Just example with what kind of people we live in europ...Your president PEGGY
Mini biography: MILLOSEVIC Slobodan Born on 20 August 1941 in Pozarevac, 60 km southeast of Belgrade, in Serbia, Yugoslavia. He is the second son of a former Orthodox priest from Montenegro and a Serbian communist schoolmistress. Both parents commit suicide, his father in 1962, 15 years after abandoning the family to return to Montenegro, and his mother in 1973. An uncle, his mother's brother, also takes his own life.Milosevic is arrested and imprisoned by the Serb Government on 1 April on charges of abuse of [...]

Read the full comment power and corruption. He is accused of smuggling gold bullion out of the country and of having arranged the assassinations of political opponents.

On 28 June, the anniversary of the 1389 battle at Kosovo Polje, he is extradited to The Hague to face the UN Criminal Tribunal for his role in the atrocities committed by Serbian forces during the Kosovo conflict. He is charged with the murder of 9000 Kosovo-Albanians and the deportation of 740,000 more. He is the first head of state ever be brought before an international war crimes court.

At the end of November the indictment is extended to include acts of genocide committed during the war in Bosnia. Clark also provides testimony on a conversation with Milosevic concerning Kosovo. "President Milosevic was musing philosophically about this," Clark says, "And he turned to me and said, 'General Clark,' he said, 'We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists, these criminals.' He said, 'We've done this before.' I said, 'Well, when?' He said, 'In Drenica in 1946.' And I said, 'What did you do?' He said, 'We killed them.' He said, 'We killed them all.' I was stunned at the vehemence with which he spoke, and I just looked at him."

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Rien ne sert a courir il faut partir a temps
Alija Izetbegovic, the President of Bosnia-Herzegovian called for independence for Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1992 leading to the Bosnia war. In 1970 in his Islamic Declaration he had written this: “The exhaustive definition of the Islamic Order is: the unity of religion and law, education and force, ideals and interests, spiritual society and State. The Muslim does not exist at all as an independent individual…There can be no peace or coexistence between Islamic faith and non-Islamic faith and institutions. The Islamic movement must and can take power as soon as [...]

Read the full comment it is morally and numerically strong enough not only to destroy the non-Islamic power but to build up the Islamic one." It is clear that Europe and the United States blithely ignored clear evidence of what was likely to happen in Bosnia

Sirivan, you are wasting time with this reality guy. If you look at all he has written you will see that he keeps to his Hague BS like it was the holy Koran.
The reason he holds so hard onto what the Hague has said is because he cannot possibly discredit anything anyone who says the opposite.

He says that the names I provided here mean nothing to him. All those people are nothing but of course he is above them and he knows better. We should all reject what those people say but [...]

Read the full comment totally embrace what he says.

Bottom line. He does not want to speak the truth because truth does not serve him well. He wants to rewrite history and the whole world to embrace his version.

Talking to this Albanian is useless. He knows the truth.
At the end of the day it really is irrelevant what he says. The world knows what happened and how.

What Albanians say is not important at all. Do we really expect such people to be honest?

RealitBites

Get real. The kangaroo court in The Hague has no intention of proving anything other that Serbs are criminals and everyone is a victim. If they allowed the facts to emerge it would discredit NATO/UA intervention in Bosnia and Serbia.

It is too long a story to be told in "bites" that you can understand but I will try.

1. Hostilities in the former Yugoslavia were started by Croats and Muslims in Bosnian. Look up the brutal murder of the JNA soldier outside the Army barracks in [...]

Read the full comment Spliot. His death was reality TV. Recently a member of Croatia's Tujman government openly confirmed that Croatia indeed started hostilities against Serbs in Croatia.

2. Look up the incident at Medak.

3. Look up the Slovenian black shirts and their treatment of Serbs in Slovenia!!.

4. Look up the Lisbon agreement of 1992, which peacefully established a power sharing structure between Serbs, Muslims and Croats which Serbs and Croats signed. Alija Izetbegovic, the then Bosnian president by rotation pondered, and was swayed by the Clinton administration to not sign, on the promise he would get a better deal ignoring the reality that Muslims Serbs represent more than 50% of the population. The deal was: Do not sign, NATO would bomb Serbs to bring them to the negotiating table and get them to sign a territorially more favourable deal for the Muslims. The rest is history. It took 3 years of bloodshed, 100,000 killed, (40,000 of whom were Serbs!!! - where are the war criminals?) to get to Dayton in 1995, which with minor variations mirrored the Lisbon agreement. Today the West is slowly trying to unwind the Dayton agreement, transforming Bosnia into a Muslim dominated state despite the population is predominantly Christian. But I digress.

5. Look up Nasir Oric who operating out of the safe haven that was Srebrenica, commanded a Bosnian division of fighters who were responsible for the deaths of some 3,000 Serbs in the surrounding villages. Serb authorities documented the deaths and sent three reports to UN asking that they do something about Oric and his henchmen. Nothing was done. Charges of war crimes against him were dropped for lack of evidence, despite boastfully showing the media videos of his escapades against Serbian civilians.

6. In 1940 Serbs represented more than 50% of Croatia's population. After WW2 Croatia's territory was enlarged by Tito, yet since then Serbs have been reduced to less than 4% of the population.

7. Same story in Kosovo. before WW2 Serbs were a majority in Kosovo. Today they are squeezed in an enclave representing less than 5%, thanks to NATO's intervention. Serbs have no right of return, no right to speak their language. Albanians have been systematically desecrating cemeteries and have destroyed some 200 orthodox churches and monasteries.

8. Muslims in Bosnia waging war against Serbs received not-so-secret support from many nations during a time when there was an arms embargo on weapons supply to all parties. NATO and retried US generals were the main suppliers of military support in Operation Storm which drove out 250,000 Serbian civilians from their homes in Croatia. Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, and other middle eastern countries provide supplies. A 5,000 strong Islamic brigade of Pakistani, Chechen and Afghans men, some of whom were al Qaeda operatives, fought on the side of the Muslims. Beheading was their preferred treatment of Serbs.

I can go on for a while like this with more reality bites. Suffice to say that during the West-Soviet cold war of the 1970's and 1980's Yugoslavia stood in the way of European eastward expansion, an expansion that only a few days ago was confirmed by Ahtissari in a speech he gave in Pristina.
Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians received support from the West mainly because they were the principal ethnic groups though their support of Nazi Germany that were opposed to communism. Alija Izetbegovic was a member of the S Hanjar Division. He was later imprisoned in Yugoslvia for publishing as book that called for the establishment of a radical Islamic state in Bosnia.

Within Yugoslavia, Serbs were the most dominant population (despite loosing some 50% of men during WW1) with socialist pro-Soviet pro-Russia orientation. The connections go back centuries. A Serb general Miloradovich commanded an army in defense of Moscow when Napoleon invaded Russia with an army among whom were Albanians and Croats. Russian volunteers fought against Turks in Serbia's fight for liberation from the the Ottomans.

Of all the ethnicitites that made up Yugoslavia, Serbs most strongly held to the ideals that represented Yugoslavia and their connections to Russia. Croats and Alabanians, Bosnian Muslims, Nazis to the core were always scheming. Throughout the 1960's Croatian terrorists were bombing Yugoslav consulates and JAT offices, executing ambassadors and blew up a JAT aircraft over Czechoslovakia. in 1972, twelve heavily armed Croats, some of whom trained in Australia landed on Yugoslav soil and waged a war with local authorities before they were killed.

Likewise in Kosovo. There is plenty of information indicating that Kosovo Albanians were receiving support from Albania proper for the creation of Greater Albania that includes all of Kosovo and roughly 1/3 of Macedonia and pretty much all of Epirus in Greece. There is ammlpe evidence of pogroms against Serbs going back decades. Systematic intimidation by Albanians of Serbs was taking place and is still taking place to force them out of their own communities. Similar intimidations take place in Macedonia where some cities are no-go zones for Macedonians. Albanians are an arrogant bunch of people who cannot tolerate other ethnicities within their community.


The plans to bomb Serbia were drawn up 2 years before the shameful Ramboullet fiasco. That was roughly when the Clinton administration secured appropriation to build the Camp Bondsteel military base in Kosovo. Building started as soon as Serbian forces left Kosovo. Today it is the largest military base outside the USA and plays a central role in US/NATO eastward expansion.

The only atrocities that were taking place in Kosovo before NATO's bombing of Serbia were those perpetrated by Albanians, KLA to be exact(funded and trained by USA and German military in bases on Albanian soil), against Serb civilians and authorities. For decades. Bombs were exploded in cafes killing Serbian teenagers. "Serb hunting" was the favourite past-time of Albanian youth. Serbians received little justice from judiciary and police force that was dominated by Albanians. Against this background and the threat of military strikes Serbs were being forced to surrender their country to NATO (read Appendix 2 of the Ramboullet agreement). Rightly they refused to sign. But the pretext for NATO's subsequent bombing was set. What followed was an unleashing of a propaganda war to influence public opinion in the countries from where NATO troops would be coming. Jamie Shae, having written a thesis on Goebbels released one lie after another - 100,000 men murdered in Pristina stadium - a lie; 100,000 babies born to Albanian women raped by Serbs - a lie [unless Albanian women have an incubation of only 4 months]. Sadly the media reported this and people, like you accepted it as a reality bite.

The media war that was waged against Serbs [the governments of Croatia and Albania and the Bosnian Muslims used the same PR firm - Rudder and Finn] succeeded in equating the Serbs as aggressors, yet if you care to dig deep enough you will realise that Serbs have been the victims. The main thing that irks Croats and Muslims, and particularly Albanians is that Serbs have been on the right side of victories of two World Wars. As for the Balkans, Serbs fought for centuries and succeeded in securing their independence and eventual liberty from the Ottomans. Often they fought against Albanians who converted to Islam became vassals of the Ottomans.

Reality, I have already answred this many times. The reason Serbs are accused and convicted of genocide is becaue America says it was genocide. The rest of muppets will follow.

When I say America, I am talking primarily of the elites there who control the governemnt just like the do in the UK. The media is owned by some of these people so what do you expect. Massive propaganda. Since hisotyr is written by the winners we have "genocide" used very liberally here.

So you see I would rather trust these people [...]

Read the full comment who you try to discredit. AGAIN, you say it but show me where they are discredited.

Go on, show me where these people are called what you are calling them. Even bought and paid for media cannot provide evidence of that. So what you say remains exactly what I am calling it, GARBAGE.

Wow the names you provided me with are a real "who's who" of important people in the world. Let's get serious, the opinion of some fringe "scholars" and "luminaries" are not going to change the global consensus that exists regarding the crimes, including genocide, that the Serbs committed in Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Kosovo in the 90s. The Serbs have literally been tried and convicted of having committed genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

Reality, everyone I mention you hang s**t on. Well I think the same of your beloved Hague as well. Many people think the same too so yes we can hang s**t on each other's suggestions. It's the easiest thing to do.

Now let's see you try to hang the same you know what on Noam Chomsky.

I know for a fact that over here in Australia he is very well regarded even to the point that his writings have been held as examples in universities for students of International Relations to use. [...]

Read the full comment

Yes, I have seen you ridicule him as well.

Now since you are so clever, do provide me with some evidence where reputable people have dismissed the people I have written about. You know who they are. Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Lewis MacKenzie, Gregory Clark, Scott Taylor, James Bissett.

Come on, don't just talk, show me where negative things have been written about these people.

I looked up your "researcher" Alexander Dorin, and all I found is his writing on seedy websites. Everything he wrote seems to be connected to the Srebrenica Genocide and none of his writing has been published by a serious academic journal. What exactly qualifies him as a "scholar" is unclear at this moment, perhaps it's a title he gave to himself to give an ounce of credibility to his otherwise baseless claims.

Wow some article written by a "Swiss researcher" is going to trump the investigations carried out by hundreds of forensic criminologists and international lawyers.

See Peggy the problem with all your "evidence" is that is uncontested and not peer-reviewed. It's published on some esoteric websites and written by shady "researchers". If those "reserachers" wanted to really challenge the facts regarding the Srebrenica Genocide then they should publish their views in academic peer-reviewed journals and not on some seedy website.

A "scholar" that publishes his "research" on websites and does not put it [...]

Read the full comment up for scholastic debate in scholarly peer-reviewed journals is not going to be taken seriously by scientific and legal establishments.

I gave you formal court rulings by the ICTY and ICJ and resolutions by the US congress and you keep giving me on-line articles which have not been peer-reviewed and whose claims have not been verified. According to you every editor on wikipedia would qualify as being a "scholar". But unfortunately for your dead-on-arrival argument, even the wikipedia article on the Srebrenica Genocide calls it a GENOCIDE.

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You have lost this argument since you have defaulted on the necessity to provide counter evidence to my evidence. I have given you several court ruling which are legally binding and you have repeatedly responded with personal unverified claims. It is well known that Bosnian Serbs committed genocide in Srebrenica and nobody is really even arguing about that fact except some Serbs still living in denial or those who support the fascist Serbian policies that led to the genocide in the first place. Let's not forget that the majority of Serbians supported Milosevic and his genocidal policies for a decade [...]

