Lita, Valeri and Epaminondas a.k.a. Koinos Nous, a.k.a. George II and David (one person) do gang up on people all the time.
They change the subject in order to confuse. They rarely comment on the subject but always go in different directions, especially Epaminondas and Kinos Nous personalities.
They start to speak in different languages in order to appear clever and all knowing as if knowing another language makes you an expert on the topic being discussed.

I have had many unpleasant encounters with them. All the time diverting from the topic [...]

Read the full comment until we are off in a totally different direction.
Reason, cannot debate with facts so diversions are always necessary.

Please do read the articles here and you will see that Epaminondas and Koino Nous (same person) constantly comment on everything but never really about the subject. Always going off in different directions and alwasy using a few words borrowed from google translate in order to appear smart.

Take the journey. Look up any comment and you will see what I mean.

Epaminondas = Turk

Wed, Dec 16 2009 20:03 CET

"Epaminonda u can stop pretending to be Greek, you are most definetly not. A Turk all the way."
======================

Whoever this Epaminondas guy is he definately hates Serbs and Greeks.
Every post of his is about belittling anyone who supports either.

He goes by many names, Koinos Nous, George II, Epaminondas and some others. He hopes that all these other personalities he has conjured up will fool us into thinking that [...]

Read the full comment he has supporters.
One man does not need to post under so many names unless he needs to look like others support him.

A pathetic little man he is. That's all.

He has been gunning for me at every opportunity. Trying to make me look foolish. I guess he has to do that in order to appear smart but we all know that if you have to do this in order to look smart, you are not.

Epaminonda u can stop pretending to be Greek, you are most definetly not. A Turk all the way.

Turkey isn't respecting the rule of law simple. And that's one more reason why Turkey is not EU or Western country. If Turkey is sure of its claims they can go to the international court of law but they don't. In fact they proclaim war if Greece fulfills its lawful right of increasing to 12nm.
While it enters even Cyclades like when there was French-Greek exercise on 15/12/2009. Risking war since the exercise was with live [...]

Read the full comment rounds. What a righteous country!!
What I think Greece should do is enter the Turkish airspace with military aircraft, as Turkey does for Greek airspace or shoot some of them down.Lets see if they like one of those solutions.

Greek Air Force is right, but it would be genuinely useful if somebody spelled out EXACTLY what the international laws are on land, air, and sea borders. This would help Greece and Turkey achieve a common understanding of what these laws actually are.

Of course, sea borders and airspace borders are not the same. That's the case for all the countries according to the international laws...

The Antisemitism in our papers is embarrassing. I am just glad that most Greek language papers are not readily available to the English reading internet.

Look at what ND is stating - that there is an air border that is different to the sea border - that is ridiculous!

Dear Valeri, I have tried to share my opinion but you have turned that conversation into totally different direction. I would suggest you, to apply that dose of self criticism you claim you have and admit that you do not wish to hear any opinion different than one you already have, at least not on the topic, I was interested in. So, what`s the point then? Maybe I will have pleasure to discuss with you at some other forum, on some other topic which will not provoke such a behaviour you have now demonstrated.


[...]

Read the full comment

Great idea Lita!
Well, now that we've exhausted the topic of your writing style, perhaps you'd treat us to any opinions you may have, that don't necessarily concern individuals, something general about life politics, the neighborhood.

Epaminindas, thank you for explaining purpose of World Wide Web. I respect your intention to educate me (and I seriously mean this), but that lesson I don`t think I need since I use World Wide Web very successfully for quite a long time now. Suggestion regarding way of expressing myself on this particular web site, as you may notice, I have adopted since I don`t have intention to irritate you with my writing style (although that`s not sms txts as you say, and you can verify that easily). Regarding example that you recommended us to follow, I prefer not to [...]

Read the full comment do it since that would mean I should start to use rude words at public space.
As I have previously mentioned, at the very beginning of this conversation, I do not think this is a place to discuss someone's writing style. Even though you labelled me as "girly", since you, mature people don't know when it is enough, I will have to be the one to end up this ridiculous conversation.

Well, if the colour of the shirt is black, then yes, you can expect comments.

Otherwise, girls, the world-wide-web is supposed to broaden education standards and personal horizons. Neither of you - Peggy or Lita - seem to be particularly prepared for this.

