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Yeah, but the Marbles aren't in Scotland, and devolution means that any decision is taken in England. And the view of the English Government is "what we have, we hold".

Actually, I think Lord Elgin was actually a Scottish peer, if that makes any difference.

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I dont think anyone in Britain is "ashamed" by the new Acropolis Museum - more likely they don't care a great deal about it. Preoccupation with the forthcoming Olympics is more likely, especially given the pig's ear that Athens made of the last one. (Mind you, Athens at least got a modern and functional tram system, which is something....)

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Title says everything, mouhahaha!

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Humm... some hellenophobic comments from a UK newspaper. Not surprised at all since the new acropolis made the British Museum and Britains ashamed. So they're looking for a revenge now.

But this article is useless and has no effect. That's more talking than acting.

If I was you, I would be more afraid by the case of FYROM which is in a catastrophic economic situation and is about to bankrupt at every stage (if it's not the case now). FYROM is about to become more poor than Albania and I predict soon [...]

Read the full comment a catastrophic failure in their infrastructures and a political changement... Vardar may implose in a couple of months.

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I. "The Republic of North Macedonia" and Greece


The Plan included five elements: (1) Macedonia will change its constitutional name to Northern Macedonia ("The Republic of North Macedonia"); (2) Macedonia will be granted a transition period to amend its constitution and to alter its registered name with various international and multilateral institutions; (3) Macedonia will be issued an invitation to join NATO; (4) Both countries will be allowed to use the adjective "Macedonian" (both commercially and non-commercially); (5) The parties will renounce any and all claims to each other's territory.

[...]

Read the full comment Sure enough, weeks later, Matthew Nimetz, the UN mediator in the name issue published essentially the very same plan. It was promptly rejected by both parties.

Macedonia has hitherto been literally invisible on the Obama's Administration's list of priorities. But this is fast changing. Obama and Clinton still regard the Balkans as essentially a European problem. But, as they tackle the Middle-East head-on, the last thing they need is a "second front" with restive minorities in Bosnia-Herzegovina, or Macedonia. Additionally, countries like Macedonia and Israel are now bound to pay the price for having been staunch supporters of Republican administrations in general, and George Bush in particular.

The Obama Administration will shortly appoint a Balkans Envoy, a person well-known and little-liked in Macedonia for his coarse interference in its internal affairs. His job will be twofold: to calm passions down in Bosnia, if necessary through well-timed and much-publicized arrests and to force both Macedonia and Greece to accept the above-mentioned five-points plan. The USA will not take "no" for an answer and will set a strict timetable for the resolution of the name issue and a NATO invitation by yearend.

Macedonia doesn't stand a chance of resisting such an onslaught. It will be forced into a humiliating retreat. Prime Minister Gruevski can use the country's new President, Gjorge Ivanov, as a scapegoat and "blame" him for any painful compromises Macedonia may be forced to make. But this gimmick won't work: Macedonian s widely (and wrongly) perceive Ivanov to be Gruevski's puppet.

Gruevski will go to a referendum on any compromise struck with Greece. It would be an unwise move, though: If the citizenry rejects the suggested deal, Gruevski will be faced with two stark alternatives: (1) To be the Prime Minister of a disintegrating country (as the Albanians will surely seek to secede from Macedonia or to federalize it, one way or the other); or (2) To lose his job altogether (as the Americans will surely seek to change the regime and depose him, as it has done in 2001-2 when it actively and successfully sought to unseat Ljupco Georgievski).

Following the country's ill-advised early elections in June, 2008, the right-wing VMRO-DPMNE was coerced by the international community (read: the EU and the USA) into joining forces with DUI, the political incarnation of erstwhile Albanian insurgents in the northwest of Macedonia, hitherto an anathema as far as Gruevski was concerned.

Hopping to bed with DUI will likely restrain the government's freedom of action. Every concession to Greece will be portrayed by jingoistic nationalists in Macedonia as capitulation and the consequence of blackmail by the Albanian parties. To the great consternation of the Macedonians, Albania, Macedonia's neighbor, has been invited to join NATO and its economy is growing even in the face of the global crisis. The restive Albanians of Macedonia would like to accede to the Alliance as soon as practicable and at all costs. Understandably, they are less attached to the country's constitutional name than the non-Albanian (Macedonian) majority.

