elections in Greece secured a strong political alibi for Skopje in stalling the UN talks.
Bulgarian news agency Focus reported that Macedonian daily Vecer said that there were several different scenarios about how the Greek October 4 elections would affect the negotiations between Athens and Skopje, which are of key importance to Macedonia’s European-Atlantic integration.
It was probable that there would be a "standstill" in the negotiations, until a new government was formed in Athens – possibly only in spring 2010, Vecer said.
Greek opposition party Pasok, led by George Papandreou, is said by polls to have a lead of about six points over Karamanlis’s New Democracy party. However, even if translated into real results, this would not give Papandreou a majority sufficient to govern without a broad-based coalition.
Pasok’s Andreas Loverdos, speaking to Greek news website newstime.gr said that when his party came to power, it would resolve the name dispute. "We will send a message of reconciliation to our neighbour, not of confrontation," he said.
In recent days, there have been direct messages at multilateral level for the name dispute to be resolved.
Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen urged Athens and Skopje to come up with a solution, while European Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn, speaking to the European Parliament’s foreign policy committee on September 2, said that "the name issue is not a condition of the accession process, but it is clear that a solution would create a much more positive environment for continued EU integration".
Greek prime minister Costas Karamanlis announced on September 2 that the country would go to the polls ahead of term, a move that some Macedonian media interpreted as meaning that the process of negotiation on the name dispute would be frozen.
In recent weeks, Athens and Skopje have presented their responses to the latest proposals by United Nations-appointed mediator Matthew Nimetz to resolve the imbroglio, which arises from Athens’s objections to the former Yugoslav republic using the name "Macedonia" for the country.
The Macedonia name dispute has been a major election issue in recent elections in that country, although it is not expected that much other than the economic crisis and recent high-profile scandals, although with government handling of violence and wildfires in recent months, will dominate debate in the Greek election.
On September 4, Skopje-based daily Dnevnik said that the early election in Greece would mean that the negotiations would be suspended.
Balkan Insight said that Dnevnik reported that Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski could "relax" because of this, because it meant that his and Karamanlis’s "lack of readiness" to settle the dispute would no longer be blamed for the crumbling of the UN mediation efforts.
Dnevnik said that Nimetz had gone on leave, meaning that in any case, the process could be delayed until the end of 2009.
A similar line was taken by Skopje’s Utrinski Vesnik, which said that the snap elections in Greece secured a strong political alibi for Skopje in stalling the UN talks.
Bulgarian news agency Focus reported that Macedonian daily Vecer said that there were several different scenarios about how the Greek October 4 elections would affect the negotiations between Athens and Skopje, which are of key importance to Macedonia’s European-Atlantic integration.
It was probable that there would be a "standstill" in the negotiations, until a new government was formed in Athens – possibly only in spring 2010, Vecer said.
Greek opposition party Pasok, led by George Papandreou, is said by polls to have a lead of about six points over Karamanlis’s New Democracy party. However, even if translated into real results, this would not give Papandreou a majority sufficient to govern without a broad-based coalition.
Pasok’s Andreas Loverdos, speaking to Greek news website newstime.gr said that when his party came to power, it would resolve the name dispute. "We will send a message of reconciliation to our neighbour, not of confrontation," he said.
In recent days, there have been direct messages at multilateral level for the name dispute to be resolved.
Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen urged Athens and Skopje to come up with a solution, while European Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn, speaking to the European Parliament’s foreign policy committee on September 2, said that "the name issue is not a condition of the accession process, but it is clear that a solution would create a much more positive environment for continued EU integration".
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Greece poised for October 4 snap elections
Prime minister Costas Karamanlis in a whirlwind of public and television appearances as campaigning ends, seeking to stave off what polls predict will be a victory for his rival, Pasok’s George Papandreou, in the October 4 2009 snap elections
Nimetz’s optimistic message on Macedonia name dispute talks
Negotiations on resolving the dispute about the use of the name Macedonia will restart after the formation of a government in Athens following the Greek snap elections on October 4 2009, UN mediator Matthew Nimetz says.
Greek prime minister Karamanlis rules out post-election coalition
Basing his campaign in Greece’s October 5 2009 snap elections on the economy, prime minister Costas Karamanlis – whose party is running second in opinion polls – claims that poll leader Papandreou’s economic solutions are too vague.
Next six months ‘critical’ for Greek foreign policy
Greek foreign minister Dora Bakoyannis says that all the major issues in Greek foreign policy – the Macedonia name dispute, Cyprus and relations with Turkey – will reach major turning points in the next six months.
Rehn gives update on EU enlargement process
Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn says that he has met five out of the six goals he set for himself during his five-year term.
