Russian boy - po chemu govarish ze Rossia budet pomoc Gretskom i Tsypriotskom ?

RUSSIA will help GREECE AND CYPRUS IF THEY GO TO WAR WITH TURKEY OR ANYONE. SO REALLY CYPRUS AND GREECE ARE VERY SAFE BECAUSE RUSSIA WILL STOP ANYONE FROM INVADING THEM!!! RUSSIA LOVES CYPRUS AND GREECE AND WILL ALWAYS HELP THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

to Laughing Out Loud - I wouldn't laugh too much just yet. As I understand it, the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force) operate clandestinely abroad, and they don't have too much of a sense of humour. Especially about a revered Orange "totem" such as LOL....

lol

Further to my last posting, here is a typical website of a real LOL in Northern Ireland:

http://www.ballylanetrueblues.co.uk/11323.html

Nonsense - the expression LOL for Loyal Orange Lodge has been a "protected designation" ever since 1689 with the Battle of the Boyne, and is now protected under WIPO rules. (Somebody is going to sue somebody if you're not careful, if the Apprentice Boys of Derry don't get to you first !)

for all of you that are not familiar with the acronym FYROM, allow me to explain: FYROM is the former Yugoslav republic of macedonia, it is a 3rd world wasteland, more like an eye sore, which is unfortunately located in Europe wedged between Albania and Bulgaria. The acronym "LOL" stands for laughing out loud-that is usually the response people give when FYROM comes up in a discussion. Hope this helped!

to "Fyrom Sucks". You mention LOL, which is the internationally accepted acronym for "LOYAL ORANGE LODGE", originating in Northern Ireland and now widespread in USA, Canada, Scotland, South Africa and Australia, but not (for obvious reasons) the Republic of Ireland.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see that the Orange Lodges (or the Orange Order) have much to do with Macedonia, not least (as to use Orange terminology, there are no "Papists" in Macedonia, nor were there Macedonian or Greek troops at the Battle of the Boyne in 1691). But please correct me if I [...]

Read the full comment am wrong.

to Fyrom Sucks - what does Fyrom suck exactly ? I'm not sure I follow your English. Presumably Fyrom sucks ice lollies like everybody else does when it's hot. So what precisely - in clear and unambiguous English - do you actually mean to say ?

(If your English isn't up to the job, this is a Bulgarian site, so you can always express yourself in Bulgarian).

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Jim - I have tracked down your specific point about US fighter planes "buzzing" Greek fighters to force them to turn back.

This is true for a force of seven brand-new F4E Phantoms (Greek) which attempted to fly on 23 July 1974 from Heraklion air base in Crete to Cyprus. After take-off they were "interdicted" one-by-one by the US Air Force from completing their mission, and returned to Heraklion (during the landing process only five arrived safely, and the other two crash-landed off the runway, being new to the pilots and much faster on landing than [...]

Read the full comment their predecessor F84Fs)

The probable reason for the USAF action was that the planes were brand-new and the Greek pilots were not fully trained to their use (as indeed the crash-landings demonstrated. Both aircraft were damaged beyond repair, and replacements only arrived in 1975.)

In contrast, Greek troop-carrying aircraft were permitted by USAF to fly from Heraklion / Souda Bay in Crete at low altitude to Nicosia, carrying the Greek 1st Commando regiment, on 22 July. These aircraft were elderly Noratlas and Dakota troop-carriers, and flew at very low altitude, at one point reportendly nearly hitting a US aircraft carrier (from which one can conclude that the US permitted their flights !) The British were, however, less tolerant, and threatened retaliation if any more troop-carrying aircraft overflew their base at Akrotiri.

When the troop-carrying Greek aircraft arrived at Nicosia airport, there was a nasty episode of "friendly fire" by the Greeks on the ground, as I have said earlier, but that is enough for now.

If this isn't sufficient for you, Jim, I can give you the Greek pilots' names as well. (This indicates that I feel reasonably confident in my sources !)

Jim - point taken, but to me the whole Cyprus 1974 saga demonstrates what the Americans call the SNAFU theory of warfare ("Situation Normal - All F**ked Up", as follows:

1) It is not normally helpful in gaining US support to assassinate the US Ambassador in his own Embassy (A Greek Cypriot did this).

2) It is not normally helpful if ships of opposing navies have identical profiles and radar "footprints" to your own vessels, as it is difficult to know if you are shooting friend or foe. (Subsequently the US have [...]