Note: The "Name Issue" between Greece and Macedonia

The "name issue" involves a protracted dispute over the last 17 years between the two Balkan polities over Macedonia's right to use its constitutional name, "The Republic of Macedonia". The Greeks claim that Macedonia is a region in Greece and that, therefore, the country Macedonia has no right to monopolize the name and its derivatives ("Macedonian").

The Greeks feel that Macedonians have designs on the part of Greece that borders the tiny, landlocked country and that the use of Macedonia's constitutional name internationally will only serve to enhance irredentist and secessionist tendencies, thus

adversely affecting the entire region's stability.

Macedonia retorts that it has publicly renounced any claims to any territory of any of its neighbors. Greece is Macedonia's second largest foreign investor. The disparities in size, military power and geopolitical and economic prowess between the two countries make Greek "fears" appear to be ridiculous. Macedonians have a right to decide how they are to be called, say exasperated Macedonian officials.

The Greek demands are without precedent either in history or in international law. Many countries bear variants of the same name (Yemen, Korea, Germany until 1990, Russia and Byelorussia, Mongolia). Others share their name with a region in another country (Brittany in France and Great Britain across the channel, for instance).

In the alliance's Bucharest Summit, in April 2008, Macedonia was not invited to join NATO. Macedonia was rejected because it would not succumb to Greek intransigence: Greece insisted that Macedonia should change its constitutional name to cater to Greek domestic political sensitivities.

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But this leads to the question of , if 'macedonia has always been greek' then how can I, a 'bulgarian-american' have roots in greece when I have no greek blood in me? The answer of course is Macedonia has only been greek since 1913.

I guarentee you my grandparents didn't speak greek. I knew 3 of them (one died before I was born, maika na maika mi) But they didn't speak greek. They were of Komitji stock. I knew hundreds of guys my Dedo's age none of whom spoke greek.

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You are simply of Bulgarian
or Vlach origin.
but I doubdt that that your grandparents did not speak greek.

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What natiionality am I in the eyes of a greek and greece? I am born in the USA, both my parents were born in the USA in the 1920's. All four of my grandparents came from what is now greece, in 1914, 1915 1920 and 1921. All 4 of them and all 8 of their parents come from the following 3 villages. Visheni\Vissinia Kostursko\Kastoria , Ekshi-Sou\Xino Nero Lerinsko\Florina and Banitsa\Vevi Lerinsko\Florina. None of my 4 grandparents and as far as I know, none of my 8 great grandparents spoke greek, so I don't think I am greek. I am a [...]

Read the full comment 'cradle Orthodox' so I can't be a Turk. Please tell me what I am.

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Pella - I see your point, but even if you manage to re-name their republic "Skopje-Vardar-Disneyland", given day 1 of their EU accession they are going to cross your borders and do all the things you fear anyway. They don't need to be called "Macedonians" to do that... So, as regards "invasion", the name is not an issue.

Just a small point - the last head-of-state to issue a Decree Against Slav Immigrants was...er..Hitler, in 1938. So be careful about the path you tread.

Meanwhile, just to spread cheer and sweetness and [...]

Read the full comment light, here's a short excerpt from the life of every Greek Macedonian's folk hero, Alexander the Great. (Any resemblance to US TV shows or the Addams Family not intended, though Alexander's family could run them pretty close in homicide, fratricide, and all the other 'cides. Extract follows:


"In 336 BC, while attending the wedding of his daughter by Olympias, Cleopatra and Olympias' brother, Alexander I of Epirus at Aegae, Philip was assassinated by the captain of his bodyguard, Pausanias, who reportedly had a grudge against Philip, who was his former lover.i[›] As Pausanias tried to escape he tripped over a vine and was killed by his pursuers, including two of Alexander's friends Perdiccas and Leonnatus. Alexander was proclaimed King by the Macedonian army and by the Macedonian noblemen at the age of 20. [28]

Alexander began his reign by having his potential rivals to the throne murdered. He had his cousin, the former Amyntas IV, executed, as well as having two Macedonian princes from the region of Lyncestis killed, while a third, Alexander Lyncestes, was spared. Olympias had Cleopatra Eurydice and her daughter by Philip, Europa, burned alive. When Alexander found out about this, he was furious with his mother. (Good boy! I hope he said strong words to her.)

