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South Eastern Europe

Macedonia 'has good relations with all Balkan countries' - speaker of parliament

Author: Clive Leviev-Sawyer Date: Thu, Mar 05 2009 141 Comments, 9573 Views
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Macedonia has good relations with all of the Balkan countries, the speaker of the Macedonian parliament Trayko Veljanovski said on March 5 2009 during a visit to Sofia.

Bulgarian news agency Focus quoted Veljanovski as saying that hate and lack of dialogue among the countries in the region was in no country's interest.

It was not long ago that the Balkans were seen as the powder keg of Europe. He hoped that this was no longer the case, Veljanovski said.

He paid tribute to Bulgaria's assistance in Skopje's reforms aimed at European-Atlantic integration.

Macedonia was not a Nato member state only because of its "absurd" dispute with Greece over the use of the name Macedonia, Veljanovski said. Efforts were being made to resolve the dispute, he said.

During his visit, he met President Georgi Purvanov, Speaker of Parliament Georgi Pirinski and with the Macedonian parliamentary delegation he is leading, meet the Bulgarian Parliament's European affairs and foreign policy committees.

Speaking after meeting Veljanovski, Pirinski said that the parliaments of Bulgaria and Macedonia should endorse prospects for development of bilateral relations and should make efforts not to permit unverified information to poison the atmosphere between them.

In the plenary hall, Krassimir Karakachanov, floor leader of the right-wing Napred ("Forward") movement, said that with its policy that "falsifies history, incites hatred and denies fundamental human rights", the state of Macedonia could be part of the European family, Bulgarian news agency BTA reported.

Karakachanov made the statement after Veljanovski addressed Parliament.

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    • AnonymousAristotleThu, Jul 09 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Aristotle Rating:
      neutral
      #166 22, 13, Tue, Jul 07 2009

      Well, just look at this very recent UNHCR report. The Greekness of Macedonia is rather a myth...

      http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/49b7b2e52.pdf

    • AnonymousSpelaThu, Jun 18 2009

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      AnonymousDr DuckTue, Jun 16 2009

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      AnonymousDr DuckSat, Jun 13 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous neutral
      #162 20, 50, Fri, Jun 12 2009

      Macedonians are Greeks indeed. No doubt about it.

    • AnonymousDr DuckFri, Jun 12 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous neutral
      #160 00, 10, Fri, Jun 12 2009

      Don't Solun me!
      Call me by my Macedonian name: Thessaloniki !

      Because Macedonians have always been Greeks.

    • Profile preview
      Tasho Alusheff Rating:
      neutral
      #159 02, 33, Wed, Jun 10 2009

      In February 1948, the Vice President of the temporary Greek authority in the mountains, Ioanis Ioanides, left for Belgrade to discuss plans for the evacuation. In March 1948 the temporary ministry of authority in Greece appealed to humanitarian groups and organizations in the various People’s Republics to save and protect these Macedonian children from hunger and the dangers and ravages of war for as long as necessary. The appeal worked. The Yugoslav Red Cross agreed to assume responsibility and oversee the central point of the distribution of the children of Aegean Macedonia into what were to become known as the [...]

      Read the full comment Iron Curtain countries. Destination Prespa, March 1948: Where a young golden haired future Alexander the Great or a dark haired black bearded Krali Marko might have roamed the Pindus Mountain range, north of Mt Olympus, galloping across the Vicho and Gramos mountains in western Macedonia, in 1948 there echoed the sounds of shuffling, trampling feet of columns of young children. In the cool, wintry early spring of 1948, led by designated Partizan ‘pied pipers’, toddlers and children, ages 2 to 14, began a long and winding treacherous journey away from the sights and sounds of war still exploding in their mountain village homeland. Fearful and bewildered, they were taken from their villages to walk for days and nights, not understanding why or knowing when or if they’d ever return. Wailing wearily on their Macedonian trail of tears, lifting tiring toddlers in their arms, older brothers and sisters heisted them onto their backs to carry them as older siblings are wont to do. Only the forested mountains, intersected by small creeks, barren meadows and sloping valleys, marked the exodus of these anonymous children of a fragmented and forgotten Macedonia. Only Destiny noted the anxiety and fear reflected in their eyes and watched as tears spilled into the soil, dampening the imprints that their young feet left on the well worn and muddied Macedonian trail. Destiny, however, would not let them remain anonymous forever. The tragedy of their young lives molded them into a new, stronger generation of Macedonians! - they are the BEGALTSI GENERATION - those who left - those who were taken away - those who returned to tell their stories. All who have survived have brave stories to tell of how they, as young children, were torn from their families and households, of how they survived and how they have lived to tell their storey. “My Name is Sotir” is one of those books that is a ‘must have’ book. Set within the framework of world events that swirled around the Macedonian People, particularly that of one young boy - Sotir, whose story unfolds against the background of the Macedonia of more than 60 years ago, where not much has changed. Macedonians though, still have great expectations because they have learned the art of survival. REMEMBER YOUR NAMES, CHILDREN; REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE; and most importantly, remember where you came from, or you will not know, to where you’ll go.

      'so pushka na ruka i Makedonia vo srtse'

    • Profile preview
      Tasho Alusheff Rating:
      neutral
      #158 02, 32, Wed, Jun 10 2009

      How wrong they were. They simply didn't understand the depths of our passion for our land, our communal history, our dignity and our self-respect. The Greeks, though, were beginning to see that the Soviets and British were going to solve the problem of their decades-long effort to cleanse themselves of every trace of the Macedonians and their hated language from Macedonia. British gold found its way into the hands of those who were willing to spy for the Greeks. Even against the families of Macedonian immigrants abroad who identified themselves as Macedonians whether in Europe, America, Canada or Australia. World [...]

      Read the full comment War II ending in Europe, in April of 1945 was just a warm up for Greece. Their civil war was inevitable. The Communist Partizan movement in Macedonia had gained momentum, supported and encouraged with covert direction from Moscow; for Russia had plans of her own for the entire Balkan Peninsula. In the Yugoslav town of Bulkes, one of the Partizan leaders had formed a children’s aid committee to oversee the evacuation of the children of Aegean Macedonia in preparation for the violent war which was already simmering in Greece. This was a high priority for the Partizan movement because it would enable the recruitment and mobilization of parents, both men and women, to fight; while older men and older women would be free to transport the wounded and the dead; to act as medics; to carry arms and munitions; to bake bread and fish and to dig ditches. In January 1948 a representative of the Greek communist party was assigned to secure Yugoslav authority

      'so pushka na ruka i Makedonia vo srtse'

    • Profile preview
      Tasho Alusheff Rating:
      neutral
      #157 02, 32, Wed, Jun 10 2009

      From the Book: 'My Name is Sotir' by Olga Naumoff as told to her by Sotir Nitchov, Sotir States: “The ugly character of war was beginning to leave its imprint on us. Yet, the world knew little and cared less about us. Our lives and deaths were of no consequence to others, particularly the Greeks under whose regime we had suffered for decades. To those powerful world leaders in whose hands our destiny lay, our land, and our people were mere pawns to be used to their advantage in their war games. Where were the journalists, the photographers, the reporters [...]

      Read the full comment from the outside world? All sides used us to achieve their own ends, while men like my father gave his life's blood fighting for every Macedonian's ideal. Is it unreasonable; is it treasonable to want to live with dignity, a free man? Is it unreasonable for him to speak the language he had heard from the cradle, listening to the lullabies his mother and grandmother sang to him in their precious language? Is it sacrilegious for him to listen to the Old Macedonian Slavonic liturgy, which is still heard throughout the world, and to worship in the language of his father, and his father's father, and their ancestors, spoken beyond the reaches of time? Can it be illegal to read our history, to celebrate our creativity, to sing our songs, to have pride in our heroes and heroines, to know of our cultural background? Where were you, oh world, when we needed you so that you could see how we lived, to understand our pain, to lead us out of the days of darkness and oppression we thought were behind us when the Ottomans were defeated ? Empty promises of a free, independent, united Macedonia were dangled before us by the Germans, Bulgarians, Yugoslavs, Greeks, aided and abetted by Great Britain, and/or the Soviet Union. You let Macedonia become the setting for one of the bloodiest massacres in recent history. Turning their pent-up fury against us, the Greeks not only killed and tortured our people; they burned our homes, destroyed our farmlands and indiscriminately and dispassionately slaughtered our defenseless animals. No one in the free world paid much attention. Who had ever heard of Macedonians, so why should anyone care? Macedonians simply didn't exist! The fruits of the ambition of these countries were left in Macedonia to rot. Propped up by the British, the Greeks, rising from the ashes, could not help but rejoice in their hearts that the Macedonians were being cleansed out of their own land."

      'so pushka na ruka i Makedonia vo srtse'

    • Profile preview
      Tasho Alusheff Rating:
      neutral
      #156 02, 31, Wed, Jun 10 2009

      I can't believe how you people are lamblasting the detsa begaltsi, Peter. His story is real. It happened. he is who and what he says he is...a makedonski from Lerinsko who is NOT a greek!.

      No one has paid more for the sins of their fathers than the children of the Macedonians in Greece, who fought with the communists during the Greek Civil War. More than half a century later, the struggle that pitted leftists against the western-backed government forces has not been forgotten. The Macedonian minority's desire to carve out an autonomous state during that [...]

      Read the full comment war raises suspicion even now. During the years 1946-1949 in Greece the forces of the King pronounced the Greeks of Macedonian origin living in Northern Greece as Communist rebels and started a frightful genocide against them. Yet, these Macedonians, who were claimed to be rebels, had bravely fought against the Nazis during the German occupation. Nevertheless, in Aegean Macedonia 16 thousand people were killed, 440 women and girls were raped, 120 thousand people were tortured in concentration camps, hundreds of them losing their minds as a result of the torture, 1291 houses were set on fire, 80 villages were plundered, and thousands of them became displaced. Upon these events, the Macedonian people had to protect themselves from genocide and resorted to organized and armed resistance against the chauvinist policies of the Greek administration. In 1948, in the midst of the civil war the Royal Greek forces, with the US and British air support, started to kill the Macedonians in masses. 30 thousand Macedonians, 28 thousand of which were children, had to find shelter in Eastern European countries 2200 went to Albania, 2600 to Bulgaria, 10,000 to Yugoslavia, 3800 in Romania, 3000 to Hungary another 2500 to Czechoslovakia. The reason was to save the children from possible atrocities by the nationalist Greek forces against them. In the early 1950s, some 9,000 such children were repatriated. Most of those "children refugees" were reportedly ethnic Macedonian. In 1949, after the end of the civil war, many soldiers of the Democratic Army also fled to the communist countries to avoid reprisals

      'so pushka na ruka i Makedonia vo srtse'

    • AnonymousPellaWed, Jun 03 2009

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      AnonymousPeterSun, Apr 05 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous neutral
      #153 12, 15, Thu, Apr 02 2009

      Janet - I've got David Holden's book "Greece without Columns" now, and have read half-way through it. As a professional journalist, he was clearly at home passing criticisms, in this case on the Saudi Arabs as well as the Greeks (how he got the Arabs in this book I don't know, but he did.)
      I can well see that he might have upset a fair number of people, and if "philotimo" comes into it, some of them might have considered direct action in return. So, in short, much as his book is in many ways well-researched (especially for [...]

      Read the full comment the years 1800-1930), I can well understand why somebody might have wanted him killed. And did so.

      (In passing, I could have written a similar book about Poland myself, but since I wanted to be able to re-enter the country safely, I didn't)

    • Anonymous neutral
      #152 12, 59, Sun, Mar 29 2009

      Janet - I'm not sure yet whether the book will be more educational than Peter's posts, but it'll certainly be much better written ! (The author was a top-class journalist after all, even though he ended up being asassinated by some vested interest that he had upset, and we are still not entirely sure who that was. There is a "short-list", but I shan't comment on that yet until I have read the book, which is on order and which will arrive shortly at my address. I don't know if you have access to "Amazon" internet booksellers, but they are [...]

      Read the full comment very efficient. Maybe Peter should read a book or two before posting again..)

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #151 02, 32, Sun, Mar 29 2009

      How very intriguing, I always thought the Government of Athens was a passive one following the motto "video et taceo", "I see and I am silent". You'll have to tell us all about the book as it will be more interesting (and maybe educational) than one of Peter's posts. But have no fear, I'm sure the gypsy's curse will kick in sooner or later. xoxo

    • Anonymous neutral
      #150 18, 37, Sat, Mar 28 2009

      Janet (sorry to do a Peter and post the same message twice, but it's a serious one) - there may genuinely be a bit more to this 'curse' business than we had thought. One of the names Peter quotes - David Holden -was assassinated in Cairo in 1977 after having written a book critical of post-1945 Greece and its government and treatment of minorities. (Look it up in Google if you want to check.) I've taken steps to get hold of a second-hand copy of the book, so I'd rather not post any more till I've read it and formed [...]

