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South Eastern Europe

Romania ready to partner Serbia in World Court action against Kosovo

Author: Clive Leviev-Sawyer Date: Fri, Sep 04 2009 181 Comments, 9654 Views
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Romania, which rejects as illegitimate the secession of Kosovo from Serbia, is ready to join Belgrade in its action in International Court of Justice requesting an opinion on the legitimacy of otherwise of the February 2008 unilateral declaration of independence in Pristina.
 
Romania president Traian Basescu, according to Serbian media reports, told an annual gathering of Serbian diplomats that Bucharest wanted to partner Serbia in the World Court action in The Hague.
 
"Territorial partitions are unacceptable, regardless of what explanations put forward to support them," said Basescu, head of state of one of the European Union countries that refuses to endorse Kosovo as independent.
 
Serbia won United Nations General Assembly backing in 2008 to refer Kosovo’s UDI to the World Court for a non-binding opinion.
 
Belgrade and Kosovo are locked in a battle on the world stage to draw countries into their respective camps.
 
Serbia’s FoNet agency reported Basescu as saying that Romania would support the unfreezing of the European Union’s Stabilisation and Association Agreement (SAA) between Serbia and the EU.
 
The SAA is on hold mainly because of Dutch and Belgian opposition to any concessions being given to Belgrade unless it meets requirements to hand war criminals over to international justice.
 
Romania will also increase efforts towards getting Serbia's visa regime with the EU liberalised, Basescu said
 
Serbia’s most powerful backer internationally is Russia.
 
On September 4 2009, Belgrade daily Vecernje Novosti said that Russia’s ambassador to the UN Vitali Churkin said that Moscow rejects Kosovo’s UDI because, "when it was made, it was very much possible to arrive at a political solution that could secure the Kosovo Albanians’ rights without resorting to illegally violating Serbia’s territorial integrity." 
 
Asked by journalists why Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be internationally recognised and Kosovo not, Churkin said that "the strongest argument is the fact that at the time when Kosovo’s authorities made the UDI, nobody was threatening them or putting them in a position where they had to secede."
 
Churkin said that, "on the contrary, Belgrade even went so far as to refrain from exerting any military or economic pressure on Pristina."
 
Moscow has hit out at Western countries that recognised Kosovo, accusing them of hypocrisy for declining to recognise two breakaway regions from Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
 
On August 25 2009, Russia’s foreign ministry called for international recognition Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
 
"The expansion of the process of recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia by members of the international community - no matter how far off they are - will undoubtedly assist the long term strengthening of peace and security in the region," Reuters quoted the foreign ministry in Moscow as saying in a statement.
 
Earlier, speaking on the first anniversary of the August 2008 armed conflict between Russia and Georgia, Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin said that from a moral and ethical point of view, comparison of the Kosovo issue with that of South Ossetia and Georgi was justified.
 
Putin called on international media not to be the "instrument of any country", and said that there were no distinctions in terms of ethnic conflicts in the respective cases.

On September 4 2009, Serbian agency Tanjug, quoting Russia's Itar-Tass, said that Andrei Nesterenko from the Russian foreign ministry had said that "considerable conflict potential" persisted in Kosovo, and that he expected international community representatives to act impartially to prevent "new anti-Serb provocation."

Nesterenko told a briefing in Moscow that events in Kosovo "show that considerable conflict potential remains" and that the most recent inter-ethnic clashes were a result of the Kosovo Albanians’ desire to compress Serb ethnic territory at all costs.

He added that the clashes highlighted the lack of progress in lifting the " wall of alienation" that divides Serbs and Albanians.

Nesterenko said that "overall, the Kosovo problem remains one of the most serious challenges to security in the region".

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    • AnonymousPATRICAWilliamThu, Mar 18 2010

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      Anonymous Agron Frlani Tue, Oct 06 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #179 13, 17, Thu, Sep 24 2009

      TSE moderator, the reason I am going on about the march is because some people just will not accept that I have posted genuine footage which proves my point.

      Now I see you saw fit to remove my reply to Epaminon which clearly shows how he accuses me of trying to fool people here by posting a video from the wrong year, when in fact he was the one posting a list from the wrong year trying to discredit my evidence.

      Fine, you can delete anything you want but then I am [...]

      Read the full comment left with no way to defend my credebility or honesty.

    • Profile preview
      TSE Moderator Rating: 8
      neutral
      #178 12, 49, Thu, Sep 24 2009

      Are we done establishing the ANZAC day order of marching? More importantly, is it really relevant to the story?

    • Anonymous Peggy Thu, Sep 24 2009

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      Anonymous Epaminondas Thu, Sep 24 2009

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      Anonymous Epaminondas Thu, Sep 24 2009

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      Anonymous Bato Thu, Sep 24 2009

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      Anonymous Peggy Wed, Sep 23 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #171 14, 40, Wed, Sep 23 2009

      yes Peggy, you are being clear enough. You posted a 2008 item to compare with a 2009 item. Most people would say this was careless.

      Meanwhile, why did the Order of March differ so much between 2008 and 2009 ? Why did the Turks get dumped and the South Vietnamese reinstated ?

      There is clearly a Melbourne plot here to which we do not know the answer. But a straightforwards scenario, clearly it is not.

      Go on , Miss Peggy Marple, and solve it for us. Your audience [...]

      Read the full comment awaits....

    • Anonymous Peggy Wed, Sep 23 2009

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      Anonymous Peggy Wed, Sep 23 2009

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      Anonymous Peggy Wed, Sep 23 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Aries Rating:
      neutral
      #164 22, 57, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Epaminondas
      Je ne vouis que des declarations
      de coeur.
      For Peggy, the Greeks, the "no turks" just to spice it up ,
      keep up the good work chap!!!!

    • Anonymous Epomminondas Tue, Sep 22 2009

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      Anonymous Peggy Tue, Sep 22 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #161 15, 02, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      I have found your Melbourne Order of March which (as you rightly) say includes Serbia amongst the Allies, behind the Greeks (good to see the Greeks there) and ahead of the South Vietnamese, so definitely Allies. And no Turks.

      Unforntunately Peggy sent me a conflicting video of the same occasion on the same year showing Serbia marching just ahead of Turkey (I THINK the red flag with a crescent on is Turkish, also the word Turkije, but maybe I am wrong). Definitely no Vietnamese, North or South. Link is here: it's pretty definitely Melbourne (or so [...]

      Read the full comment Peggy said):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWKrYyIlto

      Clearly I have been sent two sets of contradictory information. Can you please sort out with Peggy which is correct ?

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #160 14, 42, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Truly sorry Bato - I'll double check asap. Clearly I was sent more than one Order Of March !

      Obviously the South Vietnamese were allies - that goes without saying !

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #159 14, 38, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Sorry Epaminondas, but I looked over the order I gave you. There are no Turk regiments, and the Serbs are in front of the Vietnamese; those being South Vietnamese Forces.

    • Anonymous
      Epomminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #158 12, 36, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      The invitation, my dear Peggy, may relate to who is beneath whom at the time, which I think is what J.R.Ewing may have meant.

      However, we are divided by oceans which are "worlds away", so all this is purely academic.

      Meanwhile, to get back vaguely On Topic, Bato has rightly pointed out that there were two lots of Chetniks - the Royalist ones who were faithful allies to the Allies, and who march in Oz on ANZAC Day, and the other lot who don't.

      Bato also raises the [...]

      Read the full comment good point that all this is getting very Off Topic, as we were all meant to be discussing Kosovo. He is entirely right to remind us of this point.

      (On-line dating between Oz and UK is getting very Off Topic indeed, so much as I am flattered by your attention, let us drop the subject !)

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #157 11, 48, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Epaminondas, what the hell do you mean here,

      "And do I take your J.R.Ewing quote as a concealed invitation ? If so, I'm very flattered, and thank you for it."

      Invitation to what?
      I was merely quoting the character because I was relying the same message. You knowt and I know it so why write such crap?
      Is it not beneath you?

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #156 09, 19, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Bato - genuinely many thanks. The distinction you make about Royalist Chetniks and other Chetniks is an important one, and explains what I was told in Slovenia (from senior official sources) about how different groups of Chetniks fought on both sides during WW II, though predominantly on the Allied side. (It also explains why even on this site we have archive photographs of Chetniks with Allies and Chetniks with Germans !)

      The roster you copied was very helpful, but in the order of march the Serbs come last-but-one, the last of all being the Turks in [...]

      Read the full comment the "forgiven" section. So it would be as logically possible for them to be grouped with the Turks as to be grouped with the Allies, and misunderstanding is genuinely possible here unless (like you) one had inside knowledge.

      Your ironic point about Nedic and Madeleine Albright is a very good one !

      Finally, you are of course quite right in wondering why we are discussing Chetniks when we are meant to be discussing Kosovo ! OT/Off Topic, I think it's called.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #155 02, 27, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Serbs were not in any "forgiven" section, that's just your assumption. Where is the proof? Where were they on that roster I gave you? In the Allied Forces section!!! Once again I say, Nedic was the collaborator, he had a division of Cetniks with him, they were not Mihailovic's Cetniks. That is why on the roster of the march it says Serbian Royalist Cetniks. They were the ones who stuck with the Allies, loyal to the Serbian monarchy/govt in exile. Here is a video of what US WWII vets think about the Serbian Cetniks.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5CXope9ncI&fea [...]

      Read the full comment />ture=related
      All of the sources I'm giving you are non-Serb, so don't you see that these sources believe the Serbs were screwed-over by the Allies, mostly the Brits.
      Nedic for his part actually believed he was doing the right thing by siding with Germans (i don't agree), taking refugees from all over Europe, particularly Serb and Slovene. He even took ex-US Sec. of State Madeline Albright when she fled Czech Republic. Then she turns and says to bomb Belgrade in the 90s.
      This is a forum about Kosovo, how did we get onto the Cetniks.

    • Anonymous
      Epomminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #154 00, 43, Tue, Sep 22 2009

      Peggy -

      to put it simply:

      (a) the Serbs are "marching" at the very end of the ANZAC day column immediately ahead of the Turks. All the Allied contingent are "marching" ahead of the Serbs.

      (b) the Turks are definitely in the "forgiven" section as they were the original Gallipoli opponents in 1915 (or have I somehow got this wrong ?)

      (c) the Serbs are therefore "marching" in between the Allies and the Turks.

      (d) it is therefore reasonable to [...]

      Read the full comment conclude that the Serbs are somewhere in between the two. Since they fought on both sides during WW II this is quite appropriate.

      (e) nobody likes the Croats so they aren't there at all.

      (f) what about the Armenians ? They fought on the Allied side too, but they still hate the Turks because of the 1916 genocide/ massacre. I thought there was quite a large Armenian community in Australia.

      (g) I have already had one long-term Australian girl-friend (she used to work at the Queensland High Commission in London), and she was very hard work. I kept having to set up barbies (barbecues), buy tinnies, get lots of rolls of Durex, and attend lots of High Commission receptions while still sober. So thanks but no thanks for the kind invitation, though I am deeply touched.

      (PS I still can't stand Vegemite for breakfast !)

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #153 23, 40, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      Epaminondas, you are a very sore loser aren't you?
      The Serbs are not in the "forgiven" section. You are pulling you know what out of you know what now. Again you make comments without any bases to them.

      You alos say this,
      And do I take your J.R.Ewing quote as a concealed invitation ? If so, I'm very flattered, and thank you for it.

      Please stop insulting me. Do you have tickets on yoursel or what?

      Since you are so sure this is a [...]

      Read the full comment fact how about you produce something which back you on this one. Show us where it is said that Serbs are marching in the "forgiven" section and you can keep your history diploma.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #152 18, 24, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      Peggy my old mucker, I don't want to have a have a blue (or make a blue) with you, but on re-reading some of your comments, some of them are a bit OTT and about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

      Specifically, the Serbs are seen as marching at the very end of the ANZAC parade in your friend's video, just ahead of the Turks in what is clearly "forgiven enemy" corner.

      And do I take your J.R.Ewing quote as a concealed invitation ? If so, I'm very flattered, and [...]

      Read the full comment thank you for it.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #151 12, 30, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      Peggy my old beaut sheila, I have looked through the postings on this part of the site and some of yours have been removed, as you said earlier, so I guess the posting in question was one of those. But the sense of what you said was quite clear : "Only Serbs". What you now say sounds a bit like prevarication to me. Anyway, what happened to the Slovenes ? They have the best war record of any of the former Jugoslav republics, and yet apparently they are not allowed to march (though the Slovene Ambassador in London told me [...]

      Read the full comment that they were.) Is this some right old Ozzie foul-up ? Sounds like it. (Not for the first time - remember the recent Test Match !)