His mother also ordered the murder of Attalus, who was in command of the advance guard of the army in Asia Minor. Attalus was at the time in correspondence with Demosthenes with intentions to restore democracy".


These days, this sounds like British tourists having a bad drunken night in Corfu (I'm being objective here) or Greeks having a bit of a bad time in Omonia Square after a football match. Democracy this is not. A drunken hegemony with a pronounced taste for homicide it certainly is.

Pericles was a much nicer bloke, really......

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to Aries : it's definitely Welsh / Cymraeg - the 'diolch' means "thanks". You have now respectfully earned the right to be a recipient of the world's longest place-name: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychllawndrobwyllllantysiliogogogoch (a small village in Ynys Mon / Anglesey wth its own railway station with this name occupying the entire platform length !) Consider yourself an honorary Welshman from now on !

Garedig iawn i chwi (a very polite and respectful form of Welsh address) - not sure what the Gaelic is, but it may well take more space. The Irish Gaelic is "Mise, le mas", [...]

Read the full comment which is shorter.

Dr Cornelius
Les sentiments sont de par les memes merci en tous les cas .
"garedig iawn i diolch yn fawr".
By the way is it Welsh or Gaelic?
the diolch sounds Gaelic a it.

to Aries - sorry, I did not mean in the least to be rude in pointing out that it was "Sorbs" and not "Serbs"; of course you got it right but so many people posting on this site don't and can't even spell properly in the first place (Bill from Goldcoast being one of them !). No offence intended to you, and I hope none taken.

Avec l'assurance de mes excuses tres sinceres, et l'assurance de mes sentiments bien distinguees.

to Aries - yes, I was referring to the "Sorbs" (not Serbs !), also referred to as SpreeWender, Lusatians, and as "Sorbisch" in German. Their region is around the two towns of Bautzen (which they call Budieszyn) and Cottbus (Chociebus), south of Berlin. It is certainly odd for the visitor to see the familiar yellow/black road signs in Germany suddenly adopting a bilingual form: Germany normally doesn't "do" bilingual ! Which may bring us back "on topic" - quite a lot of European countries have a second language and permit its use on signage and road signs. Basque is the [...]

Read the full comment most obvious - and no, I don't support ETA at all - but France has Breton and also Flemish in the departement '59' around Lille, in the UK we have Welsh and Gaelic, Switzerland is happily tri-lingual, Belgium less happily so, and Slovenia even has guaranteed seats in its Parliament for Italian and Hungarian minority representatives (good on Slovenia !)

Maybe - just maybe - Greece might have been / might be a bit more linguistically tolerant in its northern regions ? Aries is right in that some of the locals there are bilingual Pomaks, but other democracies do seem to permit use of a second language without the country falling apart ! If I may end with a (very polite) phrase in my own UK bilingual language: garedig iawn i diolch yn fawr.

Bill from Gold Coast. My European friend. I offer you my hand in friendship as a Greek and you slap it away with your ignorant, fanatical and unfortunately misguided patriotism.

I understand you have the right to have a national identity. Let me ask you this; do I have a right to defend my identity? Is one human right greater than another? What happens when one conflicts with the other? Welcome to the problem of the Macedonia name issue.

I am happy to look at things from different perspectives. We need to [...]

Read the full comment in this world to have any chance of surviving as a human race, let alone moving forward. But when the person that is trying to compromise (and once again in my opinion making the bigger compromise by far) gets no sign of progressive dialogue and no sign of will to move forward from the other party, there can be no solution.

Are we destined to live out our lives without a resolution? As Dr Cornelius has said, he doesn't want his daughers to have to live through this. I agree with him of course, but not at the expense of completely giving in and turning my back on my ancestors who gave up their life for Macedonia, just so that name can then be stolen and passed around like a used teddy bear.

We are offering our hand in the name of better, long term neighbourly relations. Will you take it, or will you stick with a backwards mentality that will condemn our children and our childrens'children for decades... or centuries.... or worse?

