Marko Kralevski could also be a Russian or Polish name ("Kralevski" = royal); don't make assumptions, otherwise I shall assume that you are a Pontian whose family only arrived in Greece in 1923.

Marko Kralevski sound Bulgarian to me . please stick to your slavic heritage and do not pretend to be Macedonian .zito i ellas zito i Makedonia

It is quite clear from available historical records that the Anglo-Saxons were blond-haired and blue-eyed, whereas the Greeks were (and are not ) - just show me a present day blond blue-eyed Greek !

Furthermore, Pope Clement IV saw some Anglo-Saxon children on sale as slaves in Rome in the 5th century AD, and exclaimed "Non sunt Angli, sed Angeli " (Not Angles but Angels). Which prompted St Augustine to set out and convert England to Christianity, which he did (the Welsh, of course, already being Christians from the Roman occupation.)

There are very few (if any) blond blue-eyed Welsh people either, come to think of it. So the child slaves in Rome were definitely Anglo-Saxons, as very probably are the fair haired blue-eyed descendants of Alexander's "lost legions" now discovered in India.

Small world, innit ? Oh well, back on my bike now, It's hard work being Mayor of London, but I did Greek at Eton so I know about classical times !

Si ma grandmere avait des pompoms
elle serait ma grandpere.
Cela est dedicace a mon ami Aristo pour son commemtaire a propos des Anglo-Saxons dans l'armmee d'ALEXANDRE LE GRAND.

What on earth does "care factor=0" mean - are we talking about suntan lotion now ? Off-topic, I would have thought.

CARE FACTOR = 0

Ancient Macedonian saying (also English):

"Water off a duck's back!

(The palaeio-Macedonians were a lost Anglo-Saxon tribe anyway, hence their fair hair and blue eyes, as recently rediscovered in India as descendants of one of Alexander's Lost Legions.)

Aristotle = Dr. Cornelius = Duck Island = David

Aries - thanks. Theodorakis is best known over here (probably in the Netherlands more than anywhere else) for the "Ballad of Mauthausen" and "Lianotragouda", both as originally sung in Greek by Maria Fariandouri and later in Dutch by Lisbeth List (who did them rather well.)

When in Rhodes/Rodos on a day trip from Turkey, I tried buying some Theodorakis records from the local record shop. It was a bit like asking for the proverbial pork chop in a synagogue - I ended up with the sound track of "Zorba the Greek", whereas I really wanted "Mauthausen"! Also I got some very dirty looks, and I am sure I heard the word "Communist" aimed in my direction.....and this was only a few years ago.

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Aristo
Mon Vieux.
Est ce que jamais te vas cesser de chercher la puce dans la paille pour satisfaire ton glorieux et ardent anti-hellisme.
Merci.

Well, the Treaty of Lausanne said "Turkish" back in 1923, and that is also what UNHCR called them in their 2009 report, though clearly they have become assimilated into Hellas since.

What the UNHCR report also identified was a cultural "denial" by the Athens government to deal with the Slavonic-speaking minority around Florina / Lerin (UNHCR's words, not mine), and it would be interesting to see what emerges there. Meanwhile, what has happened to the poor old Vlachs in northern Greece is anybody's business.....

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Aristo
thanks to Nick answering.
The Greek muslims of Xanthi have at least two seatS in the Greek
parliasment.
the Orthodox Turks how many seats in the Turkish parliament have they? NIL.

There is no 'Turkish' minority.
Half of the muslim minority are Pomaks and Roma.
The fact that they belong to a different ethnic group has nothing to do with the way they self identify and feel: they have a Hellenic ethnic consciousness and are happy and proud Greek citizens.

Aries -

Sorry, minor correction. In Greece's case I forgot about the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) laying down specific protection for the Turkish minority in Western Thrace, though this is not strictly a constitutional point.

Aries - I take your point about Statute Constitutions: most European countries (except the UK !) have them too. Leaving out obvious 'federal' states such as Belgium and Switzerland where the ethnic and linguistic rights of their component peoples are protected from the outset, the position with other countries appears to be as follows:

Germany: Spreewender rights (schools and Wendish language) protected.

France: Breton and Basque rights now protected (they were not so originally)

Spain: Basque and Catalan rights now fully protected (again not so originally)

Poland: German and Lithuanian ethnic rights now protected.

Slovenia: a model of its kind: full ethnic rights (including a seat in Parliament for each) granted to the Hungarian and Italian minorities from the outset.

Austria: ethnic rights for Slovenes, Hungarians, Italians and Czechs always protected.

Slovakia: Hungarian rights protected from the outset.

Lithuania: Polish rights protected, Russian rights less so.

"Bad Boys" (no protection of minority rights whatsoever) :
Italy, Serbia, Hungary, and (I am afraid) GREECE.

Why is this the case, when so many other European countries are setting a very good example indeed of multi-ethnicity and minority protection ? Doesn't square very easily with being the "Oldest Civilisation in Europe",. does it ?

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On the basis of the known facts (as opposed to myths taught in Greek schools as 'history') I have to agree with Alexander.

Under the Roman Empire there were two Macedonias, not one (Macedonia Prima and Macedonia Salutaris); Prima was more or less today's Greek Province, and Salutaris (means "health-giving") more or less today's Republic of Macedonia.

As Karamanlis said: "history cannot be re-written", and this is well-recorded history. (Karamanlis may regret having said that, but that's his problem.)

"It is only the Vlachs who give Hellenism a foothold. Withdraw them from their Greek alliance, and Greece must disappear from Macedonia." - Brailsford

Alexandros, United Macedonian, etc you have either a Vlach or Pontic Greek/Christian Turk past. My advice is to stop denying Macedonians their ethnicity simply to stay deluded in your fantasy of being a pure Hellene.