      Meanwhile, other readers bored with this correspondence might appreciate the following Aussie joke:

      << Thee Pom and the Bull

      One day an English bloke (Pom) was driving aroung the backblocks of
      Sydney, when he saw a little girl in the grass paddock next to
      him. With the little girl was a gigantic bull, that was
      preparing to gore the little girl and kill her.

      The Pom took action. He slammed on the brakes of his car, jumped
      out, ran over and jumped the barbed wire fence, bravely grabbed the bull
      by its horns, flipped it over and broke its back.

      An Aussie newspaper reporter saw the whole thing, and after the bull was
      dead (not being aware that the guy was English) he rushed over
      to congratulate him.

      "That was absolutly bloody fantastic mate! It'll make front page
      news, just give me your details,"

      So the Pom gives him his details. A day later he buys the
      newspaper and looks at the headline.

      It reads POMMY BASTARD
      KILLS CHILDS PET. >>

      Says a lot about the Australians, dunnit ?

      G'day meanwhile to all Bruces and Sheilas





    • Anonymous Peggy Mon, Sep 21 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained авторски права.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #149 11, 01, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      Bato - thanks at least for a bit of genuine factual information in the "Order of March" attachment. I see that, contrary to Peggy's claims that only the Chetniks march with the ANZAC veterans and troops, the British, Poles, and French veterans march too (as is quite right and proper, especially for the Poles, whose role on the Allied side in WW II is often underestimated.)

      Equally, it is also true that "one picture tells a thousand words", and the photo of the Chetniks with German troops is quite a telling one. And not all the [...]

      Read the full comment Chetnik actions during WW II were heroic, nor were they always on the Allied side (but always on the Serbian side !) However, I agree that they were not as bad as the Croatian Ustashe, but then two wrongs do not make a right.

      Anyway, we in the EU are now preparing for the accession of Croatia, now that its border dispute with Slovenia seems to be settled (why do the Croatians, like the Germans, always get to the best beaches first ?) Serbia, in contrast, is still a very long way from EU accession. This in itself is quite a telling fact; it would be helpful if Serbs did not have this habit of quarrelling with all their neighbours, sometimes at once !

      Meanwhile, Peggy, grateful if you could stop yabbering and put brain in gear instead.

    • Anonymous
      drini i madh Rating:
      neutral
      #148 10, 50, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      you can delete it from serbianna,but not google ;)

      Tito's widow receives passport after 30 years | Serbianna News
      8 Jul 2009 ... A former president of Victorian RSL said that the others will NEVER be allowed to march because they were on the side of “Bloody Hitler” ...
      serbianna.com/news/?p=2634

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #147 08, 03, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      By the way, I've looked over all comments, Peggy never linked the site Serbianna. What are you on about? You're making stuff up!!!

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #146 07, 46, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      Those links were lame. They said nothing. Firstly your statement that it tells a thousand words. It tells four - Cetniks collaborated with Nazis. Anyway, who's to say that they are Cetniks in the first place? They could be other Germans, Italians, Croats, peasants that were forced. Why would the Germans do this? To have the exact reaction they got, to drop support for Cetniks. Thirdly I state yet again, Milan Nedic was only collaborator. He was looking after himself and not the people. He had his own division and they were calling themselves Nedic's Cetniks. Your War Memorial link [...]

      Read the full comment is crap, states nothing for or against, so why put it on anyway. By the way, prior to his death, my grandfather marched in the march, that is how I know Serbs are part of ANZAC Day. Here's a link for you, stick this in your pipe and smoke it. Look at pg 10, under Allied Forces - #181. This is the order of the march.

      http://www.rslqld.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=YJrh%2FIIE7yo%3D&tabid=104

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #145 07, 30, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      One more thing Epaminondas, read Michael Lees (British) book called 'The Rape of Serbia: The British Role in Tito's Grab For Power 1943-1944'. You'll see that Cetniks were on the side of the Allies and that Churchill's circle of ministers had been infiltrated by communist sympathisers. He was tricked into believing reports Mihailovic was a collaborator and he admitted later in private that he was wrong in thinking Cetniks collaborated with Nazis. Communist disinformation! So why would Cambridge teach the wrong info? Firstly because you probably never went there (others on forums always claim they went to Cambridge, because it's [...]

      Read the full comment the most famous), and secondly after WWII there was a lot of Communist propaganda coming out of Yugo and to somewhat lure Yugoslavia away from the Soviet-Bloc (and what a coup that would've been), the West listened to Tito. Tito played both East and West like a fiddle. Getting aid from both.

    • Anonymous
      drini i madh Rating:
      neutral
      #144 04, 55, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      http://www.awm.gov.au/search/results.asp?cx=001764270972611125989%3A77q6fd8uhow&cof=FORID%3A11&amp;q=serb#229

      the link from the australian war memorial,

      some flys try to lick its every corner. But australia has no time for these wimps.

    • Anonymous
      drini i madh Rating:
      neutral
      #143 04, 53, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      "Why did our former president of the Victorian RSL specifially say that "Crotians will never be allowed to march because they were on the side of bloody Hitler?"

      State the link to that quote please, and not to the serbianna website were you made that rediculous statment!

      And since it has been tons of serbs being thanked at anzak, a photo video or an official publication would be nice to see.

      Here are chetniks and germans
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chetniks_with_German_soldiers.jpg

      Almost [...]

      Read the full comment as good a feeling as nazzis with soviets shaking hands in the middle of poland. :)

      Pictures worth a thousand words.


      http://www.awm.gov.au/search/results.asp?cx=001764270972611125989%3A77q6fd8uhow&cof=FORID%3A11&amp;q=serb#229
      The direct link to Aust war memorial does not show a single hint of a Serb even being remotly connected with Australia.

      But it is good that we are on the same page of Australia being right then and now.

      Than it stood up to fascists and genocide. Today the same thing, just nazzis have changed to serbs.

      In both ww they helped the innocent against the agressors, so did they in the 90's and recently with recognition.

      Peggy you are a refugee in Australia, you dont have a voting power, so that guy you put words in his mouth in is your master.

      Dont bite the hand that feeds you!
      :)

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #142 02, 13, Mon, Sep 21 2009

      Firstly Epaminondas is trying to sound high with his user name... Anyway if he knew anything about "Central Europe" he'd know that Draza Mihailovic and his Cetniks were on the side of the allies the entire war, Nedic was the only Serb collaborator. If he was such a collaborator then why did Truman award him the Legion of Merit posthumously. He was killed in 1946, so that means it was after he "collaborated", why would they give a collaborator the Legion of Merit. Gee, great degree at Cambridge. They helped 513 downed US airmen - read the Forgotten 500 by [...]

      Read the full comment Gregory Freeman - seeing as your area is Central Europe and not ANZAC Day you won't know anything about the march, and you've shown that you don't. Serbs have marched in ANZAC Day forever and Croats, Germans, Japanese etc are not allowed. So don't come here and talk about something. Another thing, everyone who tries to sound knowledgable always states their education is at Cambridge. Which sounds like lies to me, because your arguments have flaws in them. I've been to Belgrade and everyone has been so accommodating to me, I went in 2008 the last time, so maybe you should go again sometime soon and update your stone age arguments

    • Anonymous Peggy Sun, Sep 20 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained авторски права.

      Anonymous Epaminondas Sun, Sep 20 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained авторски права.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #139 14, 25, Sun, Sep 20 2009

      Epaminondas, I really cannot understand if you are trying to needle me on purpose or you really don't pay attention.

      I have posted many links and sources here already. Most of them are from non Serbs and non Serbian seites so why the hell are you mentioning Serbianna for?

      What about the sources I have already given and links from non Serbian sites? Have you completely forgotten about them or are you pretending to be that ignorant?

      It is impossible to debate anything with you when you write [...]

      Read the full comment such garbage and tell me that I have done things I have not. In future kindly respond to my sources and links if you wish to discredit them but do not say that I use Serbianna to prove my point. I know I have given one link to from a Serbian site and I even stated that it was on purpose because I knew that someone like yourself will take that as all I have even supplied. This just proved me right.

      I really don't give a damn about your education. You are trying to sound superior here but I have noticed that you conveniently ignore the points people make and I have made myself and go off in a totally different direction when you see that you cannot prove those points wrong.

      You, sir, are very biased against the Serbs and instead of addressing what is supplied to you, you will more likely start another topic like Vukovar etc. Let's stick to what is being said. I wanted to discuss Jasenovac with you which you clearly don't wish to and when you did mention it you made a ridiculous statement about the Muslims being killed there.

      If you have studied history like you say, you would not be ignorant of what went on there, that's for sure.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #138 10, 41, Sun, Sep 20 2009

      Peggy - well, to answer your question, any site with the title "Serbianna" is likely to present events from a distinctly pro-Serbian perspective, just like any site called "Croatiana" is likely to present events with a pro-Croatia "spin". You don't have to have an MA in History to spot this one.

      As it happens, I do happen to possess a double MA in History, both from Cambridge and from Krakow, with my special subject Central European History. Plus 10 years spent in the region in post-Communist days working for the British Government. So I hope that [...]

      Read the full comment this gives me enough in the way of credentials to pass some fairly authoritative comments, which answers your second question.

      I am bound to ask you in turn - have you ever actually been to Serbia and to Beograd ? I have - many times from 1962 to 2005 - and it is not a place to linger. True, the fact that our office in Ulica Nemanjina was right next door to the building that NATO bombed may have caused a certain reaction against foreigners by the local population, but there is no excuse for local yobs throwing eggs and shouting abuse at a Bosnian diplomat in a Muslim headscarf in the city centre (I had to go and rescue the diplomat lady and take her into our hotel. She was very upset.)

      And then there is Vukovar....a visit there is never to be forgotten, and the photos that I took of the devastation and the mass graves stunned the local office staff at the Ministry back in London.

      By the way, I do speak and read Serbo-Croat in both cyrilitsa and latinitsa, so this is not the reaction of an outraged monoglot ourist in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      I hope this helps explain my position and is helpful.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #137 03, 41, Sun, Sep 20 2009

      Epaminodas, your words here,

      I pass this on (without comment) as a pretty thorough account from a Serbian viewpoint about what the Bosnian Nazi-led troops did during WW II. It does not make pleasant reading. It is almost certainly not 100% true, either, though there are enough specifics given to make one pause in condemning it all as propaganda.

      You seem to talk as an authority on everything here but you don't actually specify anything.

      You say that it is not 100% true. OK I will accept that [...]

      Read the full comment but only if you can say which parts of it are not true and offer us more accurate information and sources.

      You cannot just dismiss something without correcting it and showing us where you get it from.

      I have noticed that when others and myself include links and information you seem to dismiss them as this or that but why should we accept that YOUR information is 100% correct and take your word for everything. You seem to have a problem with most posts here and are constantly dismissing information offered without actually providing evidence of your own claims to counter ours.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #136 19, 50, Sat, Sep 19 2009

      Sami - having gone through this long series of threads and discussion, I find myself in very large agreement with your analysis, especially that in some of your earlier postings on this thread. I shan't contribute - the thread is long enough - but you do have one supporter here.

    • Profile preview
      TSE Moderator Rating: 8
      neutral
      #135 15, 47, Sat, Sep 19 2009

      Oi, keep it it civil in here, please. A few messages were deleted not because of their stance, but the personal attacks against others in the discussion. If you resort to name calling, do not be surprised if your post gets deleted, regardless of the rest of their content.

    • Profile previewTSE ModeratorSat, Sep 19 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained не е по темата на статията

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #133 13, 53, Sat, Sep 19 2009

      Stupid of me - I forgot to post the actual link. Here it is:

      http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/006.shtml

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #132 13, 52, Sat, Sep 19 2009

      I pass this on (without comment) as a pretty thorough account from a Serbian viewpoint about what the Bosnian Nazi-led troops did during WW II. It does not make pleasant reading. It is almost certainly not 100% true, either, though there are enough specifics given to make one pause in condemning it all as propaganda.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #131 10, 42, Sat, Sep 19 2009

      Grateful to Aries for his detailed factual account of what the Albanians actually did during WW II, which is complicated by any standards. What Aries says certainly fits in with my own slightly less detailed knowledge, especially the bit about Enver Hoxha, and I suggest we all accept it as a definitive account for the moment.

      It supports my contention that there were only two (out of 27) Waffen SS foreign Divisions local to the Balkans - the 13th (Bosniak/Croatian) and the 21st (Albanian). The rest were from further north in Europe, though the Flemish and [...]

      Read the full comment Ukrainian Divisions became particularly notorious for their brutality, as were the Latvian Division. Subject to what Aries says, I believe the Albanian Division was more concerned with settling old scores and local blood-feuds in the traditional Albanian way, than it was in taking part in any wider Nazi or German military activity.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #130 17, 30, Fri, Sep 18 2009

      Bato ignore this fool Trinity. He is looking for someone to provoke. Yes, he started to irritate to either get a reaction and then acuse us of being uncivilised or he is really that much of a simpleton.
      I have to belive that he is doing this to irritate as he cannot possibly think that he sounds intelligent by the way he writes and tries to attack and ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with him.
      I was silly to bite and start with a neverending match against him.