This is not a "girly" site full of txts and unfounded innuendos, but an attempt at a "meeting of minds" internationally. Valeri has set you a very good example here. Please try to follow it.

Peggy, what can I tell you,

"How would you like it if Albanians started to jump the border of Bulgaria and start to breed out your local population in a certain region?"

Peggy, I wouldn't really like that, but the difference is that I would never think that the solution is to round them up and kick them out. Our Communists did that with the Turks in the 80's, and even-though it was at a time with no free press and most Bulgarians heard about it from gossip and certainly didn't elect [...]

Read the full comment or support the people that did it, it still stains us to a degree.

I think this is the core difference between the majority Serbs, (trust me, I've heard many say exactly the same thing, as if you guys call each other to coordinate sentences) and us in BG. This is also probably the reason we didn't have a civil war Yugo style. The solution is to co-opt them into the larger society, or let them go if the majority in the area wishes to.

No amount of land is worth the destruction of my country, or anything of the other humiliations Serbia is going through. I am embarrassed for a Bulgarian caught in a prostitution ring, what's left if one of us is paraded around Europe for killing thousands of civilians in the name of the nation, nevertheless... that would be a terrible legacy to live with, and I can't imagine anything worse, including losing half of the country.

Which brings me to another point:

To all of my fellow Bulgarians, especially the ones who have grown to dislike and even hate their country through those difficult transition years - if you think that we have a mentality problem, something that I certainly agree with, folks like Peggy should make us feel better about who we are and how we've progressed as a nation. Sure there are all kinds of people in every culture, but honestly I am yet to meet a worldly enough Bulgarian to write such good English, and offer such antiquated views, like stealing of territory and so on.

As far as the Americans:

Peggy, oddly enough I see similarities between them and you guys, albeit in a much smaller scale in Serbia. Don't get me wrong, the Americans know how to co-opt different cultures, much better than most, but they also have something they like to call "American exceptionalism" which comes from them believing their own mythology of moral righteousness, and pass military glory.

Every country teaches their schools children about the "great" things their forefathers have done, but the key is to be critical as you get older. We in Bulgaria woke up one day in '89 to find out that everything we knew was false. That was a major trauma, and we are still a bit lost. The upside of it is that we learnt not to trust everything we think, question our leaders and change our governments practically every election.

Trust me, there are no anti-Serbs here....

Dear Peggy,

Way of writing that I have used here is something they have picked up since they could not find some other arguments related to this discussion....and this is, I would say, real childish behaviour.

If this is live forum, most probably at the end they would discuss colour of someone shirt.

I have noticed that Valeri and Epamin have started ganging up on Lita and picking her post apart because she is not anti Serb like them.

C'mon guy, you know you are very biased and anti Serb. It shows in all your posts.

If anyone dares to contradict you, you start disecting their post and making them feel like they are immature and not worthy of posting here.

Wow guys, you are self proclaimed professors of history and noboby, but nobody can equal you genious.

[...]

Read the full comment /> Such arrogance is not a nice thing at all.
Debate with facts and not attacks on the way people express themselves. Not everyone is as educated and clever as you.

Valeri you wrote,

Serbia needs to move on, Kosovo is lost, not due to American bombing, but due to Albanian breeding and Serbian lack there of. Demographics are a bitch. If we all don't start having more babies, who knows who will own our countries in 100 years.

I seriously doubt that you can advise Serbia on what to do.
Unless you walk a mile in someone's shoes you cannot presume to speak for them or tell them how they should feel or what they should do.

[...]

Read the full comment /> How would you like it if Albanians started to jump the border of Bulgaria and start to breed out your local population in a certain region? Then they decided that since they are the majority they will cause chaos in your country, thus provoking a bloody conflict for which they will use as an excuse to take away your territory.
This is exactly what happened in Kosovo. Do you even know the history of Albanian terror which has been going for decades?
Have you seen that documentary by a Checz team called "Stolen Kosovo"?
This is not Serbian propaganda but an honest look at the last few decades in that region and who was terrorizing who for that long.
The fact that Albanians bought a few American senators and offered America virtual ownership of Kosovo has everything to do with how that conflict was seen in the west. You know how it goes. You win the propaganda war and you have won the actual war.

Nothing is as it is portrayed by the west. Do you even realize how much destruction was left each time America decided to pursue their agenda in a foreign country?

America has been at war somehwere non stop since WW2. Why? Each time they saturate the media with their propaganda of how they are fighting a just war and the orhter guy is the evil one.