That is the most interesting portion of this argument: If you admit you are of non-Greek origin, who are you to tell others how to identify?

Alexandros, United Macedonians, all I have to say is:

You have no reply to documents showing most Greeks in Macedonia before the population exchanges were of Vlach origin, and those Greeks that came from the population exchanges spoke TURKISH! Again, you jump onto the ancient history, even though modern historians state the Macedonian Kings stated they used political tactics to keep the Greeks under order. But, we see time and time again that they rebelled under the "Macedonian yolk."

You're statements of that we call "Grkmans and Traitors the real, indigenous Macedonians" are a complete joke. These are the descendants of ancestors forced to drink oil if they did not speak Greek, who were forced to pledge to only speak Greek, and who were jailed or killed if they disobeyed.

But, you yourself admit that you being "Macedonian" has nothing to do with ancestry, but ignorance of ones past culture and uptake of a new, foreign culture (Hellenism). Look at iGENEA and other gene studies which prove once and for all the Macedonians are a mixture of Slav and Macedonian, and so is their culture.

The Greeks from Asia Minor lived there since ancient times. The language was spoken since ancient times and if there were Macedonian settlers in Asia, it is them, for no ethnic group speaks Slavic in Turkey, Syria, Egypt, etc. They are far more Macedonian than the FYROM Slavs who do not speak Greek and do not live in Macedonia. There is a difference between Macedonian Bulgarian and Macedonian.

What exactly is the difference between a Bulgarian and a Non Albanian resident of fyrom?? And when did Makedones start speaking Bulgarian?? ANd naming themselves Igor and Boris?? Why do Skopjians need a foreign dictionary (Hellenic) to translate what their supposed ancestors wrote??

Alkis and others -

The most recent UNHCR report (2009) on Greece and its minorities / borders is heavily critical of Greece and its government:

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/49b7b2e52.pdf

Apart from that, the description of the very same territories in the later Roman Empire (Greek Macedonia - Macedonia Prima, fyr Macedonia - Macedonia Salutaris) would seem to have a great deal of merit, not least as it has impeccable historical antecedents - unlike anything cobbled together under the Greeks. The Romans knew how to organise, which is how they conquered Greece in 146 BC, Macedonia (both), and everywhere else around the Mediterranian.

What you 'cannot comprehend' Aleksandar, is that Ancient Macedonians felt themselves as Greeks and acted as Greeks spreading Hellenic culture.
Anyone who shares and practices Hellenic education is potentially Greek.
Greekness is not a characteristic of nobility, decent or special privilege.
It is not a DNA thing.
What you fail deliberately to accept is that you want to define people's identities on some racist and unscientific 'evidence' You hate the decisions that people make. This is why you call 'Grkmans' and 'Traitors' the real, indiginous Macedonians who have rejected your racist and irredentist cult of 'Macedonism' and instead embraced Hellenism as their ethnic consciousness.
And BTW do not quote ancient sources: they were not referring to the people who arrived 1000 years later and constitute the majority of the people of FYROM today.

The ancient author spoke several times of ancient Macedonians and ancient Greeks being separate ethnicity*, as was evident through ancient Greek historians among others.

But, who says you are even Greek? Look at this quote:

"a significant segment of the Greek population in Macedonia and elsewhere descends from Vlachs" - Helen Abadzi

"It is only the Vlachs who give Hellenism a foothold. Withdraw them from their Greek alliance, and Greece must disappear from Macedonia." - Brailsford

Then again, even Thessaly was known as "Great Vlachia."

Greeks in Macedonia are either "Pontic Greek"/Christian Turk, or Hellenized Vlachs. That is why you guys constantly deny our identity, you cannot comprehend that you are not even Greek, let alone Macedonian.

The ancient author spoke several times of ancient Macedonians and ancient Greeks being separate elasticities, as was evident through ancient Greek historians among others.

But, who says you are even Greek? Look at this quote:

"a significant segment of the Greek population in Macedonia and elsewhere descends from Vlachs" - Helen Abadzi

"It is only the Vlachs who give Hellenism a foothold.
Withdraw them from their Greek alliance, and Greece must
disappear from Macedonia." - Brailsford

Then again, even Thessaly was known as "Great Vlachia."

Greeks in Macedonia are either "Pontic Greek"/Christian Turk, or Hellenized Vlachs. That is why you guys constantly deny our identity, you cannot comprehend that you are not even Greek, let alone Macedonian.

Dear M.K,
Funny how many people whose parents have blood on their hands and other butchers who escaped punishment for their crimes and live as oucasts in the Diaspora, call 'refugees' people who have always had a Hellenic ethnic consciousness no matter where they came from.
The only connection your state has with the word 'Macedonia' is a very limited geographic one. The precise name is Vardarska...and this without even taking into account the wishes of the 40% Albanian population who'd prefer Dardania.

Dear Marko...I assure you, we Makedones speak the same language as our ancestors did HELLENIC. Im not sure what you call what you speak. By the way I can trace our family tree were NOT from Turkey or Refugees..We are Makedones. Cheers

The Bulgarian majority of FYROM, proud Yugos and recently turned 'Macedonians' has never had and never will have any connection to 'Macedonia' or 'Macedonians'.
They should ask the Bulgarians who know them best to tell them who they are.

I think the history of the Greek Civil War 1946-48 shows that there are refugees on both sides of the Macedonian borders, although the arrival of the Pontian Greeks from Turkey in 1924-26 occurred in "Greek" Macedonia.

Lol, the language is Macedonian, the people are Macedonian. Those Turkish refugees in northern Greece have no right to appropriate the adjective 'Macedonian' on the basis of Greece's primordial identity crisis.