      You're right about the [...]

      Read the full comment Australian education being far superior to anything they must have in Tirana. We can see the result of his great education.

      I too live in Australia and have been schooled here. I guess it is not good enough for people like Trinity. They have benefited from their Albanian system and are now trying to say we are no match for their superior intellect.

    • Anonymous
      ARIES Rating:
      neutral
      #129 15, 54, Fri, Sep 18 2009

      THE ORIGIMNS OF SERBIAN ALLEGED BRUTALITY.

      The PARTIA FASHISTE E SHQIPERISIE – PFSH movement which held nominal power in Albania from 1939, when the country was occupied by Italy, until 1943,. Afterward, Albania fell under German occupation, and the PFSH was replaced by the ALBANIAN NAZI PARTY The PFSH branch of the National Fascist Party (PNF) Black Shirts ,During the Italian occupation the PFSH did realize the vision of Greater Albania, expanding the borders of Albania into modern-day Greek Epirus (Chameria crap) and Serbian Kosovo (ethnic Albanian crap) Muslims were allowed to join. Certainly not Jews [...]

      Read the full comment
      If I am not mistaken Enver Hoxha refused to join the PFSH.
      Bad luck for Maliq Bej Bushati a nationalist, who tried to reorganize the PFSH as the Guard of Great Albania and working from Italy, striking fascist symbols from the flag .two fasces, one on each side of the Albanian eagle) and asserting Albanian autonomy by the usual way fascists do (mussolini was a goog teacher). However, the country's occupation by Nazi Germany changed the political situation in the country
      The German SD leader Ernst Kaltenbrunner The Sicherheitsdienst (SD, Security Service) was the intelligence service of the SS ) reorganized the Guard of Great Albania into the Albanian Nazi Party, which had formal control of Albania. German control over Albania was looser than in other territories; the Albanian Nazi government did not expand systematic persecution of Jews to deportation or killings. Albanian volunteers did, however, forming an SS division, the 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian).
      The Third Reich surrendered , Albania descended into civil war; The Albanian Nazi Party fought against Communism both in Albania and in Kosovo,
      As for the Croatian and Bosnian part
      The 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) was a division part of the Waffen-SS during World War II. The majority of the recruited were Bosniaks (90%) and Croats (10%). Handschar (Bosnian/Croatian: Handžar) was the local word for the TURKISH SCIMITAR A HISTORICAL SYMBOL OF THE BOSNIAKS(MUSLIMNS BY NATIONALITY) The division was used to onduct operations against Yugoslav Partisans in the Independent State of Croatia from February to September 1944 the division adorned it’s symbol “the Handschar “.






    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #128 08, 33, Fri, Sep 18 2009

      One more thing, you're the one spitting venom at everyone, you need to learn to debate. Do you know what that means? It means respect another persons views and say your own on the matter. Not get aggressive, because you are. Tell your friends Thaci etc that they'd better do what the US tells them, because we've seen what the US does to its "boys" (Milosevic, Hussein), whom they helped get in power, when they start moving away from what the US want. Trinity you're the only one who started this conversation getting personal, we were all happy debating until [...]

      Read the full comment you came and started being aggressive.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #127 08, 29, Fri, Sep 18 2009

      First of all Trinity, you need to learn to string together some sentences and learn to write, because your writing is appalling!! Secondly, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. Yeah, three different slav types, still one country. Tito created the republics. So you are ignorant and Albanians sided with Hitler so don't call me Hitler unless you intend to side with my arguments. My 3rd world Western education in Australia is a lot more than you get in your hole Tirana. Finally, you say Montenegro left. Yeah they did, in a democratic election which the Serbs respected. So if you [...]

      Read the full comment knew your history, after the Yugo civil war, who became Yugoslavia? Serbia and Montenegro. That's right, they didn't want break up of Yugo either.

    • Anonymous Trinity Fri, Sep 18 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #125 23, 31, Thu, Sep 17 2009

      Epamin, it's not easy to keep a civil tongue when someone like Trinity is either relly that simple or just hell bent on irritating by his ridiculous rants.
      Take a look at his style and tell me he doesn't have any intention of debating but is here only to sound silly in order to frustrate.

      I have put details and links to support my arguments and he still managed to call me a silly boy.

      Does Peggy sound like a boy's name to anyone? Really?

      Anyway, [...]

      Read the full comment all that aside I have decided not to respond to Trinity's provocations any longer and totally ignore him, so don't worry about me not having a say here. I will let trinity hang hiself without any help from me.

    • Anonymous
      Epaminondas Rating:
      neutral
      #124 19, 08, Thu, Sep 17 2009

      Peggy and Trinity - if you get any mutually ruder to each other, I think the Moderators may step in. Can we please have a discussion with more light and less heat ?

      My only input into all this so far would be to observe that Jugoslavia was never "one country" - it started off as the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, and later became the "Federativna Republika Jugoslavija" - I've still got a visa in my old UK passport saying so. True, it was a federation in which Belgrade was its capital and held [...]

      Read the full comment the whip hand, but the individual republics within it always kept some measure of their own identity.

    • Anonymous Trinity Thu, Sep 17 2009

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      Anonymous Peggy Thu, Sep 17 2009

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      Anonymous Trinity Thu, Sep 17 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #119 02, 48, Thu, Sep 17 2009

      Once again you don't interpret my comments properly, let's get one thing straight. I know it was a federation of republics... AFTER WWII, and so the break-up of Yugo was only allowed if all parties agreed to it - which they didn't. Also I didn't mean the Govt in Albania, I meant the Kosovo Govt which is made up of Albanians. Read between the lines MATE!! I'm only clarifying my statements so don't take this as a reply to you, you ignorant fascist!

    • Anonymous Trinity Thu, Sep 17 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #117 00, 08, Thu, Sep 17 2009

      Trinity, I am openly calling you a LIAR.
      Thsi is what you say,

      Firstly learn a bit more, the Albanian government didnt have anything to do with Kosovo, Secondly the Kosovo government was handed over authority in 2008.
      Only a extremist churches were destoryed that harboured hate.

      ONLY ONE CHURCH!!!!
      Try 150 for size you liar.

      Albanian government still has nothing to do with Kosovo because Albania ia separate country but it was ALBANIANS EXTREMISTS who burned all thsoe churches and monasteries [...]

      Read the full comment down to the ground and defaced the Icons.

      KLA went on their murderous rampage against anyone who stood in it's way including the Albanians who didn't go along with them. THAT'S A FACT too.

      I am not going to waste any more time with someone as dishonest and hateful as yourself. There is no way a sane person can have a civilized debate with you because you come up with such incredible lies and NOTHING to back them up with.

    • Anonymous Trinity Wed, Sep 16 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #115 14, 11, Wed, Sep 16 2009

      Firstly, none of what you say makes sense, stop rambling. Second, i never said serbs didn't commit crimes, i said EVERYONE did. Thirdly, Serbs weren't fighting in a foreign land, Yugoslavia was one country, and it was to stop the country falling apart. The JNA didn't invade Romania or Italy. So get your facts straight and before you come back with some rant about every Serb in history. What you're saying to me is that no Albanian has ever committed any crime, because that is what you sound like. So you're the one who sounds childish and before you write [...]

      Read the full comment back to me, don't because all you do is verbally abuse everything and everyone, so I'm not going to read your comments.

      Kosovo for Albanians!! Eh? Don't you dare tell anyone except your Albanian friends that Serbs are the only ones disturbing the peace, once again 2004 was a really good year to express to the world how an Albanian govt can control ethnic hatred from Albanians.

    • Anonymous Trinity Wed, Sep 16 2009

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      AnonymousPeggyWed, Sep 16 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #112 11, 34, Wed, Sep 16 2009

      "it seems Albanians, Croats and Bosniaks are in denial because they never admit any wrongdoing and always point the finger at the Serbs. That's denial if I ever saw it"

      Bla bla bla, Are you blaming the Polish of resisting nazzis?
      The Hungarians of fighting Russkis 56?
      The Finish sloughtering Russkis winter war?
      Or are you saying that it was bad for the allies to flaten Dresden after the London bombing ww2?"

      No, see you don't understand trinity. I'm not accusing the Croats of killing JNA [...]

      Read the full comment members, I'm accusing them of killing Serbian civilians. Poles killed Nazi soldeiers, not German civilians; Finns killed Russian soldiers, not any Russian civilians. They probably did. I'm saying not only Serbs killed civilians, everyone did. Atrocities occur in all wars, the US in Vietnam. Ever heard of the My Lai massacre? Read about it, shows that the US isn't as high and mighty as they think. That's not condoning it, but you can't go through life and say that no side in any war didn't attack civilians, and the Albanians/KLA did as well. You interpreted my point incorrectly. All you keep saying is blah blah blah, because you have no argument. Peggy's right, there is a saying here in Australia, "When the shoe is on the other foot". You seem to all celebrate how good the EU and Del Ponte were when she was accusing Serbs, but now that she's accusing Albanians she is fictitious. Notice in Kosovo now the protests against EULEX. Why is noone waving Kosovo flags????? They are all waving Albanian flags. Don't lie, Kosovo's independence won't cool tensions at all, it will only fuel the fire.
      Sorry Peggy, I didn't get a chance to see those sites if you could post them again please. Thanks.

    • Anonymous Slava Kostadinova BG Wed, Sep 16 2009

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      Anonymous Trinity Wed, Sep 16 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #109 00, 19, Wed, Sep 16 2009

      Trinity, I see you could not counter my claims or answer the questions.

      Question was, are 62 countries going the wrong way or 130 countries?
      Don't worry about immigration. People immigrate to all countries of the world and immigrate from all countries of the world.
      The question still remains but since you don't have an answer I think I can conclude you don't know what you are talking about.

      Eather that or you are speaking purely from hatred of Serbs.

    • Anonymous
      Trinity Rating:
      neutral
      #108 13, 53, Tue, Sep 15 2009

      "Then the Albanians must be the retards because they cannot see that 62 countries are driving in one direction but 130 in another."

      Well Iran wants to evaporate Israel, Lybia wants to dismantle Switserland, Russia recognised 80 thousand people in 2 "countrys".
      As for the rest, they are dying every day on boats to come to western countrys, every day!
      How many of the serbian diaspora lives in these 62 countrys than the rest?

      "When Carla was the chief prosecutor and only condemning Serbs I did not hear [...]

      Read the full comment one Albanian saying she was writing fiction. But now that she has written something negative about Albanians you all claim it is fiction.
      Is she a fiction writer or not?"

      So no proof? just more bla bla bla.

      At work (carla) she worked with facts, once she was off work she could raise catle or be a civilian space tourist, she chose to write a fiction book.

    • AnonymousPeggyTue, Sep 15 2009

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      AnonymousTrinityTue, Sep 15 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #105 11, 11, Mon, Sep 14 2009

      Bato, I have noticed that three of my posts which include three more links have disappeared from here.
      There is only one left.

      I hope you had a chance to look at them. If not I will post them again. I wonder why the were removed. There was nothing wrong with them and they were only links without any commentary on from me.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #104 11, 08, Mon, Sep 14 2009

      Bato, 9 to 1 are the only odd that Albanians like. They would not dare attempt to do this if the odds were even.
      They are only brave when they gang up 9 to 1 or they are attacking an elderly couple like they have many times or attacking children.

      They are the last people on earth to point a finger at anyone. Anyone who can harvest organs like a ghoul is something else.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #103 08, 18, Mon, Sep 14 2009

      Also, everyone says that Serbs are in denial of what has happened. I disagree!!!!!!!!!! Most Serbs recognise the bad things that have occurred, it seems Albanians, Croats and Bosniaks are in denial because they never admit any wrongdoing and always point the finger at the Serbs. That's denial if I ever saw it

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #102 08, 13, Mon, Sep 14 2009

      That's right Peggy, the pogrom occurred 5 years after Serb Military, Para-military and police were FORCED out of Kosovo. So as a result, Serbs have noone of their own to protect them, no wonder it's the civilians who fight. Anyway I once again ask EVERYONE; Why are Pro-Serb sources always wrong and anti-Serbs always have the right information and stats? That's a load of crap and it's denial, always stating that Serb sources are ill-informed and just propaganda. Wake up, the Albanians/Croatians/Bosnians all DID BAD THINGS, INCLUDING MASSACRES AND ETHNIC CLEANSING. If you're going to deny it then you must [...]