To Tassos
I somehow share the same point of view,though your statement
"Everybody has the right to self-identification and everybody has the right to accept or reject the self-identification of someone else" leads to anarchy I think
to Dr Cornelius
are refering to the Sorbs?

To Bill from GoldCoast
Another seizure of the kind we already experienced on this post
and on an some others.
Patriotism is allowed and supported, but schizoid outbursts are not.
Behave yourself my man!!
To Dr Cornelius
We all respect the German (not Nazi) savoir faire in scientific research and documentation
personally i wasn't aware of slavic in the proximity of Berlin
about the map it could be reffering to Pomachs of the Rodopes both North(Bulgarian)
250000 and south(greece) circa 750000 which [...]

Read the full comment are of Turk oriogin
not Roma and speak a turk-slavic dialect they are Greek citizens and most of them speak Greek very well.
Thanks a lot for your analysis.

This name issue is the most ridiculous issue worldwide. Greece has been ridiculed by the Mitsotakis family for 20 years. Everybody has the right to self-identification and everybody has the right to accept or reject the self-identification of someone else. FYROM could call themselves whatever they wish and Greece should have closed IMMEDIATELY the border and blocked any diplomatic/financial activity with a hostile country out of nowhere with any direct provocation being a cause for war. That would have send a strong message immediately rather than making us greeks the fools of the world, the bullies, the spoiled child of [...]

Read the full comment EU and other comic titles. As a greek I am totally ashamed for the way my country has handled this issue. The interim agreement was a joke for both sides. It never worked, it will never work.

I think Bill from Goldcoast is rather lowering the tone of this debate - hint: don't swear on-line if you can't spell the words properly. To Aries, who asked a very reasonable 'technical' question about German pro-Bulgarian bias: yes, it could indeed have existed, although before the Nazi era German scholarship was highly respected throughout Europe for its objectivity and thoroughness (certainly the latter !) The strange thing is that in the instance of the 1916 map that I cite, any 'bias' seems to have been against the Macedonians more than the Greeks. Personally, I think that if there was [...]

Read the full comment a 'hidden agenda' to the 1916 study, it was restricted to demonstrating how many German-speaking enclaves there were throughout Europe at the time. (One thing that impressed me about it: it also recorded the presence of "SpreeWender" around Bautzen and Cottbus south of Berlin. Now these people are a Slav-speaking Wendish minority in the middle of Germany's heartland, who had a bad time under the Nazis but who had a much better time under the Russian-inspired German Democratic Republic, and who are fine now with protected linguistic rights in today's united Germany. A 'propaganda' map would not have shown these people as even existing. (By the way, Wendish is comprehensible to Czechs and Poles alike.)

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FYROM is USA's chess piece in the Balkan energy war against the Russians.

So finally we have some writers here who are trying to progress this matter to find a resolution. I think that without good dialogue, nothing can ever be solved. A comment earlier by one of the writers that the history of this area from 1900 onwards is complex and infers this date actually should be used as a starting point for this matter. Historically before this period, the area was under Ottoman rule for 500 years so what was or was not is very hard to assess. Having said this, there is still one question which confuses me which Dr [...]

Read the full comment Cornelius touched on earlier.
The notion seems to be that most of the population between Thessaloniki to the border were speaking Bulgarian before the 2nd Balkan war. Surely if this was the case, we would have had many uprisings against the foreign Greek overlord. Why did this not happen?
Secondly, may it be a possibility that these people were bi-lingual? I find it strange that what is being inferred in many of these discussions is that the population of this area all of a sudden started speaking Greek and adopted a Greek consciousness. An education person would never accept this assumption.
So having said this, can somebody please explain why people who we are told had such passionate patriotism for 2000 years would all of a sudden switch their loyalties?

Dr Cornelius
Maybe Mr Collins was one of the arrested involved in improper
conduct in Greece being somewhat drunk. because generally speaking
the British do have a esteem for the Greeks.
I am one of those who would like to wipe out the past and start from a new page, but alas every days' conduct of organized agglomerations reverts me from doing so "l'histoire se repete".
Malheuresement c'est comme ca.
I would like for the sake of debating to be more specific about the technicalities you mentioned. I [...]