Read the full comment despite their full knowledge of the crimes their government was involved in.

The Serbian state has agreed to abide by any ruling brought by the ICTY and the ICJ. Both of these international courts have ruled that the Bosnian Serbs committed genocide in Bosnia. The state of Serbia by their binding agreement to abide by the court's rulings agrees that the Bosnian Serbs committed genocide in Bosnia.

Far from finding the ICJ to be a discredited court the Serbs are placing all their hopes of preventing Kosovo from becoming an independent state on it. All Serbian efforts to prevent further recognitions of Kosovo's self declared independence rest on the ruling of the ICJ. Serbia accepts that the Bosnian Serbs committed genocide in Bosnia and they are still waiting on the ruling of the ICJ regarding Kosovo's declaration of independence.

Reality,

Here you go again. Suffering from verba diarrhoea.
I really don't give a damn what you think. You should know that by now and stop trying to shove your crap down my throat.

BTW, Gregory Clark is not and never was a UN commander. It was General Lewis MacKenzie. Gregory Clark is another person whose opinion matters. But then, you have never heard of him and will still call him a nut job like the rest.

All those people have more credibility than you so [...]

Read the full comment kindly get off my back and DON'T respond to me again. I am sick and tired of you.

Peddle your crap to anyone who is naive and refuses to look futher than their nose for the truth. You will find many like that.

Unless you can prvide me with some evidence that the people you are discrediting have been discredited by reputable establishments do SHUT UP. It is only YOUR WORD and nothing else.

Provide evidence of just p.O.

Peggy

Haha you have an excuse for everything don't you? Everybody is out to get Serbia for some reason or other... Please expand your horizons, Milosevic is not in power to tell you what to think anymore you have information from all around the world available to you, there is no need for you to live in a cocoon deprived of all objective information.

I'm sure Serbian propaganda is fun to read, and everybody loves being told what they want to hear all the time, but really to understand the real world [...]

Read the full comment you have to read things other then Serbian propaganda.

With you its always "they don't like Serbia" or "they want to take Serbian land" or "they're out to destroy Serbia", or "they're only saying that because....Serbia..." etc.

According to you the word of US perennial anti-establishment scholar Noam Chomsky (who had never visited the Srebrenica mass graves to look at the exhumation of bodies) is credible but that of award winning journalist Christiane Amanpour who has visited Srebrenica repeatedly is not. The claims by Canadian former general Gregory Clark are based on what really happened but those of decorated general Wesley Clark are not. The resolutions of genocide-denying Serb apologists stuck in the Milosevic era mindset are objective but the resolutions passed by hundreds of US senators and congressmen is not. Some obscure pseudo-scholarly claims need to be trusted but official court reports based on forensic evidence and eye-witness accounts should not. Serbian propaganda is trustworthy but the reporting of the BBC is not. And the list goes on...

If you heard yourself argue you'd realize that you are way off the mainstream way of thinking regarding the Balkans. You are making the same claims that Serb propagandists made in the 90s and guess what nobody found them credible. That's why nobody ever reads the Serbian press to get an objective view of what's going on in the Balkans. The Serbs view of their own country and their neighboring countries is so warped and pro-Serb that it can not be trusted by any objective and rational person interested in what is going on in that region of the world.

Reality, I see you know how to paste. You wrote this,

Who is "we"? Here is a resolution that was passed by the US Congress to mark the 10th anniversary of the Srebrenica Genocide:

United States resolutions H.199 and S.134

This is what I was talking about.
US has passed a resolution.

I think you already know what I think of any US resolution. I might not even want to use it for toilet paper.

The only reason [...]

Read the full comment US has condemned Serbia to this extent is:

!!!!CAMP BONDSTEEL!!!!

Yes, their military base which they need there and would never have been able to place there without all this propaganda and NATO involvement.

Now you know. I don't buy anything US tell me. They have waged wars all over the world for several decades now in order to depose legitimate governemnts, cause civil wars in countries all for profit of a few special interest groups.
The psopaganda machine goes in overdrive when they want to control a country.
Since they couldn't control Serbia they had to separate the area they wanted by any means possible.

Now please go and bore someone esle with you crap. Don't bother quoting anything from the Hague or from US to me again. It's all bullshit.

Peggy

You stated:

"we all know that the Hague is a Kangaroo court set up only to convict the Serbs for political reasons"

Who is "we"? Here is a resolution that was passed by the US Congress to mark the 10th anniversary of the Srebrenica Genocide:

United States resolutions H.199 and S.134

Expresses the sense of the [House of Representatives]/[Senate] that that:

(1) the thousands of innocent people executed at Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina in [...]

Read the full comment July 1995, along with all individuals who were victimized during the conflict and genocide in Bosnia and Herzegovina from 1992 to 1995, should be remembered and honored;
(2) THE SERBIAN POLICIES OF AGGRESSION AND ETHNIC CLEANSING MEET THE TERMS DEFINING GENOCIDE;
(3) foreign nationals, including U.S. citizens, who have risked, and in some cases lost, their lives in Bosnia and Herzegovina should be remembered and honored;
(4) the United Nations (U.N.) and its member states should accept their share of responsibility for allowing the Srebrenica massacre and genocide to occur, and seek to ensure that this does not happen in future crises;
(5) it is in the U.S. national interest that the responsible individuals should be held accountable for their actions;
(6) persons indicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) should be apprehended and transferred to The Hague without further delay, and countries should meet their obligations to cooperate with the ICTY; and
(7) the United States should support the independence and territorial integrity of Bosnia and Herzegovina and peace and stability in southeastern Europe.

The EU, US, Croatia, Montenegro, etc. all mark July 11th as a remembrance day of the Srebrenica genocide. The Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C. has set up en exhibit about the Srebrenica Genocide.

Who did you mean when you said "we" Peggy? It seems to me that your "we" includes you, some radical Serbs who continue to deny the Srebrenica Genocide, and some fringe academics/wannabe academics who post their genocide denial in non-academic sources such as interviews and not peer-reviewed journals or textbooks.

Reality, for someone who is not trying to convince you sure talk a lot.
The prbblem is that you keep repeating that same garbage in hope of someone actually believing you without any evidence.

Yes, you say the Hague has labelled it genocide but we all know that the Hague is a Kangaroo court set up only to convict the Serbs for political reasons.

Instead of suffering from verbal diarrhoea please provide some credible evidence. None of that CNN or BBC crap. They all repeat each others crap anyway.
[...]

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I have provided links earlier on to some articles written by individuals who are not in the business of spewing crap because they are not owened by Saudies or special interest groups. These people enjoy a good reputation around the world (I know, you have labelled them nut jobs), but again that is only your opinion. Show me where credible people have labelled them nut jobs. I refuse to take your word for it.

Peggy

I have never tired to convince you personally of anything since that would be impossible, not due to a fault in my pedagogical technique but due to your inability to accept facts, evidence, and reality. Feel free to believe whatever you want. I am here informing rational people who might read this board that the claims you are making are baseless, false, and dangerous. Dangerous because denying genocide and condoning genocidal ideologies such as the one that Milosevic, Karazdic, and Mladic had leads to more violence and bloodshed unless it is confronted on time.
[...]

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You, Peggy, are denying a proven genocide and that makes you a craven and morally deficient person however more importantly it makes you a mouth-piece for other even more craven and morally deficient people who might commit acts of violence such as the ones we saw in Srebrenica.

When Karadzic told Bosniaks in the Bosnian parliament in 1992 that

“They [Muslims] will disappear, these people will disappear from the face of the earth”

Few people took him seriously which was a mistake. Only a few years later that very same man orchestrated the Srebrenica Genocide against the Bosniaks in an effort to fulfill his promise.

People who deny a genocide are the same as those who condone and support it. It only leads to more violence and must be challenged on time.

Kosova is a part of Albania.

Peggy

Your opinion matters as much as mine, however it matters much much less then that of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia.

Reality, I already told you what I think of that Kangaroo court, so you can save your breath there.

Also what is this you won't tolerate my denial of genocide in Srebrenica? What are you going to do about it? Nothing. Just jump up and down and get a hear attack. Who cares.

BTW, I am not feeling uncomfortable [...]

Read the full comment about anything.
I have always stated that Serbs comitted crimes but so did all the others. War is brutal and ugly. Everyone goes in for the kill. It's unfortuante but a reality so you will just have to live with the whole truth which is that your lot did a lot of killing and torture.

What happened to the organs they cut out of Serbs? If that is not the most ghoulish act then what is?
You have a lot more to be uncomfortable about than me and a helluva lot more to be ashamed of.

So take your preaching and shove it where the sun don't shine because you are only talking through your behind.
Your paid for propaganda is not going to cut it any more around the world. Most people can see you Albanians for what you truly are and that is ghouls, for only ghouls harvest organs.

Branimir Maksimovic

You state

"the lies and misleading information being sent around regarding the serbs as agressors and people who commited the worst genocide since ww2"

Please read the ruling of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) that I posted. It clearly states that Bosnian Serbs committed genocide in the Bosnian town of Srebrenica. Once you fully read their verdict and familiarize yourself with the Srebrenica Genocide and other war crimes that were committed by Serb military and paramilitary units in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosovo [...]

Read the full comment you will see for yourself that your impassioned argument is baseless and false. The Bosnian Serbs were convicted of committing Genocide and Serbia was convicted of not having prevented said genocide from occurring and not having apprehended those responsible for said genocide.

The mastermind of the Srebrenica Genocide Ratko Mladic is still living freely in Serbia and has to this day, 14 years after the genocide, not been apprehended to face charges of genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. That is truly shameful behavior of the Serbian state and I am glad that the Netherlands is standing up for justice by blocking Serbia's efforts to join the EU until they apprehend and extradite that savage to the Hague to face justice for the crimes he committed.

Peggy

Your opinion matters as much as mine, however it matters much much less then that of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia.

You are making claims which are baseless and false. I am simply confronting you with the truth which apparently is not to your liking. I'm glad that the truth is making you feel very uncomfortable because genocide is a very ugly thing that should make all humans feel uncomfortable. Instead of denying what happened and trying to avoid the pangs of guilt the Serbian people and their [...]

Read the full comment apologists need to confront the truth of what happened, apologize for their actions, and make amends with the victims of their actions.

Unless Serbia and Serbians living in the Balkans make a clear and permanent break from the Serbofascist ideology of Milosevic, Karadzic, and Mladic the Balkans will never be at peace. Hitler could not be appeased and neither can Serbian fascists who are eager to use ethnic cleansing and genocide to achieve their political goals. It is the Serbian people themselves that have to challenge Serbofascist ideology and those who wish to keep it alive.

Peggy I will not tolerate your denial of the Srebrenica Genocide. You simply have to understand that. There is no "commit Genocide and get away with it" card that the Serbs can play to get away from what they did. There are mass graves being found all over the Balkans where Serbs mercilessly dumped the bodies of their non-Serb victims. Once a country or a people commit genocide, the greatest crime known to man, they are forever stained by it. Their only option after committing the crime is to face their heinous acts, to apologize and make amends to the victims, and to pursue a political path that will educate their young about the crimes that were committed and teach them not to fall for the same destructive ideology as their predecessors. That's what the Germans have been doing since the end of WWII and that's what Serbia will have to do for a long time to come.

Peggy the Serbs can run from the crimes that were committed by them but they can't hide. They can never hide from the truth.

The picture of the balkans in the last 19 years has largely been put down in history that it began in 1991 and ended with the genocide of muslims in bosnia, albanians in kosovo. Stop people. Stop and think. Stop and read.. Genocide should not be supported by no group of people. Im serbian..!!! 1991 was not the start of the balkans or its People(s)... The slavs migrated here in the 5th century as Slavs, the great schism began the history of the balkans, it created the serbs and croats as Orthodox and Catholic followers.. Later the ottomans arrived, which [...]