      Read the full comment grow up quickly!!
      Also you say that the conflict is in the north and as a result of Serbs. Guess what, the majority of Serbs live in the north yes and that is where the frontier is between Serbs and Albanians, it doesn't mean it's a result of Serbs. Be realistic, it's human nature to gang-up on others. Serbs are outnumbered 9:1 in Kosovo, why on Earth would Albanians be fearful of Serbs? Clearly it's Serbs who are fearful of Albanians who outnumber them... 9:1, they're big odds.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #101 22, 59, Sun, Sep 13 2009

      Sami you wrote this,

      Albanians did not touch any houses of worship in Kosovo until the very end, when it became clear that several so-called "houses of God" were being offered by militant fanatical orthodox "priests" as places to store weapons ammunition and special forces soldiers! AS A RESULT, THOSE SPECIFIC LOCATIONS BECAME TARGETS, SINCE THEY BECAME ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN STATE-SPONSORED TERRORISM FROM BELGRADE! (sick indeed, and shameful)

      Yes Sami it is sick and shameful that you STILL persist is lies.
      What year did the war end?

      [...]

      Read the full comment /> The whole world knows that in year 2004 there war NO WAR yet this is when you people did most of your church and monastery burning. There is PROOF all around. There is footage of it happening. How dare you try to still lie when it is so easy to discredit you?

      Is this why you go into long winded speeches about this and that just to throw people off what they are actually asking you and start with your crap. Yes Sami, what you say is crap. You talk a lot but avoid the truth.

      The Albanians refer to themselves as Shiptars so why is it derogatory then? Shiptar is the Albanian word. I have heard Albanians refer to themseves as that with my own ears. Look up Jim Belushi and see how he refers to Albanians and he is one himself. So what do you want from others when this is your own word?

      You know what, you have become a real pain now with your annoying ways.

      BTW, don't worry about the French, Enlishe etc having the whole story. They do have the whole story but at present keeping Kosovo separate from Serbia serves their purposes nicely and they will pretend to give you independence. That is the ONLY reason they are going along with you. You are useful here because you don't mind then raping Kosovo of all it's potential. They will treat Kosovo as their own. Even now they do because they make the decisions not that snake in your "government". They have their military camp there which is not going anywhere no matter what you say. They will tell your "government" what to do and what assets to sell to them at bargain prices. They will use your labour to make them more money.

      THAT IS WHY THEY ARE THERE. They know all about Illyrian myth and will let you spread it for as long as you are useful to them.

      Yes, we all know the truth, but for some the truth is not useful so you and they lie.

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #100 19, 31, Sun, Sep 13 2009

      typo, i meant to say "not ONLY protecting churches & monasteries"

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #99 19, 30, Sun, Sep 13 2009

      perhaps the next generation of Serbs will be less willing to hide behind such fanciful propaganda... to think that after centuries of living together, so many stories of Albanians not all protecting Christian Churches and Monasteries during the time of the Ottomans, BUT, in fact, having built many of them (sometimes with Serbs, sometimes without Serbs) so long ago when most Albanians of this region were Orthodox Christians. you just have no perspective dear. and many of those Albanian Orthodox of our region were later labeled "Serbs" while Albanian muslims were labeled "Turks"... the same game happened along the Albanian [...]

      Read the full comment border with Greece, where Albanian Christians were labeled "Greeks" while Albanian muslims were labeled "Turks" or "Turko-Albanians"... so there are far too many distortions to cover here, but the fact is you are not really knowledgeable about the level of distortion that has taken place in our region.

      Back to the present, there is no question that Serbians BURNED CATHOLIC CHURCHES as they fought their neighbors the Croatians, and also BURNED MOSQUES while massacring the Bosnians.

      Albanians did not touch any houses of worship in Kosovo until the very end, when it became clear that several so-called "houses of God" were being offered by militant fanatical orthodox "priests" as places to store weapons ammunition and special forces soldiers! AS A RESULT, THOSE SPECIFIC LOCATIONS BECAME TARGETS, SINCE THEY BECAME ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN STATE-SPONSORED TERRORISM FROM BELGRADE! (sick indeed, and shameful)

      as for this new found tolerance that exists in Serbia, i hope your imagination will transform into reality and the hungarians in Vojvodina will be permitted to live in peace, and i also hope that you teach your people to stop referring to Albanians as "Skiptars" the Serbian equivalent of the N word that was used to denigrate Africans in America for so long. it is still perfectly common and acceptable to use the word "Skiptar" as a derogatory reference to Albanians.

      similar in pattern to the etymological relationship between the N word and the word Negro, which simply means person of black color, the word "Skiptar" has become derogatory even though it simply derives from Shqiptar 'people of the eagle' which is the name Albanians use to refer to themselves, since they originate in the high mountains where the Dinaric Alps of Europe begin in Northern Albania.

      in other words, in order to denigrate a people, a common human pattern is to take a word which describes them and transform it into an insult, then use it incessantly until the cultural or physical characteristic of a people becomes associated with something negative.

      Peggy, you have your work cut out for you dear. i hope Serbia will have a bright future, but this plague of denial that consumes every half-developed thought coming out of your mind is... well... fatiguing to the modern world.

      and finally, kosovo is mostly quite peaceful. the problems that exist in the north are related to two issues 1) pride - serbs who have gone from dominating albanians in this region for 100 years are suddenly forced to exist as normal citizens with no special rights or advantages, and 2) belgrade continues to interfere and be a source of instigation and provocation by sending in advisors from Belgrade and arms to help Serbs continue to reside in Albanian homes in north Mitrovica....

      but it doesn't matter much, in the end, the French, Italians, Americans, Germans, and English now have the whole story, including the deep history going back to the Illyrian days and the arrival of the Slavs... the name changes, the assimilation... the religious wars, the Byzantine Crusades, etc. AND they also now have a very clear picture of historical Albanian religious tolerance, the fact that today in Albania the top posts of president, foreign minister and prime minister are held by a muslim, catholic and orthodox albanian... something IMPOSSIBLE in either Serbia or Greece (notwithstanding your vision of a ethnically tolerant new serbia, which would be nice to see some day)...

      and everyone is now aware of what Yad Vashem confirms as Albania's unique role in saving ALL the jews on its territory... in fact having 3 times more jews in Albania after WWII than before... so ...

      peggy, let's just stop all this bullshit and begin to look for the good points on each side... the days of debating and propagandizing are over, since the main knowledge about Albanians, Illyrians, Dardhania, etc. is now common knowledge in the main capitols of the modern democratic world. your only hope was to keep that knowledge from being rediscovered, in time to avert independence... that moment has passed...

      the next question is whether Serbia is courageous enough to embrace its Illyrian dimension? next step, schools in Albanian in Belgrade? are you that open or curious about your past?

      or is an assimilated Illyrian (most Serbs), having been robbed of his ancient language, to remain enslaved in a peculiar and militant mono-theistic prison that keeps him from the truth about his pagan past, where he once enjoyed true freedom going back to the time of the stone age...

      this is where the REAL truth is to be found Peggy... you are my long-lost sister... are you ready to come back to the fold? our language is so beautiful... somehow, we managed to preserve it through all the invasions... through oral tradition only! it's nearly miraculous... a sign of the true warrior culture who loves freedom more than anything else...

      come back Peggy... when you open your heart, you will suddenly find all the hate and judgement about Albanians disappear, as you realize we are different parts of the same body... that is the truth...

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #98 03, 38, Sun, Sep 13 2009

      Sami, you sure write a long and heart string pulling story, but your story is aimed at the wrong people.

      Try saying all this to your Albanian brother. Serbs do live in peace with their fellow human beings and they don't want their church to be the tallest of worship places. They have proven that by having a country which is the most ethnically diverse and tolerant. No place of worthip is destroyed in Serbia.

      CAN YOU SAY THE SAME IN KOSOVO?

      Nobody is Serbia is living behind [...]

      Read the full comment barbed wire and needs NATO escort to go to their place of worship or school.

      CAN YOU SAY THE SAME IN KOSOVO?

      Serbs did not go on a frenzy burning and destroying Albanian religeous sites.

      CAN YOU SAY THE SAME IN KOSOVO?
      How many churches and monasteries have been burned in Kosovo? I have seen footage of what your borhters have don there.

      Yes, you make a nice speech and yes I believe that we should live together in peace and so do most of the Serbs.

      CAN YOU SAY THE SAME OF ALBANIANS IN KOSOVO?

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #97 20, 26, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      Branimir... what can I say to you my friend, you are missing the essential lesson of all of our dialogs here. the point is we are 80% similar, and out of the remaining 20% that contains our differences, the majority can be characterized by ignorance of history or the very human need to feel special or closer to the infinite. that's the bottom line.

      you can write about propaganda and glorify its capacity to guide unconscious human minds along one or another path, but what you underestimate time and again is the power of consciousness to [...]

      Read the full comment transcend all of this nonsense. and in an age of maximum information, consciousness is rising... it doesn't matter whether it's in China, Russia, the U.S., or little Kosovo or Serbia... people are learning about each other and learning to be more tolerant.

      so i disagree with your tragic assessment of the potential of our region to find a unifying force.

      perhaps the big takeaway for you is that no single house of worship will stand tallest at the end of this game. what may seem like the right card for you to play today (although recent history suggests you are really playing with lagging indicators) is actually a defunct system that is in its dying last years. the world is coming together and realizing that the concept of God is a universal one that manifests within all living and moving elements in the universe and certainly does not pay much attention to the tiny human twiglets (read Denominations) that pretend to have greater access to its powers.

      believe me brother, i have nothing against Serbs and i would love to see all barriers fall between us. believers of various kinds should be permitted to move, live, play, worship where they wish and the creative of our young must be permitted to emerge and grow in an environment free of historical chains and obsessional mythologies.

      and if you are so sure that Serbia is the natural birthplace of a new communal Balkan vision, then in that spirit i say to you BUILD IT BROTHER! lead the way, be the example, prove the naysayers and doubters wrong, transform those that fear the Serbian extremism of old, start a new chapter... i think you will find that most of humanity will follow if you are able to transcend disfigurement and put forth an inspiring vision for our region.

      why not. this albanian will support you, let's see what we can do, perhaps we can work together? perhaps the answer is to stop searching for a centralized solution and try to work to achieve greater freedom and tolerance in general for everyone.

      what is your vision specifically? are you prepared to articulate it? can we arrange to take care of all the displaced and move on? and if some who are displaced do not want to move to one area or another, can we find a way to give them options too? so they can feel that they have a say in the matter? a choice?

      how far are you willing to go? are you actively engaged in cleansing your heart of judgement and releasing the frustrations of the recent very painful period? does this cleansing of your vision lead to occasional feelings of affection and/or sympathy for your Albanian brothers and sisters as much as for your Serbian brothers and sisters?

      can you envision a day when we look upon each other as just brothers and sisters?

      i can... i really can... i am trying right now, and i am succeeding...

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #96 05, 02, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      "There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?"

      -Robert Kennedy paraphrasing a character from a George Bernard Shaw play.

      Yes well, look at how things turned out in the end. That's why not. The elites of this world will not let it happen. It simply does not suit them to allow people to have self because they can't exploit them that way.

      Perhaps everyone should look at this speech given by [...]

      Read the full comment Michael Parenti, author of "To Kill a Nation". It is a bit lengthy but well worth a look.

      Here is a link for anyone who is still confused about what happens when the interests of the elites colide with the interests of the people.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs&feature=email

    • Anonymous neutral
      #95 03, 23, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      Sami with all due respect, The Albanian diaspora is neither more intelligent nor better prepared. I shall state why. The Albanian diaspora had one objctive and one onnly, it was to raise money for the interests of its people first and formost and secondly to sponsor the interests of the west by way of funding. If there are 4 million albanians world wide and through 50 years each one gives 5 dollars weekly, the sum would add up to about 50 Billion, which would be more then enough to fund the American , EU, and Albanian interests were ever they [...]

      Read the full comment should be.

      The Serbian diaspora on the other hand, also has such organisations, it has its clubs its Churches , Monasteries,youth organisations and many more. If you wish, you could go onto the google and find out how mnay churches and monateries there are outside serbia, then figure out how much they would cost to build then to maintain. I will not go on, because i can see your a bright man in the sense that you do use your brain. The serbian diaspora has offered many world renowned people, and only in the USA alone it has left a great deal of influence, not to mention, Australasia, Germany, France , Italy, Turkey and Russia to such extremes that to this day they are side by side with Serbia and its people on the fight for its interests.

      Im not sure if you read once before by i stated how useful propaganda is , and that its impact is much stronger then the nuclear bomb, because the bomb destroys all in its path were Propaganda is installed in the brain of the living and untill they pass away its hard to change the average mans mind.