Read the full comment proved themselves masters of "friendly fire")

3) It is not normally helpful if the entire High Command is on holiday the day the invasion starts (21 July 1974 - must have been a Greek national holiday)

4) It is not normally helpful if you shoot down your own planes arriving to relieve your garrison (this happened at Nicosia airport, when Greek troops shot sown two Greek aircraft)

5) It is not normally helpful if your fighter planes sink one of your own destroyers (this is what the Turks did !)

6) It is not normally helpful if your crack parachute regiment is parachuted right into the HQ of the enemy side (this is what the Turks managed to do !)

7) It is not normally helpful if another nation has heavily-armed Sovereign Bases on your island (with which it could help repel the invader), but decides to "sit on its hands" and do diddly-squat (this is what the British did !)

I could go on, but I am sure you see my point. The US 6th Fleet has a permanent presence in the Mediterranean, partly functioning as a "R&R" (Rest & Recreation Posting) for sailors from more arduous theatres of war. From the information I can find, it was at anchor off the Italian coast on 21 July 1974, and had to set sail so quickly that it left a fair number of its sailors behind in Italian brothels, so SNAFU probably applied again.

With the greatest respect, your father must have seen a fair number of SNAFUs in the Hellenic military. All armed forces of all countries experience them (even the Turks !)

Hey Robert The Great!
(why do you guys name everything "The Great" - size issues?)

Don't have to wait for the Turks, pretty soon most of Makedonia will go the way of Kosovo any way, so all this is pointless.

If you are nice though, we may grant you a Bulgarian passport - I believe at least a third of your "compatriots" got one already - as a way out of being ruled by Muslims;)

'course you can always convert;)
you know they'll snip [...]

Read the full comment your foreskin, right?
Just don't think about it;)

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Epaminondas: I have to question exactly how far away the 6th fleet was. I say this because during the invasion of Cyprus my father was in the Hellenic Air force as an air traffic controller and every plane that he directed to take off and head to Cyprus was being forced to return by U.S. jets.

Regarding you link however, I am surprised you would offer this as a near scholarly reference. In any event history is open to interpretation especially military history.

Regarding conscription. Greece does have a professional army so [...]

Read the full comment I am not fully clear on your point about this. Greece has 300,000 troops in peace time and with reserves can increase this number to approx.400-500 thousand, this is not considering conscripts. with conscripts Greece can bolster its forces to 1.5 million during war time and only in the greatest of need.

Additionally, rather than looking at the "summer solider" or conscript look at the very excellent training of the reg. armed forces and the Spec. ops.

However, while I always value your input and the discussions we have I find that you discredit the Hellenic military in many ways as a third rate force and this is simply not the case.

In any event, as I stated in my previous post, this is not 1974.

Only time will tell.

Cheers.

Sonja I must say your posts are certainly very refreshing to read-and demonstrates that there are reasonable people out there when it comes to the issue of the name between Hellas and FYROM-if anything, even if you were of the opposite opinion at least we could have ourselves a decent conversation without the posturing and histrionics of Robot and his ilk-braindead people.

Kudos to you.

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This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

Danke shoene, Epaminondas. People like this idiot 2cm.robert don't understand the issues on the ground. Most irritating is that they're are not or have never been here to see how many young people make a big effort to bridge issues which in most cases are created by egotistic politically based interests. They can preach all their rubbish about ancient Macedonian roots etc. in their rich show-off houses in the diaspora without explaining how we also have our Slavic heritage. You know education is hard work but in the diaspora these idiots go to their local churches and let some priest [...]

Read the full comment brainwash them into believing we all sprang up from the ancients. We are Macedonians today! Not some fake historical ancient sarrisa holding Zoran, Igor, Lube, Dosta, these are very ancient Macedonian sounding names right? Our names are Slavic so be proud of it. See it takes a Greek to understand us. Again Viel, Vielen Dank. Manchmal man muss was sagen oder diese idioten denken die wissen den gansen geschichte.
Machs GUT!!!!!!!!!!!

Sonja - there may well be more than one person posting under the name of "Robert", as some very different opinions have been expressed under that ID (this site doesn't have any mechanism against ID "borrowing", unfortunately - other blogsites have this.)

The "Robert" whom you have targeted does indeed seem a little "challenged" in various departments - though it might be as well if you left his virility out of the discussion, as the Moderators may otherwise intervene. And Bulgarian-language death threats, with respect, don't help your otherwise good case.

Aries [...]

Read the full comment - the "parier la couille" expression is actually quite common French, although it does translate into English as something slightly vulgar. It is not so in the original language, although (for obvious reasons) it is normally used only by men.