Read the full comment created the muslims of slavic backround. Throughout time each group became larger in numbers and formed an identity solely on there religious beliefs.. Genocide was commited first and foremost upon the Serbian people, starting from the ottomans, continuing with the Austrians then Hungarians then austro hungarians, then the germans then the croats while at the same time continuosly by the turks of the ottoman empire.. Serbs as a people today still form the largest single group on the balkans apart from the romanians.. During the 15th 16 17 and 18th centuries serbs where brutally killed, kidnapped, islamised and moved all around the balkans. from 1941-45 1 million serbs were killed by the ustase(croats) a supporter of nazi germany. The population of kosovo has throughout the past 3 centuries changed from a serbian majority to turkish dominated and islamic influenced with the inclusion of albanians which eventually through genocide today hold a 90% majority. If we had technology back then like we do today the world would not be fooled by todays actions and stories , but we dont, so we must explain. Its a fact that the serbs were moved through time from kosovo because serbs living elsewhere carry the blood and names of those leaving kosovo, not freely but forcefully. In 1991 there were 600000 serbs in croatia , today there are 190000. Genocide or not? Kosovo 1999 1.5mil pop 26% serbs, today 1.8mil pop 6-10%serbs genocide or not? The bosnian government continuely keeps postponing its census because the outcome would be opposite to the media war lead against the serbs.. because there is hardly any life of serbian spirit left in the muslim-croat controlled area of bosnia.. 91-93 there were more serbs killed in bosnia then albanians in the last 20 years by serbs. Srebrenica before the massacre of 95, was ethnically cleansed of serbs through naser oric. just under 4000 serbs were killed and tortured, meanwhile the dayton peace agreement was drawn up and still after the massacre of the muslims of srebrenica the city and its surroundings became part of the serb entity.. Why? the problem is people are misinformed, and those who inform the misleading information are not the ones telling the truth , but the ones with the wealth to support it... Its not great for the albanians and croats to praise themselves over the fact there nations, including the autonamous region of KiM as being even ethnically cleaner and formiing a greater percentage on the land they live then the bulgarians in bulgaria. With that attitude there will be no success. Serbia on the other hand, had and has always looked at all its citizens, today excluding kosovo serbs form 75% of serbia meaning there are 2 million members of minorty groups in a country of only 8 million. Now there facts to be proud of,. It only shows that we can live with others and others with us... We live where we live, that will never change, but what must change is the lies and misleading information being sent around regarding the serbs as agressors and people who commited the worst genocide since ww2 when in fact , no other country has a greater % of refugees then serbia, when there are 700000 displaced serbs who were forced from there homes in croatia bosnia and kosovo. Thats reality people are not informed about... i feel strongly and have much to say, but there is no space for what my heart and mind would like to speak.. Open your books look back in history whilst keeping your eyes open and then and only then you will see the true picture .. It did not start in 1991 and end with the massacre of muslims in srebrenica nor did it start in 1999 and end with the genocide of albanians in Kosovo. The facts are different, all you have to do is find them. Open your eyes, look at whats happening.. Look at the greater picture, not the snap shot given to us.

Reality, I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours so kindly don't tell me to keep my opinions to myself.

BTW, do you actually feel anything for the Serbian casualties as well or are you just sympathetic to your own?

So who do you think you are telling me to keep quiet while you go on and on about Muslim casualties and expect the whole world to sympathise with you while at the same time not even giving a passing thought to the others.

[...]

Read the full comment /> Hypocracy is an ugly thing. I have already stated that all three sides killed and were victims. Are you raady to tell the whole truth or are you only going to pretend that only the Muslims died?

What the hell makes you and your opinion any more imporant than mine and many others who want to know about all the dead and not just the Muslims?
You sure have a lot to be proud of. Monsters like Oric, Celo and Izetbegovic. Your kind is not without sin so think about that before you continue to cast stones.

Do you honestly belive that the world is deaf and blind? The whole truth is emerging now and your side is no longer the only victim.

Peggy

As I have stated earlier you are free to believe whatever you want. However please do not think that you can openly deny the Srebrencia Genocide and not be challenged on your deceitful statements. Denying Genocide is simply unacceptable and you need to understand that. Either keep your opinions to yourself or be able to back them up with evidence, spreading lies and deception which insults the memory of thousands of people that were killed in the Srebrenica Genocide and their surviving family members is deeply offensive and unacceptable. I have nothing against you personally [...]

Read the full comment but denying genocide is simply a cowardly act that deserves to be challenged. People who refuse to condemn a proven genocide are ready to commit it or support those who commit it again and genocide will never be allowed to occur against Bosnians again.

Reality, I have already told you what I think of the Hague so I will end my discussion here.

You simply cannot convince me of ANYTHING quoting that Kangaroo court. That Kangaroo court was set up precisely for the reason of trying Serbs and making sure they are found guilty. How else do you explain Serbs being held there for years before any trial even begins.

Since it was set up to serve US interests why the hell would I believe anything that comes out of it.

Now [...]

Read the full comment do you see that there is NO WAY I will take their word for anything and definately will not take their word on how they phrase their charges.

I think we can safely move on from that one now.

Peggy

Here is the ruling that QUALIFIED LEGAL EXPERTS working at the ICTY have made regarding the Srebrenica Genocide:

"By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims [Bosniaks], the Bosnian Serb forces committed genocide. They targeted for extinction the forty thousand Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity."
[...]

Read the full comment />
And

"The Court concludes that the acts committed at Srebrenica falling within Article II (a) and (b) of the Convention were committed with the specific intent to destroy in part the group of the Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina as such; and accordingly that these were acts of genocide, committed by members of the VRS in and around Srebrenica from about 13 July 1995."

When the people who wrote the dictionary (i.e. the international judges and lawyers working at the ICTY) tell you that the Serbs committed GENOCIDE then there is no need to read the book, which will tell you the exact same thing as the people who wrote and are QUALIFIED to interpret international law.

Peggy, everyone can buy a medical dictionary but not everyone can go out and do the job of a doctor, only qualified individuals who graduated from medical school are QUALIFIED to make diagnoses and prescribe medications. In the exact same way only people [...]

Read the full comment who finished law school and have years of experience working in the field of international law are QUALIFIED to interpret international law and to pass down sentences upon war criminals.

The EXPERTS of international law working at the ICTY have based their EXPERT rulings and opinions on years of EVIDENCE collected by hundreds of FORENSIC SCIENTISTS and CRIMINOLOGISTS. Their ruling carried the legal and moral WEIGHT on this argument your does not.

You are NOT an international lawyer or judge, are NOT a forensic expert, do NOT have the required schooling and experience to interpret international law pertaining to the crimes of genocide, and your opinion carries absolutely no weight in any formal discussion on the subject. You are free to have your personal opinions, as do the people who believe in Bigfoot and alien abductions, however serious people do not take your claims seriously and neither do the serious international institutions they work for.

Dear Peggy -

Do read carefully what RealityBites says.

Firstly, "genocide" - as defined - does not include complete extermination of a particular ethnic population, but it does include a sustained attempt to do so in a part of the territory concerned. Under this definition Srebrenica would indeed qualify. So would Auschwitz / Oswiecim .

Secondly, eyewitness accounts from the Republika Srpska part of the Bosnian confederation suggest that the Serb population is trying very hard to intimidate the remaining Moslem and Croatian population to leave. Difficult to [...]

Read the full comment refute all this...

Reality, I suggest you get a dictionary.

The fact that the Hague was set up purely to pursue American agenda and call what happened in Srebrenica genocide is a political issue. That court was used to paint the Serbs as the only criminals and villains and the term genocide does not describe what happened in Bosnia.

Is Srebrenica the whole of Bosnia? Have the Serbs tried to systematically and deliberately exterminate all Muslims. NO.

So I tell you to look up word genocide in the dictionary and then [...]

Read the full comment speak.
I don't care what that Kangaroo court says. It says whatever the US and UK want it to say and it will label that war anything they are told to label it.

Do you understand it now? I have put it in simple language for you.

Peggy

You are NOT qualified to tell me or anybody else what genocide is or isn't. The International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTFY)is an actual court where real lawyers and judges work. Please quit telling us what defines genocide, the fact is that you don't know and your personal opinion has absolutely nothing to do with international law. If an international criminal tribunal unequivocally states that the Serbs committed genocide in Bosnia then that is their final ruling. I would take the word of an international criminal tribunal over your personal unqualified opinion any [...]

Read the full comment day of the week.

The international community has made an unequivocal decision regarding the genocide that Serbia committed and your opinion is not going to change that.

The huge amount of evidence collected and the testimonies of thousands of forensic experts and witnesses speak louder then your isolated and misguided personal views.

You can deny the Srebrenica Genocide all you want but in the end you are simply supporting the genocide that was carried out and are justifying the murder of innocent civilians. That makes you a coward and a person lacking moral integrity.

Epamin, thank you for pointing out my typing mistake.
Slovenia has TWO according to you main ethnic groups. Serbia has many more. That's how they are more mixed. Romanians have their own language as do Hungarians, Albanians etc.
Are you trying to say that there are more ethnic groups living in Slovenia than Serbia?
Let's not forget the Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Roma. I think you know how to count so why even say what you have said.

Reality, the Hague was set up by the Americans for a purpose [...]

Read the full comment of trying and convicting predominately Serbs. This is all political. It's all about politics and not about justice. Those muppets there would say anything they are told to say.

Carla Del Ponte herself played along very nicely until she left her post. Then she opened her mouth and started to talk a little. This goes to show just how biased the Hague is and their version of genocide is not the same as most of the world.

Again, genocide is extermination of an entire race. Bosnia is a lot bigger than Srebrenica where BTW we can argue about numbers and also where Serb civilian deaths are not even mentioned.

As far as using the internet, you are really clutching to straws here. Everyone around the world has contributed to the internet and the good thing is that you can get your hands on the news from around the world now so you are not limited in your knowledge by only swallowing what your local media is spewing out.

Peggy

You stated

"And Serbia did not commit genocide. This is a western invention"

Really? So for something to be valid it has to be approved by the Serbs? Should we ask those who committed genocide for their approval that we may call the crime by its proper name? Most interesting idea you have there Peggy. Judge rules that a person committed murder, the convict says "I didn't do it" and gets off scott free. The justice system does not require the perpetrator of a crime to admit [...]

Read the full comment guilt Peggy it simply required that through evidence the perpetrator is shown to be guilty of a crime. The ICTY has clearly shown that the Serbs committed Genocide in Bosnia and the international community has accepted that ruling. The Serbs and their own opinions are completely irrelevant, though if they were decent people they would feel remorse for their crime and would apologize.

Here is the ruling of the ICTY for you Peggy so that you may see it for yourself. It states the following:

"By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims [Bosniaks], the Bosnian Serb forces committed genocide. They targeted for extinction the forty thousand Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity."

And

"The Court concludes that the acts committed at Srebrenica falling within Article II (a) and (b) of the Convention were committed with the specific intent to destroy in part the group of the Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina as such; and accordingly that these were acts of genocide, committed by members of the VRS in and around Srebrenica from about 13 July 1995."

You see that the Serbs were CONVICTED for having committed GENOCIDE against Bosniak civilians in Srebrenica.

Peggy why are you using the internet if you don't believe in "western inventions"? Go and use smoke signals to communicate since those were definitely not a "western invention".

Peggy - you asked how Slovenia is more "moxed" (I think you meant "mixed"). The answer is easy: Slovenia has two sizeable ethnic minorities - the Italian one around Gorizia/Nova Gorica, and the Hungarian one around Murska Sobota and Lendava. Both minorities have their own schools in the area, the right to use their own language, and (most importantly) the right to be represented in the Slovene parliament, where seats are reserved for both minorities.

I fail somehow to see the same in Serbia. If I am wrong, do tell me how.

Relity you worte this,

If Serbia continues the policies of the Milosevic regime (i.e. the formation of an ethnically pure Serbian mega-state) through so called "democratic" methods then they will alienate themselves from their neighbors and the EU.

Are you for real? Serbia is the ONLY country there now which has more minorities and is more mixed than all the others put together.

Do tell me how Croatia has more ethnic groups than Serbia and do tell me how Slovenia is more moxed.
While you're at [...]

Read the full comment it do tell me how Kosovo became 90% Albanian.

FYROM and Montenegro do have a large Albanian minority but not much of the rest where Serbia has them all.

South Seria is full of Albanians living in peace. Vojvodina has a large Hunarian minority and there are quite a lot of Croaitans living in Serbia as well. Then we have Roma, Bosnian Muslims and Romanians there.

So you are really talking some rubbish here when you say that Serbia wants to be pure. They would have to expell half of their country and they certainly have not done that. Nowhere else is there such a diversity of different ethnic groups than in Serbia.

Stop with your crap once and for all.

And Serbia DID NOT commit genocide. This is a western invention to have a reason to attack and try to occupy Serbia and bring her to her knees. Yes, American propagana is good, very good, but the rest of the world which is more than America and a few of her lackies do not agree.

Genocide is extermination of a complete race. Do you even know the meaning of that word? That simply did not happen.

Peggy

I am well aware that you are being sarcastic and I was being sarcastic as well. You are free to have your own opinions but as I have stated previously they are simply not backed up by evidence and do not relate to what actually happened in the Balkan wars of the 90s.

The Serbs were the aggressors and they committed genocide.

Now we all have to move on and we can only do this by having the Serbs respect their neighboring countries' territories and their sovereignty. [...]

Read the full comment Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and to some degree Kosovo are independent countries with Serb minorities living in them. Those countries and their institutions have a responsiblity to protect the rights of their Serb minorities. The Serbs have to respect the state institutions of the countries they live in. Serbia has to stop interfering in the internal affairs of their neighbors and has to fully respect their sovereignities. Serbia also has to fully respect the rights of the Albanian, Bosniak, Croat, Bulgarian, Roma, etc. minorities that live in Serbia and has to politically empower them if it wants to improve neighborly relations and enter the EU.