      Serbia used propaganda, were it could, In Serbia proper, in Russia to a certain extent but not in many more places because the interests at the time were on the side of the Albanian cause, so the propaganda and Media war, was obviously on the side of the Albanians. To this day the mention 1 million displaced albanian, yet we see 250000 thousand less of all minorities in kosovo and 200000 of them serb, with a rise in numbers from the albanian population by 300000 in only 10 years.! Not even birth rate can go so high in such a short time, keeping in mind Kosovos citizens next to Albanian citizens are the poorest in Europe and havd the largest number of unemplyment.

      Serbia has the largest mixture of minorities in all of the balkans, Serbia would be the base for such a federation between the people of the balkans, but as it were before it would be disrupted by the visions of the Albanian, Bosniaks, Croats , Macedonians, Slovenians, Bulgarians and again we would have a stle mate and end up up most likely in a war, were by serbia being the largest single group would loose the largest amount of its people AGAIN and AGAIN be blamed as agressors. So we should not dare speak of such things in a time when, Croatia and Slovenia argue over borders, Hungary and Romania over minorites, Bosnia with its internal problems as we know, Montenegro confused who they belong to and waiting for better days to come on there OWN, Albania refusing to cooperate with Eulex on organ trafficking, Kosovo trying to gain independance, Greece and Macedonia in a name dispute. Hahaha, think about it, its actually funny, that such federation could not happen in the next 200 years.. OR more!

      What else could we debate over? Im sure its interesting for people to hear the other side and other opinions, because in this world we have 6.5 billion people, 6.5 billion opinions which all vary in the own rights, but that is why we have governments and the UN and its official members to minimise the interests, that is why empires were formed and Federations are established, unions and created so these things do not impact on the day to day life of ordinary people, and it gives them a chance to LIVE without the impact of such things. I understand the will of the albanians living in the automous region of kosovo to gain independance, but such move would create open questions, firstly in Bosnia were 49% of it is controlled by serbs and im sure no one who dislikes the serbs would have that in there interest for serbia to spread from bulgaria to croatia, the Mediteranean to Hungary. Then we would have, Macedonia, Then hungarians in Romania and SLovakia, Spain would be split in 3 ways, Bulgaria also has its issues so does greece, So would china. Turkey has 25% of its nation filled with kurds who to this day are the largest group of any people without its mother nation, Africa, South America, Asia. Think, that would create almost 300 nations in the UN 300 different interests, ways of life, rule of law and it would lead to another War which could be dissastrous for Mankind, and that should be the only interest for us. To stay alive and live in peace, together, with the interest the well being of all children growing up.

      I cant type anymore, im sure many of you will think twice after reading this, mayby thinking 10 times would be better.

      I believe with heart and mind Kosovo should stay part of serbia, Albanians should have there rights for freedom of speech culture langauage religion and everything else a nation must offer its minority groups, but not Independance. We have lived together for many years before, not only for the 10 years milosevic was incharge for, and dont get me wrong, he wasnt an angel, but then which leader was for the opposite communities. Thaci for serbs , NO. That is just normal, all we would be going back to is the power of the Media and propaganda it used at the time to win over its interests.

      Serbia has been a nation for a long time, Serbia will set a new standard on the balkans which will give people reason to believe it has moved forward and created a new strategy for the way of life of all people on the balkans, it has already started on that path, it started that way many years ago but was unbfortunatly because of external interests stopped, but has not forgotten. On the other hand, not one country from the former yugoslavia or bulgaria and albania have by any measure compared with that of serbia in sense of Human rights, Protection of Minorites, rights to Minorites. Not one, except Serbia.

      Time will tell, everything on this earth passes by, Only God lives forever, and once we pass on this earth we enter his Kingdom, A place evryone will be scared to enter because there and only there we will be judged, every single one of us, for the Good and Bad we have done on this Passing earth.

      Kosovo Is Serbian

    • Anonymous
      JoAnne Rating:
      neutral
      #94 02, 56, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      KOSOVO WILL ALWAYS BE SERBIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      HOLY LAND OF THE SERBS, LIKE JERUSALEM IS TO THE JEWS, MECCA IS TO THE MUSLEMS, ALAMO IS TO THE TEXANS. AND ROME IS TO THE CATHOLICS.

      WHAT RIGHT DOES THE US HAVE TO GIVE THIS SACRED LAND AWAY?

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #93 01, 25, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      I think you can argue that the West wanted to eliminate all Russian beachheads in Europe and the fall of Jugoslavia fell into that plan, especially as it was the last beachhead - not to mention the weird Chinese relationship with Belgrade at the time and the spy center they were running out of their embassy in Belgrade.

      I don't think the West would care if a secular, multi-cultural Balkan Federation were to take shape, not today. The whole issue of the Balkans is basically off the radar now that the focus is so heavily on [...]

      Read the full comment resources and the middle east. It's yesterday's news, as is our little debate, if we are completely honest. :-)

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #92 01, 21, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      "There are those who look at things the way they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?"

      -Robert Kennedy paraphrasing a character from a George Bernard Shaw play.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #91 01, 05, Sat, Sep 12 2009

      Sami,

      " Personally, I think we are all so similar that we should form an open Balkan Federation of some kind without borders. That would include all of former Jugoslavia, Albania, Greece and perhaps Bulgaria, Romania and even Turkey."

      Haven't you heard. Yugoslavia broke up. It was so easy for the west to break them up because of their intollerance and desire to have their own countries. Why would something which includes more diversity work?
      Eventually the war would only spread to more countries when the fued started again and [...]

      Read the full comment the inevitable break up begins.

      Oh I totally support the idea of them living in some sort of union in peace. If that was possible I would be firt one to vote for it, but common sense tells me not to dream but to look at how things really are and work with that.

    • AnonymousSami BushatiFri, Sep 11 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #89 12, 00, Fri, Sep 11 2009

      Sami, well you managed not to address any of my points but went straight into attac mode again.

      You said,

      )" propaganda... since using moral equivalency arguments as a way of reducing responsibility for the Serbian side is a tried and true method, well documented by Mao"

      No that is not what I am doing and you know it. You are trying to put words in my mouth and it won't work.
      You are the one who is running away from the issue not me. I [...]

      Read the full comment have already stated that I admit that Serbs have committed crimes. What I say is that they have not committed any more crimes than the others against them. This is in no way trying to reduce responsibility but put it all in perspective. You on the other hand is denying any responsibility because you use words such as "probably" when talking about the crimes of the other two sides.

      Then you go with,

      "you underestimate your foe, the Albanian Diaspora, who is a much better educated and clear-headed group of individuals,"

      This is only your opinion. What evidence have to to make such a statement? Produce the evidence or kindly keep this rubbish to yourself.

      Also you say,

      "crawl back into your hole Peggy, no one in 2009 is interested in hearing how Serbia is the new champion of the humanist movement in the Balkans. (although it would be wonderful if it were to be true)"

      NO need to be rude now. What hole are you talking about?
      I know that you and your fellow Albanians are not interested in anything I say but you cannot speak for everyone else.

      You really think you are such a clever man and the world just hangs on every word you say but dismisses everything you don't agree with.
      Only 62 governments out of 192 agree with your version. I said governments, not necessarily the citizens of those countries.
      So again, speak for yourself and don't be so arrogant to speak for the rest of the world.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #88 04, 52, Fri, Sep 11 2009

      Peggy, I agree, Serbs aren't defensive because they believe they are innocent, they are defensive because they have copped all the blame. Anyway Sami, once again I agree that there should be stability in the region and everyone living together, but you say Serbs are the only nationalistic ones. Wrong, why did Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, FYR Macedonia and Kosovo break away - nationalism! Unity of a people under one banner, pushing the Serbs out of Republika Srpska Krajina in Croatia is ethnic cleansing and a result of nationalistic views.

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #87 03, 50, Fri, Sep 11 2009

      Peggy, you show your limited understanding of

      1) your own history (i.e. "Servia" and "Serbia" are the same, and the New York Times and many other journals refer to "Servia" quite often during that period)

      2) propaganda... since using moral equivalency arguments as a way of reducing responsibility for the Serbian side is a tried and true method, well documented by Mao

      and

      3) you underestimate your foe, the Albanian Diaspora, who is a much better educated and clear-headed group of individuals, obviously
      [...]

      Read the full comment />
      ---

      dispense with the extreme statements Peggy, no one will be convinced that you are saying anything valuable if you interpret everything i say along fractious combative and ultimately juvenile lines.

      to be clear, my Serbian friends do not believe Serbia has all the blame, how could they, but they are aware of how extreme and fanatical Serbian culture became for a period of about 10 years as a political class acted along classic fascist lines to maintain its power by stirring up hyper-nationalism, imaginary notions of discrimination, even as that same group held the majority of weapons, industry and capital after the fall of Jugoslavia.

      crawl back into your hole Peggy, no one in 2009 is interested in hearing how Serbia is the new champion of the humanist movement in the Balkans. (although it would be wonderful if it were to be true)

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #86 23, 46, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Sami, one more question for you.

      Why do you write Servian istead of Serbian?

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #85 23, 45, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Sami, those other PROBABLY have blood on their hands? Probably?

      Are you kidding me? Here you are telling me that your Serbian friends agree with you on Serbia's crimes and obviously think like you do about others probably having blood on their hands.
      Sami, I will tell you straight. No a a liar.

      I am NOT DENYING that Serbs have committed crimes. I have always openly said that but not what the west is accusint them. They DID NOT commit most of the crimes. All three sides have blood of [...]

      Read the full comment the innocent and that is the nature of a civil war, but there was no genocide. That is a gross exhaggeration.

      There is no way any Serb will let you get away with putting all the blame on the Serbs. That is why I say you a lying and as far as territorial issues are concerned, why don't you discuss it with these people?

      with an attitude like yours I seriously doubt you would have any Serbian friends left becaue you are not being objective but blinded by your Great Albania aspirations. You can deny it but that much is obvious.

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #84 18, 56, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      And since Peggy loves links, here's one for the history books... it kind of tells the tale of how Serbia got Kosovo to begin with (after the fall of the Ottoman Empire) and how she ruled over Kosovo...

      "SERVIAN ARMY LEFT A TRAIL OF BLOOD; Thousands of Men, Women, and Children Massacred in March to Sea, Say Hungarian Reports."

      Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES.
      December 31, 1912, Tuesday
      Page 3, 683 words

      (a simple google search will bring this up)

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #83 18, 51, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      The five of you on the internet are really fighting an uphill battle, but a valiant one. The problem is that you are using old school techniques in an age of cynicism and irreverence, which means your effect wanes quite quickly.

      @Bato, thanks for your comments, I think we agree on most points.

      @Pegg, no I don't think Serbia is responsible for everything and yes I do think all of those you list probably have blood on their hands too. but i think you will never be able to convince the major [...]

      Read the full comment intellectual centers of the world of your peculiar thesis that I or other Albanians are "venomous" in hatred of Serbia. it simply is NOT true and yes i have had open discussion with Serbian friends, most of them MUCH more moderate than you, who do not for a second try to deny the crimes committed by Milosevic, although we do have heartfelt debates about sovereignty, colonialism, real politik and other subjects that I am afraid you might not feel comfortable discussing at such a high level.

      what can anyone say. if you are doing all of this for love of country, be reminded that in the 21st century, we are headed the way of the Roman Empire, namely, no real frontiers, just allegiance to a basket of values and goals (the EU).

      so perhaps the best advice to Serbia is to leave behind all of these failed medieval mythologies and simply accept that we all will have to learn to live together.

      until then, you will continue to celebrate loss as victory, as you did when Prince Lazarus was defeated in the field of the Blackbirds (Kosovo) 600 or so years ago... at that time, Serbians created a beautiful regenerative myth that symbolizes the human spirit as much as it does Serbian culture, namely that Prince Lazarus did not actually lose, but merely CHOSE to live in heaven rather than on earth. today of course, although quaint, this myth does ring silly, and we can see the roots of the uglier effect of this kind of thinking to this day, namely the denial factor and the lack of a sense of personal responsibility within Serbian culture, but i do believe that this aspect can be transformed into something beautiful, if enough Serbians take it to the next level and bring it to the 21st century as a form of inspiration.

    • AnonymousPeggyThu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained не е по темата на статията

    • Anonymous neutral
      #81 16, 03, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Genocide? Would you be referring too the indigenous Slavic minority in east germany? Sorbs? if you want to talk about remembering certain events and go back in time, we shall, lets go back 1500 years..! Tonyb, i recommend you go back to school, and learn how to debate and argue your points, because all you are doing is digging your own hole deeper each time you type a letter. There is a simple fact i will mention. The UN was formed as a world governing body created by the help of USA Britain France Germany Japan and the rest of [...]