      Read the full comment my own view. (David Holden until his death was Chief Foreign Correspondent of the Sunday Times, the UK's most serious Sunday newspaper, so he was no amateur sleuth, but an investigative professional.)

    • Anonymous neutral
      #149 13, 51, Sat, Mar 28 2009

      Thanks, Peter; clearly the Curse has not yet worked. There may well be a couple of good points hidden in your monumental contributions, but under present circumstances we cannot identify them. As Clement Attlee said "A period of silence on your part would be most welcome"

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #148 03, 36, Sat, Mar 28 2009

      To David,here is one of your paragraph;"Theories which have no relevance and do not apply you are interpreting modern linguistic usages whereby a citizen of any modern state might be utilising that nations language as the functional "franca lingua" and not necessary belongs to that etnic group, and in todays 21st century world, you are correct. Here is a quote from Polybius "speakers of same language"whith which the Greek fellow qanted to use as proof that Ancient Macedonians spoke the same language as the Ancient Greeks and thus,they must be classed as Greeks. Now, these same Greeks are burning the [...]

      Read the full comment candle from the other end and want to argue the point but this time, since it suits their purpose, in the opposite direction: namely that "linguistic criteria are not only insufficient to denote etnic naunces in the Balkans but they can be misleading". Greeks are the true students of the art of manipulation. As a matter of fact, you have not only mastered the art of manipulating the text but have brought it to another level, the level of highest distinction. Like so many other things that you Greeks have invented this, the art of fabrication,is deservedly yours. Dr. Thomas Arnold,the founder of the school "Ethos" in 19th century in England, suggested that fabricating Greek legents will profoundly bimprove the English image, even more than the Greek image. David Holder was the chief foreigne corespondent for the Londin Sunday Times. He revealed in his book "Greece without Columns" that the Greek treasured assumption is a delusion and Greek legent wishfull fantasies". A Greek professor of archeology Manolis Andronicos wrote;" Macedonia should be considered the cradle of human history." The English statesman William Gladstons noblr cry was "Macedonia for the Macedonians" Captain P.H. Evans on Sept. 16,1943 was dropped into Northern Greece, as British liason officer.In short,he knew nothing about Macedonia,like all foreigners who had been hoodwinked by official Greek propaganda.He expected to find only Greek but instead he found a Macedonian World. He wrote "The Balkan region is Macedonia by nature and not Greek".He observed that the Greek language in Northern Greece was regarded as a foreigne language and not the Greek were distrusted as something alien in the frell sense of the word and viewed as foreigners in Macedonia". In the 1922-26 exchange of people between Greece and Turkey,the real exchange was on religious grounds,not on ethnicity.This is true even from before.In the book "The Vlahs,the history of the Balkan people" on page 139 T. J.Winifrith says:"One of Greeces first and best Prime Ministers was John Kolettis, a Vlah who dressed like a Turk and had been court physician to Ali Pasha"On pages 119 and 120 same Author says "Elswhere there is a further source of confusion with massive immigration of Albanians into Greece, this is the true identity of the Modern Greeks.In the days when Modern Greece was molded into a nation,Vlahs, a latin speaking people, and Albanians were the primery sources of raw materials for the "making of the Modern Greeks". Lets get back to the question of Macedonia and Macedonians.Not long ago Greek Ambassador to Macedonia,Mrs.Dora Grosomanidou was promptly fired for her statement that "Athens should ackmowledge the fact there are Macedonians living there as well as that Macedonia has been around before Greece was."The Athens museum curator was fired for refusing to hide Macedonian relics. Vallianatos was fired by Papandreu for advocating that there are Macedonians in Greece. Athena Skoulariki a sociology professor at the University of Crete says,"The Greek arguments are not convincing because it is fundamental right of all people to freely choose their name. We insist that our neighbor has no right to use the name Macedonia,ignoring the fact that durring the 19th and 20th century there was a wider region called Macedonia." Approximatly 40 years ago there was a research done on languages in Europe,and it was found that the Macedonian language was on its own on the tree of languages. The question that comes ones mind is;Why is there a problem for Greece with Northern Greece but not elsewhere,also why Greece setled the Pontious in Greek Macedonia as opose to inland in proper Greece? What was the real purpose? These people did not even spoke Greek as long as 1948 that I know of. Isocrates and Demosthenes were right when they made the distinction between the Hellens and Macedonians in 337 BC.Once more,you cannot burn the candle from both ends and expect not to get burned.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #147 12, 27, Fri, Mar 27 2009

      to KL - vampires certainly respect a gypsy's curse and never ignore it, but sometimes override it if wider considerations prevail. So Peter, whilst already subject to the gypsy's curse, could still be subject to an unexpected night-time visit from the Undead in addition. I recommend Peter covers all windows and doors with garlic cloves and sleeps with a Crucifix and Holy Water by his bedside. Of course this is not always 100% effective, but it helps. A sharp stake or two can also be useful.

    • Anonymous
      KL Rating:
      neutral
      #146 02, 00, Fri, Mar 27 2009

      Peter Janovski, you have been cursed by a gypsy, if I'm correct (Dr Cornelius correct me if I'm wrong) even Vampires fear a gypsy's curse and tend to leave them along. I really do feel sorry for you Peter, I remember a guy who got arthritis after being cursed by a gypsy.

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #145 16, 48, Thu, Mar 26 2009

      I wonder,why you Greeks are so obsest with Macedonia.Why is Macedonia on your everyday thought,but never Peloponesos or Sterea Ellada being mentioned.There must be a good reason for this,right? Well,I can tell you why to you Greeks and you Cornelius,Macedonia never belonged to Greece,that is the very reason. For too long,Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria are claiming,Macedonia belongs to them.All I know,Macedonia belongs to the Macedonians. We are not Serbs,neither Bulgars nor Greek,what is there you people dont understand?.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #144 13, 44, Thu, Mar 26 2009

      Apologies for posting the "Cursing Psalm" (Ps 109 new numbering, 108 old) in Latin, but I couldn't get the Greek version to download onto this site. Anyway, the original Greek first line is "O Theos tin ainesin mou me parasiopisis " - again apologies for my transliteration; I can read Greek OK, but don't know the conventions for putting it into Latin script.

    • Anonymous
      Ben Rating:
      neutral
      #143 23, 29, Wed, Mar 25 2009

      Are you feeling any pain Peter? I feel sorry for you, gypsy curses are quite potent. Oh well, I guess you can go die under your mommy's skirt

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #142 23, 14, Wed, Mar 25 2009

      Oh dear Peter, not only are you in the bad books of the Greek Mafia but it also appears that a gypsy has cursed you. I don't believe in the super natural but unfortunately for you Peter there seems to be some substance to gypsy curses....you poor fellow. I wonder what malaties and misfortunes you shall suffer thanks to your immaturity and detestable character. The last time I heard someone get cursed by a gypsy the person went blind and suffered a flesh eating disease....good luck Peter Janovski, enjoy your curse.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #141 22, 08, Wed, Mar 25 2009

      Peter - my academic credentials are from the Universities of Leyden, Krakow, and Cambridge (UK), though that is no concern of yours. If anyone is going to do a curse properly, use Psalm 109 (108 in the Greek and Latin Bibles). Full text follows in Latin (but be warned - used in Latin it works !)
      It starts at verse 2:

      2 Deus, laudem meam ne tacueris,
      quia os peccatoris et os dolosi super me apertum est.
      3 Locuti sunt adversum me lingua dolosa,
      et sermonibus odii circumdederunt [...]

      Read the full comment me:
      et expugnaverunt me gratis.
      4 Pro eo ut me diligerent, detrahebant mihi;
      ego autem orabam.
      5 Et posuerunt adversum me mala pro bonis,
      et odium pro dilectione mea.
      6 Constitue super eum peccatorem,
      et diabolus stet a dextris ejus.
      7 Cum judicatur, exeat condemnatus;
      et oratio ejus fiat in peccatum.
      8 Fiant dies ejus pauci,
      et episcopatum ejus accipiat alter.
      9 Fiant filii ejus orphani,
      et uxor ejus vidua.
      10 Nutantes transferantur filii ejus et mendicent,
      et ejiciantur de habitationibus suis.
      11 Scrutetur fœnerator omnem substantiam ejus,
      et diripiant alieni labores ejus.
      12 Non sit illi adjutor,
      nec sit qui misereatur pupillis ejus.
      13 Fiant nati ejus in interitum;
      in generatione una deleatur nomen ejus.
      14 In memoriam redeat iniquitas patrum ejus in conspectu Domini,
      et peccatum matris ejus non deleatur.
      15 Fiant contra Dominum semper,
      et dispereat de terra memoria eorum:
      16 pro eo quod non est recordatus facere misericordiam,
      17 et persecutus est hominem inopem et mendicum,
      et compunctum corde, mortificare.
      18 Et dilexit maledictionem, et veniet ei;
      et noluit benedictionem, et elongabitur ab eo.
      Et induit maledictionem sicut vestimentum;
      et intravit sicut aqua in interiora ejus,
      et sicut oleum in ossibus ejus.
      19 Fiat ei sicut vestimentum quo operitur,
      et sicut zona qua semper præcingitur.
      20 Hoc opus eorum qui detrahunt mihi apud Dominum,
      et qui loquuntur mala adversus animam meam.
      21 Et tu, Domine, Domine, fac mecum propter nomen tuum,
      quia suavis est misericordia tua.
      22 Libera me, quia egenus et pauper ego sum,
      et cor meum conturbatum est intra me.
      23 Sicut umbra cum declinat ablatus sum,
      et excussus sum sicut locustæ.
      24 Genua mea infirmata sunt a jejunio,
      et caro mea immutata est propter oleum.
      25 Et ego factus sum opprobrium illis;
      viderunt me, et moverunt capita sua.
      26 Adjuva me, Domine Deus meus;
      salvum me fac secundum misericordiam tuam.
      27 Et sciant quia manus tua hæc,
      et tu, Domine, fecisti eam.
      28 Maledicent illi, et tu benedices:
      qui insurgunt in me confundantur;
      servus autem tuus lætabitur.
      29 Induantur qui detrahunt mihi pudore,
      et operiantur sicut diploide confusione sua.
      30 Confitebor Domino nimis in ore meo,
      et in medio multorum laudabo eum:
      31 quia astitit a dextris pauperis,
      ut salvam faceret a persequentibus animam meam

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #140 21, 41, Wed, Mar 25 2009

      What is eating you Greeks,the truth? Jakov,KL, Cornelius are you from the movie the "Apes"?You sure sound like it.It takes one Macedonian to make the Greeks go nuts over the history you Greeks fabricate. By the way Cornelius,if you are a Dr. you would at least write something of substance. Once more you Greeks and Greek supporters, you can go and fabricate the history,it will haunt you till death. Here is why I say hiding under your mothers skirt;Using my name on Mar. 23,2009 at 13:37.This comment was not expressed by me. This is the reason I say you are [...]

      Read the full comment cowards to use your own names.

    • Anonymous
      Jakov Rating:
      neutral
      #139 15, 31, Wed, Mar 25 2009

      I am a gypsy who has been paid to put a curse on Peter Janovski. The curse may only be broken when I die. The sun rises and sets, may it be so onto you Peter Janovski.

    • Anonymous
      KL Rating:
      neutral
      #138 09, 36, Wed, Mar 25 2009

      For the Macedonian people there is one thing they must do;Send Peter Janovksi to Hell on a one way ticket.He betrayed his Macedonian identity to the fanatical diaspora .I would not be suprised if the Government of Skopje executes him for spreading hate between the Macedonians and Greeks. Cursed be Peter Janovski!

    • Anonymous neutral
      #137 20, 41, Tue, Mar 24 2009

      Let us look at the Good News - Peter has managed to say all that without mentioning "His Mommy's Skirts" once (somebody should send him a prize for this achievement !)

      The Bad News is that, despite his earlier promise, Peter keeps ranting on about the same subject. Oh Moderator, where art thou ?

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #136 18, 50, Tue, Mar 24 2009

      Janet,I could not by-pass your comment.You and President Crvenkovski should get a one way ticket to Athens and never return! You are supporting Crvenkovski who has sold out the Republic of Macedoniatogether with Frckovski and yourself. Yes,I am in the diaspora,but proud ethnic Macedonian. Yes,I do get pissed from people like you and your friends because you are selling your own skin to please the Greeks who are not even recognising you as a human being.If you are in Macedonia,you know very well,people have their rights to express themselfs who they are without fear like in Greece.My last wish would [...]

      Read the full comment be for you,Crvenkovski and Frckovski to get a one way ticket to Athens and never to return!.I beg you,read the document the UN rep.on Greeces Human Rihgts Abuses.Read the latest what Greece is attempting to tell the UN on this matter.Lets stop the bull and get to the truth.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #135 11, 10, Mon, Mar 23 2009

      Hang on folks - at the very end of Peter's latest diatribe there is a bit that reads "This comment will be my last to you". I am not sure whether to read this as a threat or a promise ! As a previous British Prime Minister (Lord Attlee) once told one of his Ministerial colleagues: "A period of silence on your part would be welcome". This rather applies to Peter too....