S uvazheniem - mit freundlichen Gruessen

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This comment has been hidden by the moderator because it contained квалификации.

Robert - can you give me some authoritative third-party source for what you claim about the Sixth Fleet ? My NATO sources tell me differently. Your account sounds like tabloid journalism at its most crude.

Secondly, the accuracy of your statements is further thrown into doubt by your reference to "my joke of a nation". My nation governed Cyprus for many years, before the Greek EOKA terrorists murdered too many of our soldiers for domestic public opinion to tolerate, so we have our reasons for not necessarily taking the Greek side on issues. But I do [...]

Read the full comment not think that we are a "joke". Others may, of course, disagree, and it would be interesting to hear their easons why.

Epaminondas, actually you are dead wrong about what you said concerning the US 6th fleet. The US 6th fleet had did play a major role in the turkish invasion of Cyprus, because they basically told the Greek navy, either turn back or we will blow you out of the sea. This effectively gave a free pass to turkeys illegal invasion of Cyprus. So before you leave comments, please read up on your history. We are not all as stupid as you may think-and another thing, bashing Greece is not going to make your joke of a nation any better. As [...]

Read the full comment for FYROM being a US protectorate, Greeks could care less. Kosovo is a Russian protectorate and look what happened. Besides, Greece has God as its protector and you can't beat that! :-)

More or less agreed, Jim, but the US 6th fleet blockade was - and is - a "fig leaf" excuse after the event by the Greeks. The US 6th fleet was nowhere near Cyprus at the time. Also, with all those Greek-origin Senators on Capitol Hill and their powerful lobby, can you really imagine this happening ?

The other point is that there is no point in possessing state-of-the-art weaponry unless your troops are fully trained to fire them and handle them. By and large a conscript army - from whichever country - is not so [...]

Read the full comment trained, as there is simply too much turnover of troops within the 1-3 year conscription period.

A permanent army, however (like Turkey's) is better placed not just to be trained , but also to retain that training over a longer period than that of army conscription. (A bit of a technical point this, but it affects all armies, especially those with conscription. It was a problem for the British during National Service conscription, too, and also for the French.)

I agree with you, though, that war between Greece and Turkey is only a matter of time. (If you look up the Turkish press, you will see that Turkey has taken delivery of an extrordinarily large amount of advanced Italian ordnance/ military hardware recently. Clearly France and Italy will be able calmly to observe who makes the better kit, on the battlefields of Epirus, Macedonia and Anatolia.

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As a correction to my comment below Greece is exploring to acquire the Iskander E, the M series is for Russian use only.

Here is a link to explore the specs if anyone is interested.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Russia_Eyes_New_Customers_For_Iskander_E_Missile_999.html

Cheers

Epaminondas: my friend again I find myself commenting on the war games. lol. I think we should create and dedicate a forum for this topic alone as it seems to come up alot and can be discussed at length.

Not to repeat but this also is for Doktor Tek. While the invasion of Cyprus was a surprise attack, please lets not just disregard key facts in the chain of events. And Epaminondas you are welcome to comment although we have had this chat in lenth.

Dok Tek. remember that first, the Turks [...]

Read the full comment invaded with some 40,000 troops and 200 tanks, Greece's military presence was not substantial to counter this nor did Cyprus have military resource to contribute. Not withstanding this vital point, Greece was met with a U.S. blockade by the 6th fleet I can not stress how vital this was for the Turkish incursion succeeding.

Greek naval power had no chance to react against Turkey with the U.S. in the middle so saying they were swept aside is not exactly accurate.

However, this is not 1974, Greece is not oblivious to Turkish intentions nor their current and obvious mobilization under the vail of "friendly relations" Cyprus may not have a military power to boast about but they have more today then ever before and they are not ill equipped.

Second, the S-300 in Crete are not something to joke about either. Not even considering the French "SCALP" more recently Greece has been in talks with Russia to aquire the Iskander-M fuel bomb with a max range of 400km.

And as a historical point of reference the Germans learned a valuable lesson at the cost of several thousand paratroopers during the invasion of Crete. Keeping in mind that the Creatons had pitch forks in comparison to the German forces.

So this is not an A+B=C scenario. I truely believe it is much more complex then just saying

"well Turkey has a larger force and thus they will invade here, here and here and it will be lights out for Greece."

Either way the optimal solution here is not to go to war because in the end MANY innocent people die. But I believe this is wishful thinking. In this case war is a matter of time.

