United Nations headquarters in New York. UN-brokered talks between Athens and Skopje on the 'Macedonia name dispute' continue to produce no result.
Photo: UN
Participants in the February 11 2009 meeting in New York between representatives of Athens and Skopje on the long-running dispute over the use of the name Macedonia have said that no new proposals were put on the table and the next round would be in some months' time.
Matthew Nimetz, the mediator appointed by the United Nations to resolve the dispute, said that there were no new proposals but also no impasse, according to a report by Greek daily Kathimerini. No date has been set for the next talks.
Nimetz said that "positive steps" and "a more positive climate" were necessary to push forward negotiations.
Greece's envoy Adamantios Vassilakis said the talks were "calm."
Greek daily Vima said that Skopje's newly-appointed chief negotiator in the dispute, Zoran Yolevski said that "we want to find a decision due to the fact it will be positive progress for the stability in the region."
Vasilakis said that the coming months there would be presidential and local elections in the former Yugoslav republic, and that the new Macedonian president would not take office before May 15, and that EU states would be electing members of the European Parliament.
News agency MIA said that Nimetz had asked for a positive atmosphere for the sake of facilitating a settlement in the name dispute.
Yolevski told Voice of America - Macedonian Program that he had said that "the integrity and dignity of Macedonia's citizens must be protected, since they have been committed to the reform process in meeting conditions for the Nato membership invitation.
"We did not open the latest Nimetz proposal and did not debate on essential issues, but on the further developments in the negotiating process. Discussions also tackled the creation of a favourable atmosphere between the two countries for the purpose of facilitating the solution," Yolevski said.
Skopje and Athens last year rejected proposals for a compromise presented by Nimetz in October. Subsequently, Macedonia said that it was taking Athens to international court alleging that Greece's blocking of Macedonia's Nato aspirations was a treaty violation.
Peter if you don't stop wasting your time on that darn computer then you wont get any tonight and we both know how much you like a big one up your bum. You spend too much time writing stupid things so stop or you can go find another Albanian to slap you around and give it to you.
Peter JanovskiSun, Mar 08 2009 22:13 CET
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On Sunday March 8,at 2.03 a comment was atributed to me by someone who uses my name.My message to you is as follows;Na pas na gamisis tin manasu ke ean ehis adelfes na tus gamisis.Esi ise rofianos ke gei.No wonder, you so-called "Greeks" are ashamed of your existance when you cannot even identify yourselfs.This is exacly the same as you cannot identify yourselfs who you realy are,and are stealing our history,you are shameless.Go ahead, you can mimic me,but it will never be unanswered.I will never lowere my self to the level you have.I dont,because I am proud Macedonian,not like you [...]
However, all of the universities from Oxford all the way to Harvard refute your claim that Macedonia was not Greek. If the Macedonians were not Greek then why did they not spread their own culture and language when Alexander begin his conquests? Why is it called the Hellenistic Age and the Macedonian Age? Similarly, Alexander himself admitted to being Greek:
"For I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery". Herodotus IX, 45, 2 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
And let us not forget that [...]
Read the full commentAlexander's mother was undeniably a Greek Princess from the Greek kingdom of Epirus.
Whereas the Skopjan president admits of the true identity of the inhabitants of Vadar:
"We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian. The Serbian not only want to colonize Macedonia with Serbs from other part of Yugoslavia, but they wish to kill our Bulgarian consciousness. They took our right to call ourselves Bulgarians, even Macedonians, they intrude their schools and education, so much false and Jesuit, so much as the study of St. Sava and finally they come to the idea for the special Macedonian nationality, which they discover in South Macedonia." - Krste Misirkov
Is it not ironic that Macedonia is a Greek word meaning "tall people" but yet somehow Macedonia is not Greek? In the population census done by the Romans, the inhabitants of Macedonians were described as Greeks. By the Ottoman times, the dominant population was still Greeks but also Muslims, Jews and Vlachs. Yet somehow none of the past empires from the Romans to the Ottomans have ever mentioned a thing of "ethnic Macedonians" nor "Makedonski". Similarly, the Ptolomys, the Macedonian dynasty, that ruled Egypt before the Romans referred to themselves as being "Hellenic". Infact, Egyptian sources say that Cleopatra is the first Greek ruler to have learned their own local language (note they do not say Macedonian).