Read the full comment do agree with "the gold medal goes to Progress"

Well, glad that Aries has resurfaced and come up with stakes, garlic and hammers (all of which I thoroughly approve of), and I think his analysis of the situation is about right. I could disagree with the odd technical point, but that is not a discussion appropriate for this (occasionally rather badly-behaved) forum. The Lead Medal for bad behaviour - in the absence of Peter the Truly Awful - must go to my fellow-countryman D.Collins, and a gold medal for constructive input should go to 'Progress' from Greece.

As I said earlier, let us all try [...]

Read the full comment to move forward to a more constructive future. Let the past - and the dead - bury their dead (on both sides, or maybe all three sides). Tomorrow's world is our children's world (I don't know about anybody else posting here, but I've got two daughters in their 20s), and I don't want them to be involved in their grandparents' endless territorial quarrels (and believe me, we have enough of those in Wales alone !)

To George
Vardarska would imply territorial claims from Bulgaria.
Peter
have you ever heard of the name "Bondsteel"
To Dimiter and georgios it was Bulgaria's by St Stefano treaty between Russia and the ottoman empire but Disreali was afraid of increased Russian influence in the Balkans and that resulted in the treaty of Bucharest.
to Kiril ,jewell, ac .mic mut,
megas, megas alexandros, stop acting like zombies.
or the Stakeholders will show up
with garlic,garlic sprinkle holy water,Stakes , and hammers did I forget [...]

Read the full comment anything Dr Cornelius?
Progress has a point i agree.
Dr Cornelius you must not forget ,though I accept the liguistic
theory of the period butyou also must recognize that Bulgaria was pro-german at the time and repeated the same mistake by 1940
which messed tbe thing up once again with all the derived complications in the Balkans after 1940.

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"Progress" has a good point, in fact several of them. We all need to move forward and to take a constructive attitude for the future.

My compatriot D.Collins should not call the Greeks 'stupid', and maybe he meant to write "invent" rather than "invest". All nations have their idiots, including mine.

That said, as I posted a little earlier, the post-1900 history of the Macedonian region is complex and does not fit either the Greek or the Macedonian theses (so both sides are 50% wrong ! Or 50% right, depending upon whether you see a glass as half-empty or half-full.) In summary, the present day population of FYROM was classified as intregally Bulgarian ('clang' from one side). Unfortunately, the whole territory [...]

Read the full comment from Saloniki up to the the present border was classified at the same time as being firmly Bulgarian-speaking and not Greek, with a few enclaves speaking Turkish or Vlach. ('Clang' goes the bell on the other side.) So it does seem that a great deal of 'ethnic cleansing' has gone on since 1916, leaving the Turks (for once) out of the equation, and in the direction of eradicating the Bulgarian-speaking peoples of today's Greek province of Makedonija. Sorry, but that's the objective historical record.

First of all let me just say out right that I am Greek. I hope that doesn't give people the impression on this board that I have one view and one track thought on this matter.
To James Jewel. How you can call Greece a bully is beyond me. The Greek people have been bullied since the first recordings of history. We are still being bullied in fact. Please, before making big statements, research the topic and then come back for a chat. Greece is simply defending its' history and land. I don't consider that bullying.
[...]

Read the full comment Here is how I see this issue as it stands. Greece and its' northern neighbour need to move forward with this as soon as possible. The international community don't care as much as they want us to believe they do. The bigger powers of this world have agendas which they need to address. They don't tell us this of course. They don't want stability in our region of the planet. Believe it. It does not help their cause, it does help it if we don't get along however. That may sound harsh, but I believe it to be true, as unfortunate as it is.
On to the suggestion of "The Republic of Northern Macedonia" as a name. I understand that the people of FYROM (and I know they will not be happy with me using the term FYROM), will not like the new name suggested, but believe me Greece will be making the much... MUCH bigger compromise if this is to be accepted. Macedonia historically speaking is Greek. It is what it is. What do I mean? Well, here's the thing, there are 2 issues. One is land, the other is people.
In ancient times, there was no Greece, there was no Turkey, there was no Macedonia, certainly not as we see nations today in the modern world. There were no borders seperating nations on a map. People just lived in areas and spoke certain languages, believed certain religions and followed certain customs. The ancient Macedonians lived in the areas we now know as Macedonia (northern Greek province), FYROM and a part of Bulgaria. They spoke Ancient Greek (not modern Greek or Slavic), they believed in gods such as Zeus, Athena, Poseidon, basically the 12 gods of Olympus, and culture in general was the same as the rest of the ancient Greek people, based mainly on their belief of the 12 gods of Olympus as mentioned. People with these beliefs also lived in areas that are now part of Western Turkey, Italy etc. But, they all considered themselves Greeks of the ancient world. Sparta, Athens, Thebes, Macedonia, Sardis, Halicarnassus, even Sicily, just to name a few.