Your thoughts.

Cheers.

Aries - glad you won your bet! Moi, je suis pret a parier ma couille gauche que les relations Greco-Turques sont actuellement tres preoccupantes (for those who don't understand French: the Greek/Turkish situation is currently very worrying).

This weekend is the 35th anniversary of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, marked by military parades in Turkey and nothing at all in Greece. There are also current Turkish/Greek quarrels in Aegean Sea oil exploration rights, litigation by those Greeks expelled from Istanbul in 1964, and a few other smaller issues involving Turkish army manoeuvres, quite apart from the [...]

Read the full comment Republic of Macedonia.

Turkey also has unrelated "hot" issues re. the Armenian border, Iraq, Iran, Moslem extremists, and the smoking ban in public places ineptly introduced last month, which has already caused civil unrest.

If Turkey needs a diversion by provoking Greece in the Aegean, now would be a good time to do it in terms of Turkish domestic politics. (There is also the unrelated (?) issue of a series of massive arms contracts signed by the Turks with the Italians, which are now being delivered.)

Anybody's guess....most of this info comes from me trying to read the Turkish press in Turkish (notably Hurriyet and that splendid Turkish equivalent of "The Times" called 'Fanatik'). I cheated and read the English version when it all got too much, however.

Oh dear,Boris
When i was writing my previous post
i made a bet with a freind of mine
that you would have thought perhaps i was not sobber .
your last post made me win the bet
thanks a lot.
in other words
Il n'y a pas de plus sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre.
merci.

Oh dear, Aries, by 22.23 CET the myth-intensive Mythos beer had definitely got the better of you....

There is nothing noteworthy in the Turkish calendar about 20 / 21 July, though I note that 21 July is Belgian National Day and 22 July the same in Poland. So no non-military reason for Turkey's Generals to put on a special show to impress anybody, least of all their own government. where they are still embedded fairly firmly.

Personally, I suspect the main reason for the timing is dry weather on the Aegean and [...]

Read the full comment Anatolian plains, making it easy to move tanks and other heavy armaments.

If I were living in a mobile home, I wouldn't park it near Volos airport / air base at the moment....

You make some very interesting points Epaminondas-and I had not considred Cyprus only because of it being a surprise invasion rather than full-scale formal warfare. But as you rightly point it certainly caught us off guard.

As regards the tanks, again some interesting points but I would imagine Hellas would be adequately prepared for such a scenario were the Turks trying to pass through the Evros river plain;I imagine a barrier of defenses, traps and missiles; there would surely be contigencies even some you nor I could foresee. As for troops-I would imagine the conscripts would [...]

Read the full comment be adequately trained to do the job and operate these weapons-there is no reason why not.

Further, as for the German tanks-the sheer volume of Soviet tanks did overwhelm them and it lead to their final capitulation; my understanding is that the Nazis tried to keep up with the Russians for sheer volume but were increasingly failing to do so and that had a hand in their defeat.

Dr Teknikal - I take many of your points, but you are not quite right that "Turkey has never, ever, defeated Greece in naval conflict"; Turkey successfully invaded Cyprus by sea in 1974, and rather brushed the Greek Navy out of the way (quite apart from the fact that it rather took it by surprise.)

You may well have a point in saying that Greece has one of the largest stocks of new military hardware in Europe (which probably explains Greece's horrendous levels of national debt !), but is its largely conscript army competent to use [...]

Read the full comment them to best effect ?

Finally, in terms of tank-warfare terrain, in military terms the Evros river plain lies in Turkey's favour, as the Greek side is hemmed in by mountains and by the Bulgarian border (assuming that Bulgaria stays neutral in the conflict.) Greek supply lines north of Alexandroupolis would be poor, too. In tank battles it is often sheer volume of tanks that wins rather than technological superiority, as the Germans found to their cost east of Berlin in 1945: the German Royal Tiger tanks were far superior to anything the Russians had, but the Russian T-34 tanks (primitive by German standards) were simply far more numerous. The "Battle of the Seelow Heights" demonstrated this, and opened the gates of Berlin to the Russians once they won it.

What's the Turkish for "Alexandroupolis" ? Maybe we'd all better learn it.......

That statement was so moronic that it made my brain hurt. And as for the 2001 civil war-you sure it wasn't your abysmal treatment of the Albanians that provoked it? That aside, were it the case Hellas provoked it do you think that they would not have made a more tangible impact and helped the Albanians openly to divide and conquer you? If you use your brain (which is non-existant), Hellas actually provided FYROM with aid but your blind hatred stops you from seeing that. And that movie-a better title would have been "Chickens"-just like the chickens who did that [...]