Even the Macedonian symbol, the Vergina Sun, is Greek symbolizing the 12 gods:
"The Vergina Sun (or Star) is the intellectual property of Greece and a state emblem of the country [10][11] under the World Intellectual Property Organization, as well in its different variations." (WIPO)
Nevertheless, your opposition to the Greek use of Macedonia hardly has any effect on the millions who inhabit the Province of Macedonia and identify themselves as Macedonians. The only way to have it your way is to commit genocide in order to silence them, good luck with that!
@ Revolution in Skopje...
The stupidity of what you write can be rebuffed quite simply.
Eugene Borza, the foremost authority on ancient MAcedonia clearly states that the ancient Macedonians were not Greek, and the fact you find Greek inscriptions on the territory of Macedonia is no proof of the ethnicity of the people that lived there anymore than Roman (latin) inscriptions that are in Britain show the Roman character of Britain!
Peter JanovskiSun, Mar 08 2009 02:03 CET
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Peter JanovskiSun, Mar 08 2009 00:31 CET
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Revolution in SkopjeMon, Mar 02 2009 23:11 CET
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PeterMon, Mar 02 2009 21:29 CET
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PeterMon, Mar 02 2009 21:28 CET
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Pierre - 3 minutes at most if you've got high speed Broadband. I regard it as a few minutes' relaxation before going on to more serious stuff elsewhere, and it's good practice for sheer invective. Anyway. it's fun windng Peter up - any moment now he will claim that Macedonians rule the Galaxy. Do we mobilise the Time Lords now or later ?
David you are wrong, Macedonia is not Greek but Slavic. The ancient Macedonians were ProtoSlavs. For example, Alexander means "great man" in the Macedonian language. And Macedonia means the "land of greatness" in our Macedonian language. You need relearn your history and languages.
Only 3 minutes on the internet David? Come on now, glancing at the number of posts you have written on this site I say you have exceeded even computer nerds. Although I do agree on the comical nature of Peters tantrums, I do believe you still need to get a life.
Alexandros / Alexander - Come on, it's only 3 minutes on the Internet to wind up Peter something rotten, and we then hear how Makedonija will take over Europe, the World, the Galaxy, and the Universe - and all from Skopje too ! Don't begrudge us our fun, and we won't begrudge you your pretensions that Makedonija really is Greek after all. Get a sense of humour....
to Peter - sorry, it's definitely spelled "Grease" and not "Greese". This is true both for the material you lubricate car wheels with and also for the famous film starring John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John. The country of Hellas - or Yunanistan as some of us like to refer to it - is of course called "Greece". Hope this is helpful.
Bitola. All bones of Bulgarian officers and soldiers buried in Bulgarian military graves, common graves and military cemeteries should be buried in one bone vault with a Macedonian monument on top saying: In memory of Macedonian soldiers forced to mobilization in 1915-1918 and 1941-1944. This is the directive issued by the bishop of the eparchy of Prespa and Pelagonia, Petar, Focus News Agency’s correspondent in Skopje reported.
The first part of the plan has already been implemented – the priests in the district of Bitola were ordered to “describe and study” all graves of officers and soldiers on [...]
Read the full commentthe “territory of the church property and rural cemeteries.”
The eparchy of Prespa and Pelagonia was not singled out randomly due to two reasons at least, sources told Focus News Agency.
Bishop Petar, who is known for investing the assets of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in the Bitola financial pyramid TAT, has a negative attitude to Bulgaria. It was his idea for Bulgarian tourists, who visit the churches in the eparchy, to ask for a special permission from the bishop’s office. He insisted that the team of Bulgarian journalist Martin Karbovski should not be admitted to Saint George church in the village of Capari, Bitola region. The Bitola bishop refuses to appoint priests who graduated from the Seminary in Sofia. He does not apply the same standards to priests who have graduated from the Seminary in Bucharest, for example.
The second reason for the approach of “erasing Bulgarian material memories” is absolutely geographical and military – the eparchy includes the towns of Bitola, Prilep, Resen, Demir Hisar, Krusevo and others, as well as the monasteries Saint Michael the Archangel in Varos, Prilep region, Assumption of Virgin Mary in Treskavec, Saint Joan the Baptist in Slipce, Birth of Virgin Mary in Slivnica, Prespa region, and others.