Just remember, nothing is black and white. There are many shades of grey.

Lita - the rule on international sites such as this seems to be informal politeness, without the use of abbreviations that not everybody will understand. (Rude or offensive language gets picked up by the Moderators, anyway, and on this site they're fairly vigilant)

I know that different rules apply if you are "txting" on a mobile phone, or on non-international websites where abbreviations like IIRC, IMHO, OMG, TTFN, and so on are common, but they would not be understood by everyone here, so we don't use them. And can I make a plea about LOL - [...]

Read the full comment in some parts of the world (Ireland, Scotland, Canada, parts of USA) this is deeply offensive to Catholics as it stands for "Loyal Orange Lodge" (a fiercely anti-Catholic organisation) and not "Laughing Out Loud". So this one is best avoided.

Hope this is helpful - it's meant to be.

Epaminondas, dank u voor uw antwoord. I have noticed words like “screw up” and “bitch” on this forum so I thought that this is informal conversation/exchange of views where content is more important than form.

Sorry, Lita, I think Valeri is entirely right.

Mobile phone "txting" is one thing, and civilised exchange of views (using full English, or Bulgarian, or French, or whatever) on a properly-run website (as this is) is quite another.

If you insist on using "U" for you, ik zal antwoorden in nederlandische taal. ("U" is only correct for "you" in Dutch, and possibly Flemish, though local usage in Belgium can differ.)

(Tranlation for Valeri and others - "I shall answer using the Netherlands language")

Anyone [...]

Read the full comment posting about 'ABN' - 'algemene beschaft nederlands' or 'generally recognised netherlands language' - which is supposed in theory to unite Holland and Flanders, might seek to reflect further. If the Hollanders and Flemings were both not naturally peaceful people, a Balkan-style war would have broken out long before now. (Think, ponder, and reflect, o ye Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians, Bulgarians, and Turks.)

Valerie:

"I don't know how old are you, but this is a teenage SMS style writing and difficult to read"

My style of writing is ttl irrelevant (for this conversation)

"If you like to have a conversation, try to do it in a adult way, minus the shorthand and without grasping on technicalities, who said exactly what"

I dont think that using specific style of writing and reading carefully someone posts (because this is what i did with ur posts-i read them carefully and [...]

Read the full comment found some contradictions) is non-adult way of communication. Who said exactly what is not technicality...this is forum, we don`t know each other and we exchange posts so how it can not b important who said exactly what.


regarding remaining part of ur post, i do not wish to make any comments since that would b, as u said, dealing with tehnicalities who said what.

Lita:

"if u r critical than u have to admit that serbia was not ur highest wall to Europe."

I don't know how old are you, but this is a teenage SMS style writing and difficult to read. If you like to have a conversation, try to do it in a adult way, minus the shorthand and without grasping on technicalities, who said exactly what.

You get the idea. The war in Yugoslavia was very detrimental for all of us, but since I am Bulgarian, I am too [...]

Read the full comment familiar with how it affected us. It affected us badly, and probably worsened our mafia problem, because it gave the criminal element opportunity to profit. Had it happen now, it would've been less devastating, because we are already part of the EU structures. It happened at a very delicate junction, when we were about to go through a huge transition. The timing was terrible.

Sure, there were many walls to Europe, not least that of the average Bulgarian's mentality - we are still dealing with that one too, and I have no idea which is "the highest" and how to measure it. That BG state of mind is a product of 50 years of isolation, yet your wars (and they were Serb wars) extended our isolation, at a time when we could least afford it.

All those are the facts and the past. I know many Serbs, and I like them very much. What worries me about the future is that practically all of them, have lost their objectivity, and think just like Peggy - they find themselves in the world of friends and enemies.

Any honest critique is automatically an attack.

In addition, all of the negative experience they had, has created their own mental wall against the West for decades to come. As a result, Serbia is gravitating towards Russia and that can't be good in a long run for any of us.

Serbia needs to move on, Kosovo is lost, not due to American bombing, but due to Albanian breeding and Serbian lack there of. Demographics are a bitch. If we all don't start having more babies, who knows who will own our countries in 100 years.

Then again, this is how we, Slavs, took over the land - with numbers. This may very well be how we lose it.