    • Anonymous
      Mak Rating:
      neutral
      #134 06, 01, Mon, Mar 23 2009

      Another boring post by Peter Janovski, did any one make it past the first word? Peter you need profession help, go see a psychologist

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #133 05, 57, Mon, Mar 23 2009

      PLEASE, PLEASE for the sake of further embarrassment to yourself STOP using that phrase!!!

      Do you understand no one who speaks the English language tells another to hide under a skirt??????????? You are no doubt socially challenged

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #132 05, 54, Mon, Mar 23 2009

      You are an IDIOT! I'm from the Republic of Macedonia. I have only mentioned in nearly all my posts. Oh and by the way Julia has declared your Macedonia nationality as null and void and being an ethnic Macedonia myself I reserve the right to do the same. Seriously Peter, you fanatical diaspora are not true Macedonians, your views are out of vogue here in Macedonia.

      Do go away and shut up for once or just die

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #131 04, 06, Mon, Mar 23 2009

      What is the matter with you Greeks,have I touched a nerve on the question of Macedonia?. Katerina and Janet, you both are in Greece,right? Did you see the discussion on the Greek TV "Alter" Atheatos kosmos on March 10th,2009?The question was: Pii pezun me tis mionotites stin Ellada ke giati.Did you sean it? Did you hear what Mr. Vallianatos ,Pavle Voskopulos,Athanasios Parisi were telling the people of Greece?Did you see the clips the moderator had shown?Do you know what Miss. MacDougal reported on Greeces Human Rignts? Never mind if I say something you dont like,just see and hear what the [...]

      Read the full comment United Nations Rep. said about your dear Greece.The opponents to Vallianatos Voskopulos and Parisi,did you hear what they were saying?wasnt that disgracfull?. The MP from the LAOS party is a real jurk.Onother one said that the Macedonians were fighting the Nazis better than the Greeks,why did he make that distingtion?yet does not recognizes the Macedonian ethnicity. Who the hell are you to deny me my ethnicity? If you Greeks are so obsest with me,to me it meand I do hit the nail on the head. Why is a Greek making comments using my internet name? Them I tell hiding under their momys skirt,I am not telling anybody else.If you want to believe,I am telling you,it is up to you what you want to believe. This comment will be my last to you,if you want to continue,go ahead enjoy yourself.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #130 17, 21, Sun, Mar 22 2009

      Janet -
      Forgive my slightly British sense of humour (acquired at Cambridge after 12 years studying demonology at the Dutch University of Leyden), but you are quite right about Peter. From a few facts that he has let drop, he is probably posting from "across the pond", in other words from somewhere in Canada or the USA. But what he has said/posted is quite unacceptable in blogging terms or even in simple personal etiquette, and it is about time that the Sofia Echo adopted a more proactive policy on active 'moderation' of their website, which is otherwise relatively [...]

      Read the full comment well run. (HINT !)

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #129 15, 48, Sun, Mar 22 2009

      After what he wrote a couple of posts down? Sitting behind a computer sure does embolden some people doesn't it? I would like to see Peter say those things in front of actual people instead of a computer screen....viagra will certainly not be the only medicine he will be needing.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #128 15, 07, Sun, Mar 22 2009

      Janet -
      So I take it you don't like him then ?

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #127 14, 50, Sun, Mar 22 2009

      Peter that is perhaps the most disgusting thin I ever heard uttered from one's mouth. I'm starting to understand why Katerina wishes to fight you to the death. At this rate you'll have a bounty on your head in no time old man. Thank god you are an old man and death is on the horizon for you. hahaha, will the world miss Peter Janovski's psychotic posts? It I'm correct the world tends to forget about those who have pasted on, death is bittersweet. Rot in hell Peter Janovski where there is no Macedonian, no Greek nor no race for [...]

      Read the full comment such places care not of your ethnicity.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #126 21, 59, Sat, Mar 21 2009

      Far far worse - I am sorry that I overlooked this - but tonight (21/22 March) is the Spring Equinox, during which time all manner of unwelcome spirits may be roaming at night. Bar your doors, put the garlic in place, and pray that Peter does not get in.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #125 10, 09, Sat, Mar 21 2009

      The full moon is approaching, and Peter is showing all the signs of lunacy and impending lycanthropy. I think I had better start sharpening my "stakeholder's" stake now. Meanwhile, I suggest that all on this blogsite should position garlic above their outer doors and acquire a crucifix or two, as vampires like Peter can "teleport" themselves to wherever in the world that they like. (I warned fellow-posters about this earlier.)

    • AnonymousPeterSat, Mar 21 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Vasilios Rating:
      neutral
      #123 04, 48, Sat, Mar 21 2009

      Janet and Julia, how about this: you can yourselves Macedonian so long as we can call ourselves Macedonian except for Peter Janovski. Peter Janovski has no right be called Macedonian

    • Anonymous
      Julia Rating:
      neutral
      #122 04, 39, Sat, Mar 21 2009

      Peter I agree with Janet, you are the very reason why Greeks hate Macedonians and the Republic of Macedonia, spreading racism, ultra-nationalism, and false facts on our neighbours. As a citizen of the Republic of Macedonia, I hereby declare your Macedonian nationality null and void.

    • Anonymous
      Meg Rating:
      neutral
      #121 04, 28, Sat, Mar 21 2009

      Oh dear Peter, it looks like even a Skopjan thinks that you are not Macedonian! Hahahaha, how very amusing, if the Greeks don't believe you are a Macedonian national and if one of your own countrymen do not believe you are true Macedonian then I do believe you have an identity crisis on your hands!

    • AnonymousJanetSat, Mar 21 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #119 03, 33, Sat, Mar 21 2009

      Good Morning Janet!This is Peter.I will tell you what,I dont hate people,but I do hate comments that are not true.Further,I do remember a lot from the Old country.The blood suckers like Gizas,Sarandopulos amd Lantzakis for killing a 15 year old boy.Just one question:Do you think,Lantzakis was a hero for taking a childs life?. Please,dont threaten me with your mafia.I wont bore you this time,but read what the mother of this boy said about her sons death"Gospo da rechi,Lantzako da nese izradva so negovata famelia" These were the words this mother said about Lantzakis.Well,he did have 4 innocent sons,but 2 were [...]

      Read the full comment shut in Toronto by the mafia at the hotel, one drawoned,and the 4th was shut by the mafia.Now,I am not making this comment againts the boys,but what goes around,comes around.Lantzakis saw the outcome before he died.Now, I have done nothing wrong to anyone,I only defend my rights as a Macedonian national.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #118 16, 52, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      Peter - Just one afterthought. Should you be setting up a limited company, I should be hono(u)red to be invited to become a "stakeholder" in your enterprise, whether it be in Transylvania or elsewhere.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #117 10, 47, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      Well, Peter, Bravo. Not only have you managed to make enemies with the Greek Mafia (perhaps the stupidest thing you have done thus far) and to have curses sworn on you but it looks like David has just threatened to stick a stake through your heart. Put aside David's entertaining comedy, I do believe what goes around comes around and sitting behind your computer screen won't protect you forever. Greece has human rights issues but you have psychological issues and the former can be fixed one day however the latter probably won't ever get resolved.

      Are [...]

      Read the full comment you going to tell me to hide under my mother's skirt again? Beware Peter Janovski, you never know when Katerina will pull a "Kill Bill" on you or when Dr Cornelius Van Helsing beheads that unholy head of yours (do cut out the tongue). XOXO

    • Anonymous neutral
      #116 10, 23, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      Peter - your obsession with blood and allotypes strongly suggests that you are one of the Undead, and able to scale castle walls unaided (except by your black cloak). Also your reflection will not show in a mirror, which given the length of your vulpine teeth is probably a Good Thing. Luckily you are only able to function at night - hence the disparity in times of posting about which you complained - but you can easily "teleport" yourself from one location to another (as your relative Count Dracula did in Bram Stoker's account, and the UK town of Whitby [...]

      Read the full comment has never been the same since !) Can I suggest that you return to Transylvania whence you and all your kin lie in their unquiet graves, otherwise I shall be obliged to seek you out with crucifix and sharpened stake.

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #115 08, 28, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      The person who is embarast to use his/her name is 6 hours ahead of me according to his comment of Fri, Mar 20 2009 07:11CET.My poor little boy or girl,I gues you are somwhere in Europe and I in North America,too bad.You are good copier of others comments,b r a v o!

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #114 07, 11, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      The person who is embarast to use his/her name is 6 hours ahead of me according to his comment of Mar. 20th time 06:14CET.My poor little boy or girl,I gues you are somwhere in Europe and I in North America,too bad.You are good copier of others comments,b r a v o!

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #113 06, 14, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      First of all,I like to make it clear,the comment made on Fri, Mar 20 2009 05:35 am was not my comment.This comments purpose is just to embaras me.The person who does this is a whimp.Ok! Let me refresh your knowledge on genetics frpm the “HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks” HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing.HLA-A,-B,-DR,-DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first tome determined and the results compared to those of other Meditereneans,particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances,neighbor-joining dendrograms [...]

      Read the full comment and corerespondencr analysis have been performed.The following concusions have been reached:1)Macedonians belong to the “older” Mediterranean substatum,like Iberians(including Basques),North Africans,Italians, French, Jews,Lebanese, Turks(Anatolians),Armenians and Iranians. 2)Macedonians are not related with geografically close Greeks,who do not belong to the “older”Mediterraneansubstratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan(Ethiopian) people,which separates them from other Mediterranean groups.Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 allels,such as 0305,0307,0411,0413,0416,0417,0420,1110,1112,1304 and 1310.Genetic distancese are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finaly Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondences analyses.The time oeriod when these relationships might have occured was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. I wonder if both professor Miller and professor Tompkins have looked at these results and if they do believe in scientific discoveries, The notion that the Macedonians were or are connected to the ancient or present day Greeks is absurd.The historians of 337 BC who wrote history as events were happening is the true history.What I mean is Isocrates letter and Demosthenes written comment on the battle of Chaeronea, both are very explicit.Today, Greeks like to burn the candle from both end,and expect not to get burned.?

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #112 05, 35, Fri, Mar 20 2009

      Well, what can I say.I might be boring,but what about the person who is pretending it is me? Here are the comments I have not written;March 07,00:30,Mar.10,2:11, Mar.10,00:00,Mar.10,23:52,Mar.12,00:57,Mar.11,13:03 Mar.19,08:19 Mar.19,23:28. I must say,the comments made on my behalf,I almost believed them....in your dreams.We live in a free society where we have freedom of speach.I wish Greece has freedom of speach,ha ha ha! Have you at least read the letter of the FM Milososki? It is self explanatory.Greece is running scared from a tiny little country of Macedonia.Dot you wory,I wont be boring you,but read the letter from Milososki to [...]

      Read the full comment Dora Bakoyannis.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #111 23, 18, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      (Sorry to post twice in succession - I know it's bad blogging practice, and I apologise for so doing.) Janet has a very good point about Peter "rising from the Dead" - is he going to return to haunt us as a Vampire ("Upior" in Polish, Peter), and should we therefore arm ourselves with stakes and garlic ? (At this point I should really sign myself as my "alter ego" Cornelius Van Helsing, but it is bad blogging practice to suddenly change one's identity; isn't it so, Peter ?)

    • Anonymous neutral
      #110 22, 59, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Have to say that I completely agree with Janet on this occasion.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #109 22, 42, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Where have I heard that one before? I think we have realized by now you like to play the victim here by pretending that someone pretending to be you. You have used this technique so many times that anyone can see right through you. It was very mature for 60 something year old man who apparently has grandchildren to call me a whore, accuse me of having AIDS and that I hide under my mother's skirt.

      And David is right, this phrase you like to use, "hide under your mom's skirt" sounds like something from the [...]

      Read the full comment Victorian Age and sounds quite pathetic at the least. And don't try to deny that you don't say this because Mr Janovski if you look down the page only the posts with your name seem to have this phrase including ones addressed to Katerina. Do get a life and start acting like your age.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #108 17, 35, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Can I please point out to Peter (whichever one) that "hiding under a mother's skirts" simple isn't an expression used in either US or UK English, not at least for the last 500 years. (Most mothers these days in the UK wear jeans, anyway.) If this expression is very dear to the author - and it hac certainly cropped up on this site pretty frequently - please express it in its original language (and I shall charge my usual fee to translate !) Many thanks - Blagodrija - Spasibo - Dziekuje - Aciu labai - Efkaristo - Teshekur Ederim [...]