Most of the above mentioned monasteries still hold material traces of Bulgarian spiritual culture, despite a series of attempts to destroy and erase them.
One of the most severe battles of the Bulgarian Armed Forces against Serbian Royal Army and united forces of the Triple Entente took place between 1915 and 1918 on the territory of today’s eparchy of Prespa and Pelagonia. Dozens of thousands of monuments to known and unknown Bulgarian officers and soldiers, mass military graves and common graves lie on the territory of the eparchy. Most of them are situated in church yards and in abandoned villages and hamlets along the Macedonian-Greek border.
In the eparchy there are two French military cemeteries, as well as Serbian, German and Greek military cemeteries.
The new provocative measures undertaken by the regime of Nikola Gruevski show that the political leadership of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia decided to create a virtual reality as a substitute for normal free life of its citizens. The Prime Minister of the small Balkan nation, termed “the immortal and eternal shepherd and leader of his people” by the state TV continued the policy of historical revisionism carried through occult usurpation of the space much to the disbelief and revolt among outside observers which slowly but steadily begun to understand its eerie monstrosity.
Since its [...]
Read the full commentseparation from Yugoslavia in 1991, FYROM struggled with its troubled past originating from the ideology of separate “Macedonian” nation formulated by the Bulgarian VMRO, later by Communist Internationale in 1934 and implemented on its soil from 1944 onwards by Yugoslav Communist dictator Josip Broz “Tito”. While there is a convergence in the global Balkanology-oriented historiography that prior to 1944 most of FYROMian so-called “Macedonian” population was ethnically Bulgarian, energetic Titoist policy of allocating large funds to creation of schools, media outlets, institutions, museums and other cultural institution among the hitherto extremely backward people managed to instill a strong sense of one’s “Macedonian” ethnicity, neither Bulgarian, nor Serb and categorically as well as diametrically opposed to any other interpretation of local culture and politics. After 60 years of such totalitarian “national-communist” model which is continued today in altered form by the ruling “Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization” (VMRO), this view escalated into widespread belief among the general public that the Pseudomacedonian ethnic group has its direct ancestry from Ancient Macedonians, a Greek entity bulk of which historically inhabited modern-day northern Greek province of Macedonia.
A mountain of evidence exists against this postulated linear connection brought by two centuries of historical and linguistic studies against any connection, including those of cultural, linguistic and demographical type between Macedonians of antiquity and FYROMian Slavs of Bulgarian and Serbian type. However, the lack of any kind of public discourse as well as absence of alternative media brought confusion about the national identity of the population of self-styled Bulgarian-speaking “Macedonians”. Although, with the possible exception of North Korea, the phenomenon of collective government-imposed delusion in FYROM is the largest and most profound such example in modern times, it didn’t attract the due interest from scholars and thinkers worldwide. History and politicology never hitherto witnessed that a massive disposition in an ethnic groups towards symbolical connection with a imagined ancestral stock whose alien character is apparent from a cursory glance over history, geography and facts of language may function as a central foundation of both internal and external politics in their totality
a couple of posts down you claim (you and a whole lot of skopjans) that the Rosetta stone was written in Protoslav.....how can anyone take you seriously Peter?
To David the second.David, I will try to make it plain for you what I mean nipple and greese.Greece has maintained that Macedonia and its history are Greek.Well, I disagree with them fo the following reason;Macedonia never belonged to Greece,in ancient times or reasont times.The wheell with the bearing and the greese nipple represents Greeces repetitive claimes of ownership of Macedonia and its history.Now that Macedonia gained its independance from Serbia(Yugoslavja)is reclaiming its own history.What does that mean?Greece has been telling the world that Macedonia is Greece,it is comming to an end,as of the result the wheel bearing and greese [...]