If Serbia continues the policies of the Milosevic regime (i.e. the formation of an ethnically pure Serbian mega-state) through so called "democratic" methods then they will alienate themselves from their neighbors and the EU. Serbia failed to accomplish its disgusting objectives through military means and it certainly will not be able to accomplish them through fake "democratic" or "peaceful" means. Only when Serbia fully respects its neighbors territories and sovereignities can it expect its neighbors to respect and cooperate with Serbia.

Albanian,
I am not sure I understand your post completely, but I think I mentioned earlier - I don't see many good guys in the former YU. The way you treat the Serbs and the way the Serbs attempted to solve their Albanian problem, is repulsive to me.

It seems to me that Tito messed you all up, and I am sorry to say that the tragedies there will continue.
You guys will want half of FYROM - give you a few years. The FYROM-sti want other lands in BG and Greece. [...]

Read the full comment All this is poison. I don't wish anything bad for FYROM. I don't want their land, I just want them to respect the Bulgarians living there, revive the Bulgarian schools and churches that were eradicated under Tito.

The important thing is for all of to get into the EU and stop thinking in these 19 century ways... When we are all in the EU, what does it matter where exactly the border is?

Reality, if my sarcasm seems like a serious post then you have problems.

Perhaps you should check if you live in the real world first, for anyone who doesn't see obvious sarcasm is very delusional indeed.

Perhaps your chep tricks are designed to discredit me. If so, then you are not very smart. Now pick which one applies to you.

to RealityBites - unfortunately the post of Queen of England is currently occupied by Lizzie Two, but I'm sure Peggy's application for the post would be carefully scrutinised !

I didn't mean to suggest Peggy was drunk - apologies if I seemed to do so - but if Australia's entire Test cricket team wears white clothing with the "VB" logo prominently displayed (VB is Victoria Bitter, a lowish-strength lager drunk by the litre in Australia), then she can hardly complain about association with her distinguished fellow-countrymen in the Australian Test Cricket team, for whom VB had [...]

Read the full comment no necessary connection with drunkenness.

Peggy I wouldn't be surprised that you really think you are the Queen of England based on some of the absurd claims you have made and your avoidance of evidence and facts.

To Journalist,

If you are a journalist then I am the queen of England.
You must take me for a fool writing all that rubbish.

At least be honest and tell me you are just another Albanian running your own agenda like the rest of them here.

No listen to me here -.-
We dont give a sh.t about wars ,people understand we wanna get into good economy,good life and lifestyle.
This nationalism is si.ck
Anyways the only way to lightened road i see if Serbia recognizes their mistakes which cant be count,seems.
All history is full of serbian thugs and what the hell you mess with us.
I again vote for Independence Kosovo and all people get in peace and live a bit without war.
Dreams about war su.cks .
get a [...]

Read the full comment love and peace because genociders su.ck

This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

Valeri
What does Macedonia or FYROM better have to do with all this?
We are talking about Kosovo and their right for independence.
FYROM doesnt have right to take land from Bulgaria or Greece because their history is Bulgarian,language,VMRO is bulgarian,flag with sun was seen in first meeting in bulgarian vmro and language is completelty Bulgarian dialect.
So what for you worry so much?
You can be happy because seems came the end to that artificial coutnry FYROM made by TITO and you get Bulgarian land or even if you [...]

Read the full comment dont ,why u mess it with us lol?
greets

i agree with Journalist.
But he didnt add that serbs had war with us too and with all.
i hope these genociders go to prison.
i dont hate anyone because they didnt do anything bad to me personally but if i was in main level of politics i would take the right to serbia to talk.
Serbia is just dreaming and seems serbs have no life.
Wtf they think,world and balkan will fight like in VII century ? should we get knifes and starts World Wars every year?
[...]

Read the full comment No way.
Just cut these dreams and walk with legs on ground.
In pleven an city here in Bulgaria ,i was one of the first who spoke in my highschool where we go for independence of Kosovo, because these people suffered too much from genociders.
And i want Serbia to secure rights for minorities including Bulgarians in Nis who are in big number or we put veto in EU.
greets

Peggy i respect your opinion but you are wrong,and your comments have nothing to do with the truth.
If EU marks 11july as Srebrenica genocide day rememberance ,what you have got to add more?
It tells you everything,the wars whcih serbs started with all neighbours.
1.Slovenia (they lost badly for some days,slovenians had help from germany,austria,usa)
2.Croatia (longer than slovenia but croatian military operation known as ^operation storm^ send serbian depressed army back)
3.Bosnia (Serbs did the worst genocide,ethnic cleaning and massacres after WW2 ,Srebrenica,and more)
4.Kosovo (they [...]

Read the full comment replyed what they did in Bosnia by killing civilians in Kosovo, only 12.000 in 14months.)

And now Kosovo should be part of serbia?
You kiddin or you are out of mind.
Kosovo was never part of serbia,it was part of yugoslavia as all other nations/countries.before yugoslavia it was under ottoman empire. Albanians got more history and life in Kosovo than Albania itself. all the wars with ottoman empire and serbs were made in Kosovo and albanians cannot just give it to Serbia because they want ^Big serbia^.
Im Norwegian journalist and i was in balkan ages 1990-2001,and i saw pretty well what happened there, i just hope all war criminals finish in hague and balkan gets the peace.
But im sure more than sure Serbia will never rule/own Kosovo again as they did in history with lies and falsificating history with naive infos and words.

Epim I suggest you stop being insulting. You are saying that I am a drunk because I couldn't possibly be sober and think this way.

NATO bomber Serbia because Serbia did not agree to allow them access thoughout the whole territory of Serbia. Now that's a FACT and everyone knows it.

BTW EU is not majority of the world unless you live in a very small world.

62 countries have recognized Kosovo. What happened to the other 140 or so? Now that's majority of the world. Do you [...]

Read the full comment know how to count?

The west (US and GB precisely) had their own agenda in the former Yugoslavia and it was to dismember it and take charge of the region.
Humanitarian intervention is almost never done for that reason but for political.

What happened to other parts of the world which qualified for humanitarian intervention? Why hasn't the world (US) intervened there? No profit and no strategic reason.

So please don't try to tell me that this was a matter of justice because any sensible clear thinking person can see it was a matter of politics.
This was no more a matter of justice than the hunt for WMDs in Iraq was a matter of truth.
US has created havoc all around the world for their political and financial gain.
Ever seen a documentary called "The War of Democracy" by John Pilger? Guess not because you only want to check out CNN and the like. So instead of telling me to stop reading Serbian news (which btw I don't) you should turn your attention to other forms of information to get a broader knowledge of what the west actually does around the world.

i agree with the Kosova post ...it is the time for us to change the name to Dardania ,not to have anything to do with the name of some field ,only because the battle of coalition forces again Ottoman Empire ,known as battle of Kosovo

Peggy

The EU marks July 11th as the Srebrenica Genocide rememberance day. The ICTY proclaimed the Srebrenica massacre carried out by the Serbs to have been GENOCIDE. The Bosnian Serbs bombed Sarajevo for nearly four years intentionally targeting civilians and committing countles war-crimes.Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic the political and military leaders of the Bosnian Serbs have both been indicted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. The Serbian president Slobodan Milosevic died in a prison cell charged with having committed war crimes and genocide. NATO bombed Serbia for 70 days in order to stop [...]

Read the full comment them from committing genocide against the Kosovo Albanians. There are hundreds of news reports of Serbs committing war crimes againsts Bosniaks, Croats, and Albanians. And the list goes on...

All these internationally accepted facts just don't seem to be getting through to you. Either you ONLY read Serbian propaganda and are therefore ignorant of the real world or you are simply determined to avoid reality altogether for the comforts of your own fantasy world. Either way your claims are weak and unsubstantiated. They are simply your personal opinions which you are entitled to have. However the rest of the world will go by the facts of what happened based on evidence and will deal with Serbia accordingly.

Peggy - with respect you are wrong when you say:

<<Most of the world believes that all three sides fought each other and all three sides comitted crimes. >>

The EU qualifies as part of "most of the world", and opinion here is pretty united that Serbia was : "The first, the worst, and the last" as regards wartime atrocities. So the crimes committed by Serbia rather outweigh whatever the Croats and Bosnians did.

Besides, NATO finally had to bomb Belgrade into submission to end the war. I [...]

Read the full comment do not recall it doing so with either Zagreb or Sarajevo, let alone Ljubljana (all of whom had soldiers killed by JNA Serb forces.)

I suggest you imbibe a bit less VB (Victoria Bitter, as per the logos emblazoned on all the Australian cricket team) and a bit more common-sense.

Reality, just because you say something is so and your masters in the US say it is so, it doesn't make it so.
Most of the world disagrees with your version. Most of the world believes that all three sides fought each other and all three sides comitted crimes.

You see, my delusional friend, most of the world has not recognized Kosovo and will not for that very reason. They simply don't buy the American and English propaganda. More facts have come out over the years to dispute your GENOCIDE crap.

[...]

Read the full comment /> There was no genocide but there were war crimes. There is a differnece. Yes, Americans and the Brits will call it genocide, but they also said Saddam had WMDs as well and that proved to be a big lie.

So when you convince the rest of the world of your crap I will buy it as well. Until then, I'm not buying any western propaganda.

g, now you are being ridiculous. There is no such race as Kosovars and you know it. Just because you from Albania don't want to be compared to the Albanians in Kosovo is no reason to invent races which don't exist.

In Kosovo we have Sers and Albanians. Yes, they call themselves Albanians and speak Albanian. You know, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
They wave Albanians flags and openly say they are Albanian.
Sorry but they are yours no matter how hard you try to disown them.

Peggy

The Serbs committed GENOCIDE and they are the ONLY side involved in the fighting that were convicted of having committed GENOCIDE. I really don't understand how you keep maintaining that people who were convicted of having committed GENOCIDE are equal to those who didn't. You're claim has been discredited by me and by many others because it's weak and false. It's desperate and unsubstantiated. You are comparing apples and oranges but keep maintaining that they are the same fruit. In your mind they might be the same fruit but in the minds of all rational [...]

Read the full comment people who base their knowledge on their experiences of reality they will never be the same. Only the Serbs have been convicted of having committed GENOCIDE that's a fact that all your impassioned unsubstantiated claims can never change.

I see that Goebble's statement that
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come to believe it"
Is inspiring your thinking please be aware that no matter how many times you keep repeating your unsubstantiated falsehoods it will not change the facts and reality of what happened. Cheers :)

oi peggy, hold on a minute, kosovons ar kosovons not albanians, so don,t say albanians burnt churches and that, cos here in albvania we have lots of churches and we all protect them,not just them but every worship place in albania.

Reality, You talk about burning religious sites etc.

What happened in Kosovo? How many Serbian churches and monasteries have been burned down.
I have seen footage with my own eyes where Albanians are cheering as they are destroying a church.

I have seen footage of inside of churches after Albanians have been through them. Eyes gauged out of saints etc. That is pure hatred and evil.

Don't tell me about hatred and destruction of religious sites. You guys hate churchers that much that you did all [...]

Read the full comment that. I saw a man on top of a church tearing down the cross.
How can you say that you are upset about Serbs but say NOTHING about what the Albanians have done.

I have seen footage made by Canadian soldiers (not MacKenzie himself since you are trying to discredit him) in Medek pocket and what the Crotats have done. That was ethnic cleanising in it's purest form.

I will counter you at every turn because you are only rambling on about what the Serbs did. What di your pals do? I have seen it.

Today in Kosovo the Albanians are still murdering Serbs. We are talking about elderly people and what about those children which were shot and killed at a river? This happened after the war. How can you excuse that?

There are many examples of attrocities committed by all sides so don't come here only condemning one. They are all guilty and you know it.

well im out of this conversation, all you guys what you hear in the news.i would suggest that you all go and read the history again. why the hell should it metter if kosovo was par of albania or serbia,at the end of the day its just an other country.

Peggy

A conventional war in which opposing militaries fight each other is one thing but what the Serbs did in the fighting in the 90s is quite another. They systematically and purposefully targeted non-Serb civilians. They destoryed religious and cultural monuments thereby breaking the rules of war. They renamed the towns they conquered adding the prefix "Serbian-" to them. They raped non-Serb women and tortured them. They set up concentration camps such as the one in Prijedor. They committed ethnic celeansing on a massive scale forcefully expelling hundreds of thousands of civlians from their homes under [...]

Read the full comment the threat of death. They committed Genocide in Bosnia. They targeted civilians in Sarajevo and cut off food and medical supplies to the city's residents for nearly four years.