      Read the full comment the major players in the recognition and self proclamation of the independance of Kosovo. The same body, In 1999 created The Resolution 1244, which is on the UN site. This Resolution supported by all nations states the following "Kosovo is part of Serbia Legally, under the protection of the UN" and also mentions how Serbia will eventually have the right to return a certain number of its police on the land which it does have soverienty over. The UN is a Organisation with roughly 190- odd members, if we play the game majority rules, then kosovo is not independent seeing as only 65 did recognise such a move and 130 odd did not. The fact is, and it will be proven, Pristina illegally declared independance and was not at all within international law , actually, it was against it. Mayby its you who has the PM, mayby you forgot your mother has the same PM's who gave birth to you. Or, where you also illegally brought onto this earth and are fighting a fight you cant win, so what do you do bark all day to scare people away, but we all know a barking dog is not dangerous. So with time, this bark becomes a pain in the Ass, and what do we do with such pains, Go to the doctor(UN) ask for a precription(resolution 1244) and get rid of the pain..!! Do you understand now? I understand you will have to bark much louder for much longer before you get your medication, but it will come.

    • AnonymousPeggyThu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      AnonymousPeggyThu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained не е по темата на статията

      Anonymous TonyM Thu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

      Anonymous TonyM Thu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

      AnonymousPeggyThu, Sep 10 2009

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      AnonymousPeggyThu, Sep 10 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #74 14, 17, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Sami, I wonder if your Serbian friends agree with you that only Serbs are responsible for the mess there. Have you actually told them that you blame the Serbs and only Serbs for all?

      I seriously doubt it because they would not agree with you. I think you have either not told them the truth about what you really think or you don't have Serbian friends.

      I have a question for you. What do you think of Izetbegovic, Tudjman and Thaci?
      Serisouly, do you think that their hands are clean [...]

      Read the full comment or do you think that they are guilty of war crimes as well?

      Bato, because I can only give one link per post I will have to do it a few times.

      Here is the first link for you,

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger20.html

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #73 14, 16, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      What does any of that have to do with me disliking the KLA? I don't get what you're trying to say, please convey it better. By the way, stop calling people retards and cheap whores. You've lost the plot and now you're turning to insults.

    • Anonymous TonyM Thu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

      Anonymous TonyM Thu, Sep 10 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #70 03, 47, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Sorry, my mistake Israel hasn't recognised Kosovo.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #69 03, 43, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Sami, I agree, I have nothing against Albanians as a whole. But, I do have something against KLA and those Albanians that intimidate Serbs. I am against the US because they are the biggest pushers for independent Kosovo, and bully other countries into recognising. Montenegro and FYR Macedonia only recognised to speed up European integration. US have double-standards and have always wanted to be the biggest power in the world. France recognises Kosovo, yet won't recognise Basque country. Israel (American puppet)won't recognise Palestine but will Kosovo.

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #68 02, 51, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      @Peggy, there is no hate at all in my descriptions. Actually, I have Serbian friends and I think we have many many things in common. Most of what divides us was conceived along religious lines and took shape during the 19th century nationalist movements as Albanians transcended religious divisions and ALL groups came together to discuss their independence, while Serbs & Greeks were led by the nose along crusader pathways by false heroes. You suffer from this problem to this day.

      As for the description of Serbia as having suffered so much under occupations of various [...]

      Read the full comment sorts, there simply is no comparison with what Albanians have experienced going back to early battles with the Greeks and then a full Roman invasion and annexation going back before Christ, followed by the invading hordes of various types, followed by the arrival of the Slavs in the 7th century, followed by the arrival of the Turks who destroyed much of medieval Albania. (Read "The Castle" by Kadare, one of the most incredible accounts of Turkish brutality and Albanian bravery I have ever read)

      Of course, I wouldn't expect an apologist Serb to have much knowledge regarding Albanian culture and history - especially the one unspoken subject, the degree to which Illyrian culture was adopted by the Slavs when they integrated with the Illyrians who occupied the entire land area of ex-Jugoslavia and beyond. By the way, since there is no evidence of genocide or even war between us at the time, my theory is that we actually got along and simply melded together. History also shows us that Albanians and Serbs have both fought on either side of the Ottoman/European divide at various points in history, so there is no ancient precedent for our animosity, only a recent one fabricated by an overzealous band of clerics, nationalists and politicians.

      So no, there is no hate from my side, although I do have contempt for those who try to rewrite history and deny others their humanity. In the digital age, however, I think you are destined to remain a small category of "crazies" who unfortunately will spawn a sort of skinhead minority that adds more discordance to our region (as if we need more).

      @Bato, what can I say... when you equate the bombing of a single bridge with the bombing of whole cities and ancient quarters, I think you really kind of go down a peculiar path of debate.

      As for the left-wing comment, I make it very clear that I am not taking a position on whether it is accurate or not, I am simply saying that apologists for Serbian atrocities don't really have a logical home on the left, where internationalism and racial harmony reside, so one has to conclude that you are there only for opportunistic reasons, just to add to the numbers of individuals that have contempt for the USA.

      Anyway, I say to my Serbian brothers and sisters, put down your arms, stop living in the middle ages and let's try and build a better future, without any national boundaries at all. Our region is so rich in physical beauty and musical, linguistic and culinary traditions, that we should be enjoying the fruits of hundreds of years of toil of our ancestors!!! Not fighting over who OWNS the whole inheritance, or who has the right to exist or be ruled by whom!

      Do you get it? The whole mentality is based on our fragmented psychologies that are a product of so many waves of colonialism and tragedy! That is the fact, that is why our music contains so much emotion and melancholy! We should listen to the messages sent to us from the past through music, dance and poetry! It says enjoy it all now and stop fighting! BALKANS UNITE!

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #67 01, 16, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      Yes Peggy I'd like to see those links. Thanks.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #66 01, 13, Thu, Sep 10 2009

      @ Sami
      Serbs were the only ones who destroyed historical sites? Who destroyed the Mostar Bridge? Let me know the answer when you find out. Please, I want you to tell me. Also you say that these people are all wrong because they are left-wing. Why does every pro-Serb source have to be false, yet all anti-Serb ones are all legit. Grow up.

      @ Brad
      Russia is doing only what the US is doing. The US told Russia to respect Georgia's territorial integrity, yet it hasn't respected Serbia's. That point is dead [...]

      Read the full comment and buried and doesn't need to be brought up because everyone sees the contradiction.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #65 23, 58, Wed, Sep 09 2009

      Sami you sure have a lot of hate here and you sure talk a lot. Guess what, most of the world dissagrees with you.

      You can talk and talk till you are blue in the face but the truth remain the truth.

      You cannot change history just because you disagree with it. Only a fool tries to do that and history shows that Serbs have been victims of brutal crimes and ethnic cleansing throughout the ages. Starting from Turkish occupation to now.

      Go on, keep talking but most [...]

      Read the full comment of the world know the truth, correct that, all the world knows the truth but some discard it because it doesn't serve their purpose.

      Your lies aren't the ruby slippers that by repeating them and clicking them you will get your wish.

    • Anonymous
      Brad Johnson Rating:
      neutral
      #64 23, 24, Wed, Sep 09 2009

      I find Russia's position troublesome and to say the least inconsistent. Russia has championed independence for both South Ossetia and Abkhazia, while at the same time refusing to acknowledge Kosovo's right to self-determination. I am interested to hear the reasoning behind this selective advocacy of a people's right to self-rule. Should the principals of self-determination be applied to the Caucasuses exclusively?

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #63 17, 15, Wed, Sep 09 2009

      Something that reduces your credibility is that you attempt to lump all American actions into a single ideological path, not realizing the complexity of the chess match going on between the Soviets & the Americans.

      What I mean by that is the following: If you want to criticize American actions or speak about the dangers of hegemony, especially after the fall of the Soviet empire, that is one thing. But if you believe that every ethnic or cultural group around the world that fights for recognition and autonomy has its moral position annulled by virtue of [...]

      Read the full comment its relationship to one super power or another, that is simply silly. Your viewpoint has a deep emotional sadness to it and a desperate element as well.

      To try to deny that Milosevic was the aggressor, is to deny the humanity of the victims of that period - the majority of them at the hands of Serbs, of Arkan and his Tigers, of Karadzic the Psychiatrist, and in most cases, sanctioned by a fanatical religious band who was willing to bless soldiers and generals before they embarked on various scorched earth tactics.

      Only Serbia bombed and/or burned historic old parts of great cities in Bosnia (Sarajevo), Croatia (Dubrovnik) and Kosovo (Prizren), which means their intention was to expel the ethnic groups and wipe out their ancient cultural identity.

      If you want to have a debate about the dangers of power concentration in our time, that is fine. But if you want to deny humanity to the victims of genocide, that is ... well... criminal in our era.

      Many who have written the books you refer to are extreme left wing thinkers that are using individuals such as yourself to back up their own efforts to discredit the Western capitalist system. I won't even try to argue a position for or against their beliefs, I am not casting judgement on anyone, but they, like any movement, love to bring in new members, especially confused ones such as yourselves.

      Think about how confused the far left is today, since it now includes a internationalist socialist view, combined with a libertarian anarchist view, combined with the concept of total racial harmony and planetary unity, and has as its newest members, teary-eyed Serbians who lost a war in which they attempted to cleanse sub-tribes from within their own tribe!

      Bosnian Serbs who set up rape hotels where so-called non-Serbs (simply other Southern Slavs with different religious orientations) where chained to beds as they awaited poor fatigued Serbian soldiers and paramilitaries who needed some rest & relaxation after massacring members of their own tribe, described as animals.

      And the famous anecdote of the Bosnian Serb soldier who would say to his raped victim, "don't worry, with my sperm your child will be called Serb".

      :-(

      Come on guys... if you want to save Serbian culture from total extinction, you have to start with pure honesty and personal responsibility. Until that time, you will remain a pariah in Europe, because the rest of Europe has passed through this phase and made peace with many of its regrettable actions. That's part of evolution.

      Remember, if the French, English and Germans can get along, so can we, eventually.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #62 13, 49, Wed, Sep 09 2009

      Bato, forgot to include the title of that documentary. It's called "War on democracy".
      Worth seeing.

      If you would like me to post some links to various article let me know.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #61 13, 45, Wed, Sep 09 2009

      The west does promote freedom of speech but only if you speak what they want you to.

      Actually this is Tony's law at work here.
      Ha ha, he is such a clown.

      There is so much out there written by reputable people but Albanians find fault with all of them.
      Wonder if you have read anything by John Pilger. In his book "The new rulers of the world" on page 140 or so he talks about NATO bombing of Serbia and the targets used.
      He has [...]

      Read the full comment written an article about Kosovo quoting General Lewis MacKnezie on how the Albanians played the west like a fiddle.

      I had good luck in going to see John Pilger speak when he came to Melbourne. He is a very clever investigative journalist. His documentary on what US did in South America is wery good. He talks about US using propaganda to demonise legitimate governments in order to bring them down if they don't town the line.

      Gregory Clark is another one who has written about what happened and he says that Serbs are owed an apology. He is a former Australian diplomat who now lives in Tokyo and is a vice president of the Akita university there.

      Many, many people have written the truth but most have not been published in Australia. John Pilger is published all over the world but not here and he said that when he was over here and invited to a current affair show.

      There is plenty of reputable people talking about how there was no genocide and Racak massacre was staged. Sooner rather than later these people will be heard.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #60 11, 56, Wed, Sep 09 2009

      Thanks Peggy, that was exactly who i was referring to. I thought the west promoted freedom of speech? So for us to go to jail for what we believe is undemocratic if they are "tracking our ip addresses".

    • AnonymousPeggyWed, Sep 09 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #58 18, 27, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      Sorry, mentioned Osama because CIA used him in Afghanistan against Soviets, trained and armed them, and now they are against him. US politics.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #57 18, 25, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      By the way, Kosovo was a province of Serbia and had a good amount of autonomy. The only reason Milosevic cracked down on them and revoked autonomy was because Albanians/KLA were attacking Serbs. Why aren't Kosovo Albanians happy autonomy and live side-by-side with Serbs? Why is the KLA listed as a terrorist organisation by the US/CIA yet the CIA funded the KLA at least during the late 90s? Ulterior motives anyone??? Why can't we all agree on that at least? Please, wake up. The US uses people and then denies knowing them. Osama bin Laden ring a bell? This character [...]

      Read the full comment bin Laden possesses *shock horror* Albanian and Bosnian passports!! Why would these countries give a known terrorist a document that allows him travel to those countries quite easily. He also sent fighters to Kosovo. These are all Interpol notes. Fundamentalists always stick together. What are we going to do with those countries (FYR Macedonia & Montenegro) that have regions with ethnic Albanian majorities. I know, bomb them and cripple them, take away their territory.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #56 18, 06, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      @ Sami
      Why Chomsky wrong on Kosovo?