Valerie...I am not the one bringing up serbia..u r the one doing that, and as i said before, my intention was to find out why. im curious..have u been lately to serbia? have u met someone from serbia, talked with those ppl?
let me comment just some parts of ur post:
"It's everyone's fault, but the only thing all those wars have in common is you guys" ... maybe also for Iraq war?
"The only real difference between us is that we, Bulgarians, are collectively, overly critical of our country.." if u r critical [...]

Read the full comment than u have to admit that serbia was not ur highest wall to Europe.

"..I have to wonder if you guys wouldn't have brought the war to us, had they not checked your downwards spiral"- my dear Valerie, i don`t wish for anyone ever to experience such "downwards spiral checking"

Charlie, Lita,
the world isn't divided between pro and anti Serbs, or Muslims or all other kinds of "enemies", like Peggy likes to say.
Serbia is part of Europe and I can't wait to see her progress and become part of the EU.
I am in the import-export world and I have to say, for Bulgaria's sake, the border between Serbia and us, as well as Serbia and Hungary will have to come down.
Nothing will be better until that happens.
But for that, you guys need to start thinking [...]

Read the full comment differently.

sorry, epaminondas but, as u said lady posted that comment @ some other forum/discussion and @ this forum, as it is obvious, she didint mentioned serbia @ all but that didn’t stopped other lady to raise issue of serbia again and again..

Go Epaminondas!!!

I love it when muslims pick ancient greek names for chat/forum play!!

Sorry, Lita, you're wrong about Peggy never mentioning Serbia. Here's an example of her immortal prose from elsewhere on this site (25 Aug), all about - wait for it - Serbia !!

<<Serbia, no point in talking to the Albanians and Croats on this site.
They know wht they did too but will not acknowledge it.

They know their own is guilty of horrible crimes against the Serbs but as far as they are concerned they don't care. All they care about is trashing Serbs.
The world is [...]

Read the full comment waking up and seeing the truth slowly but they will continue to peddle their version of events till the day they die.

The truth doesn't serve them well, so they have to turn everything around and keep saying that only the Serbs killed and therefore every Serb got what they deserved.

Give up on Serbian enemies. They will always remain that but all you will get is a headache from banging your head against a brick wall. (signed: Peggy) >>

Lita:

"Valerie, I have scrolled down and looked into all coments peggy made and i dont c that she has even mentioned word serbia/serbs so..."

Yeah, because she's too busy attacking every one the Serbs were at war with lately. She's even digging up a Muslim SS division, from the stone age, for COL..

Lita, now that you keep bringing up Serbia, I have nothing against Serbs - that would mean that I have something against Bulgarians, because frankly there isn't that much difference. The only real difference [...]

Read the full comment between us is that we, Bulgarians, are collectively, overly critical of our country, and you, Serbs, see no fault with anything with yours - that is called nationalism.

I am yet to read in one of those forums, one of you say: Yes we screwed up!

Screw up you did Lita. Serbia was light years ahead of BG in every aspect in 1989 - they could've been our bridge to Europe. Instead, Serbia turned into our wall to Europe for the next, very crucial 10 years - no trade, no communication, the only thing we saw was rise of our mafia, as they got rich from violating the embargo against Serbia.

As Serbia was effectively out, our only road to the EU lead through Romania, and that consisted of a VERY tiny bridge over the Danube, although the river itself was out for trade because of the wars. This is what your nationalism did to us, and as much as I hated the Americans bombing the crap out of you, if I am honest with myself, I have to wonder if you guys wouldn't have brought the war to us, had they not checked your downwards spiral.

All because of land greed and desire to rule over people who didn't want you to rule over them. No negativity, just facts. I don't care who did who - I am Bulgarian. We have too many issues of our own to try to unscramble the scrambled eggs of past offenses in your neighborhood there. All I know is that your nationalism was detrimental to us.

And let me reiterate:
It's everyone's fault, but the only thing all those wars have in common is you guys. You may wanna stop and think about it some time - not holding my breath...

Valerie, I have scrolled down and looked into all coments peggy made and i dont c that she has even mentioned word serbia/serbs so...it was ur call. if u read my post carefully, u may c that im not saying anything pro/contra serbia (there is absolutely no need to post facts/data etc that nowdays anyone can easily find on www) but im trying to understand ur attitude and from where this negativity twd serbia is coming from.

No Lita,
our resident Serb from Australia, "Peggy" here keeps bringing up Serbial's innocence and greatenes (oh and you now), otherwise I've moved on to religion and the US.