The Serbs did not fight a war of defense or a conventional war of conquest. They fought a dirty inhumane war of ethnic cleansing and genocide. One in which innocent defenseles civilians were the primary targets. I'm sorry for you Peggy because you are swimming against a very large and strong river of internationally accepted evidence and facts that is sweeping all of your weak rguments to the side. We are not talking about ancient history here we're talking about events that took place a little more then a decade ago and which are all well documented. The verdict is in and the Serbs have been found guilty. They can refuse to accept that verdict but the rest of the world will hold firm to it. Eventually the Serbs will have to come to terms with the disasterous policy of the Serbian state in the 90s. Once they do others will be able to forgive but they will never forget. If the Serbs don't come to therms with their ignoble recent past then they will face stern opposition everywhere they turn. This state of being rejected by all of your neighbors and the international community will not be in Serbia's best interest.

The Serbian nation needs to come to terms with the crimes that were committed in its name, apologize, and make amends. That is the only sensible way forward for Serbia and its people.

Peggy

Didn't Serbia militarily conquer Kosovo in 1912? You are aware of the fact that for 500 years Kosovo was a semi-independent province of the Ottoman empire which was NOT ruled by Serbia. Of course Kosovo was part of the medieval Serbian state but then again Vojvodina was ruled from Hungary before Serbia militarily conquered it and settled it with Serbs. Before WWII Vojvodina was in no way shape or form part of Serbia and after WWII the Serbs conquered the land that was being evicted by ethnic Germans and Hungarians that used to live there. [...]

Read the full comment After militarily conquering Vojvodina the Serbian authorities started settling Serbs from Serbia, Croatia, and Bosnia to live in Vojvodina so that it could become "Serb land". What about the Sandzak region Peggy? Before the Congress of Berlin in 1878 the Sandzak region used to belong to Bosnia and was not part of the Serbian state. Even today the majority of people living in the Sandzak region are ethnic Bosniaks.

More then half of Serbia's current territory was conquered by Serbia in various wars and was intensively settled by Serbs in order to make it "Serbian land". Of course the Serbs never talk about that part of their history because they don't appear as victims. And the Serbs must always be the victims in their own little perverse version of history.

Peggy the Serbs committed GENOCIDE. No other peoples involved in the fighting in the 90s committed such a henious crime, only the Serbs did. How can you equate a nation that committed genocide to a nation that didn't? You simply can't unless you are willing to completely forget reality and facts.

Peggy, the Serbs need to accept their guilt and their involvement in the genocide and ethnic celansing that their military perpetrated in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosovo. Nobody can hold the Serbian people accountable for the crimes that were committed but the Serbian state was culpable and it needs to make amends for the crimes committed in Serbia's name. If Serbia choses to forget history in the hopes that other peoples will do the same then they are sorely mistaken. All of Serbia's neighbors will remember what the Serbs did to them and they will not forgive them util the Serbs apologize and make amends.

g, show me a map which shows Kosovo as part of Albania any time in history.
WW1 started in the Balkans yes, but what has that got to do with what is going on now?

I have a question for you.

When all three sides agreed and signed the agreement on what was going to happen in Bosnia why did Izetbegovic take his siganture back after US told him to do it?

Who do you think wanted war then and what was war going to bring [...]

Read the full comment them?
When the Serb got killed for no other reason than waving a Serbian flag at his son's wedding it was enough to tell the other Serbs who was going to take charge. Bosnia was never a Muslim country so why should Izetbegovic get to rule it?

pegy, you talk some shit man, what are you saying tha the war in bosnia started just cos a serb was murdered?that was an exuse, do you know where and why dit the 1 and 2 warld wars started? and you can,t say kosovo was,t part of albania, cos im sure it wasen,t part of serbia ither.you know what you guys just talk some c...

Don't forget reality, that the first casualty in Bosnia was a Serb.
Now who fired the first shot and why?

This Serb was only attending his son't wedding. What provocation!!
His only crime was being a Serb and you want us to belive that the Muslims were attacked.

Go away.

Oh reality, you certainly have verbal you know what.

Simple fact. Nobody has the right to take and rule over Serbian territories. End of story.

Leave Kosovo alone. It is not Albanian and never was. Just because you have become the majority there through illegal immigration and an extremely high birth rate it doesn't make it yours any more than the Muslim ghettos of France and England.

No, I would not expect Jews to apologize to the Nazis. What the hell are you talking bout here? Putting more [...]

Read the full comment words in my mouth. The Jews were victims of agression where the Bosnian Muslims and Croats were equal agressors and part of a civil war.

Like I said, all three sides have blood on their hands and you cannot change that by trying to put words in my mouth.

realitybites, get over it man,ofcourse there will be serbs that suporte milloshevic,but you get albanians suporting enver hoxha, im albanian and enver hoxha was the worst tictator that europe has ever had and on the other hand some albanian still like him, there is germans that like hitler.we can,t say we dont like the serbs because it wasn,t there decisions 2 go 2 war with those countries,what about turkey in albania? they stayed 500 yrs how comes there is no hate over there? just get over it realitybites.leave serbia, kosovo and bosnia in their peace

You wouldn't expect the Jews who fought in the Warsaw Uprising to apologize for fighting their NAZI executioners and you shouldn't expect the Bosniaks, Croats, and Albanians to apologize to their Serbian executioners. As I've said before those individuals who are found guilty of having committed crimes against Serbian civilians need to be punished for the war crimes they committed. However the states of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo were fighting defensive wars against callous and genocidal Serbian military and paramilitary formations whose goal was the murder and forced removal of all non-Serb citizens and the theft of their [...]

Read the full comment sovereign territory. There will be no apologies Peggy because there is nothing to apologize for.

The Serbian leadership started four consecutive conflicts and chose to use ethnic cleansing and genocide as tools in their aggression. They knew the rewards of winning and they should have thought about the consequences of losing. They lost Peggy and as happened to the NAZIs once you lose a war that you started it is time for you to make concessions, kiss feet, and apologize and hope for minimal punishment from you victorious opponents. Serbia had to lose Kosovo after failing in its attempt to ethnically cleanse all Albanians living there. Serbia also had to lose the Hrvatska Krajina after attempting to ethnically cleanse all Croatians living there. Serbia should consider itself lucky that those are the only concessions it had to make considering how grave and detestable their crimes were.

Serbia is simply not in a position to make any demands or play any games. It spent all of its energy on the wars in the 90s and now it is a paper tiger able to make noise but quite feeble in ever other regard. It has to recognize the crimes that were committed by the state, has to apologize for them, and it has to make amends. Only then can Serbia be welcomed back as a "normal" state in Europe.

Peggy

If Serbs want to live in peace with other peoples in the Balkans then they are more then welcome to that. There are many wonderful Serbian individuals who have acknowledged their country's guilt in the wars that took place in the 90s and want to make amends and initiate reconciliation. There are however many other Serbs who still support monsters like Mladic and who do not recognize the genocide that the Serbs committed. These people only lead to further destabilization in the Balkans since denial of a crime is justification of a crime and no [...]

Read the full comment normal human being can ever justify the genocide and ethnic cleansing that the Serbs committed in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo.

Serbia has to realize that its neighbors have inviolable borders and are sovereign states that want to be treated with respect by the Serbian government including it's lower level officials. If Serbia does not learn from its costly mistakes then it will have to keep getting its lessons from NATO and the armies of its neighboring countries.

The Serbian people living in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo are citizens of those countries and they have a right to demand equal rights as all other citizens nothing less and nothing more. The idea of Serbs having some kind of autonomous provinces within sovereign states is ridiculous and they need to forget about it. If Serbia continues its expansionist policies then there will be a strong backlash by its neighbors, the EU, and NATO and Serbia will only go back to where it was ten years ago- an isolated pariah state whose territory is shrinking. If however Serbia chooses to be satisfied within its current borders and turns towards developing itself as a peaceful, respectful, and tolerant state then there is definitively a place for it in the Balkan and European communities. Serbia has to choose and stay consistent in its choice because as the saying goes "once bitten twice shy". If Serbia ever returns to ultra-nationalist policies the international community will quickly turn against it because we all know the terrible consequences of having a belligerent fascist government in Serbia go unchecked.

hey boys ain,t you bored of war yet? i said yesterday that every body lived in armony in the past, why don,t you try to do the same thing again?listen up, im not mother teresa in here, but im getting bored of your comments non of you is making sense,every 1 is saying what they like to hear give it up for gods sake.

Serbia, no point in talking to the Albanians and Croats on this site.
They know wht they did too but will not acknowledge it.

They know their own is guilty of horrible crimes against the Serbs but as far as they are concerned they don't care. All they care about is trashing Serbs.
The world is waking up and seeing the truth slowly but they will continue to peddle their version of events till the day they die.

The truth doesn't serve them well, so they have to [...]

Read the full comment turn everything around and keep saying that only the Serbs killed and therefore every Serb got what they deserved.

Give up on Serbian enemies. They will always remain that but all you will get is a headache from banging your head against a brick wall.

Don't worry. If the world believed in their version we would have most of the world recgonizing Kosovo. Instead we have most of the world against it. That tells you a lot.

Let them suffer with their crap. They can have each other.

What everyone needs to look at is the history of Serbia and Kosovo. Kosovo is considered the heart of Serbian culture. Before Belgrade was given to Serbia, Kosovo was the center of Serbia. It went from being predominately Serbian to predominately Albanian, because Serbians were forced out.

Also, almost everyone judges Serbia based on Milosevic and his regime, but don't realize he did not have the support of the entire country.

This past summer, I visited Zadar and had to cut my vacation short and head back to Serbia due to the [...]

Read the full comment nationalist in Zadar. On the bus back to Serbia, there were banners to inform people of a celebration. Each year they celebrate the day they ethnically cleansed Croatia of Serbs.

Yes, Serbia, also, committed unspeakable crimes, but every country in the Balkans did the same if not worse to Serbia. So grab some history books on each war and read the Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Albanian and American versions on each war. You will find each country has a different twist on each war.

Peggy there is absolutely no proof that Serbs living in Bosnia and Croatia were ever in any danger during the break-up of Yugoslavia. As you might recal the break up was done politically without any violence. Bosnia held a referendum in 1992 in which all Bosnian citizens were free to vote on wether they wanted Bosnia to become an independent country. In that referrendum 66% of voters approved of Bosnia's independence and that is why the UN recognized Bosnia as an independent state in 92. At the time Bosnia become independent there were Bosnian Serb, Bosnian Croat, and Bosniak parties [...]

Read the full comment in the national parliament. Nobody ever threatened the political rights or the physical existance of the Serbs. In fourteen years of investigating the causes and events leading up to the war nobody has ever produced any evidence that the Serbs were threatened in any way.

However what the Serbs didn't want is to be a minority. They wanted to have power and did not want to have to share any of their political power or territory with non-Serbs hence the idea of forming an ethnically pure Serbian "Truncated Yugoslavia" (i.e. a Greater Serbian state in which all Serbian people living in the balkans would live in the same state ruled from Belgrade). Obviously to form such a state they would have to destroy the existing states of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia and they would have to regain complete control of Kosovo, Vojvodina, and Montenegro. To form that pure Serbian megastate they also had to murder or forcefully remove all non-Serbs living on the territory that the Serbs wanted for themselves and that is why the ethnic cleansing in the Bosanska Krajina, Hrvatska Krajina, Eastern Bosnia, and Kosovo occurded and that is why the Srebrenica Genocide happened. Along with removing the people living on the land the Serbs wanted to completely remove any historical trace of non-Serbs ever having lived on that land and prevent them from ever returning to their homes. That is why for example all 16 of Banja Luka's mosques, including the UNESCO protected Ferhadija Mosque built in the 16th century, were demolished by the Bosnian Serb authorities.

The list of crimes committed by the Serbs is nearly endless but what is important is that all these crimes were committed not at random but in a planed out and well orchestrated maner in accordance to the Serbian nationalist fascist ideology of forming an ethnically pure "Greater Serbian State" much the same way that the NAZIs wanted to form an ethnically pure German state where the german people would have their required "lebensraum". The NAZIs failed in creating their fascist state as did the Serbs and in both cases the world is better for having defeated the fascist hateful ideologies of Hitler and Milosevic.

Peggy

Go to the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC and look for the Srebrencia Genocide section in that museum which the upstanding currators have created to raise awareness of the Srebrenica Genocide.

What on earth makes you think the Jews would be insulted by the world labeling what happened in Bosnia as a genocide which it was. It is Jewsih pioneers like Raphael Lemkin that made Genocide a crime by international law and the world owes a great debt to the Jewish people for having made genocide a crime by international [...]

Read the full comment law and for having the UN charger make it obligitory for the international community to intervene in conflicts in which genocide is suspected or proven to be taking place. It was great Jewish politicians like Madeline Albright who worked hard to put an end to the ethnic cleansing and genocide that the Serbs were committing. I can asure you that no Jewish person will be insulted for the world labeling the Srebencia massacre a Gencoide since that is simply calling it by its proper name according to international law.