      Read the full comment

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #107 16, 14, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      First of all, the comment of Mar. 19th,at 08:19 is not my. I did not write this one.This is not the only comment I did not write with my name on.This is exacly the point I have been making,who ever uses someonelses name to make a derogatory comment, yes,this person is hiding under his momys skirt.I say this because there is no other way to expresse it.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #106 10, 17, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Peter - a word in Polish : "Stulpisk" (translation: Shut Up.) You had one good point to make - the "Joint Greek/Macedonian Committee on Education and History" sounds worth following up - but accusing fellow bloggers of VD and AIDS is not normally the world's best way of pursuing an argument.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #105 08, 22, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Oh grow up Peter...take a hint and bow out gracefully. The curtains have be drawn closed and your act is over. xoxo

    • AnonymousPeterThu, Mar 19 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #103 08, 15, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Oh dear, Peter is still alive and spitting out bullish posts. Thank god nature will eventually take its course and we shall hear from Mr Janovski. This is one of the benefits of death especially when the dead can't ever come back. xoxo

    • Anonymous
      Greg Rating:
      neutral
      #102 07, 30, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      Peter,why are you so DULL and clueless???

    • AnonymousTo Peter JanovskiThu, Mar 19 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Meg Rating:
      neutral
      #100 07, 27, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      A big YAWN

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #99 03, 12, Thu, Mar 19 2009

      FM of Macedonia letter to his counterpart Dora Bakoyannis; "In line with the principales of the Interim Accord of 1995,FM Milososki once again advocates the two countries to sign a Declaration of friendship,good neighborliness and cooperation" " In this respect he suggests for the two countries to set up a Joint Committee for Education and History. Taking educational and multi-perspective approach to the Balkan history may play a significantrole in the reconciliation with the past by preventing utilization of historic events for stirring up future misunderstandings".Milososki says. Athens has not responded ,but by the comments of Mr. Koumoutsakos,does not look [...]

      Read the full comment like Greece is willing to solve historical missunderstandings between the two countries.The Greeks have rejected this very same suggestion before.Greece knows, historical claims by Greece are falsified and therefore there is no incentive for them to disscuss history.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #98 16, 10, Wed, Mar 18 2009

      Thanks for the translation David, but just as I had hypothesized earlier, it sounded more interesting in Polish than in "Peteranglish". Sounds like Mr Janovski is in his 60s which makes perfect sense as to why he sounds like a cranky old man and as to why he backed out of fight with the Greek mafia to the south.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #97 11, 05, Wed, Mar 18 2009

      Peter's posts are far too long, and it doesn't help that he partly expresses himself in Polish. I can translate what he says, but under 'professional' rules that mean I add no comment of my own, nor should my translation be taken as either approval or disapproval of what he says. The summary of what he says is as follows:

      (Original text: David moj uszanovani,Denerwuje mnie kiedy ktosz movio ze nie jestem Macedonczykiem.Denerwuje mnie kiedy ktosz mnie zycie najgorszego tak jak Katerina.Denerwuje mnie oni co uzywajo moje imie w tej stroni. David,ja bylem w Polsce 7 [...]

      Read the full comment lat,tam uczylem 4 jezykow,ale puzniej 54 lat kiedy nie mowysz jezyka sie zapomina.Dziszaj, uzywam Macedonskiego i Angielskiego jezykow). Summary translation: "I am annoyed when somebody says I am not a Macedonian. I am also annoyed when somebody wishes me the worst like Katerina, and also when somebody ill-wishes me from that side. I was 7 years in Poland, learned 4 languages, but 54 years later when one doesn't speak a language one tends to forget it. Today I just use Macedonian and English languages" (end of translation)

    • Anonymous
      Troy Rating:
      neutral
      #96 00, 12, Wed, Mar 18 2009

      Congratulation to Peter on the most boring post on cyberspace

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #95 00, 08, Wed, Mar 18 2009

      To Peter: BORING!

    • Anonymous
      KL Rating:
      neutral
      #94 00, 06, Wed, Mar 18 2009

      Sorry Peter, I'm an evolutionists and genetists all the way and the only way what you're saying is true would be if a least a million years has past! Genes just don't disappear like magic unless a aliens came along and abducted the ancient Greeks. You don't even see what you're describing in other species on Earth, not even bacteria who mutate every second!

      But hands up to the most boring post ever

    • AnonymousTo Peter JanovskiWed, Mar 18 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #92 18, 10, Tue, Mar 17 2009

      David moj uszanovani,Denerwuje mnie kiedy ktosz movio ze nie jestem Macedonczykiem.Denerwuje mnie kiedy ktosz mnie zycie najgorszego tak jak Katerina.Denerwuje mnie oni co uzywajo moje imie w tej stroni. David,ja bylem w Polsce 7 lat,tam uczylem 4 jezykow,ale puzniej 54 lat kiedy nie mowysz jezyka sie zapomina.Dziszaj, uzywam Macedonskiego i Angielskiego jezykow. Now than,as I said it burnes my ass when the so-called Greeks pretend to be what they realy have no connection,both with the Hellenic ancestry and with the Macedonian.The HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origib of the Greeks was done in Spain by;A.Amaiz,K. Dimitroski,A. Pacho,J. Moscoso,E. [...]

      Read the full comment Gomez-Casado, C. Silvera-Redondo, P. Varela, M. Blagoevska, V. Zdravkovska, J.Martinez-Laso. This reaserch was done at the "Departement of Immunology and Molecular Biology,H.12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain,Tissue Typing laboratory. Institute of Blood Trasfusion,Skopje, Republic of Macedonia. The E-Mail for the University is; e-mail:aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es. The Macedonian government has invited the Balkan historians to go through the history and put this matter to rest,but Greece refused to participate,of course we know why. I do realise that, I do repeat my stories,but they are true to the word. When a question arises on the Macedonia being Greek,I just cannot stand the lies.On the question of the Macedonian minority in Greece,I lived through it.Yes I was only 12 years old,but a 12 year old boy at that time in comparason to today is twice the difference.I used to get up at 4 am to go to plow the fields with my older brother,then had to take the srear to the posture till 8 pm.These were our dayly chores.I have mentioned the blood thursty Gizas,he used the butt of the gun to beat my mother,does anyone expects me to cool off?
      The atrocities they were commiting are unbareble.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #91 09, 53, Tue, Mar 17 2009

      Janet - no, I don't read Peter's posts any more either ! KL - you have an interesting 'flip' attitude to international politics, but possibly a little superficial. The real 'crunch' on whether one small EU member-state can veto the accession of another one will come sooner than we think, namely the current Slovenian veto on Croatian accession over the marine boundary around Piran. There will be great pressure to alter the EU rules so as to neutralise the Slovenian veto, and if this happens the Greek veto over the Macedonian "name" issue will fall too. A pity in a [...]

      Read the full comment way, as the Slovenes have quite a good case over Piran, and (unlike Greece) they have behaved impeccably well ever since they joined the EU.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #90 07, 07, Tue, Mar 17 2009

      Peter, you have written the same thing over again. Please come up with something new (perhaps more interesting for us to read) or do shut up.

      Also, I think David mentioned before that in terms of behaviour, people tend not read long posts like those belonging you.

      So taking into the account the repetitive nature of your posts and the great length, I believe you are the only one who reads your posts unless David reads them then that makes two out of all of cyperspace.

      Also, I [...]

      Read the full comment am Macedonia but at the same time I don't mind if Greeks residing in their province of Macedonia identify themselves as Macedonians nor the fact they believe in their ancestral relationship with the ancient Macedonians. Until we learn to share Macedonia then I'm afraid KL maybe right, there can only be one winner and all you're numerous posts a big waste or your time or more correctly your life.

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #89 00, 02, Tue, Mar 17 2009

      Meg,I dont usualy use language like this in my daily life,but Katerina used bad language on me.She wished me death,she called me a lier etc.Look,I am Macedonian who was taken by the commies in cooperation with the Greek government to get read of the whole generation of Macedonians from Greece. This is why I do write and masticate same over and over.It does bother me,when I am not even allowed to visit my hometown,unles I declair by ethnicity is Greek.Durring the Ottoman Empire in Greece there was a priest who was tortured to say that he is "Turk" Here is [...]

      Read the full comment what he said"Grecos genithica,Grecos tha pethano"that was Papa Diacos.To me personaly,he is a hero.I learned my Macedonian and Greek history in a third country,I believe it is unbiased. Further Mag,Katerina knows nothing about the Civil War in Greece,I was there. If I write everthing that was going on in my and soraunding Villages your hair will go up(actualy your blood)will go up.I have seen my mother being beaten up,Every letter from my father had to be read by Giza or others.They were coming to my home and going to the adick and pretend they were shooting so us kids will break down.How many gun budds hit my mom in front of us.The hatred I have for those people simply cannot be expressed on the internet.There is absolutly,I reapit,there is absolutly no lie in my expressed views on this site or any other.I grew up with no parents,have not seen my mother since 1948.Am I accused being so vulgar when someone calls me a lier!Words dont tell everything.See what I wrote on the other site to Tom in respect to the professor Stephen G Miller.Tom writes reasonably,I answer reasonably.As to going to Greece,I am not allowed anyway.Katerina,if you are 16 years old I appologies,but make sure what you write it is true next time,and dont play a grow-up.

    • Anonymous
      KL Rating:
      neutral
      #88 23, 57, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      You've got me all wrong, maybe you want to assume that I think Athens will win so that you can respond something negative about Greece. No, whoever wins, wins. Nature cares not about ethnicity, culture or language. If Skopje wins,then that is what it is (I wouldn't be surprised if they did). Yes, it does seem Skopje is gaining ground, but so did Hitler when he marched to Moscow or when Xerxes marched all the away to Athens. A word to the wise, chance is random, one can win a few battles but that in way implies one has one [...]

      Read the full comment the war.

      See you on the flip-side David

    • Anonymous neutral
      #87 22, 22, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      The trouble with KL’s slightly deterministic position is that it leaves everybody dissatisfied. (I am assuming that what he means is that Greece, as part of the larger EU power bloc, will win. It would have been helpful if he had spelled this out more clearly..)

      The sad fact is, however, that Greece has dissipated a great deal of its negotiating capital over the years on sector-specific issues such as Feta Cheese (sorry, folks, to mention it yet again), and also many bilateral issues involving Cyprus and Turkey. The result is that a sizeable minority of [...]

      Read the full comment EU Member-States are fed up to the back teeth with Greece, and are unlikely to support it in yet another Balkan parochial argument. True, it still has its veto in the Council of Ministers, but there are ways round this (and I didn’t spend 32 years in and around the EU in Brussels without knowing some of them !)

      In addition, Macedon seems to have achieved recognition of the term “Republic of Macedonia” by over half the +/- 300 countries registered with the UN, so Greece is also fighting a losing battle internationally. But it will take a long time for Athens to admit this.

    • Anonymous
      KL Rating:
      neutral
      #86 14, 10, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      Ya in a parallel universe but we're talking about planet Earth where whether we like or not Nature has the ultimate say in all things: survival of the fittest. Something not new to Greece, Athens vs Persia (Persian loses) or how about Constantinople vs Turks (Rome loses!).

      The rule is universal, from microorganism all the way to us. So the question is ladies and gentlemen, in the match between Athens and Skopje, who will stand and who shall fall???

    • Anonymous neutral
      #85 13, 48, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      Eva - again I agree with you. Peter Janovski has a voice that should be heard - anyone who endured what he apparently had to endure as a child has a right to remind today’s generation what he/she suffered - but “slagging off” people of a different viewpoint is not appropriate. If he really is under a ‘vendetta’ curse from either Albania or Crete (neither of which should be underestimated !) then he really should be Very Careful and Lock His Door At Night. Even the Psalm 109 curse (of which I posted part earlier, but not the worst part) [...]

      Read the full comment needs - as I said - to be taken seriously. (The worst part is Verse 5: “Set thou an ungodly man to be master over him, and let Satan stand at his right hand.” Not a nice message to send, even to an enemy….) In short, I think Peter should apologise gracefully, but reserve his right to his own personal opinions.

      The solution to the Macedon “name” issue might just be a Solemn Undertaking by the Macedonian government in front of the UN Security Council to renounce any territorial or ethnic claim to the Greek “Province of Macedonia”. In return for which Greece would give a parallel Solemn Undertaking to the UN Security Council to drop its objection in perpetuity to the naming of the Macedonian state. But this sounds far too sensible to be acceptable to either side…

    • Anonymous
      Eva Rating:
      neutral
      #84 12, 44, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      Perhaps you're right, it was more of in the heat of the moment. But I do think Mr Janovski has it coming. I mean seriously a woman has already swore a personal vendetta on him. I guess sitting behind a computer emboldens a person but a totally different matter face to face. And it is truly repulsive the things he said to Katerina. I would like to see if Mr Janovski is so bold as to go around Greek villages talking like that, calling women whores and such, I doubt they'll bring out the ouzo but rather the "toupheki".

    • Anonymous neutral
      #83 10, 51, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      Eva - do you really mean to curse him ? It is not a step lightly undertaken, and on most blogsites it would be moderated. But if you really want to, the classic curse is Pslam 109 (108 in the Greek/Latin Bible), which goes:
      “Let his days be few: and let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless: and his wife a widow. Let his children be vagabonds and beg their bread. Let the extortioner consume all that he hath, and let the stranger spoil his labour. Let his posterity be destroyed: and in the next [...]