@ Epaminondas,
Yes, I’ve said that nobody posted single word about Serbian but in that contest that I don’t c reason why Valerie has mentioned them in this forum. Yes, u have corrected that and u have posted many, many words, but i would suggest, if ur intention is to deal with facts, to google bit more next time, unless, of course, u have chosen to c only one side of truth.
Im reading The Echo and other regional news purely to update myself what’s up in region and I don’t have any intention to engage [...]

Read the full comment myself into any kind of debate, but reading some posts i became very curious to find out from where this hostility twd Serbia is coming from...i think i know now.
By the way...Kalashnikov is Russian but, hey...why u should be worried with facts

Lita - you say nobody has posted a single words about the Serbs ? Let me remedy this deficiency....

Serbia in the Karadzic / Milosevic years of the 1990s was a 'pariah state' that managed to antagonise all its former Jugoslav neighbours and commit an interesting variety of war crimes before NATO finally bombed it into reluctant submission.

For example (leaving obvious war-crimes like Srebrenica aside) :

- 'strafing' (low level air machine-gunning) Zagreb main food market in 1992, killing a fair number of Croatian housewives, a couple [...]

Read the full comment of Slovenian visitors, but no military personnel at all

- Vukovar. Need I say more ? (I have been there, and it is worse than you think)

- Ilok (not many people know about this one ! Many Croat civilians were killed.)

- a Serbian repression of MonteNegro/ Crna Gora was only narrowly avoided in 1999/2000 before its independence; much bloodshed was narrowly avoided.

Serbia - yes, great place for a holiday. Just don't forget your Kalashnikov, and its ammunition.

@ Valerie

Im amazed with you, really...again u r criticizing Serbia and Serbs even though noone, but noone posted a single word about them !!!! For someone beeing so dedicated to unity, peace, integration etc. this is quite a big amount of hostility twd one nation...

I see.
I don't know Epami, then there's that thing about Socialism and poverty that the West avoided.
You know, speaking of religion: I am convinced that the zealous separation of Church and State is the single biggest factor behind the US being so religious.
Note that most European countries with a State Religion, are much less religious. Take BG - our priests are basically working for the government, (like the teachers) so they adopt the mentality of a government employee - zero interest in their performance!

The few times [...]

Read the full comment I've been to church, I never felt that the priests gave a hoot one way or another that I am there. In the US they are like used car salesmen - you'll never stop hearing from them, once they get your info...
It makes sense - separation really means, - no support, but no taxation and no regulation, which would be the ideal business model, when you think of it.
Then the only issue is the fast and furious soul collection - hey I can get rich like that!
Hmmm....

Valeri - no, it's the right link, but ignore it all until you come to the very end of the text, when it says that US Justice has no Quality of Mercy as the US is a Secular State.

If they'd made that a bit clearer back in 1945, a lot of us here in Europe-land would have been happier with the Russians !

Epami,
now that I got to a computer and searched again - are you sure you posted the right link?
Most of it seemed some Scotland boycott junk.
I certainly couldn't care less if the Americans and the Scots decide to copulate in public and then joyfully jump in the North Sea from a high cliff;)

Epami,
not sure I have an opinion on that one.
The US is very different place from BG. We have many problems, and perhaps the secular nature of our culture is somewhat related to some of the so socio-demographic problems, but it is a much freer society than that of the US and I wouldn't exchange that.
The morality based mentality, even of not particularly religeous Americans, is foreign to me. I am more logic and self-interest driven and enjoy, and am quite proud of the occasional public nudity and sexuality in BG.
[...]

Read the full comment />

Valeri - not for the first time, I entirely agree with you about injecting history (especially Balkan history) into current politics, and why this is Not A Good Idea !

Meanwhile, here's a very recent and distinctly uncompromising internet item from the US side, which appears to state (at the very end of the item) that a godless society is better than a Christian one (the bit about the US being a Secular State !) Interesting in your views. URL follows (and this time I'll try not to forget to post it).

[...]

Read the full comment http://www.boycottscotland.com/

Epami,
the larger point is that Peggy illustrates the problem we have in the Balkans. The idea that history has a part of current policies is the problem.
Just because the Germans recruited bunch of Albanians (most of whom long dead by now) 70 years a go, gets injected into the right/wrong issues of the day.
Peggy labeled me anti-Serb because I refuse to engage this Balkan sport.
Peggy, I don't need people's writings, which are essentially opinions, to understand that what the Serbs did in the Balkans was detrimental to us [...]