      I didn't direct you there because he talks about the history, but because he discusses why the West/US did what they did. They had other motives. Others in this forum have said that countries back Serbia because of their own motives, but the video was to illustrate that those who backed Kosovo's independence have their own motives as well.

      @ TonyM
      I like you Tony, you have some good points but I have to disagree with you. Why is Del Ponte [...]

      Read the full comment such a bad source? Being in such a high position I'm sure she would know something.

      @ Peggy
      I agree with your comments on Srebrenica. I can't remember but there was a Swiss intellectual who wrote a book recently about how the situation was warped in favour of Bosniaks. Can't remember his name, if you know can you remind me please.

    • Anonymous
      Ron Rating:
      neutral
      #55 13, 59, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      It is very simple: Kosovo was and is a PROVINCE. Not a STATE.
      So Kosovo has no right to leave Serbia.
      So a mutual agreed deal is needed. There is not such a deal. Like in many, many other cases. Then why make an exception for Kosovo.

      Go Romania! And save international law!

    • Anonymous neutral
      #54 08, 20, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      Romanian President show himself without dignity. He only fearful for his teritories.
      Kosovo was not Serbia, and never be Serbia.

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #53 06, 16, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      It's funny about Chomsky on Kosova. He is a very educated man, no question about that, but many consider Kosova to be the one thing he got wrong. Funny enough, when he was asked that very question, he kind of backed away and he very rarely speaks about Kosova. When he does, he makes a great effort to keep the focus on America's hegemonic actions, without even touching on the historical context of Serb and Illyrian.

      Oh yes, someone asked about the proof that Albanians are modern descendants of the Illyrians. It's the majority world opinion [...]

      Read the full comment of linguists and anthropologists... but read the simple wikipedia description about Albania and review the history of the word "Albania" which should at least be food for thought for the doubters.

      Also, one has to ask oneself to consider how a tiny people would invent and maintain an entirely unique indo-european language in the middle of a sea of Greeks, Latins and Slavs, it just defies common sense to suggest that it dropped from the sky. In addition, many of the Gods of Greek Mythology as well as many place names from Ancient Greece cannot be explained using Ancient Greek (the etymology), but they have meaning in Albanian. So it remains a very interesting mystery as to how this could be so.

      Another clue is that Romanian has a couple of hundred non-latin words left in its language. The majority of them have Albanian cognates, which means that the ancient Dacian substrate still found in small traces in Romanian is related to the ancient Illyrian substrate still found in modern Albanian.

      Lots to think about.

    • Anonymous shemi Tue, Sep 08 2009

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      Anonymous TonyM Tue, Sep 08 2009

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      Anonymous TonyM Tue, Sep 08 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #49 00, 10, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      To Misha, My apologies for what I wrote. I misread who you were respondig to. It was Reggy not Peggy.
      It looked like Peggy so again, my apologies.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #48 00, 07, Tue, Sep 08 2009

      Tony you wrote this,



      "to pegleg

      practice what you preach in good behaviour, as for you being a girl, woooowno matter you got all this free time, you are so rude that nobody wants to touch you, not even with a fig leaf."

      Getting a bit bitchy now aren't we.

      It's always the case. When you have nothing intelligent to say, personal attacks will do.

      As far as me going to jail for denying killing you [...]

      Read the full comment are completely out of your mind. I have already stated that all three sides have killed and been killed.
      One thing I will NEVER admit is that what the west calls genocide happened because Srebrenica WAS NOT a genocide.

      I don't give a damn what the Hague says. Told you what I think of that kangaroo court.
      Keep lying but your lies are about to expire as the world has woken up to your crap and your imaginare "Racak" massacre.

      It is a Muslim practice to kill their own in order to make get sympathy. Ask General MacKenzie. He wrote all this down.

      Where the hell is your proof of anything you say. Oh, yes, good old Wiki. A really realiable source.

      Get a brain moron.








    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #47 17, 44, Mon, Sep 07 2009

      That's a fair point that those countries have moved on to greener pastures, however I don't believe it's because of outlawing the wrongs of the past. I think the majority of those countries have gotten over it now (60 years later), but Serbia's conflicts have been only a decade old. So hopefully time can heal the wounds. My cousin lived through the bombing and I understand when he has such ill feelings toward the West and Albanians etc. But I'm sure he'll eventually learn that not everyone is the same, not all Albanians hate Serbs, and not all Serbs hate [...]

      Read the full comment Albanians.

    • Anonymous
      Shipkilar Rating:
      neutral
      #46 17, 25, Mon, Sep 07 2009

      Well done Romania you are not easily bought by US whores. Kosovo is Serbia and always will be. Albanians back to Asia where you came from.

    • Anonymous TonyM Mon, Sep 07 2009

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      AnonymousPeggyMon, Sep 07 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      AnonymousmishaMon, Sep 07 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #42 05, 24, Mon, Sep 07 2009

      @ Sami;
      I have just a few qualms with your argument. Serbs didn't come from Russia - but they did from the north (Poland area) anyway your point is true that they migrated there. But once again I say, where is the proof of Albanians being Illyrian. Also you say 2/3 of the World's wealth? I may disagree with that, Russia, India, China, Brazil all have great wealth and support Serbia. But one thing I do agree with is that you're right, Serbs and Albanians should live together peacefully, unfortunately outside influences have probably ruined that forever - [...]

      Read the full comment I once again refer you to Noam Chomsky interview

    • AnonymousBatoMon, Sep 07 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #40 05, 01, Mon, Sep 07 2009

      Peggy, I made a typo in the first paragraph, I meant to say "I DO agree with your assessment" about Real Politik.

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #39 05, 00, Mon, Sep 07 2009

      Peggy, you are a reasonable individual, i don't agree with your assessment that Real Politik as it work on all sides. my reason for pointing out why the Spanish, Chinese and Romanians are against Kosova's independence was to quickly dispel this idea that those nations are concerned about some imaginary "injustice" (quote from earlier in the thread) committed against Serbia.

      i will point out, however, that i do think there is a difference between france, germany, italy, england and the u.s. backing independence and russia, china, and romania rejecting it. i do think there is more [...]

      Read the full comment substance and hope for the world in the ideals of America than in the clearly visionless authoritarian regimes of China & Russia.

      also, you are misleading about your 2/3 comment. in fact, Kosova is now recognized by 2/3 of the world's wealth and power. (i'm sure you will grin somewhat at this point, but it is a fact).

      i personally have no qualms with Serbia, its culture or people. they have just as much of a right to exist and be a productive and happy people as anyone else on the planet, but it is a fact that they came from Russia in about the 7th century AD and mixed with Illyrians who, at the time, inhabited the entire area from Epirus to the northern edge of the former Jugoslavia. so all of this talk about Serbia having some kind of ownership of this land is off the radar when once views the very rich and ancient history of these lands.

      Albanians have been in this land since the beginning of recorded history in the region. the reason they have been so discredited is purely as a result of the agenda of the Eastern Church and its great intolerance for religious diversity (which continues obviously to this day). even to be a Catholic is nearly impossible in Greece or Serbia, imagine being a Jew or a Muslim (even a Sufi Muslim, as most of the Albanians are).

      whereas in Albania, there is no religious conflict between the various groups, Jews, Catholics, Orthodox, and Muslims. in fact, while over 85% of Greek Jews were expelled from Greece in WWII, ALL of the Jews of Albania were saved (this is verified by Yad Vashem) and there were 3 times more Jews in Albania after WWII than before. from this evidence, you can understand why Albanians feel that they are surrounded by intolerant and unfriendly nations.

      as for the love of America, there are three reasons. 1) at the beginning of the 20th century, President Woodrow Wilson rejected the proposal put forth by Serbia and Greece to eliminate Albania, split her in half and share the spoils between them, fulfilling a long held dream of completing the assimilation of the Illyrians and joining their borders in a sort of modern crusade, 2) the coming again of America to the aid of the Albanians in Kosova at a time when 800,000 men, women and children were being expelled and the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia was about to take place in Kosova all over again, and probably with even greater ferocity given the historical animosities between the groups, and 3) Albanians have managed to maintain the language, culture and traditions of their ancestors through sheer force of will and the warrior culture, as a result, there is a natural kinship between the values of America's freedom and independence and the character of the Albanian people.

      you may or may not choose to take these words seriously, but i can assure you that nearly every all Albanians think this way, it is no fabrication, it is from the heart. and according to the old ways, when someone comes to your aid at a time of need, they become your brother and they will receive protection in return, now and in the future.

      so if your only goal is to profess some kind of amoral world and a free mason plan to subjugate the poor Serbians, my answer is, be careful with conspiracies, they are as much an attempt to achieve perfection in an imperfect world, as any other system.

      sometimes common sense is a better explanation, the Serbs took things so far beyond the absurd edge, that the improbable occurred, the West rediscovered the Illyrians and our identity and character is resurrected yet again... we should all celebrate, since it is the oldest persistent identity in Europe, the closes thing we have to the character of the indigenous natives of the European continent. yes, it's that simple.

      peace to my European brothers and sisters, we will all hopefully learn to live together again as friends and constructive neighbors.

    • Anonymous
      Patriota Rating:
      neutral
      #38 04, 33, Mon, Sep 07 2009

      Srbija do Tokija

    • Anonymous Reggy Mon, Sep 07 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #36 23, 00, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      Tricky, here's vali's statement again in case you have forgotten it,

      kosovo is albanian(illyrians) more then 5000 years,,so wat about serbian(shkiet)they are just rusish gypsi

      What evidence does this person present at all. It is not up to me to prove his point but up to him, so I think I will wait for him to back his statement up.

      I only asked for that and for him not to be insulting. Sorry Tricky, but you are not tricky enough to punch holes in something I wrote on [...]

      Read the full comment this occasion. Vali's stupidity speaks for itself.

    • Anonymous
      Tricky Rating:
      neutral
      #35 17, 05, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      Vali, do you have enough intelligence to argue your point of view without resorting to insults?
      What was I thinking. You don't have any arguement at all. You only have insults."

      Peggy can you provide any evidence or argument to demonstrate your inteligence to proove vali wrong?

    • Anonymous
      Tricky Rating:
      neutral
      #34 17, 00, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      "Tricky, why do you think they all show only Serb crimes.(?)
      'becouse Serb commited most of the crimes

      "Because BBC is western and they once again have their own interests."

      you have your foil hat on too?
      man has never landed on the moon.
      the vatican is against you,... on and on and on, simply pitiful

      90% of the footige is with the Serb leaders talking with their own mouth on record. no need to criticise the proof.
      it much [...]

      Read the full comment higher quality than the rest of the rubish mouthed here unprooved on your part.


      Does anyone ever show Croat/Bosnian/Albanian crimes? No! Why?

      Becouse the Serbs attacked as agressors Croats Bosnians and Albanians.

      In ww2 the London bombing was a crime, a crime against humanity.
      2 weeks later the Dresden bombing was a statistic, a greater statistic than Hiroshima.

      If Germany has moved on, so will you.

    • Anonymous
      cipslim Rating:
      neutral
      #33 14, 44, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      Kosovo in part of Serbia. Albanians should be given equal rights but Serbia can never give up Kosovo. Romania cannot fight against it's own people. The general feeling in Romania is that the Serbs are their only true ally. They say "Romania had 2 friends troughout Hystory- Serbia and the Black Sea"
      In regards to the irredentist agitator above Transylvania is inhabited 75% by Romanians, why would they fear desintegration?

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #32 13, 59, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      "kosovo is albanian(illyrians) more then 5000 years,,so wat about serbian(shkiet)they are just rusish gypsi "

      Vali, do you have enough intelligence to argue your point of view without resorting to insults?
      What was I thinking. You don't have any arguement at all. You only have insults.

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #31 12, 59, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      Tricky, why do you think they all show only Serb crimes. Because BBC is western and they once again have their own interests. Does anyone ever show Croat/Bosnian/Albanian crimes? No! Why? Because it doesn't serve their purpose. You think not one single Croat/Bosniak/Albanian committed a crime against Serbs? Shame on you, not for being against Serbs, but for being so ignorant

    • Anonymous
      Tricky Rating:
      neutral
      #30 07, 59, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      BBC "death of yugoslavia"
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6312864596613878002#



      how many criminal acts and outragious serbien lies can you count in this documentary?

    • Anonymous TonyM Sun, Sep 06 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

      Anonymous TonyM Sun, Sep 06 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

      Anonymous TonyM Sun, Sep 06 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #26 03, 20, Sun, Sep 06 2009

      Sami you have given us all the resons why Spain, Romania or whoever don't recognise Kosovo. Great. They have their own reasons why they don't and nothing to do with love to Serbia. I will accept that.