Read the full comment pathetic Ilinden uprising.

Go on post your stats. this will be worth a laugh.

Once again you fail to comprehend what i have written...The turkish nation is a known bastardized people who were all Christian once apon a time...however there were also turks/albanians who never converted like those ones in anatolia (the million you dumped and infested my agean Macedonian land) and athens...understand now...
Well Macedonia's army would be no match for any of the 3 big armies but they dont need to because it is the second country in the world to be assured a protectorate of the USA..the other is Isreal. In regards to turkey you will be guaranteed of [...]

Read the full comment a loss as their arsenal is much larger than yours and i can get those statistics for you if you like. Also a much larger population as well as a much larger muslim turk presence in modern fabricated greece which would cause internal wars...So i would be betting on turkey in that war. Im sure they will get their rightful claim to all of cyprus some day.
Oh and you do know that it was the greeks who started the 2001 war in Macedonia by providing the weapons to the albos?? Our army would have destroyed the lot of them but there was to much presure from nato not to..and also its funny how for a small army we have some of the best recognised soldiers in the world...THE WOLVES...a movie in hollywood is currently being made about them.

Christian-Turks-now who's the moron?! Robert you dolt; amongst the worst acts a Muslim can commit is to convert to Christianity (or any other religion mind you) which is considered apostasy and is punishable by death; why on Earth would Turks who were the highest-caste/class in the old Ottoman Empire foresake a privileged status which entitled them to own land and so on, to commit apostasy per Islam, take on a lower status as a Christian and be subject to stringent/draconian taxation and the Haratsi of all things; you really are moronic.

That aside, were war to [...]

Read the full comment break out between Hellas and Turkey it would be a stalemate-although Turkey has superior numbers, their aircraft and artillery are decrepit and poorly maintained whereas Hellas has been stocking up on the latest French, Russian and American weapons system-there are entire hollowed out mountains in Hellas with missile batteries and entire garrisons in the Aegean for the purpose of defence. Were Turkey to try a land-based assault via Thrace it would get bogged down and be lead into a blood-bath given the terrain and the defenses.
Lest we forget that Turkey has never, ever defeated Hellas in naval conflict.

As regards conflict between FYROM and Hellas-it would be like dangling a baby between pitbulls-it'd last 3 seconds and would be positiviely gruesome. I mean, the FYROMian army couldn't even hold off a few thousand Albanian insurgents armed with Kalashnikovs and you their lunatic diaspora internet warriors believing they can annexe Northern Hellas and "avenge" 1913-it's preposterous.

That aside, wishful thinking all in all-none of these scenarious will play out; Robert you ought to get your head out of your rectum and come to reality.

HEY ROBERT DO YOU REALISE GREECE HAS ONE OF THE LARGEST MILLITARIES IN THE E.U. INCLUDING 181 F-16S AT ITS DISPOSAL HOW ABOUT HELLAS & FYROM GO TO WAR TO SORT OUT THERE DIFFERENCES AND THE WINNER CAN KEEP THE LOSERS TERRITORIES.

robert the idi*t who about greece & fyrom go to war i can guarantee you it would last 5 minutes

Robert The Great: Get a life!!
All you do is display the product of ridiculous propaganda.

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En mass it is well known that a large percentage of modern day greece are Christian Turks who think they have lineage to the hellenes aka phoenicians....

Oh and Jim the reference to the turkish general...well the way i percieve Agean Macedonia is that it is still Macedonian even though it may be under occupation. So i was making a joke out of the situation in saying that the turks asked the true owners of that land for permission...

Jim...i dont have a problem with the people as i have greek friends...i have a problem with the politics and their continued draining of the Macedonian people who are basically trying to live life. I am from Voden which is in Agean Macedonia and until the early 90's was refered to as northern greece occupied. My family there cannot even speak or learn their own language without retribution...my family here is not allowed to go back and reclaim land that was stolen with blood from the government...do i hate??? yes.
Turkey would destroy greece largely due to the [...]

Read the full comment size of its armies...also you must realise there is a large muslim population within greece which would erupt...after cyprus is flattened then the greece would crumble not long after. All the Macedonians, albanians and turks would not fight for greece and may even fight against her.