Sorry, Peggy , let me remind you of your own words:

<<Reality, nobody is arguing that ethnic cleansing did not happen and was not done by the Serbs, but what I am saying is that all three sides are guilty of the same thing.>>

Furthermore, you also said:

<< Nazi Croatians and Nazi Muslims from Bosnia. They have desplayed that they have not given up the Nazi ideology and symbols when they tried to secede from Yugoslavia.>>

I must admit to having gone round [...]

Read the full comment Zagreb and Sarajevo in 1998 without seeing one Fascist symbol anywhere, not even the Hungarian Arrow Cross (I know my symbols; maybe you don't). The only such symbol I saw was in Ljubljana, Slovenia, where it was used ironically in the window of a record shop to promote the German band "Ramstein".

So, in short, I respectfully submit that in this respect you are talking a right lot of old "bollocks", to quote your Australian cricket captain in London today when he lost the Ashes (and he, unlike you, had some justification !)

RealityBites - I agree with the main thrust of your argument, though the Croats had their moments of vengeance too. However, that does not excuse the Serbian air force 'strafing' (low-level flying and shooting at the ground) the main Zagreb food market full of women shoppers in 1991 (I heard personal testimony of this), nor does it excuse the Serbian destruction of the entire town of Vukovar, which again I personally witnessed shortly after the event. The insultingly rude words chalked and painted on the ruined walls were luckily illegible to my Croatian hosts, but I can read Cyrillic letters [...]

Read the full comment perfectly well, and this was Serbian triumphalism of the worst sort. I shall not mention the enormous mass graves of Croatian civilians around Vukovar....... but they didn't die by suicide.

Enough is enough, maybe. I am sure you understand my point, and I hope Peggy does too.

Reality, you really are delusional or just plain liar.
Where did I say that I think that Jews and Poles are equally as guilty in WW2.
Please don't mix apples with oranges. All I said is that if you say that what happened in Bosnia is genocide then you are insulting the Jews.

Now what happened in former Yugoslavia is a completely different thing but has one similarity. Nazi Croatians and Nazi Muslims from Bosnia. They have desplayed that they have not given up the Nazi ideology and symbols when they tried [...]

Read the full comment to secede from Yugoslavia.

Serbs from those areas were fighting for their existance and the right to live on their own land. The Croats and Bosnian Muslims started the whole ball rolling and the Serbs reacted.

Did you guys think that you can just walk away with Serbian territories and rule over the Serbs without a fight?
The Jews never started anything but instead were persecuted for being what they are. Much the same as what happened to the Serbs in WW2 and then when Yugoslavia broke up.

It was a civil war. All three sides fought each other, where Poles were invaded and the Jews were being exterminated.

How dare you do you usual Team Albanian tricks and pur words in my mouth.

You are a liar. Do not say what I have not said if you are going to quote me.

Peggy

In your mind the Nazis, the Poles, and the Jews were equally guilty and therefore we should not condemn the Nazis for what they did. Well that's not how it works Peggy. It was the Serbs who had a national policy of committing genocide against their enemies. Look what the Serbs did to the city of Vukovar. They destroyed the entire city, turned it into rubble. Did the Croats destroy a single town in Serbia proper? Did the Bosnians destroy a single town in Serbia proper? Did the Albanians destroy a single town in Serbia [...]

Read the full comment proper? No, Peggy they did not. The Serbs were fighting their wars and committing their crimes in other people's countries-not in their own country. The Serbs shelled Sarajevo for three and a half years and deliberately targeted civilians. Did the Bosnians ever shell Belgrade? How about the Serbian stronghold of Banja Luka? No, Peggy they did not.

In your mind everybody is equally guitly despite the fact that the evidence disproves your hypothesis. Recent statistics on the number of people killed in Bosnia state that 60,000 Bosniaks were killed while only 25000 Serbs wree killed. Does this sound like the Bosniaks and Serbs were equally guilty Peggy? The Serbs were convicted of having committed Genocide while the Bosniaks were not, does this sound like both sides engaged in the same tactics Peggy? The Serbian president Milosevic died in a jail cell as a war criminal while the Bosniak, Croat, and Albanian leadership got to live their lives in peace in their respective countries-does this sound like all political leaders were equally guilty of orchestrating war crimes Peggy?

I dont' know where you got your idea that all sides are equally guilty. Probably because it makes it easier to live witht he crimes that the Serbs committed. There are still many Germans who deny the Holocaust to rid themselves of the national guilt and shame that comes from committing genocide. Well the Serbs joined the Nazis in being the slect few people who have been proven to have committed genocide. They have to live with what they did and atone for it. Arresting all war criminals including Mladic is the first and most important step towards national healing. Denial and justifications for Genocide only prevent healing from occuring and encourage further crimes to be committed.

Peggy

You are trying to say that all sides invlolved in the fighting were equally guilty of starthing the war and committing war crimes which simply isn't true.

It has been shown beyond doubt that it was the Serbian leadership in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo who had a plan to ethnically cleanse areas with Serbian populations of non-Serbs in order to create a "truncated Yugoslavia" (i.e. "Greater Serbia") where all Serbian people could live in the same country. To get rid of the non-Serbs who lived on the territory that the [...]

Read the full comment Serbs covetted the Serbs would use terror, committ ethnic cleansing, and genocide. They would destroy the cultural heritage of the non-Serbs in oder to convicne them never to return to their homes.

Peggy read the reports given out by the ICTY and see for yourself what the Serbs did.

As I've said Serbs did die in the war but most of those who died were Serbian military or paramilitary personel who were killed by non-Serbs trying to defend themsevles from Serb agression. After all do you expect that people would simply stand quietly while the Serbs raped their women, burned down their houses, mosques, and churches? Do you expect non-Serbs to simply hand their land and the land of their ancesotrs over to the Serbs without a fight?

The analogy I gave you with the Jews and Poles fighting the Nazis in WWII relates to what happened in the Balkans in the 90s. The Serbs were fighting a war of conquest and genocide while the Bosniaks, Croats, and Albanians were fighting a war for survival. You can't condemnt a man who killed a Serb soldier in self-defense to protect himself and his family. Those who committed crimes against Serb civilians on the other hand surely must be punished and many of them have been tried or are being tried in courts in the Hague and in Serbia. Bosnia and Croatia have turned in every single person sought by the Hague while Serbia still hides two war criminals. Mladic is accused of masterminding the Srebrenica genocide and dozens of other war crimes and yet he has lived peacefully in Serbia for the past 14 years. It's a disgrace to the Serbian state and the Serbian people that they are actively aiding and abetting genocidal war criminals like Mladic.

g - the ideal state in which everybody was happy was - IIRC - "Federativna Republika Jugoslavija". But alas, it didn't last.

whats wrong with you people, don,t you understand that this is all politics,serbs, kroats, bosnians and kosovons lived in harmony 4 so many years, they had good economy and there was work 4 everybody,no 1 complaint then. i remember when miloshovic was arrested, hi said about the war, i would like 2 call my witnesses, when asked who were they he said tony blair and allbright the american secretary of state,those 2 contries where saying serbia should be prosecuted 4 what is doing,but on the other hand they where telling milloshevic what to do, so guys why don,t you drop [...]

Read the full comment the war subject and lets start an other subject cos the war subject is getting borin. /which country has got the most beautiful girls in ballcan/

Reality, what the hell are you on?
Read my post again and again until you get it.

I never said that Serbs did not comit any crimes, I said that all three sides did and yes there is footage of all sides doing it. Don't talk to me about camers. There is plenty of footage to show your beloved Albanians and others doing exactly the same.

What about Medek pocket? That never happened? That was not a documented crime?

Get off your high horse and admit [...]

Read the full comment that your side did some horrible things too. Your beloved Ceku was part of that ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Krajina.
Comparing Milosevic to Hitler is an insult to the Jews. Are you seriously going to compare six million killed to what happened in Yugoslavia where all three sides took part in killing?

Listen, I seriously don't want to go in circles with you. You will NEVER admit to your side doing anything wrong where I do admit that Serbs did wrong as well.
That is where we differ. I am willing to acknowledge the crimes comitted by the Serbs while you are choosing to be blind to what your side did.
Got news for you. The world doesn't see MacKenzie and others the same way you do. Get used to it.
You can try to smear him and others all you want but you will never succeed.

Again, for the third time I ask you to post a link to prove your accusation of MacKenzie.

Show me, don't just mouth off. It you can't show me some evidence of where all those people I mentioned have been discrediced, kindly shut up.

Peggy I'd take the word of the BBC (the world's most respected news organization) over that of some douchebag general who is suspected of taking money from Serbian lobby groups.

Who was bombing Sarajevo and targeting civilians living in that city for four years? All three sides? Don't be rediculous there are hundreds of hours of footage of Serb soldiers shelling Sarajevo and targeting hospitals, mosques, and civilian homes.

Peggy the wars we are discussing took place in the 90s. They had video cameras which recorded the violence that was being perpetrated. [...]

Read the full comment The vieos don't lie, we can clearly see the Serbs mercilesly shelling Sarajevo for three and a half years killing over 12000 civilians in the process.

Aren't there videos of the war criminal Mladic and his troops entering Srebrenica and talking to civilians held behind fence wire. And then a few days later a hundred mass graves containing the bodies of 8000 Bosniak men and boys are discovered. Serb soldiers who took part in the genocide have admitted to their roles and have directly implicated Mladic in the genocide.

Peggy the reality of what happened is very obvious you are simply bending over backwards to make the facts go away but they can't be made to go away. The bones of those who were killed tell the truth of what happened and nobody can silence them.

Peggy

Many German Nazis were killed in WWII. The Partisans killed hundreds of Nazis during the fighting that took place in Yugoslavia during WWII. However you can not expect people to assume that the Nazis and the Partizans were equally "bad". The Nazis had the intent of conquering, enslaving, and ethnically cleansing non-Germans while the Partizans wanted to defend themselves from the German onslaught.

In the fighting that took place in the 90s the Serbs had a definite fascist ideology of conquering land and killing or ethnically cleansing all non-Serbs living on [...]

Read the full comment the territory they wanted to conquer. They would murder all the non-Serbs who help positions of power, they gang-raped women including young girls, they destroyed all mosques and catholic churches in the cities and villages they conquered. Their goal was to get rid of the non-Serb population, destory every trace of them ever having lived on that land, and take the land for themselves to form a pure Serbian state.

The other sides involved in the fighting tried to defend themselves from the Serb agression to ensure their survival.

Would you say that the Jews who killed Nazis during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising are as bad as the Nazis that tried to committ genocide against them?

In war people on all sides die, but in the fighting that took place during the break-up of Yugoslavia it is only the Serbs that had a clear NATIONAL POLICY of ethnic cleansing and genocide. It did not happen sporadically or by accident, instead all of the crimes were well planed out in advance and they were meticulously orchestrated and perpetrated. That is why the Serbs have been faulted for the brutal violence that took place in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosovo- because only they had a clear nationalist policy of killing non-Serb civilians, destroying their cultural treasures, and committing genocide.

All the evidence that has been collected since the end of the war have painted a clear picture Serbia's plan to create an ethnically pure "Greater Serbian State" by ethnically cleansing all non-Serbs living on the territory that was to be part of that ethnically pure state.

Reality, nobody is arguing that ethnic cleansing did not happen and was not done by the Serbs, but what I am saying is that all three sides are guilty of the same thing.

MacKenzie is not saying that Serbs are innocent, but he is also saying that the others have a lot to answer for as well. He said that if all sides stopped shelling their own we might have a chance.

All three sides. What about this don't you get?

Again, please point me to a link [...]

Read the full comment where MacKenzie was discredited. You can't, can you? If you could you would give some evidence and examples of what you are saying.
You are trying to discredit all the people I talk about but nowhere is any proof of them being considered whack jobs. That is only YOUR opinion.

CNN, BBC Fox etc. are all regurgetating the same piece of news. They don't bother to investigate but use each other's footage and commentary. What is reputable about that?

I saw the news here in Australia where they were suposedly showing a Muslim funeral and commenting how sad it was that those people had to go through the trauma. Guess what genious? The funeral they were showing was one where they were carrying crosses with cyrillic writing on them. They used footage of a Serbian funeral to try to peddle their crap. I rang the producer and asked him if Muslims had crosses. He realized what they had just shown was rubbish.

How much more rubbish mixed with truth was shown in order to peddle the propaganda for the west?

At least there are people out there brave enough to speak out. You would love to silence them but bad luck for you that these people are NOT discredited in the wolrd. If they are feel free to point where and send me a link.

The reality is that their opinions mean as much as mine or yours-not much. If their opinions mattered then Kosovo would not have gotten its independence. Since Kosovo did get its independence despite all of your "experts" baseless babble it means that their opinions don't mean much to those in power who make the important decisions.

I forgot the mention the New York Times and other respected newspapers and magazines that have also reported on the ethnic cleansing and genocide that Serbs orchestrated and perpetrated.