Greek prime minister Karamanlis announces snap election
Ruling party trails in polls, hit by economic crisis, violence in Athens some months ago and a series of corruption scandals. The election will be on October 4.
Macedonia name dispute talks remain at ‘dead end’
Greece has not accepted the amended ‘Republic of North Macedonia’ usage proposal, while UN mediator Matthew Nimetz is scheduled to hear Skopje’s response on August 20 2009.
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fyromanian nead doctor,very soon.
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content
This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language
I grew up in a household that spoke greek and macedonian. Growing up I always overheard my grandparents, uncles/aunts etc speaking this language in which I knew nothing about. As I grew older I met a lot of people who were Macedonian and realized what my true background is. I have been to the aegean part many times and can tell you that there is a large part of the population that are being raised in a greek political society in which they know nothing about there true heritage. shame!
hey im from Lerin, (Florina) Greece. Everyone in this city speaks the Macedonian language. Since the occupation of macedonia in 1913 we still kept our Macedonian Identity even though we had to speak greek because of the hellenization of the land and the brutality of the police
OMTOG(occupied macedonian territorys of greece) needs to give macedonia its land back, also bulgaria
Sorry - important typo. "formly" should read "firmly".
What happened was that the Romans deported the entire Hellenic population of Macedonia in 146 BC, and replaced them with Romans from elsewhere. The Illyrian serfs and slaves remained in situ. The whole place became Latin-speaking, though upper-class Romans always had a penchant for speaking Greek (or trying to !) as this made them appear "educated" !!!
There has been a great deal of previous correspondence on this issue on this site, some of it polite, and some of it most impolite. (Aries will know what I mean and who I am talking about - neither of us will ever forget Pella the Fella !)
I am left with three thoughts on this issue, hopefully constructive ones:
(1) A "geographic qualifier" such as "Northern Macedonia" for fYRoM (watch my spelling - this is the only interationally correct way) and "Aegean Macedonia" or "Southern Macedonia" for the Greek province, would [...]
Read the full comment be acceptable to the international community, who are getting right pissed-off (vraiment fache) with the interminable delay caused by both sides' intransigence.
(2) Since historical precedents are quoted at length by both sides (notably the Greeks), there is an exact precedent for this during the later Roman Empire, when Northern Macedonia was "Macedonia Salutaris" and Southern Macedonia "Macedonia Prima". The boundaries were very much the same as now. (Hellenic Macedonia was rather formly dismantled by the earlier Roman Empire in 146 BC; the Romans probably invented "ethnic cleansing". So neither of the present-day Macedonias is a 'successor state' to the ancient one pre-146 BC.)
(3) There are ways and procedures for both EU and NATO to circumvent / override a persistent veto or "non-avis" by one particular member-state. The report above suggests that these procedures are now being considered. Both Athens and Skopje should take note: time is running out.
(And yes, I'll take over Nimitz's job any day, though I have a very high respect for him, not least on grounds of the superhuman patience that he must have displayed.)
I now await a posting from Peggy telling me that my version of ancient history is not accepted in the State of Victoria, Australia !
This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.
Don't expect a solution for the name issue, because it is in the interest of both countries to remain unsolved...
I believe that the name dispute is not going to end as soon as anticipated. Both PASOK and ND face plenty of issues regarding the internal financial problems that simply will not run to settle a matter that could only harm their image.
Whoever the government might be, the fact remains that it will hold a very thin majority and large comprimises will only be an issue for further turmoil.
I could see PASOK vetoing FYROM s membership in EU to get some "national" credit and let the issue to perpetuate.
Issues such as [...]
Read the full comment public finance, the aegean and cyprus oil reserves, gas pipe politics, etc those are the majore issues.
The macedonian is far too secondary to be settled.
Time will solve it any how. When the time for western balkans will come to integrate in EU Skopje government will have to comprinise for not loosing the opportunity.
The a settlement shall be reached.
Till then do not expect much of excitment.
This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.
Filip, the day will come when us from struga kick your butt from wherever you are for talking about this idiotic occupation Bulshit post-1913. All our grandparents fought in those Balkan wars to free the land from ottoman occupation. Before that you idiot there was no nation get it. You and your kind make a fool of the rest of us Macedonians who want to look forward not backwards. Wake up! Get out of that fascist mode and look to the future our Macedonian Narod needs forward looking not back. The other moron has to be a diaspora jerk to [...]