Read the full commentniple have seized to operate"seized-up"they cannot continue to claime "Macedonia is Greece",do you understand what I mean?Macedonia is the rightful owner of the Macedonian history and its people,NOT Greece.Therefore,Greeces oiling(fabricating) mechanism is coming to a full STOP due to no more oil reaching the bearing,it is seizing, cannot turn any more for Greece.On the Vasilis Dendramanis,he was a high ranking Greek representative at the Serves meeting of the League of Nations regarding Macedonia in 1925.He told the Bulgarians and Serbs that greece is printing the Abcedar for the Macedonian children, when both Serbs and Bulgarians protested not to print the Abcedar in Macedonian. Mr.Dendramanis defended the Macedonian language as being"Neigther Bulgarian,nor Serbian but an independent language"He listed various linguists and linguistic maps as evidance to support his claim of the independence of the Macedonian language. The High ranking Greek official representing the Greek State not only recognized the existance of Macedonian identity, but openly defended and supported it.However,Serbian and Bulgarian objections, together with internal opposition in Greece prevented the Abcedar from ever reaching the Macedonian children.The Abcedar was destroyed, but remaines as a reminder to the Greek government of the Macedonians as a sepatate national entity.I sincerely hope,I answered your question.On this site there are two Peters,but it is only me who defends my ethnicity,and not supporting the Greek propaganda.
I am reluctantly coming to the view that Peter is rapidly losing his (Elgin ?) Marbles. He doesn't answer reasonable points made to him, and increasingly rants on about a future scenario in which Makedonija Rules The World. I don't support the Greek cause, but
this sort of idealistic nonsense makes a mockery of sensible discussion.
I'll give you a date in the future when the Republic of Macedonia will rule europe once again! We shall conquer Pirin Macedonia and Aegean Macedonia and you shall bow down to Great Macedonia!
Peter is being a bit careless with his dates or his millenia - there was no invasion of Britain by sub-Saharan Africans in "1500 AD " as he claims. This was during the reign of King Henry VII, who was adept at avoiding wars and invasions alike. May I suggest that Peter communes with the spirit of Einstein to ensure that he gets his dates right within a few thousand years or so ? It would
rather add credibility to his arguments if he were to do so.
The Republic of Macedonia will not be bullied by David nor by the "big powers" and greece any more. Who are you to doubt the legitimacy and archaic origins of the glorious Macedonian language? YOu are after descendants of subsaharan africans (they invaded Britain in 1500 AD). Even Einstein glorified the Macedonian language.
Still doubtful about Peter's claim that Macedonian is the oldest language in the world - what about Mandarin Chinese or the Inca / Aztec languages, to say nothing of the ancient languages of Indo-China ? Japanese too goes back a very long way into history.
What I mean to say that Macedonian language is the oldest in the world, older than bastardized greek. Eglish and latin were both founded based on the Macedonian language. Just read what Einstein said in glory of the Macedonian language
When Peter talks about the "greese in the wheel", does he mean "grease" or "Greece". Both would fit into the context. What he means by the "nipple breaking off" I daren't imagine ! I don't know who on earth Vasilis Dendramanis is - though the name sounds Hellenic to me, and "dendros" means a tree in Greek, so I suppose it might translate as Vasilis the Wooden-Top ?
Actually, it has been proven that the ancient Macedonian language was Albanian. Alexander himself was Albanian by descent. Skopje became a country only in the 1990s...you're not even 50 yrs old. If you truly are Macedonians then why didnt you claim all of the Macedonian region instead of only geting the Vadar region?
Just to make it very clear to the Greek and Bulgarians,the Macedonian language is neither Bulgarian nor Serbian nor Greek,it is an independent language.Read what Vasilis Dendramanis said to the Bulgarians and Serbs in 1925.The propaganda Greeks and Bulgarians are engaged in is drying out the greese in the wheel.The wheel of falsification of history can no longer be greesed,the nipple broke off since 1991.
Brandon and David you have been influenced by the Big Powers who have rewritten history. The Macedonian language is the oldest in the world so how could your welsh, lithunian and greek be older? This an obvious example of the ethnic genocide of the Macedonian language by greece and the big powers. You British arent even pure anglo saxons. After the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic invasion of Morea (the modern day Peleponnesus) and the Aegean islands around 1,600 BC, the sub-saharan africans migrated north of europe and invaded Britain. Your origins are sub-saharan african!
Brandon has a point - let's all look back at our respective national antecedents. In my case Cymreig (Welsh) is the oldest extant language in Europe, and is also Yr Iaith Ar Nefoedd (the language used in Heaven by God and the Angels). The next oldest is apparently Lithuanian, which has very many archaic Indo-European features such as the use of the dual number (i.e. singular - dual- plural. Ancient Greek had this too.