The people of FYROM are of Slavic descent. Their ancestors migrated to the region approximately 600-700 AD. Alexander the Great died around 300 years BC. A full millenium seperates the two. There is no connection. You cannot connect these two dots.

I do not for a second agree with this new name, but if we are to move forward as two peoples, we have to make compromises. After all, the people of FYROM and Greece need to get along. We share a border, but that is not all. We also share a religion. Orthodox Christianity.

Identity is the main concern of the people of FYROM from what I can see. The language spoken by the people of FYROM is not Macedonian, or at least has no connection with the language spoken by ancient Macedonians. The people of FYROM have no connection with ancient Macedonians. The ONLY connection, is that the land currently being called FYROM was once part of a greater region which ancient Macedonians lived in.

I hope we can move forward and work together as Balkan neighbours. We can do so much for the region and for ourselves if we work together with united goals.

This is what the big powers (US, UK etc) do not want.

I welcome any civilised discussion on this matter. After all, communication is key.

and why there is no present of nation called <makedonian> at 1913 Bucharest theory??
and before st.stefanos theory?
and representative at ottoman empire??
THEY WAS INVISIBLE???
or just bulgarians? or a tentesy how to call the slavs people living at makedonia?

To Nimos;
Conspiracy theories are the only way people from FYROM can combat an argument, you have just shown us that this is the only way you can argue a point. You point the finger at the French & the British but what about all the other historians over time, are they wrong as well and have they been part of the same conspiracy. Lets look at the German, the Turks, the Russians, are you aware of their historical writings on this matter? For gods sake, they don't even recognize your church and you claim conspiracy from the [...]

Read the full comment west only. I think you need to look at the matter a bit more broadly.

Well Kiril;
Alexander may have conquered the other Greek tribes as did the Yankees conquer the southern American states never the less, they were all Americans as the Macedonians were Greeks. You still can't answer though , why they spread Hellenism to the then known world? Seeing that there were so few Greeks in the army as you infer, surely we would have found many other sources of historical data to confirm what you say. Unfortunately for you, there is NO evidence so until some surfaces, you have absolutely you have no argument. To win an argument, you [...]

Read the full comment need evidence.

No matter what is said about the origins of nations lets remember that real history has been concealed for many years (mainly from the 17 century onwards by the British and the French to broadcast and write a distorted view of history mainly that of ancient Greece, Rome etc.. and that these nations brought civilisation to the world... this is a lie….

There is archaeological evidence to show that ancient knowledge (maths) and mythology stories were ‘’stolen’’ by the Greek ancient writers from the Sumerian people and now claimed as a Greek invention (democracy, writing etc...)…. [...]

Read the full comment

Also the idea presented as a fact that the Slavic populations only came to the Balkans in the 6th century is wrong…. New archaeological evidence a clay tablet found from the ‘’Vinča culture’’ area in the Balkans was carbon dated to 5500 BC. So much for Greek influence their (it pre-dates it)

Recent genetic studies in Britain alone have shown a large number of people claiming to be quintessentially ‘’English’’ not so and have found at least 80% Slavic gene markers in their DNA… so much for being 100% pure race genetically speaking….

I believe that all of Europe including the Greek people today have a lot of Slavic heritage in them, many are blond with blue eyes but claim this to be a Greek trait…. If you look at all the ancient statures in Greece you will see figures of people with huge noses and very curly hair (almost an afro curly hair) which you will not see in Greeks today… have a look at the statures next time you are in Athens you will see what I mean…

Good luck to Macedonia in the negotiations over the name dispute!