      Read the full comment generation let his name be clean put out.” But do not use this lightly, as it is reputed to work (it sunk the British Fleet in 1707 when a sailor recited it when he was unjustly hanged by Sir Cloudesley Shovel, Admiral.)

    • Anonymous
      Meg Rating:
      neutral
      #82 06, 01, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      This is part of a post of Peter's from another site:

      "Katerina,I have three grown-up kids and four grandchildren from 7 to 28 and they are doing great!"

      Now reading what you posted below concerning Katerina, how very mature of you Peter. I'm both your children and grandchildren would be shock that you uttered such words from your mouth, you sound like a 16 year old for heaven's sake.

      Also, there is nothing wrong with a good fight once in awhile and it is classic behaviour for a [...]

      Read the full comment child to avoid a fight by making up some excuse such as "you have coodies" or in your case "you have AIDS so therefore I can't touch you". Nice try Peter, but it is apparent you fear your neighbours to the south.

      There's no shame in that, I believe the Turks were never able to subdue the mafia-like Cretans. However, unlike you Peter, the Turks were not afraid to try and fight.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #81 00, 30, Mon, Mar 16 2009

      Peter - moy droog/ moja kolega - can I please suggest that you "cool it" slightly. Heated invective never convinces, and a cooler and more reasoned approach might serve your cause better.

    • AnonymousPeterMon, Mar 16 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #79 22, 21, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      blah blah blah blah blah....Peter are you going to fight the poor girl or what?

      Otherwise just give it up already, you have written the same thing a THOUSAND times already. What is it they say in English, no sense in beating a dead horse?

      And don't avoid the fact you called Katerina a whore and called her liar in terms of her ethnicity. The least you could do is offer an apology otherwise do shut up for once.

      au revoir

    • Anonymous neutral
      #78 20, 56, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      Janet - well, I certainly wouldn't do hitch-hiking in northern Greece now ! Back then it was either friendly truck drivers, or the Greek army, or else horses and carts, all the way up the Evros river valley through Orestiada to Edirne in Turkey (where there was a free minibus on the Turkish side of the border !!) In those days the Turkish side looked distinctly more prosperous, though on neither side were we at all menaced or hassled. The one thing that sticks in my mind was paying for two coffees in Kastanies (the last Greek village before the [...]

      Read the full comment border) with a 100-drachma note, which the locals couldn't change as nobody had 100 drachmai (USD 2) in the entire village.....

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #77 18, 06, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      Katerina,I can write in Ukrainian,Polish,English,Bulgarian,Greek and Macedonian.Tell me,what am I?Well,for sterters I am Macedonian from the Lerin Okolia.I did lined up the Villages fpr you in a row from the Vlah populated Village of Psoderi(Pisoderi) to Rula(Kota) and just west of Kota is Besfina.Have you ever been to Ovcharani (Melitis)?.Find me one Greek,or one who does not speak Macedonian.It seams to me you are in your dreams.Yes,I choose bad language on my last posting,but you started it.By the way,dont threaten me you litle girl, I aint afraid of you or your entire lousy Greek,Ukrainians or what have you. You talk [...]

      Read the full comment about your uncle,how do you feel for the 15 year old boy killed cold bloded on the field?This boy was not fighting anyone,he was working the land with his father.By the way,Petros Lantzakis was from Zelevo(Antartikon).Durring the civil war,there were no wrongs or rights,it was the time."O keros itan etsi"Father in the ELAS,son in the Gov. army fighting againts each other. Janet and Eva, Just visit the Villages of Ovcharani,and the Villages the Greek army was trying to destroy the peoples crops with their live amunition next door their homes. On the Macedonian issue;Do you know what Mr Mitsotakis said in 1995 on the issue of the recognition of the Macedonian minority in Greece? Do you know what PM Ralis in 1903 said to the New York Times? Do you know what Vasilis Dendramanis sai in 1925 at the League of Nations? Do you know what ambassador Grossomanidu said to Athens? Do you know what Mr. Valianatos said,and why was he sucket ?Do yo know what Athena Skoulariki said?Finaly,what Isocrates and Demosthenes said? I will take my hat if you are able to answer above questions unbiased.These questions are for all of you Greeks to answer if you have balls.I should add one more,and that is;As per your claim of Macedonia being Greece,why in 1913 you did not complain for the 49% given to Serbia and Bulgaria if whole geographical Macedonia was Greek? No Greek can answer these questions inteligently,unbiased and honestly.When these questions are answered,I will ask you somthing different.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #76 14, 40, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      I'm surprised you made it safely to your destination. And I dare say northern Greece is not the safest place to be, you can easily get kidnapped for ransom and a few times young people go missing due to Albanians looking for organs to sell (like little Alex from Volos). I think I would feel safer in Athens than places near the boarder. So I can only imagine what it was like back then. In any case, I really doubt Peter's story of being "shipped" to Romania and then to Poland. I think it would have been more economical for [...]

      Read the full comment the greeks to have sent them across the boarder to Macedonia. Sort of like how the Greeks sent ethnic Turks to Turkey and vice versa. In any case, Mr Janovski lost his credibility along time ago. An analogy would be the boy who cried wolf.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #75 12, 53, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      Janet - you know, I rather think I agree with you (for once). It does rather sound like the "Gunfight at the OK Corral", only for real ! I don't at all support or espouse Peter Janowski's views, but if what he says about his childhood is correct, he should at least be listened to with respect. Nasty things went on in northern Greece in the late 1940s, long after the Germans had been defeated, and I know that Greek memories are long. (What brought this home to me was hitch-hiking through north-eastern Greece in the 1960s, and seeing many [...]

      Read the full comment posters recalling the dreadful famine of 1944. At that time north-eastern Greece (east of Alexandroupoli, on the road to Didimotiko and the Turkish border) was not at all prosperous, and no tourists normally went there. I only did as my girl friend wanted to hitch-hike with me to Istanbul !

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #74 11, 39, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      I'm sure you'll figure it out.

      The drama unfolds on this site, with some Albanian characteristics but it reminds me more of those family feuds/mafia on Crete which are much more deadlier.

      The question is, will Peter Janovski decline or fight?

    • Anonymous neutral
      #73 10, 04, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      God, this discussion is getting really Albanian / Balkan; all we need now is the Kanun of Lek to be proclaimed in Florina ! To Janet -
      on a lighter note - you haven't explained to me what a "faget" is yet. Is it maybe a small cigarette ? ('fag' being the UK English for a cigarette, an expression unknown in US English, as many tourists have found to their cost.)

    • Anonymous
      Katerina Rating:
      neutral
      #72 08, 04, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      I have informed the villagers of you Peter Janovski no one knows or remembers you. YOU LIAR! I now put this to you formally:

      "PETER JANOVSKI! YOU AND I HAVE UNFINISHED BUSINESS. YOU WILL COME DOWN TO FLORINA. THE RULES ARE THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE WINNER. TO DENY ME OF THIS IMPLIES YOU ARE A COWARD"

      I and the other villagers are waiting.....

    • Anonymous
      Eva Rating:
      neutral
      #71 07, 56, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      "God strike me if one iota is not true."

      No only are you not Macedonians but you are not christians either, dreaming that your neighbours to the south will be destroyed by Turkey and occupying their lands. You call yourselves Orthodox Christians? You worship the Sun of Vergina, you have put your own fake identity above your religion and speak lies of people who are of the same faith...you are psedochristians and no one believes you if you say such things "may god strike me down.."

      There is a hymn that is [...]

      Read the full comment sung during the 1st 3 days of HOly Week that goes "Bring more evils on them, bring more evils on them who are wicked"

      I curse you Peter Janovski

    • Anonymous
      Katerina Rating:
      neutral
      #70 07, 42, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      ?

      what are you talking about???

      who the hell said I'm pontius? Are you retarded??? I said I am Ukrainian: vi govorite po angliski???

      Why do you call me a whore? All i told you is nothing but the truth that many people were killed in the Province of Macedonia by your communist ancestors and that my greatuncle was executed by you Skopjans. Have you no shame?

      I now really mean it when I say pray that we NEVER meet Peter Janovski, and if [...]

      Read the full comment you really do feel raw about all this then come down to Florina and we'll settle this once and for all: I'll teach you a thing or 2 on proper manners and the way you talk to people.

      Vi mene rozumijete?

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #69 03, 16, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      Katerina, you must be the biggest whore in Lerin.You say you are Ukrainian,you bitch are not Ukrainian or being in Lerin durring the civil war.You are Pontios,not even Greek.Yes, I am alive and well,does that bother you.Do you know the Villages I listed in a row as they are lined up?.

    • AnonymousPeterSun, Mar 15 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Alex Rating:
      neutral
      #67 02, 21, Sun, Mar 15 2009

      FYROM's first President, Kiro Gligorov (February 26, 1992)

      "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century (AD)... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians. "

    • AnonymousJanetSun, Mar 15 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #65 22, 33, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      To Katerina the pseudo Ukrainian! Good day! Let me first express my sorrow on loosing your grandfather.In 1948 on March 25th while the Greeks were celebrating the revolution of 1825,the Greek communists with the agreement of the than Greek government exiled 28 thousand children from Macedonian part only and shipped us to the communist countries.I girst was in Romania-Kalimaneshti,than transfered to Poland.At the begining of April while in Yugoslavia,my younger sister was sent to "Bela Crkva" and me to Kalimaneshti.I am 73 year old from Greek occupied Macedonia. I have nothing with the Republic of Macedonia,but these people are same [...]

      Read the full comment as myself,Macedonians.We speak the same language,our ethnicity is tatally same,contrali what the Greeks would like us to be. Katerina,did you read my comment on the 15 year old boy from my Village? God strike me if one iota is not true.In 1947 my father was in ELAS,he made a comment"why are they promoting Greeks but none Macedonians" The communists were ready to execute him. He was lucky,got away.You dont know what it meant to go on the highway to wait for my father wheather dead or alive,this was going on for months.He was imprisoned in Florina(Lerin) My grandfathers money,got him out of Greece and came to Canada.Katerina, you can believe whatever you like,but the truth always hurts.I do remember everything at 12 years old.Anything I have written is the truth,wheather it suits you or not it is too bad.By the way, I learned the Greek and Macedonian history in an unbiased setting,not like you have one sided as Greece pleases to falsify it. The problem with Greece today is not with the republic of Macedonia and its name,but greece does not want to recognize the Macedonian minority in Greek occupied Macedonia.These Greeks who think,the Macedonian language is Bulgarian,think again.Macedonia gave Bulgaria the alphabet they use today.But,if you speak a language,does not make that nationality.Over half a bilion speak English,are we English?,or that you speak Greek,are you Greek?Lets not muddy the facts.Why are the Greeks so afraid of the Macedonian minority?Dora Bekoyanis in Washington did not answer the question posed to her by a Macedonian newsman.She oly mentioned the Lousaigne agreement,why not the Serves of 1920 and what Vasilis Dendramanis said in 1925 at the League of Nations.(the name of the treaty might not be spelled right,sorry).Now than, if you want to have a real discussion on any matter,I would be more than happy to accomodate.This writer is not a lier.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #64 18, 30, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Sorry - I overlooked this one. What, Janet, is a "faget" ? It's close to the word "fagette" for a Lesbian, which might indicate a Freudian slip on your part.... But maybe you meant something quite different, like a 'faggot' or Northern English fried potato ?

    • Anonymous neutral
      #63 18, 27, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Which all makes my point about the inability of the Greek language to go beyond crude sexual banter in its insults...and by the way, Janet has not yet answered my question. The Ancient Greek language had considerable subtlety in its range of insults, as Plato recounts, but the modern Greek language and phraseology has apparently lost all of this. "Gami Sou" is about as subtle as it gets.This reinforces my view that today's Greece is a peasant culture that has somehow hi-jacked a vastly superior ancient civilisation, to which today's Greeks are as related as are modern Turks to the [...]

      Read the full comment Lycians.
      (and by the way, is Janet still a virgin ? If so, she should join a convent or nunnery and promote her views from there. There is, by the way a very rude French joke about "who put the 'con' into 'convent', which I shall not translate). Heh heh.

    • Anonymous
      Brian Rating:
      neutral
      #62 17, 38, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      'They are obsessed with sex and alcohol. They're not here to look at the monuments'

      That sums it up, so is it when you're back in glorious England that you look at monuments?

      Also, to have begotten 2 daughters did you use artificial semination? Because by the sound of you talk, no woman on this earth would go near you. Or maybe they were adopted? Keep on playing with your hand David

    • AnonymousJanetSat, Mar 14 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Ranger Rating:
      neutral
      #60 17, 28, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      David, kapheneion is not a club, do get a brain. Also Janet is correct, here is one of the many articles on what you Brits do outside of your boarders:

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/they-are-obsessed-with-sex-and-alcohol-theyre-not-here-to-look-at-the-monuments-536138.html

      As Janet puts it, no civilised are we?