So is all of Greek history just "Makedonski"? So everything about Greek history that the universities teach from Oxford all the way to Harvard just a lie?
Your ultra PseudoMacedonia fanaticism created by Tito is testimony of your own delusion. Ok every one, let's just start fabricating our own history like Peter.
Also, the Olympian gods were actually Macedonian and not greek as the Great Powers have led us to believe. For example, Zeus is the original Macedonian name of the father of the gods but the greeks even to this day call him Dias. Zeus is the Macedonian name and Dias is the greek name.
Now that we have agreed on the ProtoSlav origins of the Rosetta Stone I can tell you now that it should not be a shock that the Macedonian language influenced the celtic and hebrew languanges thousand of years ago. Greek is a relatively new language. Everyone thinks that greek was the first language to use a separate symbol for vowels but it was in fact the Macedonian language. Thus the Macedonian language has had more of an influence on the english language than greek. For example, the letter Alpha was originally Macedonian but over the years we just used the [...]
Read the full commentsound "A" to refer to alpha to simplify matters. See the greeks are still in the stone age since they still have actual names for their letters.
Thanks indeed to Peter for posting this interesting bit of "scholarship". I don't doubt that the middle 'band' of the Rosetta stone may conceal some secrets still to be revealed. But I still cannot see any link to Celtic or to Old French (and, believe me, if you knew the old Celtic Uncial alphabet that goes back 4000 years, you would recognise it immediately. Microsoft don't do it, but I still remember it from school in Wales and can write it if need be. The Irish can too, if they are scholars.)
"Greek", In Reality, Was Just Another Ancient Pre-Christian Religious Term!
Before the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic invasion of Morea (the modern day Peleponnesus) and the Aegean islands around 1,600 BC, there were already major towns called 'Argos' at Morea and to the northwest of Mt.Olympus. The term 'Graikos' referred to both peoples from the two towns of Argos.Ar-gos > Ar/the Sun god 'Ra', gos > kos/'zeus'.
(G)-ra-i-kos > Zh(ive)-ra-i-kos/the 'life giving' Sun god 'Ra' 'and' 'zeus'.
The 'Graikos' from "Argos" were a people whom believed in the 'life giving' Sun god 'ra' and 'zeus'. The [...]
Read the full comment'Graikos' from the 'Argos' which was to the northwest of Mt. Olympus also called themselves 'Sloveni'.
S-lo-ve > Zh(ive)-li (Zhi)vee/the 'life giving' Sun god 'li' 'lives'.
The 'Graikos' from the 'Argos' at Morea also called themselves 'Elleni'.
E-lle > (zhiv)E-lle/the 'life giving' 'Sun god' 'le'.
After the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic invasion of Morea and the Aegean islands around 1,600 BC (and the subsequent assimilation) the 'Elleni' there became "hybrids" and started to call themselves "Ellines". Their indigenous language and alphabet had changed to an early form of 'koine'.
Ironically, the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic colonists themselves had already believed in 'Ra' and 'Ko' (zeus)!
From 825 BC, north of Mt. Olympus, the indigenous 'Sloveni' there became unified within the early state of Makedon (Mothers home).
After the early state of Makedon was formed, the "Ellines" south of Mt.Olympus, particularly around Morea, started to form independent of each other City State!
It doesn't come as a surprise that later Roman maps refer to the territory of Morea as "Achaea".
A(r)-chae-a > A(r)-gae-a. Achaea is derived from the original town at Argos!
The "Southern Balkan (Mediterranean) Republic" is an artificial creation! It is not "Greece"!
The 19th century cold blooded Western Powers wrongly imposed the name "Greece" on this forged, anti-Slav/anti-Russian buffer state!
Bastardized Koine, (not Greek!) too, was artificially imposed on its ethnically diverse population!
In 1913, backed by the west, the "Southern Balkan (Mediterranean) Republic" (not Greece) illegally annexed 51% of Southern Macedonia from the Ottomans!