      BUT, the countries who have recognised Kosovo have done it for the same reasons as well. How about you tell us that one?
      Biggest reason "Camp Bondsteel" and the rest of them either American pressure or increadible sucking up to America. They certainly did not do it because of their love for Albnaians.

      [...]

      Read the full comment So then, what was your point in writing all that rubbish?
      Yes, we are not idiots. Countries don't have friends. They only have interests. Regardles of why countries have not recognised Kosovo the fact remains that they have not and will not.

      You don't have 2/3 of the world and that is a fact for whatever reason it is.

    • Anonymous
      vali Rating:
      neutral
      #25 20, 56, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      kosovo is albanian(illyrians) more then 5000 years,,so wat about serbian(shkiet)they are just rusish gypsi

    • Anonymous
      Bato Rating:
      neutral
      #24 18, 06, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      Sonija
      You say that Greece, Spain etc have own interests by not recognising Kosovo. But there's a flipside to that coin. All the countries that have recognised Kosovo are furthering their own interests, better relations with the US/West, aid. A lot have been pressured by US as well. Why would Poland allow US missile bases in it's own country, to protect against the threat of Iran? Not bloody likely. Kiss US ass to further their own aspirations

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #23 17, 12, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      But just as an amusing side note, the Romanian president carries the name of the Roman Emperor Trajan, that destroyed the native Dacian culture that once thrived in these lands. The events are today described as ethnic and cultural genocide - that event brought about the end of the proud native warrior culture (shared with Albanians) and the beginning of a new culture of obedience, and prostration to colonial powers. The Romanians lost their ancient language and a new psychology of capitulation and worship of colonialist culture emerged. To this day, Romanians are more proud of French-inspired architecture in Bucharest, [...]

      Read the full comment than their own ancient roots that far predate Rome, or even Greece. Dacia Liberat!

    • Anonymous
      Sami Bushati Rating:
      neutral
      #22 17, 05, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      The Romanian position is not given much credibility in serious circles in London, Paris, Rome, Berlin or Washington D.C. They have chosen to support the Serbian position in principle, because they have a deep fear of losing Transylvania where a huge and restive Hungarian minority resides. In other words, they are fearful that eventually the Hungarian minority will request an independent Transylvania or a re-unification with Hungary, so they are compelled to oppose the independence of Kosovo.

      Romanians are mostly Dacians. Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians are the same people. The Romanians cannot be taken seriously as [...]

      Read the full comment supporters of Slavic hegemony over old Illyrian, Thracian and Dacian kingdoms.

      Spain opposes Kosovan independence because it fears losing Basque lands, Catalan lands, Asturian & Gajego lands, and more. It is purely self interest, nothing to do with a sense of kinship with Serbs, with Milosevic, or anything religious, it's purely a fear of losing their own territorial integrity.

      Get it straight my Serbian friends: Albanian-Illyrians are not going anywhere, and we understand your plans, your propaganda, your history and your tendencies, like no one else.

      Grow up. Learn to respect and live with your neighbors, a very ancient and worthy people.

    • Anonymous
      adamsrb Rating:
      neutral
      #21 09, 28, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      The Siptari know whats coming their way.. Kosovo being handed back to Serbia:)
      Uffff sta ce onda bit?? Znam da razumete siptari zato sto ste ucili jezik sveta:) Opet ce te nam cistit cipele!

    • Anonymous
      sigh Rating:
      neutral
      #20 08, 32, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      @Michael

      pretty dissapointing to read your comment, seems denial is alive and well.

      Granted, serbs in kosovo are no longer enjoying being at the top of the apartheid food chain instituted by serbias as they began the failed attempted to create out of Yugoslavia a defacto serbia. (yes kosovo is seventh... count them. Seventh country to be created out of yugoslavia Including serbia itself thanks to serb nationalist failure in the former yugoslavia) But that is hardly a claim that Human rights in Kosovo for Serbs are non-existent... unless you beleive that [...]

      Read the full comment forcing serbs to accept equality is a violation of there human rights. One would have thought serbs have distanced themselves from nationalists delusions by now.

      the Fact is, Serbs in Kosovo have been given EVERYTHING that was taken away from Albanians Under Serbs and Milosovics dictatorship. Everything and more cherry picked and handed to them in a gift basket. This is the sad position kosovo serbs find themselves in, Serbs in Kosovo cannot claim any lost rights or representation because of albanians. Today's Republic of kosovo Gives them federal rights and representation in the country for the first time since milosovic. So what "voice" do you imagine kosovo serbs dont have? a right to have a madmen to enforce apartheid by despicable means...whom they can simultaneously pretend they dont approve of his methods?

      Ahhhh... perhaps you are not speaking of kosovo serbs at all. but of the republic of serbia itself?
      sorry, Serbia is not kosovo, no matter how many times you repeat the mantra.

      It does take 2 sides to live in peace, but if serbs of kosovo continue to be pressured by nationalists imports from serbia, to urge them to huddle into enclaves in order to segregate themselves, to cling to the hopes that they can somehow return to the days where they can dictate to the majority ... to not live in equality with their neighbors... to somehow make real the nationalist nonesense they were first brainwashed with. Thats up to serbs.

      serbs in kosovo will never be able to take any steps forward at until they themselves break that self imposed misery. Standing still or trying to go backwards will never work.

    • Anonymous
      Slandering.! Rating:
      neutral
      #19 07, 55, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      Who said the Romanian president is a Dictator? That's just outrageous, unsubstantiated and slanderous! Sounds like the type of un-backed fantasy-nonsense that CNN propaganda-house was pumping little minds throughout the 90's.

    • Anonymous
      Micheal Rating:
      neutral
      #18 06, 28, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      Human rights in Kosovo for Serbs are non-existent. Kosovo represents the best example of international crisis in the international community being able to solve a conflict. Organizations such as the UN might as well throw in the towel because they are useless in protecting justice and human lives. How can Martti Artissari get a nobel prize when Kosovo is as far from a place of peace. It takes to parties to make peace. There is no Serbian voice. The whole world is ignorant to the fact of the presence of Europe's largest American base in Kosovo, and at the fact [...]

      Read the full comment that under Milosevic's gvnt. Kosovo albanians had the right to their own schools and language. Kosovo was 50% albanian and Serbian. today there are only ghettos of Serbian populations. Protected by International Soldiers and barbed wire. A first step to peace will be to bring back the 250 000 non-albanian refuges from Kosovo, and to recognise and rebuild Historical Serbian monuments and Churches that are central to Serbia's history and culture. Allow Serbs to move back to their ancestral homes and allow them to Speak their languages and have their own schools! And if anyone is not sure about the Kosovo situation plase come and see Kosovo for yourself.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #17 05, 55, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      hang in there serbia! your longtime pal Mahmoud Ahmadinejad here and i understand, we have "those" kinds of people in iran too.. freedom this, human rights that. phooie. (when you get them back, invest in motorcycles... it works!)


      good luck,
      Mahmoudy


      XOXO
      best friends forever!

    • Anonymousgood luck with that.Sat, Sep 05 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained реклама & спам

    • Anonymous
      Art Rating:
      neutral
      #15 05, 40, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      If it wasn't for its internal configuration, Romania would back stab Serbia in a heartbeat. Cheap Romania probably will someday.

    • Anonymous
      adamsrb Rating:
      neutral
      #14 05, 38, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      Many thanks also to Libya, Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Cuba, Sudan, China, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia. You are truly democratic friends of Serbia.

    • Anonymous
      Peggy Rating:
      neutral
      #13 05, 31, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      Fatih wrote,

      thank you all the democratic countries that supports Kosovo's independence.slovakia romania shows that they never deserved e.u.

      Are you trying to say that countries like Spain, Greece, Slovakia, Romania and the rest of 2/3 of the world are not democratic because they don't recognize Kosovo?

      Do tell us oh wise one, why don't Slovaki and Romania deserve to be in the EU.

    • Anonymous
      Valeri Rating:
      neutral
      #12 01, 51, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      Sonijia,

      you are right, but I see that as a very legitimate grounds for objection.
      Can you imagine the nightmare of countless regions around Eurasia following Kosovo's examples? Imagine the tragedies the wars and the dispossession. I think that the Romanian is being farsighted, albeit obviously looking for the welfare of his own country.
      A President interested in holding his country together, is just someone doing his job, and hardly qualifies him for the term "dictator".

      The irony of course is that Turkey, an enthusiastic supporter of Kosovo,(on [...]

      Read the full comment Islamic grounds) has much to lose by the establishment of such a precedent, of unilateral separation and international recognition of regions, considering her Kurdish minority's aspirations, and Russia, with the biggest reason to fear the precedent, having countless regions itching to separate, is pushing for recognition of Ossetia, on the grounds of political necessity.
      Both shortsighted.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #11 00, 05, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      @ Eric and Tony, you guys don't lick Sonja's ass just because she's a girl. I can see through you like through the tin glass.
      And you Eric you said
      "...look deeper and see why he made it. Its not because he loves Serbia so much rather than his own self interest in doing so."
      And I say:
      "...look deeper and see why some countries aproved the illegal indenpendance. Its not because they love Kosovo so much rather than they own self interest in doing so." As well as licking US ass [...]

      Read the full comment

    • Anonymous
      Vladimir Rating:
      neutral
      #10 00, 00, Sat, Sep 05 2009

      @ Sonja, It would be hard to judge but I think you don't know the history of the conflict, who killed entire population?Firstly albanians attacked Serbs and when Serbs responded they cried for NATO to help. There are 200,000 refugies from kososvo in Serbia who can not return. more than 100 churches destroyed by peaceful Albanians who beat anyone on the street who says something in Serbian. It is illegal to take anyone's territory and when they did so Serbia had democratic governament in place. I wonder how come East Germany does not belong to Russia who has given 2000000 [...]

      Read the full comment lives in WWII. Kosovo is Serbia and it will be forever and you all can dream.Thank you all of the countries who see this injustice.

    • Anonymous
      toni Rating:
      neutral
      #9 23, 17, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      Good point Sonija, no need to add much more.

    • Anonymous
      Eric Rating:
      neutral
      #8 21, 28, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      "...look deeper and see why he made it. Its not because he loves Serbia so much rather than his own self interest in doing so."

      Sonija -
      Welcome to international politics!

    • Anonymous
      Sonija Gretier Rating:
      neutral
      #7 17, 40, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      Romanian president statement is that of a dictator:

      "Territorial partitions are unacceptable, regardless of what explanations put forward to support them," said Basescu, head of state of one of the European Union countries that refuses to endorse Kosovo as independent.

      Saying that "Territorial partitions are unacceptable, regardless of what explanations put forward to support them,"
      Basically says a dictator can kill your entire ethnic group and have no consequence for his behavior because afterall Territoral partition can not be attained regardless.

      His tone sounds like that [...]

      Read the full comment of a madman but in reality its Transylvania with its Hungarian majority population in Romania that he is trying to prevent from trying a Kosovo type partition.
      If it wasn't for his own interests he would have already recognized kosovo.

      Same self interests has lead Spain , Greece, Russia, China and Cyprus to not recognize Kosovo.

      So when you read a statement that sounds like it belongs in the 15th century, look deeper and see why he made it. Its not because he loves Serbia so much rather than his own self interest in doing so.

    • Anonymous
      nebojsa Rating:
      neutral
      #6 16, 50, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      Kosovo is Serbia........

    • Anonymous
      B M Rating:
      neutral
      #5 16, 48, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      As humans we must not forbid the freedom of speach , freedom of movement and freedom to live. Such freedoms were granted to the people who live on the land of the Autonamous region of Kosovo and Metohija by the supervision of the Serbian government. The same freedoms have been taken away by minority groups belonging to the Serbs , Romas , Bosnjaks and many others under the temporary supervision of the Albanian government run from Pristina. There must be a change to this, there must be no continuation, which will prevail thanks to the help and open minds by [...]

      Read the full comment the governments of Russia, Romania, Spain, Greece and Cyprus of the EU and the support of the over 125 nations Worldwide. I also wish to state, that there are many more people in western societies, Islamic nations whose governments support such cause but as individuals do not. Without all these factors we would not be were we are today. We are all humans born in different forms, we must and can live one next to another regardless our religious beliefs, because only then the power of humanity will be relised. For the love of all humans...!!!

    • Anonymous
      kaqaniku Rating:
      neutral
      #4 16, 19, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      cheap Romania

    • Anonymous
      fatih koparan Rating:
      neutral
      #3 16, 03, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      thank you all the democratic countries that supports Kosovo's independence.slovakia romania shows that they never deserved e.u.

    • Anonymous
      adamsrb Rating:
      neutral
      #2 15, 29, Fri, Sep 04 2009

      Thank you Romania, Russia, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Slovakia and all the countries that are against this injustice!

    • Anonymous shemi Fri, Sep 04 2009

      This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

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