    • Anonymousdavid the secondSat, Mar 14 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #58 14, 13, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      "It's not a thing we
      do in Northern Europe at all. Maybe the residue of a tainted Balkan peasant past..."

      Ah yes, not in Northern Europe but different story when you Brits come to the Balkans and let loose in our bars. Who do you think you're kidding? The whole of Europe as seen documentaries on CNN of those "things you don't do in Northern Europe but seem to forget once you're over here. It made my day to see Brits getting BJs and humping young girls like rabbits on hidden cams in clubs [...]

      Read the full comment and the whole world saw it, from Sydney to London.

      Not so civilized our we?

      PS - those poor girls of yours, I hope you don't bore them to death

    • Anonymous neutral
      #57 13, 56, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Janet - my two daughters might tell you differently. (More seriously, why do Greeks or philHellenes always resort to sexual innuendo or comments about "hiding under mothers skirts" when they want to be abusive ? It's not a thing we
      do in Northern Europe at all. Maybe the residue of a tainted Balkan peasant past...

    • Anonymous
      Dan Rating:
      neutral
      #56 13, 49, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      lol

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #55 13, 48, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Thank you to you too David, you obviously do not like Greece/Greeks and have nothing good to say so thus you ARE racists.

      And again, shut up about the feta cheese, are you retarded? I reckon you are still a virgin.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #54 13, 44, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Thank you Dan! I was tired of hearing of useless and pathetic statements like "feta cheese". Is it obvious that David doesn't go on dates much? Sounds like something he would say during a date to keep the conversation going. Are you Macedonian? You sound like the only man on this site.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #53 13, 43, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      I can tell you who cares about the "stupid Feta cheese" - it is Denmark, with its cheese industry very badly affected. The Greeks claimed that all Feta was "local hand-produced quality" deserving the EU "Protected Designation of Origin" under EU Regulations, despite the fact that it was an industrial product (and even I myself saw whole walls constructed from 5-litre Feta industrial-liquid cans on Skopelos), so I rather doubt the Greek claim. As to good things to report about the Greeks, well there is always the return ticket home, unless it's from Volos airfield/airport where the scorpions get your [...]

      Read the full comment exposed feet first. (And by the way, I do speak and read modern Greek, one of the few benefits of a UK 'classics' education.) Personally, I would far rather holiday in Turkey, Bulgaria, or even Moldova (Chisinau is one of Europe's less well discovered cities, but they do a good local dish called 'scrob cu mamaliga'.

    • Anonymous
      Dan Rating:
      neutral
      #52 13, 39, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      I agree with Janet, if you are not a racist then why havent none of us heard you say a single good thing about Greeks? I would also like to commend Janet for sound attitude, she sees through the hateful antics and politics (in contrast to Peter and David) and yet manages to stand by her identity.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #51 13, 33, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Like who cares about the stupid feta cheese????

      Also, if you are not racists towards the Greeks then I invite you to write a post that states good things about them. Let's be honest here, I am a Macedonian whether the Greeks like or not, however at the same time I have many good things to say about those cheerful people to the south. Every country has good and bad and I have still yet to read something good that comes out of your computer about Greece. Why don't I start you off, they have really [...]

      Read the full comment good food and they are quite hospitable. Otherwise you're no better than the those Alexander the Great wannabes in the diaspora.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #50 13, 25, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Oh Janet, do grow up. I said Peter has two good points: (a) he writes reasonable (but slightly incorrect) Polish , and (b) he criticised Ristov, who is truly a nutcase. This does not make me a racist. To take the obvious logical syllogism: Socrates is a man / Hitler is also a man / therefore Socrates is Hitler. This is known to logicians as the "law of the undistributed middle term", and is a classic of faulty logic.
      (By the way, I still meant what I said about the Feta cheese affair, but this is empirically-based reasoning [...]

      Read the full comment from facts, from which I still conclude that the Greek government will bend every fact going if it suits them.)

    • Anonymous neutral
      #49 13, 17, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Oh dear - I have just read Katerina's posting. I don't doubt her sentiments (indeed I can't), but it sounds rather as if the Albanian "Kanun of Lek" is about to be re-applied in the Macedonian region. (The Kanun of Lek involves blood-feuds and avenging the supposed killer of one's grandfather's twice-removed cousin.) One of the few sensible things that the Communist regime in Albania did was to abolish this, and one of the many stupid things that the post-Communist Albanian government did was to reinstate it !

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #48 13, 15, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      That is fantastic you're a friend of Macedonia, but you are still a moron if you believe anything that Peter says. He is obviously a racist pig and you yourself admit that he has some good points so put two and two together and what does that make you? Also, dear David, as you mention we are quite hospitable and clearly we are nothing like the fanatical diaspora. Greece will be Greece, but the moment PEter makes rude comments about the normal everyday and inhabitants of that country and you agree with him then sorry but you are a racist [...]

      Read the full comment pig period.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #47 13, 09, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Janet - as an EU national I have every right to express an opinion, given that Macedon aspires to join the EU but is blocked by Greece, and also I slightly object to being called a "racist pig" when all I have done is to observe that the Greeks are good at bending EU rules and procedures to suit themselves - just look at the case of "feta" cheese (and I was an EU delegate in Brussels at the time, so I know the inside story, which puts Athens in a very discreditable light). Hence my sympathy for the Macedonians [...]

      Read the full comment on this occasion. (Also, I have ridden a motorcyle twice through Macedon north-south and south-north, and received good hospital treatment in Titov Veles, so I can claim to know the country !)

    • Anonymous
      Katerina Rating:
      neutral
      #46 13, 09, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      ATTENTION Peter Janovski: I posted this on another site where you often post, I was told you also frequently write posts here so I wanted to make sure you see this again because I am DEAD serious you little prick.

      "I am a Ukrainian who lives in Florina and I myself am witness to Peter’s lies. For Peter to be one of the supposed “children refugees” he would have to be either dead or really old.

      Futhermore, my grandmother, who was actually present during the Civil War (Peter are you speaking from [...]

      Read the full comment the grave?) told us the atrocities the Skopjan communists committed in our villages. They executed Greeks or any other race that was not with them or for the annexation of the Province of Macedonia. When the Greeks finally defeated these people everyone in the Province of Macedonia was jubilant to see these murderers go!

      These “children refugees” peter speaks of were communists terrorists who should have been tortured and executed in the same way their Greek communists brethern were. These Skopjan communists were lucky to be exiled and not executed. I say to Peter, if you were indeed one of those who were exiled then you deserve to the worst possible imaginable punishment for what YOU did.

      Get this in your head, my family is Ukrainian and there are other Slavophones here but WE DONT WANT YOUR KIND HERE! Do you understand English?????? My family still remembers what your kind did here during the civil war, for my grandmother’s brother was executed by a Skopjan communist!!!

      I would think twice dear Peter of coming over here because my granduncle’s blood is on YOUR hands and every single Skopjan who lies about what happened. Let’s just say we will not be as merciful as the Greeks were"

      If you are truly from Florina you would know where the monument is where you communist Skopjans executed people from my village including my great uncle. In the name of all that is sacred, pray that we never meet.

    • Anonymous
      Janet Rating:
      neutral
      #45 12, 54, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      I agree, very long post and who's going to read? But anyone who believes Peter Janovski is ridiculous and plain stupid! I am from the Republic of Macedonia and whilst I do agree this name dispute is silly, Peter is just plain facist and silly. How interesting that the diaspora are a 100% more fanatical than the actual inhabitants of the mother land. Peter you are a shame to Macedonia, spreading hate and ridiculous arguments against the Greeks. You are doing us more harm and good. And David dear, you are not Macedonian nor Greek, so do get a life [...]

      Read the full comment before you waste it away on a matter that has nothing to do with you.

      You both are racist pigs and we here in Macedonia definitely not need any help from you to in order to promote our image, we are doing fine just by ourselves.

      To the Greeks, unlike David and Peter, I have enough wisdom to understand that the Government of Athens is not really representative of you as shown by the riots and protests. I understand you are good people. Let not David and Peter in the way of our dialogue.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #44 12, 39, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      With some respect for "Peter" and his arguments (which have much merit), I cannot say the same for "Revolution in Skopje". He seems to have done a "Cut and Paste" from a particularly dense and unreadable Communist-era Marxist study, and to have posted it on this site no less than twice ! (Clue to "Revolution.." - nobody, but nobody, is going to read it or to take you seriously any more !)

    • Anonymous neutral
      #43 03, 50, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      Historical review of the earliest start of the process termed by the Greek scholar Evangelos Kofos as “mutation”, regarding the creation of the “Macedonian” nation furnishes evidence of exponentiation growth of the Pseudomacedonian secular ideology. This ideology has its roots in pseudohistory, Communist totalitarianism and information darkness within a culture strongly marked with dogmatic thinking and lack of incentive for a serious countercultural opposition instead of complacency.

      During the entire national period of FYROM, stretching from the 6th century to 1944, the alleged “Macedonian”nation, precursor of the modern-day, elaborated ethos of Pseudomacedonianism, there is no testimony [...]

      Read the full comment of “Makedonci (Macedonians) of the type established in 1944 and redefined occasionally ever since. Few Western and Russian scholars wouldn´t agree that the primary relationships between FYROM and Republic of Bulgaria is based on sharing cultural and linguistic features which show marginal change over the wider space constructed from today´s borders of Bulgaria and FYROM. Attempts of Pseudomacedonian Slavs to produce a consistent and referenced historical synthesis are unsuccessful due to lack of historical sources which would facilitate an impression of developed Macedonian nation of Slavic type throughout the history.

      Yet the creation of a distinct vis-a-vis Bulgaria and Serbia ethnicity is today an accomplished work. In the light of the problems the construction of a “Macedonian” ethnicity of Western Bulgarian language has posed both internally (identity crisis, fractioning of the population, deconstruction) and with regard to the wider Balkan region (irredentism in form of ethnocentric expansionism), the nature of emergence of “Macedonian” identity remains a valid open question. The primordial “Macedonism” among the Bulgarians and Serbians of today´s FYROM was a spontaneous provincialism after the political separation of Bulgaria and the area of Povardarje via decisions of the Berlin Congress in 1878. The consequent lack of what may be described as intensive enforcement of enlightenment, caused by the lack of statist instrument that would provide the process of national-building left only the preexisting rudimentary institutions, chief of which was the ecclesiastic and schooling system of the Bulgarian Exachate, established in 1870. Because the Serbian factor was diminishing from early 1800´s and the newly-liberated Greek state was spiritual Piedmont of northern Greeks inhabiting Ottoman Macedonia, the Pseudomacedonian identity in the later half of the 19th century represented a prospective option which would serve as basis for Pan-Macedonian irredentism. The Poet Rajko Žinzifov/Xenophon Zinzisi (1839-1878), a Bulgarized Vlach from Veles summed the conflict for symbolical preeminence in verses from his poem “Guslar vo sobor (1862)”:

      “Ohrid and Tyrnovo already gave a call Macedonia, strange land Greek she shall never be!

      The forest and hill, and a mountain the very stone of that land bird and fish in Vardar river living and dead on their limbs shall rise and give the answer to all of Europe, to the entire world.

      I am a Bulgarian woman, I´m a Bulgarian man Bulgarians live in that land!”

      The term “Macedonian” quickly became a designation for a Povardarje Bulgarian in Bulgaria, and together with the-undoubtedly artificial-revival of regional names Moesia and Thrace constituted mnemonic and irredentist evocation of areas which were not ethnically exclusively Bulgarian.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #42 03, 49, Sat, Mar 14 2009

      As evidenced by the frequent appearance of the term “Macedonian”, coexisting with Bulgarian, the Slavs of Povardarje were becoming more and more influenced by this dual identity. This was the first sign of ethnic mutation, although in this period they do not designate separate identity to the traditional Bulgarian one. The first author that set the proposition of a distinct, nominally Macedonian ethnicity was Ѓorѓi Pulevski. His rather undistinguished, but voluminous literary and historiographic opus didn´t attracted any substantial following. The lack of any success by exclusive Macedonism in late 19th century is flagrant as evidenced by foreign observes which [...]

      Read the full comment considered the bulk of region´s Slavic population as Bulgarians.

      It is only after the foundation of BMORK (Bulgaro-Macedonian Adrianople Revolutionary Committee) in 1893 the idea that the usage of the Macedonian name may be diplomatically lucrative gained prominence.

      Memoirs of one of its founder, Hristo Tatarčev, state that the name, including the organization´s slogan “Macedonia to Macedonians” was essentially a trick, designed so that this organization could attract

      Macedonian Greek and other Christian following, something that did not happened. Indeed, BMORK changed its name and statute and its eminent members and sympathizers begun to use the ethnic name Bulgarians quite sparsely, if at all. Instead the name “Macedonians”and the corresponding adjectives were used, certainly with the intention to deceive observers from the Great Powers and to create an impression that annexation of the region to Bulgaria was not the political goal of VMRO.