All the people you named are well outside of the main-stream in their respective fields and speak only for themselves. Sure MacKinsey says certain things but what about the Canadian government? The Canadian Government will fully back the fact that Serbia's president Milosevic and Bosnian Serb leaders Karadzic and Mladic are war criminals responsible for the ethnic cleansing and genocide that were committed by the Serbs in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo. What individual scholars, especially those considered outsiders by their peers, say may be interesting to read from time to time but unless they can convince their peers of their [...]

Read the full comment peers their opinions will not be taken seriously by serious scholars. And its not must CNN Peggy, it's also ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC, FoxNews, etc. Pretty much all respected news outlets and NGOs in the world have reported on the ethnic cleansings, war crimes, and genocide that the Serbs committed in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo in the 90s. The reason for that is simple, all the evidence points to the Serbs being the main orchestrators and perpetrators of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Epamidanas wrote,

"Separately and secondly, I receive news updates from the Croatian community in London that do not accord at all with what you, Peggy, are saying.


Duh, naturally the Croatain community updates would be different. Try getting some Serbian ones then and compare.

I see that it doesn't matter how many articles by different people are written about what happened that contradicts CNN and like you will always choose to believe CNN etc because you like most of us are biased.

[...]

Read the full comment Realitybites, you too will procalim anyone who disagrees with your "reality" is a nut job. I guess even if God said it you would proclaim him a nut job.

I have given you plenty of credible names which you have managed to smear. Good thing is that you are basically a nobody compared to them so your opinion is worth squat compared to theirs. Now that's reality.

The Serbian people have the country of Serbia and that's more then enough to accomodate them. No more "Greater Serbia" through ethnic cleansing and genocide. The Serb minorities that live in countries bordering Serbia need to learn how to live peacefully in those countries. If they don't want to live in Bosnia or Croatia then they should move to Serbia where they can fully live the Serbian lifestyle they desire. Same goes for the Albanians and other ethnic groups living in the Balkans. The current borders of countries are cemented in stone and won't change except if there was a [...]

Read the full comment big war in the region which I hope there won't be. People need to love the countries they live in and contribute to making those countries more proseperous and democratic so as to benefit all citizens of that country regardless of their ethnicity or religious affiliation.

Marcus Tanner is currently editor of the London "Daily Telegraph", but before that travelled very widely in Eastern Europe. Here's what he says:

Bosnian's Muslims are outraged, insisting that the Bosnian Serbs must never be rewarded for the massacres they perpetrated in the 1990s with a state. The Serbs retort that they have a right to national self-determination. Europe says they don't – Kosovo was an exception. The Serbs say it wasn't. In short, it's a mess.
Europe has no strategy for Bosnia; no fall-back plan. Mr Hague wants more outside intervention. But Bosnia [...]

Read the full comment has seen enough of that to last a lifetime. Ever since the three-way war in the former Yugoslav republic ended in 1995, the weakest of the post-Yugoslav states has been on the equivalent of an international operating table, receiving regular blood transfusions, implants and bypasses.
One problem is the ill thought-out framework forced on the country at the Dayton Ohio talks in 1995, largely at the behest of Bill Clinton's envoy, Richard Holbrooke. Washington wanted a quick end to a foul war and had little time for nitpicking Europeans with their heavy tomes of Balkan history and complex ethnic maps.
Holbrooke engineered the sudden division of Bosnia into two federal "entities". The larger one, containing Sarajevo, was broadly Muslim, the smaller one mainly Serbian. The idea was for the bigger of the two to act as a focus of national unity, slowly drawing the smaller into its orbit.
It never happened. Since 1995, it is the bigger entity that has lost its way, economically and politically. The Serbian Republic, as the other entity is known, has sharpened up its act and become increasingly self-confident. Sarajevo did not become the capital of all Bosnians, as the peacemakers of 1995 intended. It dwindled, becoming an almost totally Muslim environment.
The partiality that the international governors of Bosnia since 1995 have shown towards the Muslims has not helped them much. Unable to forget the palmy days of Lord Ashdown's rule, when obstreperous Serb and Croat politicians were humbled, dismissed and banned, they yearn for the West to "intervene" in the same way and on the same scale.
Perhaps they will get their way. In which case, expect more governors-general masquerading as mediators, more minute supervision of village rows, more dismissals of annoying Serbs and Croats; and more aid money poured into the back hole of Bosnia's corrupt finances.
The problem with this strategy is that there is no exit from such a state of affairs. Bosnia then loses even the appearance of statehood and becomes an official protectorate. Its hopes of joining the EU, feeble as they are, vanish entirely. Brussels is not interested in taking on an ailing international trusteeship.
Years of outside diktats and decrees have nurtured an infantilised political culture, in which politicians can afford to sound extreme because they so rarely have to assume real responsibility for their inflammatory words. They mouth off any way they feel, knowing that "Brussels", "the west", or "the Americans" will have the last word. And sign another cheque.
In hindsight, the 1995 constitution was a mistake, enshrining Bosnia's ethnic divisions, and in the most bizarre and unsatisfactory way. The two entities have not dissolved. On the contrary, the entities have grown arms and legs – the Serbian one in particular. Too late to do much about that now – we have to live with the consequences of Mr Holbrooke's hasty deal.
In the meantime, while flatly ruling out the chances of anyone ever recognising a Bosnian Serb state – not even Belgrade seems interested in that eventuality – Europeans should stop dangling vague promises of yet more "intervention" in front of the permanently aggrieved Muslims. Bosnia will never be Switzerland. The country's DNA won't allow it.
Each of the three communities is pretty much outraged by the other two for a host of reasons that date back at least half a millennium, and each can quote chapter and verse on this their favourite subject to anyone they can prevail upon to listen. The best that we can hope for is a "Balkan Belgium" – an admittedly loveless arrangement, born out of geopolitical necessity and which staggers on, after a fashion. But we won't get there by endlessly micromanaging the situation. The Bosnians need to be told to do it on their own.

Marcus Tanner's books include "Ticket to Latvia, via Lithuania, Poland, Russia, and former East Germany".

g...you're the only one who makes any sense. We can finger point all we want, the problem is everyone wants theirs even inside other borders. We are seeing it arise again in the Presevo valley within Serbia. Look, if you live there, learn the Serbian language and adapt to their cultures. If you don't want to, move. Otherwise we should all live in harmony. Any Serbs living within Albania or other countries must also adapt. I live in the US and adapted. More than anything, we are 95% similar. It shows, we are all stubborn and hard headed, yet we [...]

Read the full comment are all a warm and open people. It's amazing how that 5% difference over powers the 95% common.

im albanian myselve, and i wouldn,t give a shit if i had to live i serbia with serbs, i,ve been leaving in london with all the world,so i can,t see a reason why you guys argue 4.

why do you guys bother who takes who,does it realy matter if you lived in albania or serbia they are both in europe so just enjoy leaving while you can and stop acting like kids.

Epamidonas...are you serious? The Croatian community doesn't agree? Really? Wow, great source. Let me see if Al-Qaida has anything bad to say about Jews or Americans.

Reality Bites, any clue as to what caused a crackdown on the Albanian population? I know, Milosevic woke up one morning and for no good reason decided to do it. There were no aspirations of a Greater Albania. Tito never had to crack down on them in the 60's from their Greater Albania aspiration. Jesus, it shows in the very posts here just what the Albanians want. Greater Albania from [...]

Read the full comment parts of Macedonia, Greece, Montenegro, and take Kosovo to make a Greater Albania. Well how can you claim innocence?

Also, you make bold claims of weak Serbs...are these the weak Serbs Albanians got their butts kicked by so they cried all over TV until NATO came? Can't fight your own battles, but talk tough when others do your dirty work.

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Peggy - I must admit that, having read through all these interesting posts, I agree with RealityBites and with Valeri rather than with yourself. (Except that I have an amicable disagreement with Valeri about his omission of Slovene involvement in the Partisan movement in Jugoslavia, and subsequently.)

Separately and secondly, I receive news updates from the Croatian community in London that do not accord at all with what you, Peggy, are saying.

Thirdly, I have personally visited the mass graves ("bratskiy mogili" in Russian) in Vukovar and elsewhere in Croatia, and I [...]

Read the full comment have read the Serbian graffiti "Kill All Croats" still written on walls there. (As a Russian-speaker I can unfortunately read Serbian !) If you don't call mass graves "genocide", what do you need to prove it. Concentration camps and gas chambers ?

Since you are based in Australia, as you say, you might find a European vacation very instructive. Especially in former Jugoslavia - start off in Slovenia (with the new memorials to the Domobranci Home Guard murdered by the Partisans after the War), and then move southwards through Knin and Vukovar......

There are plenty of nut jobs denying reality in the world. You will find thousands of "articles" writen about UFOs and BigFoot. Sure anything is possible but the greater community of scholars and their concensus opinion regarding matters is really what counts. In the scientific community there are still people who doubt certain proven facts and propose opposing theories, however they are considered fringe members of the community and nobody takes them seriously. The people you listed are fringe group members of their respective communities. Chomsky and MacKenzie are private individuals who have certain opinions and that's fine. The overall [...]

Read the full comment community in the US and Eruope is adamant that it was the Serbs who committed ethnic cleansing and genocide during the break up of the former Yugoslavia. Those ghastly methods were part of a Serbian fascist ideology to create an ethnically pure "Greater Serbian" state. Milosevic was a key proponent of that idology as was Karadzic. Milosevic died in prison as a criminal and Karadzic is currently in prison facing charges of war crimes and genocide. The overall community is clear on its opinions and beliefs, the fringe members can say what they please and interpret reality as they please it doesn't matter really unless they can prove any of their oulandish claims with evidience that other professionals will find credible and convincing.

Considering that over a decade has passed since the wars broke out and the majority of scholars still blame the Serbs and have foud ample evidence to back up their claims I would say that the fringe hroup members (i.e. outsiders) have not been able to convince their peers and their ideas can justifiably be discredited.

To reality bites,

Well I see that anyone who says anything contrary to popular propaganda is discredited or labelled unreliable etc.

Can you point me to some link where I can see for myself that general Mackenzie has been discredited?

I would like to see this for myself because I have heard nothing about that.
BTW Wesley Clark was not there in command of the UN but MacKenzie was so who would know better?

What about Gregory Clark? Is he discredited too [...]

Read the full comment or a nut job?

Here is what he had to say,

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20070702gc.html

Please do read this and tell me what you think. I would love to see how you will try to discredit this man.

Scott Taylor and Jemes Bissett are also saying something completely different to what you are saying.
Are they to be discredited too?

But for now, do take a look at the article and let me know how Gregory Clark is deluded.

Peggy

General MacKanzie is a Serbian lobby lap-dog. He has been discredited beyond recovery. I'd rather listen to general Wesley Clark who was top of his class in West Point ;)

Serbian propaganda has fallen flat on its face ever since their ethnic cleansing and genocide were exposed by intrepid and trustworthy journalists and forensic investigators. Oh let's not forget the hundreds of mass graves that have been found all over Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosovo in which the innocent victims of Serbia's aggression were dumped.

Physical evidence, trustworthy [...]

Read the full comment investigators, and thousands of eye-witnesses are simply much more convincing then baseless Serbian propaganda.

Even Milosevic would today admit that he was a stupid douchebag when he got Serbia to start three wars that it lost and he got the whole world to consider Serbian people as a barbaric genocidal tribe.

Valeri, I see that you are ready to trash anyone who doesn't condemn the Serbs.
So you think you have discredited Chomsky and Pilger.
What do you say about General MacKenzie the? Is he also someone who is a whacko and cannot be trusted?
What about Gregory Clark or Scott Taylor?

What about Janes Bissett? Are you ready to tell me that all these people who do back up Serbs are also nut jobs?

Perhaps you are more informed and credbile than Chomsky and Pilger and [...]

Read the full comment perhaps you should write books, articles and travel the world holding speeches to which many turn up. Yes, I have heard Pilger speak here in Melbourne and just because he doesn't agree with some things that Australian government does, does not make him a traitor to his country. What's wrong with questioning your government and holding them accountanble? Same for Chomsky who BTW is quoted and his works used as example (good examples) in university lectures on international relations.

If you know more, then I look forward to seeing your work being held as a positive example in this subject.

Have you even bothered to read anything by some of these people?

Try reading this for starters.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger20.html

If you don't respect Pilger then perhaps you might respect the worlds of General MacKenzie here.

As far as discrediting Chavez or whoever American sees as bad I would not. Someone like Clinton or Bush sr or jr telling me someone else is bad is a joke.
Take a look at who is talking before you believe them. The same goes for any American administration after WW2. More corrupt government you could not get and they have the audacitiy to call others bad.

I'll make up my own mind about people and definately won't listen to any American administration recommending or condeming someone.

Serbia would never have lost Kosovo had Milosevic not tried to commit ethnic cleansing against the Albanians living in Kosovo. He is the one who caused the international community to intervene on the Albanians side to prevent the Serbs from carrying out another genocide.