PeterThu, Feb 19 2009 21:29 CET
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So Celtic has proto-Macedonian roots too, says Peter. Do please give some examples. (I should warn you that I know both Welsh / Cymraeg and Irish / Gaeltacht. ) Otherwise this is as much of a fairy story as the Rosetta Stone containing Old French or Old Macedonian (funny, last time I saw it here in London, I could have sworn it was in two sorts of Egyptian hieroglyphics and a dialect of Ancient Greek. Maybe I
should buy new, Macedonian-coloured, spectacles so as to see the Old French and Celtic uncial script properly.)
Every single empire that has conquered they made sure to spread their culture and LANGUAGE. Yes, Greek was the international language back in the day but that did not stop the Romans from spreading their own language, Latin. So do tell us Peter, if the Macedonians were Skopjian, then why did they not spread their own language, "protoslav" or "macedonian"?
The Rosetta Stone was not written in Old French but in ProtoSlav, the Macedonian language today which is the official language of the Republic of Macedonian. The Macedonian language is the oldest language in the world, older than Latin and Greek. The Macedonians only spoke Greek during formal occasions but the rest of the time they spoke Macedonian. Even the Hebrews in the Old Testament spoke Macedonian
to Real Macedonian - never mind the Skopjan claim for the moment -
just justify your own rather improbable claim that the Rosetta Stone is partly written in Old French. If you can't do this, we can't take you seriously. (Since the Rosetta Stone was first discovered by Napoleon's army, who included a lot of educated officers who knew the old form of their own French language, one would have thought that they might
have noticed this themselves !)
Here's the challenge to "Real Macedonian" - just give me one short but clear example of the similarity between Old French and either Ancient Greek or Doric Macedonian. Until then I shall have to find your view of history seriously ridiculous. (And for the Rosetta Stone being in Egyptian, Greek and Old French, really.....that strains credibity just too far.) C'est trop loyn, mon
vieux, sans quelle esperance.
And where did the Etruscans get their alphabet. Also, the Phoenician alphabet did not have letters for vowels, that was invented by the Macedonians. Besides the fact, are you so quick to believe those crazy "historians" in Skopje and yet you find my view on history ridiculous?
Grateful if Real Macedonian could give me an actual example of Doric Macedonian against its Old French equivalent. It does sound just a bit incredible otherwise, especially as the Greek alphabet came from Phoenician, the Latin alphabet from Etruscan, and the Celtic alphabet (Uncial) direct from God ! Seriously, it's all just a bit hard to believe. (I know King Louis V of France led a Crusade in the region in the middle ages - maybe this is the origin of the story ?)
Real Macedonian - David 2Mon, Feb 16 2009 21:00 CET
Obviously David 2 you have never studied the Doric dialect the ancient Macedonians spoke then you would see the similarities. Also, where do you suppose Latin came from?
The ancient Macedonians were French in descent and not Slavic/Skopjian
to Real Macedonian - WHAT resemblance between Old French and Greek? I studied both languages at Uni, and Old French is related to Latin, not Greek. Both languages are Indo-European, sure, with six verb persons and separate declined adjectives and nouns, but this also includes all Slavonic languages too. (Look at Hungarian, which is totally different, and you will see what I mean !)
Just as an exercise, try putting Henri III's poetic couplet : "Ou est celuy vivant en France, Qui endurast tel mortel desplesir" - which is authentic old French, into either modern or [...]
Ethnic Macedonians do not exist, Macedonians were Albanians and so was Alexander. Is there any slav out there intelligent enough to answer why the Rosetta Stone was written in albanian and not in Skopjian? If Skopje is Macedonia, then answer why in the 1990s when Skopje gained independence why didn't it get all of Macedonia instead of just the Vadar region??? Bet you cant answer that can you? Or why did Demosthenes called the Philip and his men Albanians but not "Makedonski"? Or why the Ottomans never mentioned a thing of "ethnic Macedonians" in Macedonia but just a majority of [...]
Republic of Macedonia has no need to negotiate its constitutional name.Just for information towards the so-called Greeks.Today as we speak,there are no Hellens in Greece.The ancient Hellens have dissapiered long time ago.I find it ironic when an Albanian,Koutsovlah claimes Hellenism that has abpsolutly no ancestral connection.When they claim that Macedonia is Greece,the fact is,Macedonians are not even close to the pseudo Greeks,Ancient Macedonians and ancient Hellens have absolutly no ancestral connection with todays pseudo-Greeks.It is ilagical,it is a fabrication of a nonesical greek history.Here is a question for the Greeks;Why in 1912-13 at the Bucharest agreement Greece agreed to retain [...]