Read the full comment call him/herself Solun. The diaspora have f-ed our country. They keep preaching this Nazi hatred never allowing any headway to be reached, And with this Bozo who is running our country and is actually a diaspora puppet we have no hope of entering a good, stable future. Your grandfather deserved it you idiot if he was acting like you thinking you can have everything you want. Keep your fascist, imperialistic attitude in your Canada, Australia, Usa or wherever you live anfd leave our Narod alone. The diaspora has literally turned itself into some type of antiquity addicted morons who have nothing better to do with themselves but go round preaching ancient bulshit. Gandeto and Stefov have ridiculed us enough. If they ever step foot in Macedonia (especially in Struga or Ohrid) they can expect some good old fashion Macedonian Pig crap it will suit their outfits which have disgraced us long enough. Forever Macedonia, reconciliation for a better healthier world.......To all you Gruevski fascists who live in our midst, we the Macedonian Youth will find you...........
Peggy
Some people misunderstand the word Reconciliation. Reconcilaton is
"rapprochement" in French which
in turn means "get together and talk about an issue " that is what diplomacy and international forums are hopefully for finding solution
to issues before the Drums of War
start sounding.
As you correctly mention this is a two sided bargain never one sided.
Don't ask too much about etiquette
it is llfated on this Site
Shemi
First please do learn some Basics of Engllish,in Shqipteria doon't
they offer some basic English at school?.Your English is a tragedy
Call Shqipteria whatever you people wish but stop dreaming about territorial expansions
you are just losing your time,
your Nato membership does not allow
it. Why do you think Nato granted Albania a membership?
i say to the greecs dont u worry tomuch aboute the name in 10 jears will be named illirya u just get rady to tolk aboute cameria becouse we have litle busnise ther
Name game, Greece does want to resolve this but you cannot resove something when the other side digs their heels in and refuses to be sensible.
Resolution is only possible when both sides are sensible.
I agree with the Greeks. How can FYROM claim the Macedonian heritage when clearly they cannot even read anything on the artifact left by the Macedonians. They don't even speak the same language. They are more Bulgarian and to some extent Serbian. It's like saying that Americans (whites) are the indigenous Americans and the history belongs to them and [...]
Read the full comment the names of tribes belong to them as well. So the name of Macedonia belongs to people who oroginally had it.
Makedonien måste delas
SLAV MACEDONIANS IS AS GOOD AS ITS GONNA GET
Reconciliation? hahahahahahaha!
Keep dreaming Fyrom. Greeks are the indigenous and rightful owners of all Macedonia. Slavs are introduced species to the region, they have arrived into the region 1000 years after Alexander the Great so how could Fyrom claim to be Macedonian since the True Macedonians are Greeks? Today there is over 2.5 million True Macedonians(Greeks) and there is less then 1.5 million Fyrom(Slavs) who speak Bulgarian, so keep dreaming Fyrom you are the minority in that region.
To Solun(dreaming)
My great grandmothwer was from Monastir(Bitola) and so what?
Should I keep dreaming about Monastir. There is a Greek cemetry
over there. Your real problem
is lying there and waiting it is called employement and next to it you may consider the growing Albanian community.
Panagiote Dakoglou,
Get your facts right before you post anything on the forum. My Grandfather was beaten from you pricks, because he spoke Macedonian, he refused to Speak greek, until he died, i have a great storie, to tell all of you people out there in the world, but it can go on for years, it was all the things that my grandfather told me, when i was young, he was born in 1903, so he saw everything that was going on. So again, Learn the proper history before you post anything every again.
[...]
Read the full comment
Macedonian Forever.
cevapi eating pricks,its over the americans (jews) want thessaloniki and their gonna do anything 2 get true makedonia its over.
Reconciliation means: To give back the 1913 ocupied land back to it's legal owners, paying war reparations to all refugees, recognition of R.of Macedonia, macedonian nation, language, etc.
What is the problem?
Greek have their country - Greece. How many names they need to have for their country, not 15 I presume?!.. The region Macedonia spreads today over three countries - Bulgaria, Rep. Macedonia and Greece. So Greek simply can't have any kind of "copy right" over a name. Further more ancient historians described Macedone people as "omogenos" to the Thracians (today Bulgaria), which means they were non-greek, but only hellenistic. For instance, if you today speak English doesn't mean you have a British origin.
Both sides are arguing about different things - One side is talking about historical integrity, and cultural heritage and the other side is talking about self determination, and political autonomy/survival. Until both sides discuss the same issues at the table, this problem will persist.
Neither side really wants to resolve this issue - if they did, it would have been resolved by now. It's a good distraction for the citizens of both countries so they don't pay attention to what their governments are doing...
macedonia wont change its name,the macedonians will fight for it if they have to,i dont think it will be that easy to give up the name,macedonia has the rights to keep the name,greece is just bluffing!
The name Macedonia( Makedonia) is Greek and known for centuries all over the world. You can use in Slav language any name you want.
Peter
In this case it probably means "scap everything that's gone on before and start afresh"...
reconciliation means?