I just wish that Milosevic had been alive to see Kosovo become a free and independent country since it is he who most contributed to Kosovo's independence.

Milosevic = Unwitting Liberator of Kosovo

Serbs who voted for their "hero" Milosevic were duped. But it [...]

Read the full comment is their own fault since they chose to place their trust in a dimwitted genocidal maniac.

Peggy

The International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia knows what Genocide is much better then you. It is obvious that you are not informed in international law and therefore should read up on it. THE SERBS COMMITTED GENOCIDE IN BOSNIA. That has been proven beyond doubt. You can deny it or justify it as much as you want it won't make any difference. Keep sipping your Serb Propaganda Cool Aid ! Educated people know that it's all propaganda and lies. Read up on facts and international law before making outlandish statements you can't back up. [...]

Read the full comment

Peggy,
".. but also you Valeri as you don't want to see or hear anything which contradicts your perfectly accepted version."

What version is that Peggy? I never said who killed more of whom, nor have I mentioned words like genocide. You haven't read my posts very carefully.

I think that the Albanians are bad news - I was very angry to see the US bomb the Serbs because of them. On the other hand, the Serbs could've been more realistic with the settlement of the land. The Serbs believed [...]

Read the full comment their own mythology, of being a maverick state, that stands up to big powers and wins. What they forget is that in both WW wars they were beaten badly, and it was their side that carried the day, not them in particular. Serbia has no clue that they are just another insignificant Balkan country, like us, and got in a heap of trouble because of it.

Had they been more realistic, and work out a compromise, combined with some population exchange, perhaps they could've kept large part of Kosovo, inhabited with 99% Serbs, and leave 60% of the land for the Albanians, who are a fact of life there, as much as the Serbs are in denial of that...

Alas, but no! They had to want the whole thing and kick ALL of the Albanians out, and incur the wrath of the world.

Peggy, no European would naturally take Muslim side against fellow European Christians. The Serbs with their amateur politics, succeeded in embarrassing the EU by doing things undoable in Europe so close to the 21st century. I am not talking genocide, I am talking land wars, straight out of the 19th century...



As far as the sources - Noam Chomsky is a rebellious Jew, who is much more interested in embarrassing his own country - the US, than in any factual analysis about a place he wouldn't thought of in a million years had the US never got involved..

He started his intellectual life as an Anarchist, transitioned to a Communist and established himself as "an American dissident" long before he ever heard of Kosovo. He is precisely the person you go to, if you wanna read things that would justify your feelings.

The same with John Pilger - another lefty with a major beef against his own society (Australia) for whatever reason. His dissident career started during the Vietnam war and he's never progressed from there. Last time I heard he was standing up for Hugo Chavez - another brilliant example of unbiased world outlook...

Valeri, I have been reading your posts and I can see that you are quite an anti Serb so your bias has obviously stopped you from getting information from sources you don't like.

Reality bites, again I ask, do you know what genocide really is? What happened in Bosnia was not genocide. Genocide is an attempt to exterminate an entire race. As you can see Srebrenica does not qualify as an entire race.

If you took one example of heavy losses then you have to take similar examples everywhere else.
[...]

Read the full comment Like I said, Serbs were not the only ones killing Croats and Muslims.

Corats killed many Muslims as well, Muslims killed Muslims too. You cannot chalk up all Muslim deaths to Serbs only. All three sides fought against each other.

I know that the word genocide is thrown around for political and propaganda purposes but what happened in Bosnia was not.

Do read something written by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, General Lewis Mackenzie (who was there in command), Gregory Clark or Scott Taylor, just to name a few.
I can guarantee you that you will not get the same version as you would like to portray here.

I know you won't bother, especially the Albanians here but also you Valeri as you don't want to see or hear anything which contradicts your perfectly accepted version.

and i can care less about your opinions

people invaded our lands claiming they've been there for 1000 years...meanwhile the land of dardania (albanian for "land of the pears") has been dating back since before christ

(sticking out my toungue)
na na na na na
deal with it serbia
u had a land and u couldn't control it (ala) croatia, montenegro, macedonia

serbs are lucky we EVEN thought of you to put a 6th star on our flag

[...]

Read the full comment losers!

Peggy,
the Serbs did it to themselves.
They elected ex-Commies, who got them into stupid wars that didn't know how to win.
Victory was made in the world's news room and all the Serbs sent there to make their case, were some inarticulate wooden villagers, with zero personality, who, by sheer mannerism, confirmed the words of the sleek Albanians and Bosnians.

On top of it, looking at the big picture, the Serbs probably had something to do with all that hate against them.


[...]

Read the full comment

Peggy read the report by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia regarding what happened in Srebrenica. The Serbs committed GENOCIDE against the Bosniaks living in that town and also all over Eastern Bosnia. QUIT DENYING GENOCIDE. The top world experts after years of painstakinly collecting data and evidence proclaimed that Genocide occured(quite an obvious conclusion)so your opinion in completely irrelevant. Keep siping that Serbian CoolAid! Cheers!

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hahaha
Seems to me that these albanians are taking the road the serbs took almost two decades ago which left them, well, f*cked.

greater serbia, greater albania, same shieet. Albanian nationality at an all time high , soon theyre going to try establish some control over the region. Nato's gunna say ohh no u dont! boom bang, jebiga, even more defragmentation of south-east of europe

ppl need to get over this s**t! the politics are bull. how about this, why not create a super-state called , i dunno 'united balkan [...]

Read the full comment republic' or something. hmm.. maybe get together, give western europe a bit of a challenge? instead of living off shit all.. it'd be interesting, especially the shock on the faces of bourgeosie, ugly ass white dude politicians. finally a people could get together, get past all the crap, and create something a bit better than what has always been the lowest common denominator.

but why even try, the general level consciousness in this world so unbelieveably poor. as if people could create and sustain something good. they would rather say things like
'The next war will decide who lives in Kosovo'
oo tough guy! you'l be on the front lines yes?

hahaha
Seems to me that these albanians are taking the road the serbs took almost two decades ago which left them, well, f*cked.

greater serbia, greater albania, same shieet. Albanian nationality at an all time high , soon theyre going to try establish some control over the region. Nato's gunna say ohh no u dont! boom bang, jebiga, even more defragmentation of south-east of europe

ppl need to get over this s**t! the politics are bull. how about this, why not create a super-state called , i dunno 'united balkan [...]

Read the full comment republic' or something. hmm.. maybe get together, give western europe a bit of a challenge? instead of living off shit all.. it'd be interesting, especially the shock on the faces of bourgeosie, ugly ass white dude politicians. finally a people could get together, get past all the crap, and create something a bit better than what has always been the lowest common denominator.

but why even try, the general level consciousness in this world so unbelieveably poor. as if people could create and sustain something good. they would rather say things like
'The next war will decide who lives in Kosovo'
oo tough guy! you'l be on the front lines yes?

You losers have all latched on to this "genocide theory" invented by the west.
Do you even know what genocide is?
What happened in former Yugoslavia was a civil war and not genocide. Heavy losses in one area is not considered genocide, otherwise Krajina would be considered genocide as well.

Serbs killed Croats and Muslims. Croats killed Serbs and Muslims and Muslims killed Serbs, Croats and their own Muslims as well.

So when you all talk about numbers and how many dead on each side, think about who [...]

Read the full comment was killing whom?
All three sides were killing each other so you cannot contribute all Crotian and all Muslims deaths to Serbs alone.

So, genocide just is not the right word to use, but it serves the purpose here for all the anti Serb posters.

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This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained не е по темата на статията

Albania and Dardania will unite cheers!

yea its me Rexxy ...hey hey !

History continues and the ghosts of the Balkans have never left and is upon its doorsteps,its just a matter of time for all corrections of past mistakes to be made good and there are plenty upon the Albanian people ..

Two comparisons:

Before WWII Germany was much bigger then today. They started WWII, committed genocide, lost the war and were left with a much smaller country.

In the 90s Serbia was much bigger then today. Then they started the Yugoslav wars, committed genocide, lost the war and were left with a much smaller country.

Hitler = Milosevic

Post-war Germany = Post-war Serbia

Tadic = Douchebag

Lesson #1: Serbians should never have supported the genocidal maniac Milosevic [...]

Read the full comment whom they considered a Serbian hero. They didn't complain when he was killing non-Serbs and stealing their land, but now they're whining that others took their land. Think of ethnic cleansing as a sharp knife that cuts both ways. If you don't know how to use it you will end up cutting yourself deep, that's what happened to the Serbs.

Lesson #2: Since in every war Serbia keeps shrinking they should not start any future wars.

Lesson #3: NATO is closer to Serbia then Russia. NATO is more powerful then Russia. Don't count on Russia's help.

Lesson 4: Don't start a fight you can't win. Don't whine about losing a fight you should never have started to begin with.

Two comparisons:

In WWII Germany was much bigger then today. Then they started WWII, committed genocide, lost the war and were left with a much smaller country.

In the 90s Serbia was much bigger then today. Then they started the Yugoslav wars, committed genocide, lost the war and were left with a much smaller country.

Hitler = Milosevic

Post-war Germany = Post-war Serbia

Lesson: Don't start a fight you can't win. Don't whine about losing a fight you should never [...]

Read the full comment have started to begin with.

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wenn u lock at serbia u cann see hate towards others speciali at albanians must be jelousy 10 milion peaple they dont even have a river to swimme on baken balkans suumers and they are humaliatit all the time of course we will unite kosovo and albania deal dann macedonia and cameria we are working on it

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Macarena,
I was referring to the Kosovar Albanians, as the ones infected with the Serb's malignant variety of nationalism.

I see little difference between them.

Nothing is going to be given, if you want something go and take it... This is to Albanians, stop talking about it, just make it happen... Some counties will not like it, well, you can never make everybody happy , work on this issue before you go public. Serbia has no real say anymore, let them bark but if they bark to hard put the dog to sleep... Albanians please unite together, it does not matter what is on paper, but wants on your sole.

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Valeri:
"Man, the Serbs have done a job on you with their malignant nationalism - you all have contracted their sickness..."

That's such a brainwashed, nationalistic Kosovo Albanian thing to say. Sad.

I think that, once again, Valeri, you are forgetting Slovenia in your global criticism of all former Jugoslav states. To my knowledge, Slovenia has not yet invaded Trieste/Trst (to which it has a genuine claim), not has it done the same to Gorizia/Gorica, nor even to that bit of Istria that Croatia stole from it in the 1950s.

I don't think it's anything to do with being former Jugoslav, but a great deal to do with being Balkan.

alban:

"Kosovo and albania are 1 and we hope we will get together our stolen land, macedonia, montenegro, greece, and kosovo,"

That's funny.

The Makedonians in turn say that they want to unite all of the "Makedonians" by re-taking their land from BG and GR.

What's wrong with you people over in that nightmare called Yugoslavia?

Man, the Serbs have done a job on you with their malignant nationalism - you all have contracted their sickness... for all Bulgarians who [...]

Read the full comment can't stop bitching about their country - look at those guys!

With all the problems, we are probably the only relatively normal people in the area.

Even if Dr Berisha said that, it does not matter. Kosovo and albania are 1 and we hope we will get together our stolen land, macedonia, montenegro, greece, and kosovo, Common Berisha lets get the land back and unite the albanian people for once and for all, let the serbs bargh like a dog. We need greater Albania as once was.

David what are you talking about, first of all the war was not in 1998 but in 1999 and serbia expelled 90% of population a.k.a all Albanians, and Serbia did a massacre not poor Albanians that couldn't even defend themselves, so please get your facts right before you write something

P.S
your statistics are ridiculous

Viva Albania

SERIA IS THE BULLY OF THE BALKANS

The next war will decide who lives in Kosovo.

For all those spouting the legitimacy of Kosovo due to it's majority population, let's not forget in 1998 when Albanians expelled 59% of the Serbian population in Kosovo and led to a flooding of 45% of Albanians into the country. Of course this was with the help of NATO killing roughly 3012 Serbian civilians. When genocide is committed, a vast number of that nationality is expelled from a region. With that being said, how is it Kosovo who had always held a Serb Majority is now 88% Albanian and ONLY 6% SERBIAN?
The genocide atrocities are clear.
[...]

Read the full comment />

Looking at the history and how the countries around the world have evolved! It does make perfectly good sense that populations are different countries are different and therefore inhabit in their respective nations. Why do the albanians of kosovo have to live under a totally different race i.e. slavs.. Therefore, the decleration of Dr Berisha for national unity is a common sense one of which will allow the same people to be governed by one state! Remember, the 21st century is the Albanian century. Greater Albania here we come!

berisha is a politician and as such will lie, cheat & steal to maintain power. that isn't unlike the politicians in belgrade so they shouldn't be whining about strong, provocative language.

KOSOVA does not only have a largely Albanian population, it is a 95% Albanian majority, the majority is in fact larger than that of Bulgarians in Bulgaria.