      Thus, the Bulgarian “Macedonism” represented a crude dissimulation. Monopolizing the name “Macedonia” elevated the Bulgarian primacy over the entire region, regardless of demographic, political and other realities. The increasing frequency of its usage in political, journalistic and other contexts within the south-western Bulgarian area was the first nucleus of differentiation among the local Bulgarians and those of Bulgarian state although only few of the Povardarje Bulgarians took this identity in order to separate themselves from Bulgaria and Bulgarian heritage. In retrospective, not only that Macedonism before 1913 wasn´t a form of self-identification separate from those of other Balkan´s Slavic and non-Slavic populations, which is evidenced by multitude of contemporary sources, but the earliest concrete manifestation of Macedonism was a case of a naïve artificial nativism, a construct without authentic foundation in that era´s ethnographic reality and without historical, deeper tradition.

    • AnonymousPeterFri, Mar 13 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous neutral
      #40 13, 02, Fri, Mar 13 2009

      Well, "Revolution in Skopje" precisely makes my own point that FYROM should be renamed "Makedonija" (as in its own native language), thus avoiding the whole problem or alleged confusion with the recently-named Greek province of Macedonia. (Or, equally, "Macedon" as per really correct English.)

    • Anonymous neutral
      #39 05, 19, Fri, Mar 13 2009

      FYROM’s first President, Kiro Gligorov (February 26, 1992)

      “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century (AD)… we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians. ”

      FYROM Foreign Minister Denko Maleski (1991 to 1993)

      The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimate themselves through their history. In the [...]

      Read the full comment Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece ) forced us to invent a history, we did invent it.”

      FYROM’S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka (January 22 1999)

      “We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.”

      FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov (24 February 1999)

      “We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.” He also commented “there is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country

    • Anonymous
      Peter Rating:
      neutral
      #38 16, 18, Thu, Mar 12 2009

      Dzien dobry panie David. David,ja nie wiem kto i dlaczego urzywa moje imie. Ja mam pojencie dlaczego ale co ja moge zrobicz. My computer board does not have Polish lettering,so the (a,and e,)are not sounding right. The dispute between the Greeks and Macedonians it is realy a lost cause. These peoples minds are so infected with the falsified history it is very dificualt for them to come to terms with the truth.When I ask them,why are they puting their heroes in jail,none would answer.I ask them;why in 1828 they imprisoned Kolokotroni to apease the Turks,also more recently,why they imprisoned Manolis [...]

      Read the full comment Glezos who lowered the Swastica at Acropolis durring the German occupation,none are able to answer.Had a priest by the name of "Papadiakos" was alive at that time,they the Greeks would had him imprisoned as well for refusing to say "I am Turk".Greeks are all mouth with no substance, they will sell their mother before they can admitt the truth.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #37 11, 42, Thu, Mar 12 2009

      Further to the posting below, I can confirm that it is the custom in English to give newly-independent countries their own name in the local language, unless it is completetely unpronounceable, and this is particularly true for former Yugoslavia. Examples are "BiH" for Bosna i Hercegovina, Crna Gora for Montenegro, and Kosovo / Kosova. (I am aware that whether it ends in "o" or "a" depends on whether one is talking to a Serb or an Albanian.) Secondly, you will look in vain for any mention of "Philip of Macedonia" in an English history book - it is always "Philip [...]

      Read the full comment of Macedon". Thirdly - and I have Makedonija's first ambassador to London to thank for this - he used the "Makedonija" spelling on his business cards to avoid the FYROM problem within the London diplomatic community. His name, IIRC, was Boris Trajkovski. The Crna Gora "representative office" in Ljubljana always used that name and not "Montenegro", even in English. I think I make my point.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #36 10, 22, Thu, Mar 12 2009

      Ristov - I refer to it as Makedonija because that is how it is spelled in its language of origin, the same way as I refer to "Moldova" rather than "Moldavia". This is a useful and neutral professional discipline and (for example) prevents confusion between Slovenija and Slovensko, whereas Slovenia and Slovakia are often confused, notably by former President Bush ! Incidentally, the correct English term for Makedonija is "Macedon", as in the Bible and Shakespeare.

    • Anonymous
      Ristov Rating:
      neutral
      #35 01, 01, Thu, Mar 12 2009

      David my child, if you truly are friend of Macedonia then why do you refer to our country is Makedonija? You never say "Macedonia" as if you are differentiating one Macedonia from another. There is only one Macedonia and only Macedonians are allowed!

    • Anonymous
      Peter Janovski Rating:
      neutral
      #34 00, 57, Thu, Mar 12 2009

      dzień dobry David the second, you see those greeks are crazy that is why you must suppport Great and united Macedonia. Under the leadership of Solun we can build a great empire and the Macedonian flag shall be flown on the White Tower of Solun. It doesnt matter David if your DNA is subsaharan-afro/asian, you can still help united Macedonia and learn the oldest language on earth, the Macedonian language.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #33 22, 45, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      Piortrze - Jak to jest Pana pytanie w jezyku polskim ? Makedonija jest Makedonie, i Grecja jest Grecje (you have to imagine little nasal cidillas under the letter "e" in both cases) A wszystko bedzie w porzadku.

      Serdecznie pozdrawiam - a zeby mielista (that's the Old Greek Dual grammatical verbal form for you, only in Polish)
      spokojna noc.

    • Anonymous
      Peter Janovski Rating:
      neutral
      #32 19, 02, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      To David the second;Sorry bud,I did not post the following comments,but someone is obsest with my truth on the Greco-Macedonian questios.The dates that are not my are;Mar.07,00.30 Mar.08,02.11, Mar. 09,00.00. Mar.10,23.52 Wed.Mar.11,12.12. Mar. 11,12.56.These comments only a bastard,a fruitcake would do this.Now,if you David are the one who speaks Polish,you would know me as Peter.This person is acting as a true Arvanoturkos.When one is ashamed to go with his own name it shows how all these Greeks are claiming what they are NOT!Fabricating is the Greek way of claiming what they were never.Whoever it is, you are"gamimeno kormi who is [...]

      Read the full comment hiding under your mothers skirt.arent you ashamed?.

    • Anonymous
      Ristov Rating:
      neutral
      #31 14, 45, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      David my child, there is no Slavonic language. Do you know Macedonian? That is the only language worth learning as it is the oldest one on this Earth. Being antigreek does not mean you are friend of the Republic of Macedonia so you will have to prove your loyalty to Philip the Second, Alexander the Great and Nikola Gruevski (the Immortal Leader of Macedonia and Equal to Alexander and Philip) in another way. You can do this by spreading the word that Macedonia must be united with Pirin and Aegean Macedonia along with the Albanian parts of occupied Macedonia. If [...]

      Read the full comment are not for the reunification of Solun and Skopje then you are against no matter what you feel about the greeks.

    • Anonymous
      Greg Rating:
      neutral
      #30 14, 36, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      There's no sense in beating a dead horse David. And if you want to continue to relate the government of Greece to the actual everyday citizens then I wont beat the dead horse either. Interesting thing though, the majority of respondents on this site are Skopjan radical diaspora who have territorial aspirations over Greece as clearly shown by previous posts and yet no Greek seems to care about the lands north of its border. and also, I dont see a Greek accusing you of being antiGreek (even though you may be) or harassing you with other accusations. We are jolly [...]

      Read the full comment people after all David mate, so why don't come down south and have a drink of ouzo with us. Cheers!

    • Anonymous neutral
      #29 13, 50, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      to Ristov - I think you will find that Hellas/Yunanistan is actually spelled "Greece" in English, and not "Grease" (that is the well-known film starring John Travolta). Beyond that, if you think that I am "philHellene" from my past comments, you obviously can't read or understand English at all well. I have never been at all philHellene (or a "Greek lover" in plain speech) since the great Feta cheese scandal in the 1990s, also the various Greek EU consultancy scandals in the 1990s/ 2000s. Indeed, I speak several Slavonic languages in preference to Greek - mozhna pa russkiy povtarut' sya [...]

      Read the full comment ?

    • Anonymous
      Ristov Rating:
      neutral
      #28 13, 16, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      David my child,
      Peter has a point, it seems you are trying to pretend to be Macedonia's friend when in truth you are not. I wonder how much did the greeks pay you? Soon you will be saying absurdities such as Alexander was "Greek" and the ancient Macedonians were "Greek" when in fact they were not. Have you forgotten that the greeks murdered thousands of ethnic Macedonians during the Civil War? Or that they will not let us return to Solun, our rightful capital? David, all we Macedonians want is our Solun back and you are either with [...]

      Read the full comment us or against us!

      Macedonia for Macedonians, Grease for David!

    • Anonymous
      Peter Janivski Rating:
      neutral
      #27 13, 03, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      The Republic of Macedonia does not need your help, we have Philip the second, Alexander the Great and the immortal leader and Sheppard Nikola Gruevski. If you are not Macedonian then you are not much.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #26 12, 56, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      to Piotr Janivski -
      Eh ? I am pro-Greek, am I ? So why did I post "Gami Sou" to all the Greek protagonists just a short while ago ? To anybody such as I
      who tries to support the Makedonijan cause, your comments are just not helpful.

    • Anonymous
      Peter Janivski Rating:
      neutral
      #25 12, 12, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      David the second, I agree this site needs a moderator to stop you from posting antiMacedonian comments. You are just jealous that you dont have the rich history of Macedonia, you and the Greeks lack history so that is why you hate Macedonia and act against her. Your DNA is subsaharan-afro/asian and you know this and this makes you feel deficient. Bow down to Great Macedonia and maybe you can aleast be acknowledge has a friend to the Republic of Macedonia and visit Solun when it becomes the capital of United Macedonia again.

    • Anonymous
      George Rating:
      neutral
      #24 02, 32, Wed, Mar 11 2009

      Nobody in Greece wants territory to the north of Greece anyway. There has to be something wrong with a country with claims over everyone else.



    • Anonymous
      Peter Janivski Rating:
      neutral
      #23 23, 52, Tue, Mar 10 2009

      You can never silence the voice of United and Great Macedonia! The tide is turning and soon all occupied parts of Macedonia from Albania, Aegean, and Bulgaria shall be reclaimed and united under the leadership of Solun. Resistance is futile. With the help of Turkey we shall conquer from Tirana all the way to Sofia! Why? Because my DNA shows that we are the only mediterranean people and the most superior race in Europe. Everyone else's DNA is from subharan-afro/asian. The spirits of Philip and Alexander rise again and give the True Macedonians strength again to conquer Solun and start [...]

      Read the full comment a New Macedonian Era!

    • AnonymousBenTue, Mar 10 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      Peter Janivski Rating:
      neutral
      #21 23, 43, Tue, Mar 10 2009

      Well, I cannot understand the Greeks and the Bulgarian on this site claiming Macedonia is Greek and or Bulgarian.I asked a question on this issue, but can never get a straight answer from either.I will try once more,and ask the Greeks and Bulgarians the same question;Lets assume,geografical Macedonia is Greek or Bulgarian.Which is it,Greek or Bulgarian?If one of you will claim Macedonia as yours,why in Bucharest of 1913 you setled only for what you got? In all my life,I have never deard Greece asking for the Pirin Macedonia from Bulgaria,likewise Bulgaria has never asked for the Aegean Macedonia?. Are you [...]

      Read the full comment people insane?Only one person came close to the right answer,but did diviated from it.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #20 13, 30, Tue, Mar 10 2009

      PhilinSofia is exactly right in what he says. This site needs more active moderation (or, as some of the regular contributors would prefer: THIS SITE NEEDS MORE ACTIVE MODERATION )

    • Anonymous
      Peter Janovski Rating:
      neutral
      #19 00, 00, Tue, Mar 10 2009

      You can never silence the voice of United and Great Macedonia! The tide is turning and soon all occupied parts of Macedonia from Albania, Aegean, and Bulgaria shall be reclaimed and united under the leadership of Solun. Resistance is futile.

    • Anonymous
      philinsofia Rating:
      neutral
      #18 22, 23, Mon, Mar 09 2009

      Having spent several (largely wasted) minutes in reading all the previous submissions, I am shocked! Rudeness, abuse, obscenity, nationalism, racism, distorted historical "facts" – the lot! Wonderful… wake up to the 21st. century (CE, that is, not BCE), and say and do something positive.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #17 13, 17, Mon, Mar 09 2009

      To the Moderators:

      The Belfast newspapers (themselves no strangers to strongly-expressed opinions from readers) have placed this explicit warning on their website:

      "Offensive or abusive comments will be removed and your IP address logged and may be used to prevent further submissions. In submitting a comment to the site, you agree to be bound by BelfastTelegraph.co.uk's Terms of Use.

      Posts submitted in UPPERCASE letters will be rejected"

      Could this be a Good Idea for the Sofia Echo too ?