Read the full comment51% of Macedonian teritory,and allowing Bulgaria and Serbia to take the 49% of the teritory?If Macedonia is Greek,why did you walk away from the whole geografical Macedonia?In 337 BC why Demosthenes wrote for the Hellenic common grave,but not for the fallen Macedonians at Chaeronea?.Is there an inteligent Greek who can realy answer this whithout bias?.Lets have a real dialog on history without distortion of history.Lets use common sense,and not continue just with politics.
Actually the ancient Macedonians were were a Gallic tribe from the north that colonized the Macedonia region. So therefore, the Macedonians and Alexander were actually French in descent which explains the grammatical similarities between old French and Greek. The Macedonians were not slavic as there is no evidence of it and todays population of Skopje have NO relation to the true Macedonians
ToniSun, Feb 15 2009 18:05 CET
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although all people from different backrounds living in the geographicly region of Macedonia have the right to call themselfs Macedonians,is absurd for them to claim the hellenic heritage as firstly not being Helenic and then claiming it as their own,truly absurd!
Macedonia and Alexander were Bulgarian. Ancient Macedonians spoke a dialect of Bulgarian and Skopje was Bulgarian before it ever was "Makedonski". Macedonia for Bulgarians!
Republic of Macedonia has no reason to negotiate its constitutional name.The Macedonian citizens did vote freely in 1991 for their identity as Macedonians.Macedonia must put a stop on these negotiations foethwhith.The Republic of Albanoturkia has no right to dictate a name to an independent State that the name identifies their ethnicity.Furthere,the claim by the so-called "Greece"on Macedonia being "Greek" is absurd.The UN is out of line by asking a State to change its identity because another State claims it identifies their identity. If that is the case,why "Greece" does not change their name to Republic of Macedonia.Ever since 1913,Greece called [...]
Read the full commentthe Aegean Macedonia as Hellas,and never Macedonia.The word Macedonia was forbiden up to 1989,why now!Well, Greece has a reason,and that reason is the ocupied Macedonia and its indiginous Macedonian people that this State refuses to recognize as separate ethnic people.This would criple their claim of 99% purity of being Hellens even that they have no connection to the ancient Hellens.They refuse to acknowledge the mix of people living in this State.Their population mix is as follows;40% Albanian,over 1 million Turks,1 million indiginous Macedonians, Vlahs,Roma, Jews and other immigrants.They are guarding the virginity that they lost and never had!The world should know that Greece received 51% of Macedonian teritory and Serbia and Bulgaria received 49%,thanks to the Big Powers of the day (England and France),even the the President of the USA Wodrow Wilsons signature on the division of Macedonia in Bucharest of August 12-13,1913.Why the UN does not call on the Balkan,or International historians to sort out the real Balkan history,instead presuring a small independent State to relinquish its identity that caried for centuries in this geografical area.The people of the Republic of Macedonia,Aegian Macedonia the Pirin Macedonia and small Prespa.This was the geografic Macedonia that all people in these areas speak the same language,their customs and worship same religion,different than the occupiers of 1913.Why is the world turning a blind eye to the truth? I am from the Aegean Macedonian, I am Macedonian.My great,great parents were Macedonian long before Macedonia was occupied by the Ottoman Empire.The Ottoman Empire never imposed changes to names to sound Turkish,no changes to toponims like the Hellenic Republic has done to the occupied Macedonians.They even broke the Cardinal rule of not mixing the indigenous people with different ethnicities like the Greeks did with the Pontious in 1925-26 who are of Turkish dicent,who are of same religion but not same ethnicity as the Greeks.If any Macedonian Leader attemps to change our identity should be charged for treason and dealt with.
We have a variety of roots- just like modern greeks. And even if we are pure slavs (not likely) we have lived in Macedonia for 14 centuries. Long enough to belong there.
Skopjians are Bulgarians same language same ethnic background.
Skopjians must accept their Slavic roots. There is no shame in being a Slavic person. Slavic people migrated from the north down to present lands in the Balkans. As a Slavic person I am happy to state that we never had anything to do with Macedon the Ancient Greek Kingdom. We must push our Slavic history which does not include Macedonia.
Long live Slavics!!!