Read the full comment all.
If you think that I harbor any bias in favor of the other players, then paste a quote from me.
I am revolted by the whole Yugoslav mentality of nationalism and land greed, because it's very very outdated in the Europe we are all trying to build, and is holding the region back.
Serbs, Croats, so called Macedonians, - what is the difference?
All they talk about is whose grandfather killed whose... the only thing different about the Serbs, is that they were in charge of the whole cabal for 80 years, so one has to assume that they were responsible, to a degree, for cultivating the mentality, by example, perhaps.

The Serbs should get on with the business of helping incorporate the region into Europe, because that's the only salavation they'll ever find FROM THEMSELVES, just like it's the only thing that has a chance of saving my country, Bulgaria, from the unfortunate herritage we are dealing with.

With respect, Peggy, you seem to be getting a bit hysterical. As I posted on this same thread only yesterday, there were only two out of fifteen "foreign" Waffen SS Divisions who had any Moslem membership - the 13th from Bosnia, and the 21st "Skanderbeg" from Albania. And both these Divisions also included Christians - probably at least 50% of their membership.

In turn, all 30 German and 15 "foreign" Waffen SS Divisions only comprised some 10% of German military resources at best, and the regular Army (the OKW) never fully trusted them to carry out [...]

Read the full comment military tasks in a professional way, probably wisely.

So, to claim as you do that "Muslims had a fairly large part in supporting the Nazis", when in fact only two out of forty-five Waffen SS Divisions had any Moslem component, and these 45 Divisions were only 10% of Nazi Germany's armed resources, is simply silly.

If I get out my calculator, the Moslem component comes out as 1/250th of total Nazi armed resources, or 0.4 %.

I do not therefore find that this figure justifes your conclusion that "Muslims had a fairly large part in supporting the Nazis", given that the only evidence you quote is based on only two Waffen SS Divisions with a Moslem component.

I think most numerate schoolchildren could come up with the same conclusion.....

I feel sorry for Greece. Surrounded by Israel, Turkey and America pulling the strings. To Greece, it is obvious what Turkey is trying to do and IMO it will get worse. The Americans with the Turks will slowly take apart Greece. My advice is shoot down Turkish planes now before you become a total victim.

Dozbe worte,

"Peggy. Pls dont post drivel."

Perhaps it is you who is very ignorant on the subject. Bosnian Muslims and Albanians were with the Nazis during WW2. Any child can get information on this.

Why don't you google Albanians SS division scanderberg and then look at how many Bosnian Muslims were part of Nazi make up as well. The Muslims had a fairly large part in supporting the Nazis and yet you have no knowlwedge of that.

What exactly do you know besides [...]

Read the full comment how to post crap?

Aries, It is a good French expression, but I suppose it suits Greeks better.

kavacik
The Dodecanese was given to Greece as by the Italians as a war indemnity after WWII.
Italy, Germany, Japan, Bulgaria
Greece Serbia USSR USA The British
Empire Frsnce(of course not Vichy)
were the beligrant. right or wrong they had the Balls to get involved in the holocaust of WWii

Turkey stayed neutral to collect as usuual from both sides(turkish tactics)
On ne parle pas de corde dans la maison d'un pendu. Ne parie pas tes couilles mon vieux.
Who knows a [...]

Read the full comment time may come
when a trigger happy general may shoot you off to hell!!
Until then Enjoy your Comfortable
living
Cheers!!!
PS.
if you have any problem with French
let me know.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained Кариери квалификации

Thanks god my education has giving me a good comfortable life.I can only say to you Greeks grow up and don't forget those islands were relinquished to Greece by Italians. If Greeks think that Turkish airplanes constantly violates their territorial waters and if the Greek military has the balls they can shoot down the Turkish plains who violates territorial waters of Greece

Turkey claims exactly the same the Air boarders as Greece does on its norther shores. The difference is Turkey can claim these limits and no one debates it. When Greece claims exactly the same as Turkey on its shores, Turkey says no. Further more Turkey says that if Greece actually claims what it is legally allowed by INTERNATIONAL LAW, Turkey will go to war with Greece, it is written in the Turkish constitution. Poor Greece for living next to such an extreme, uncivilized and hypocritical Islamic neighbour. Israel think they have problems, try living next to a pack of Turks. [...]