So does that mean the Prophecy says that Serbians, Bulgarians turks, albanians and greeks will be destroyed for raping Macedonia to near non existence. If you look at history mate you dont have to go further than 1913 to see what these countries did. The muslim might be percieved as bad but unfortunately the christian can be worse. Macedonia was better of when under occupation as they at least received some basic rights unlike my fellow countrymen in Pirin and Agean Macedonia

regardless of what anyone says here, especially those of you that are pro-turkish, according to many prophecies, God has already decided what will happen when a conflict begins. Turkey will initiate an attack but will subsequently be destroyed, paying retribution for hundreds of years of enslavement, murder, genocide, and rape towards its neighbors throughout its bloody history. Whether you believe it or not, it will come to pass as it is Turkeys destiny and punishment for its sins. Don't take my word for it, read the prophecies for yourself. Whether one believes in God or not does not matter. God [...]

Read the full comment does exist and his prophecies will come to pass.

Sorry as an addition to my comment below: To clarify, it was a Turkish military official that visted FYROM. I am not clear however on your comment:

"Yes the Turkish minister came to Macedonia to ask if they can fly over its airspace in the agean..."

FYROM is land locked what airspace are you referring to?

Is there any intellectual commentary here or is it just rubbish?

Anyway, Rob. I can tell that you have something personal against Greece, not sure why but hey thats your choice. However, I had an interesting discussion on an other article with a gent. who seems to have a hell of a lot of knowledge regarding a potential war scenario.

Very interesting points he made.
But I just wanted to ask you what are your thoughts regarding a Turkish incursion into Greece? Please share your thoughts.

[...]

Read the full comment I mean with certainty Turkey is a heavy hitter in terms of military power but I do not see how you are disregarding Greek military power either. There are strategic variances that allow for a long drawn out conflict, longer then 48 hours.

Your thoughts?

Cheers

Does anyone else think that bojnkajanis looks like a transvestite?

Cosmos the greeks have dug there own grave by standing up to the big nations which they thought they were. Their criticism over US policy was the last straw from this insignificant fictitiously created nation which is a burden to both the eu and nato.

What would happen if two nato nations went to war? who will side with who??? well we all know that turkey would destroy greece and cyprus within 48 hours....

Jean a frenchmen suffering an inferiority complex (france has always been a joke and no one listened to her during the iraq invasion)??? Yes the Turkish minister came to Macedonia to ask if they can fly over its airspace in the agean...

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To Boris

Pour compsomation locale!!!!!!

Every year on this day the generals who govern Turkey must deliver a
special show in order to justify
their existence.

Either parades either visits to northern Cyprus either drills for oil in the Aaegea,either the usual
airspace violation.
It has become boring ,so this year they discovered that they must justify themselves with something
new so they decided to make my good friend Boris a surprise.
Boris is now very [...]

Read the full comment very happy.
He has a brand new toy to play with

Cheers my friend.


on

My worst fears are about to be realised (as I have posted elsewhere.)

Now you all see why there was a senior Turkish military mission under General Ilke Bazbug sent to Skopje on 24 June this year....

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear (there must be a line in Classical Greek for the opening of a Tragic Chorus..)

To J.M And Dr.T
"Greece will survive as having the strengh of surviving"
Charilaos Trikoupis.

Amen to that Jean Michelle-your analysis was spot on. With the US and the UK aiding and abetting the criminals of Israel and Turkey monstrous human rights violations have been allowed to happen and will continue to happen-and then they have the temerity to speak of other nations' violations (alleged or otherwise). Hypocrisy be thy name USA.

America and the UK back Turkey and Fyrom over Greece. That is the begining and the end of the problem. Until this support for this Islamic nation ends over Greece, Greece will only be bullied and humiliated daily by the Turks. It is sad, but the UK and USA really don't care if Greece ceases to exist, however Turkey/Israel will always be looked after like to retarded bullies/

Byzantine I'm afraid that's what the Turks want to legitimise their behaviour. There has to be a unilateral reaction by the EU to denounce the behaviour because it is an act of war and a violation of EU airspace; besides, they do stunts like this because the US backs them-simple as that; they have gained the "tharos" to use the Hellenic term, to persist with such behaviour and it is truly appalling.

Next time just shoot one of their planes down let's see if they come back....

This isn't a violation of Hellenic airspace; it is also a violation of EU airspace and it is sickening that the EU Commission has not stepped into to say as much; I am not surprised anyway.

And the Zaman is really very clever with that article-next time we'll just slaughter some pigs and feed it to those Turks-that'll be fun. Dolts.

no problem ere next time just ask before coming over

no problem ere next time just ask before coming over