    • Anonymous
      You are the BS Rating:
      neutral
      #16 16, 07, Sun, Mar 08 2009

      Even if your so called friend Turkey dominates the region again do you honestly think in the name of sanity that they will help you with your Albanian problem???? Word of advice, choose your friends more wisely or have you forgotten that Islam comes first over your relationship with Turkey? So unless you all convert to Islam, Turkey is going to turn a blind eye when Greater Albania comes knocking on Skopje's door. You call yourselves "Orthodox Christians" and at the same time wish for the destruction of a country of the same religion? I doubt your national heroes St [...]

      Read the full comment Cyril and Methodius would be pleased in this nor your ancestors who fought against the Ottomans. You are Pseudomacedonians and Pseudochristians, so why don't you go back to Monkydonia and worship the Vergina Sun and pretend Turkey will deliver you from the Albanians

    • Anonymous neutral
      #15 12, 16, Sun, Mar 08 2009

      Bulgarians became sloveni (ie. literate the true meaning of the slav reference).
      Slavs has no racial reference, it is merely a linguistic grouping, no more, no less.
      A linguistic belonging bears no meaning to one's national identity or racial belonging.
      The 'slav' label is merely pan-slav russian propaganda to dominate eastern Europe.
      The Bulgars were a Tatar/Mongol tribe who spoke a Turkic language - none of this can be disputed. Upon adopting the local 'slavonic' language Bulgars became 'Bulgarians'. The language which these Bulgars adopted was spoken in Macedonia among other places, [...]

      Read the full comment while the 'Koine' language was only used by the Patriarchate of Constantinople which sought to suppress anything 'slavonic' in nature.
      Enough of the pseudo-history that you all seem to propagate, very soon Turkey will dominate the region once more, while Greece's compensates for its inferiority complex with Turkey with her position vis-a-vis Macedonia.
      To say Macedonia speaks a Bulgarian language is absurd, as the Bulgarians spoke a Turkic language originally, only adopting 'Macedonian' after being assimilated by the local population and culture.

    • AnonymousTirana RulesSun, Mar 08 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      AnonymousKLSun, Mar 08 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      AnonymousBorisSun, Mar 08 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      AnonymousPeter JanovskiSun, Mar 08 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

      AnonymousPeter JanovskiSat, Mar 07 2009

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    • Anonymous
      Peter Janovski Rating:
      neutral
      #9 00, 30, Sat, Mar 07 2009

      You Bulgarians continue to dream.Ancient or todays geografical Macedonia was never Skopjan/Slavic.The name "Macedonia" is a cloned name,not because, you are.You are so obsest with the ancient mythology its no fun anymore.Cant you get it through your heads,you are not the same Hellens 2500 years ago.You are in denial,you are the majority Albanians/Bulgarians,same as your President Tito.27 out of 57 PM since 1990s were Bulgarians.Wake-up my friends so we can have a meaningful disscution on our Balkan problems.

    • AnonymousPeter JanovskiFri, Mar 06 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous neutral
      #7 20, 48, Fri, Mar 06 2009

      Well, Hvala lepa to Revolution in Skopje for what must be the longest posting I have ever seen, all about Serbian history in Skopje. But I would ask one short and simple question: in today's world, DOES IT MATTER ? I would suggest not.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #6 16, 02, Fri, Mar 06 2009

      Serbs in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia(FYROM) are an extension from the central parts of Serbian ethnicity, related to archaic groups in Kosovo and Metohija as well to a larger degree, with the basin of river Morava. That Serbs are found among early medieval Slav settlers of the Vardar/Axios region is confirmed by sources which identify the city of Gordoservon in Asia Minor as founded by introduction of Serb captives from the aforementioned area. The exact nature and scope of this early Serbian settlement in FYROM is not known, but it can be safely assumed that it was minuscule [...]

      Read the full comment and any demographic and ethnolinguistic influence was probably lost in the Byzanto-Bulgarian struggles of the next few centuries.

      Serbians established their massive presence in Povardarje (today’s FYROM) and parts of Macedonia (Northern Greece) after King Milutin’s conquest of Polog, Skoplje and Ovče Polje area in northernmost Povardarje in 1282. The catastrophic defeat of Bulgarians at the Battle of Velbužd (Ćustendil) in 1330 inflicted by the Serbian army removed the final challenge to Serbian authority in Povardarje. Conclusive with the act of coronation of Stephan Dušan in his capital Skoplje, Serbian population was implanted in both Pologs, in enclaves around Debar, in the wider regions of Skoplje and Ovče Polje and in small extent in Greek cities of Kastoria and Serres, which together with the southern area of FYROM compromised the part of Dušan’s Empire whose Greek character was observed as the cultural policy of the Nemanjić court.

      The period of the Serbian rule in Povardarje was characterized by strong cultural initiative in the domain of ecclesiastic art, primarily architecture. Several hundreds of Christian temples build or substantially reconstructed in the relatively brief Serbian period of Povardarje testify to the intensity and maturity of Serbian culture of the era. “Dušan’s Law”, a legal codex and a de facto constitution of the late medieval Serbian state proclaimed in Skoplje as well as the great number of manuscripts and epigraphic monuments produced in that era do not mention “Macedonians”, in contrast with other ethnic groups such as Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs, Bulgarians and Saxons.

      The abrupt end of Serbian domination of Povardarje came with the invasion of Ottoman Turks, a militant Asiatic tribe which confronted the Serb defenders at Marica (Černomen) in 1371 in a battle described by the contemporaries as clash of Serbs and Greeks against the Turks.

      Devoid of freedom and without centralist institutions, with the exception of the inclusion of northern FYROM under jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Peć in 17th and 18th century, Serbs as well as other local Christians were forced to the status of “dhimi”, marginalized and enslaved population that theoretically enjoyed scriptural protection granted by Muslim overlords.

      It would appear that there are the central trend in the history of FYROM was its De-Serbization in cultural and demographic sense and the reemergence of the Bulgarian rural population. While this process was not either linear nor it is complete, in the light of total absence of works about the history, language and culture by science of FYROM organized along lines of Pseudomacedonian supremacy, few aspects of Serbian presence in early and middle Ottoman period deserve mention.

      Western and local Catholic sources generally acknowledge that Skoplje (today’s Skopje, the capital of FYROM) as well as Kratovo, a town located east from Skoplje, have a Serbian character. This was reported by Jakov Sorranzo in 1575, Martin Crusius and Aleksandar Komulović in 1584, Nicolo Longi in 1622, Bishop Peter of Sophia in 1665, Urban Cerri in 1680. Bishop Peter Bogdani in 1685, Bishop of Cotor Marin Drago in 1690 are more specific, mentioning Skoplje’s Serbian and Greek population. These ethnic groups are mentioned also by Bishop Matija Masarek in 1770 and 1790.

      Orthodox clerics Bratan Ivanov, Dimitrije Petrov and Mihailo of Kratovo were registered in historical sources as Serbs upon their arrival in Russia, during the middle phase of Ottoman rule.

      Furthemore, one of the most common male names among the Slavs of Povardarje registered by Turkish demographic records is “Srbin” (a Serb) which was popular even at the beginning of the 20th century. Undoubtedly, it was given as a way to express nostalgia for the Nemanjići period, the last Slavic epoch of freedom.

      The beginning of the last phase of De-Serbization of Povardarje started with the partial forced assimilation out of the circumstances created by the Serbian uprisings in 1804 and 1815 on the territory of today’s Serbia, when a number of Serbs took the Bulgarian ethnic name out of conformism. This phenomena was accelerated with the dying of Serbian schools in northern FYROM by the middle of the 19th century and their replacement by the school system of the Bulgarian Exarchate founded in 1871. The emancipation of the surrounding Bulgarian population, primarily as a reaction against perceived eminent status of the Greek clergy and the emerging class of Greek bourgeoisie in southern towns of FYROM further created preconditions for assimilation of the Serb population already weakened and marginalized from participation in the wider emergence of nationalist sentiments. It is only after beginning of propagandist activity sponsored by official Belgrade in the late 19th century and the appearance of Serbian paramilitary, the Četniks, after 1904 that the described process of ethnic melting was halted and partially reversed. It should be emphasized that the competition of nationalities in the Povardarje region in the closing years of 19th and the first years of 20th century caused more often than not a confusion with regard of self-determination of local individuals.

      Finally, the ideology of “Macedonism”appeared as an embrionic form and precursor to creation of the nominally “Macedonian” nation in Tito’s Yugoslavia after 1944, although in the preceding decades it was nothing more than intellectual concept nurtured among few people, in opposition of the all-pervasive Bulgarian national feeling south of Skoplje and north and eastern of Pelagonia registered by great number of foreign visitors and recognized by scholars as such. The Serb presence in FYROM in the closing decades of Turkish rule in Europe was nevertheless registered by travelers such as J. Muller, C. Robert, E. Spencer, I. S. Jastrebov, K. Ostreich and others.

      Among ethnographic customs the archaic and exclusively Serbian custom of “Krsna Slava”, festivity in honor of a Patron Saint, observed even today in spite of decades of Communist oppression of spirituality in general and the Christians in particular, serves as a certain marker of Serbian ancestry of a great number of “Macedonians” of South Slavic type, chiefly in northern and western Povardarje regions.

      The legacy of decades of Marxist-Titoist concept of social organization in the Ex-Yugoslav republic and the post-1992 process of symbolic De-Slavization of the “Macedonian” identity in FYROM proved as an obstacle to consolidation of the Serbian identity at local level. The name “Macedonia” for a region belonging to the ancient regions of Paeonia and Dardania substituted the geographic name (southern) Serbia from the north of the country. Scholarship about the Serbian language, folklore and ethnology became non-existent due to the acquired reorientation of the public discourse towards building a fictional “Macedonian” identity rooted in classical antiquity. The presence of ethnic Serbs in FYROM, which numbers over 180. 000 people, mostly undeclared as such due to social pressure, was acknowledged by the constitution of the young Balkan nation only in 2002.

      Pressure towards Serbs in FYROM continues as an unofficial policy and as folkoristic phenomena according to which they are mixture of “colonists” from Serbia and other areas of former Yugoslavia on one hand and “srbomani”, I. e. “Macedonians” or Bulgarians – depending on the perspective – which converted into Serbianism and are, by implication, traitors from the “Macedonian” collective guided by opportunism. Such stigmatization is part of a broader policy of homogenization of the entities characterized by Orthodox Christian affinity, including Greeks, Greek-Vlachs and conscious Bulgarians, under the banner of Pseudomacedonian ideology.

      It remains to be seen are Serbs in FYROM going to prevail the local atmosphere of quiet dehumanization and “Macedonisation” in light of the phlegmatic attitude of Serbia with regard to cultural sponsorship of Serbian communities abroad. Modest successes regarding ethnic preservation and creation of ethnic metaphysical values after the change of the FYROMian constitution are encouraging signs, but complete revitalization of the local Serbian national culture can be achieved only in opposition to “Macedonizing” trends and creation of political appeal against national defeatism and fatalism.

    • Anonymous neutral
      #5 13, 29, Fri, Mar 06 2009

      I think "Revolution in Skopje" has got it particularly wrong with all these arguable ethnic /linguistic claims from the pre-Christian era. Life moves on, and politics moves on, and in particular current geo-politics is about "now is", and not "then was". (Look at Vietnam as an example, or even the Baltic States, now in the EU, but 20 years ago part of the USSR.) Unfortunately, the post-1945 Greek government has cultivated a "pseudo-ethnicity" whereby supposedly 99% of the current population is ethnically Greek....pull the other leg, it's got brass bells on it !

    • AnonymousRevolution in SkopjeFri, Mar 06 2009

      This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained

    • Anonymous
      John Rating:
      neutral
      #3 08, 55, Fri, Mar 06 2009

      So called 'greeks' are behaving like Nazi Germans in the 1930's. Macedonia was never greek nor will it ever be. The faster you face this reality the less backwards your country will go, printing propaganda and wasting EU money on that very propaganda, lies and hysteria. An example is that no one takes a country serious when they say they are '99% pure' in their census - a 5 year child has more brains and common sense - your race is made a fool of by backward, village educated politicians. Wake up and smell the turkish coffee oh thats 'greek' [...]

      Read the full comment too? Unbelievable.

    • Anonymous
      torontonian Rating:
      neutral
      #2 05, 01, Fri, Mar 06 2009

      we are in the 21st century..it's about time that all stuborn greeks take their heads out from the sand ..if you want to be greeks , be it..you have no right force others to be something else..in the 1930's greece changed our family names..our towns, rivers and mountains , now you want to erace us from existance...shame to you all..if this is not a form of racism, then what can we call it?

    • Anonymous neutral
      #1 23, 02, Thu, Mar 05 2009

      FYROM must stop promoting hate towards Greece and find a solution to its name. Everyone that has learned and readed about ancient Greece know that Ancient Macedonia are all Greek just like Spartans, Athenians, Corithians etc, and not a slavic nation like FYROM.
      FYROM are Bulgarians slavs who arrived into Europe 1000 years after Alexander the Great.
      FYROM also speak a Bulgarian language.
      Think about..

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