Read the full comment

In relation to Greece extending to 12nm, in the Aegean where Greek islands are closer then that to Turkey, nothing will actually change. The boundary is already in the middle of the distance..ie if the distance is 6nm, then 3nm is Greek, the other 3nm Turkish. That is how it will stay.

The reason Turkey threatens war, is because if Greece extends to 12nm, then Turkey will not be able to make it's claims in the Aegean without the International Community taking more notice of Turkeys aggressive and hostile behaviour to a NATO ally and member [...]

Read the full comment of the European Union.

What will happen then is the west will abandon Turkey in droves, and Turkey will be seen as another Iran and threat to world peace and security.

But it matters little now, because under the AKP and Erdogan/Gul, Turkey is fast headed to becoming the next muslim theocracy and isolation similar to Irans.

Kavachik and Mark, why dont you two educate your selves first.

Greece can go to the ICJ, but Turkey is not required to. The ruling is not binding either.

Greece has offered to Turkey to take the matter together to the ICJ, but Turkey has refused.

Why did Turkey refuse?

Simply because International Law, that is, the Law of the Sea Convention, is firmly in favour of the Greek position. Turkey has other ideas.

Why has Turkey extended it's sea [...]

Read the full comment boundaries to 12nm in the Black Sea, but threatens Greece with war if it does the same in the Aegean?
Why does Turkey violate Greek air space and the Athens FIR, and fly armed fighter jets over inhabited islands, a few hundred meters over peoples homes?

For the same other ideas Turkey has in the Aegean. It is no secret that Turkey claims half the Aegean belongs to it. Including some of the major inhabited Greek islands. There are over 1 million people living in the Aegean GREEK Islands. It is also no secret there is significant oil and gas in the Aegean..oil is estimated at several hundred billion barrels. That's a lot of money. It also just happens that the areas Turkey claims, are were the oil is. Funny that huh?

Maybe Russia should start claiming an EEZ all the way to the Turkish Black Sea Coast and about 50-100km into the mainland, and start armed flights over Turkish towns and cities, and send in research & survey ships to Turkish waters, create grey zones and claim it's continental shelf extends half way into Turkey.

It's basically the same bullcrap and lies Turkey makes up against Greece.

So, go educate your self you brainwashed Turk. You probably aren't even a pure Turk with Asiatic facial features, you are probably descended from Balkan people.

History tells a different side. I think the turkish aircraft are looking for a statue of ataturk. It has been told that ataturk was a gay person who very much loved children a bit too much. I dont want to call him pedophile but it has been written. The statue of ataturk is supposed to be somewhere there but he is wearing womans clothes instead of military.

Kavacik - you say Greece should go to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on this issue. Somehow I don't think the ICJ is very popular in Athens at the moment....

Educate yourselves on international laws of the air and seas. If Greece is wrong about its territory, then Turkey should agree with Greece to take the issue to the International Courts, as Greece has offered.

There are international laws that govern territorial air and waters. Greece is abiding by those laws, Turkey isn't. This isn't a Greek declaration, this is international law.

Educate yourselves.

Mark
Shalom!!
Without your diaspora you are nothing and reven less and you bloody know it very well.
you are in hysterics because you
perplexed and complexed you feel
trapped and its understood vey well
so keep calm and polite.
Cheers.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained Кариери квалификации

To Jason and TOM from Canada, we do not want to be loved but we do get the respect of the World, you Dog on Americans like that, no wonder we sopport the Turks, you are hateful and nasty old gorilla greek who went to Canada to clean tuvalets, I guess that al you can say, they are hated, yeah 1st fire power and second(Israel, and the 3rd (Turkey)l guess you do not stand the chance do you?

19 Km come on ,Greeks ae making their own laws now in international arena, No Turks or any other nation will go alone with Greek claim on international waters sorry, they need to get real, and Turks won't let them get wawy with it and neither should we.what Ageab sea is going to be their (Greeks) Now, thats waht they are claiming by unilaterally activating this rule of 19 Km,yeah right and good luck

Yes, Valeri and Aries, there was one (just one) Waffen SS Division formed in part from Bosnian Moslems - the 13th Division - and there was also the 21st "Skanderbeg" Division formed from Albanians, some of whom may have been Moslem (but all of them bloodthirsty and obeying the Kanun of Lek blood code). The other non-German Waffen SS Divisions (some 15 of them) formed towards the end of the War were from Latvians, Hungarians, Ukrainians and other occupied states - but no Poles ! There were also non-armed SS "Administratiev" Divisions who did things like running Konzentrationslagern (concentration camps), [...]