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It is true that Serbia and Macedonia formed one country in 1913-1918; I have a very accurate German map from 1916 that says so. The same German map ("Laender- und Voelkerkarte Europas" , which can be found in the National Archives of the USA, UK, Poland and Russia, so it is a Grade I source) also indicates that the entire ethnic population north of Salonika was Bulgarian Slav-speaking (with some Turkish 'islands'); Greek was used from Salonika southwards. Eastwards Thrace was a linguistic and ethnic mix of Bulgarian, Turkish, and Greek, with Greek predominating along the coastline and Bulgarian being [...]

Read the full comment used inland.

I am afraid this blows ALL your theories out of the water. So now I have probably upset everybody with the cold blast of an objective source. It is unlikely that a German ethnic map of 1916(with all the study that went into compiling it) was an Anglo-American plot, since we were at war with Germany at the time !

Tito did not give us anyname stop making up false stories. we Have always been Macedonians Tito just reconised our people. In yugoslavia when it was under serb rule it was forbidden to say you are Macedonian like it is in Greece. the Serbs changed our name to sourthern serbia in 1913 and then changed it to Vardaska Bonavina. when Tito came in to power he reconised the Macedonian people for who we are. we are Macedonians Macedonians Macedonians

TITO WAS NOT EVEN BORN WHEN WE WHERE MACEDONIANS

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BG should just annex Macedonia.

The true is
"Republika Makedonija"
"Republic of Macedonia"
The other solution is the bigest farse...from the old lady Europa
Wnat a shames

Actually, all of norther Greece was stolen from Bulgaria and the native Bulgarians expelled fron the territory by Greece following the Balkan wars. Greece is not really a nation. Greeks have never been able to get along among thereselves much less other countries. Look at independant history (not written by Greeks)! So Greece should not be so arrogant in the situation of another country's name.

Glass houses Jewell. Put the stones down. It's pretty safe to say you're american or british. In either case, you have some nerve calling another country a bully. Especially a country that is trying to mind it's personal affairs and not the affairs of a country 3000 miles away.
As for Kiril, you can't be serious. There were no slavs in the region until 1000 years after Alexander. Case closed.

Why should Greece be such a bully and attempt to dictate the name of neighboring nations. It has enough problems without meddling in the life of Macedonia!

well, Peter and George, the USA was focused on truth, that's why they recognized Macedonia as Macedonia especially since there is no other country in the world with that name. Remember that Alexander the Great conquered the Greeks before he went on to conquer the rest of the world. Greeks during Alexander's time, read the Greek historians, called the Macedonians non-greek and barbarians so you can't just twist history because you want to legitimize your land grab during the balkan wars of 1913. Look at all the greeks, 30,000 that fought on the side of the persians against Alexander who [...]

Read the full comment only had a handful of greek archer mercenaries on his side. Today's Macedonians of course should realize that they are bulgarians and should re-attach with their relatives. Greece should stop being such a bully about the name issue and let the Macedonians do whatever they want especially after all the years the Greeks have butchered and bullied the slavic minority in northern greece. Isn't enough enough? Let Athens stop bullying everyone for a change.

To Dr Cornelius van Helsing,

Your comment on this serious issue is absurd and you have no right to tell somebody to shut up for voicing a logical solution. Who cares that Europeans do not know about Vardar. The point is to name this new nation in a way that reflects the true historical identity of the nation. Just because Yugoslavian Communist dictator Tito named the province Macedonia and brainwashed the people to believe they are "Macedonian" does not give them the right to usurp Greek history with their revisionist history rantings.

George from NYC - we've been round this course many times before. Nobody in Europe knows (or cares) where Vardar is, so why not shut up and let the "Northern Macedonia" option roll ? It sounds like a sensible compromise to me.

(Actually, I tell a lie: many adherents of the Jedi religion think that "Vardar" refers to their Great Lord Darth Varder. Let us respect their faith and not blaspheme their deities.)

Very strange why the USA recognised FYROM as Macedonia. I understand why the US has to be pro Turkish, but pro Fyromian?

Why are the politicians of Greece and Skopje having such a difficult time? Selecting which name to call the former Yugoslavian republic is quite simple, and best of all reflects its true identity and history. "VARDARSKA" such as "VARDARSKA REPUBLIKA " or "REPUBLIKA VARDAR." Pick ONE.