Read the full comment but these were virtually all German and Ukrainian, as in the current Demanchuk case.)

So, yes, there were two out of some 25 Waffen SS Divisions who had some non-Turkish Moslems in them, but this does not indicate to me that (as originally alleged by Peggy) that "the Nazis had a lot of Moslems in their ranks").

And, as Valeri says, those that there were would have been first for the gas experience had Germany won the war.

This has nothing to do with which country will side with whom. The last paragraph of the article tells in black and white where the problem is.(The airspace dispute arises from Greece’s claim of 19km of space, further than the limit of its territorial waters)
You can not extent your territorial waters one sided in the expense of your neighbour just because some nationalist politician have said so, there is a consequence to everything.

Rachel,
do you have a point?
I don't understand people who post to insult others without offering anything.
Epamos is the subject of your post? He is that important to you? If you are incline to moderate the forum, please do something about the folks who only post obscenities.
"I am proud that someone with such limited knowledge has confidence enough to speak to other people."

What does this mean?

Turkey has emerged as a regional superpower that doubles its population every 25 years. Greece and EU, on the other hand, are losing population. Now imagine what would happen when at 2085 Greece's 2 million 50+ population wants to confront 600 million bloodthirsty savage Turks backed by Greater Israel. (US will cease to exist by then, Mexico will abosrb Southern and Western parts, the remainder will be divided among a few weak and irrevelant states, mostly moslem.

Israel and Turkey and America are one.

Greece falls outside. Life is unfair. What else do you want? On the bright side at least in Greece people do not hate you. America Israel and Turkey are about as loved as a fresh peace of dog shit just rubbed into someones' face.

Dear Epaminondas,

I have followed your comments on all these Greek related articles. Your grasp of history is severely lacking, however your confidence in venting your poorly constructed garbage is huge. I am proud that someone with such limited knowledge has confidence enough to speak to other people. However I wish you would reserve your little speeches for children and animals, not people who use the internet and might actually know something about Turkey and Greece.

This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

Epaninondas

The 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) was one of the thirty-eight divisions fielded as part of the Waffen-SS during World War II. Composed almost entirely of non-German Muslim and Catholic recruits drawn from Bosnia. Handschar (Bosnian/Croatian: Handžar) was the local word for the Turkish scimitar (Arabic: Khanjar) a historical symbol of Bosnia and Islam

TURKEY IS PREDECESSOR OF ISRAEL'S ACCESSION TO THE EU,THE LINK IS THERE
CHEERS
<<
GRATITUDE(IF ANY LEFT NOWADAYS) HAS A SHORT MEMORY.

[...]

Read the full comment MAIN MOTO OF INTERNATIONAL POLITICS
>>

I'm Greek Canadian and I'm sure Israelis and Americans would side with Greece over Turkish pigs any time of the day. A lot of stuff going on here, but in the end Turkey is going to eat a big one.

Epamos, Peggy is right, although I don't see the connection to the current dispute in the lease.

The Germans organized Muslim SS units, and that's recorded history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)

Another point that had they won WWII those SS units would've been next in line for the ovens..

Peggy - where's your evidence for saying that the "Nazis had a lot of Moslems in their ranks " ? For starters, the SS and the Nazi party structure had a simple, crude, and biological test to identify infiltrators from the Jewish community who attempted to join their elite ranks.

Any male applicant who was circumcised was summarily sent to a Konzentrationslager (concentration camp), as circumcision was unknown amongst the ethnic German population. This barbaric but fairly infallible test would also weed out any Muslims too.

I think I make my point, [...]

Read the full comment unpleasant though it might be.

Peggy. Pls dont post drivel.

Politics has no friends and no memory. Has Israel forgotten who was actually committed to exterminating them during WW2?
It was the Nazis which had a lot of Muslims in their ranks and we all know where Turkish hearts lie.

Greece was an ally but seems that Israel doesn't respect that.
So much for being on their side. Now they seem not to want to know.

Israel move another incremental step closer to Apartheid.