Greece needs the aid package from the European Union, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund in order to avoid defaulting on $19 billion in bond payments due in March.
Peter if you don't stop wasting your time on that darn computer then you wont get any tonight and we both know how much you like a big one up your bum. You spend too much time writing stupid things so stop or you can go find another Albanian to slap you around and give it to you.
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On Sunday March 8,at 2.03 a comment was atributed to me by someone who uses my name.My message to you is as follows;Na pas na gamisis tin manasu ke ean ehis adelfes na tus gamisis.Esi ise rofianos ke gei.No wonder, you so-called "Greeks" are ashamed of your existance when you cannot even identify yourselfs.This is exacly the same as you cannot identify yourselfs who you realy are,and are stealing our history,you are shameless.Go ahead, you can mimic me,but it will never be unanswered.I will never lowere my self to the level you have.I dont,because I am proud Macedonian,not like you [...]
Read the full comment who is hiding in your momys you know ehere.
However, all of the universities from Oxford all the way to Harvard refute your claim that Macedonia was not Greek. If the Macedonians were not Greek then why did they not spread their own culture and language when Alexander begin his conquests? Why is it called the Hellenistic Age and the Macedonian Age? Similarly, Alexander himself admitted to being Greek:
"For I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery". Herodotus IX, 45, 2 (Loeb, A.D. Godley)
And let us not forget that [...]
Read the full comment Alexander's mother was undeniably a Greek Princess from the Greek kingdom of Epirus.
Whereas the Skopjan president admits of the true identity of the inhabitants of Vadar:
"We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian. The Serbian not only want to colonize Macedonia with Serbs from other part of Yugoslavia, but they wish to kill our Bulgarian consciousness. They took our right to call ourselves Bulgarians, even Macedonians, they intrude their schools and education, so much false and Jesuit, so much as the study of St. Sava and finally they come to the idea for the special Macedonian nationality, which they discover in South Macedonia." - Krste Misirkov
Is it not ironic that Macedonia is a Greek word meaning "tall people" but yet somehow Macedonia is not Greek? In the population census done by the Romans, the inhabitants of Macedonians were described as Greeks. By the Ottoman times, the dominant population was still Greeks but also Muslims, Jews and Vlachs. Yet somehow none of the past empires from the Romans to the Ottomans have ever mentioned a thing of "ethnic Macedonians" nor "Makedonski". Similarly, the Ptolomys, the Macedonian dynasty, that ruled Egypt before the Romans referred to themselves as being "Hellenic". Infact, Egyptian sources say that Cleopatra is the first Greek ruler to have learned their own local language (note they do not say Macedonian).
Even the Macedonian symbol, the Vergina Sun, is Greek symbolizing the 12 gods:
"The Vergina Sun (or Star) is the intellectual property of Greece and a state emblem of the country [10][11] under the World Intellectual Property Organization, as well in its different variations." (WIPO)
Nevertheless, your opposition to the Greek use of Macedonia hardly has any effect on the millions who inhabit the Province of Macedonia and identify themselves as Macedonians. The only way to have it your way is to commit genocide in order to silence them, good luck with that!
@ Revolution in Skopje...
The stupidity of what you write can be rebuffed quite simply.
Eugene Borza, the foremost authority on ancient MAcedonia clearly states that the ancient Macedonians were not Greek, and the fact you find Greek inscriptions on the territory of Macedonia is no proof of the ethnicity of the people that lived there anymore than Roman (latin) inscriptions that are in Britain show the Roman character of Britain!
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Pierre - 3 minutes at most if you've got high speed Broadband. I regard it as a few minutes' relaxation before going on to more serious stuff elsewhere, and it's good practice for sheer invective. Anyway. it's fun windng Peter up - any moment now he will claim that Macedonians rule the Galaxy. Do we mobilise the Time Lords now or later ?
David you are wrong, Macedonia is not Greek but Slavic. The ancient Macedonians were ProtoSlavs. For example, Alexander means "great man" in the Macedonian language. And Macedonia means the "land of greatness" in our Macedonian language. You need relearn your history and languages.
Only 3 minutes on the internet David? Come on now, glancing at the number of posts you have written on this site I say you have exceeded even computer nerds. Although I do agree on the comical nature of Peters tantrums, I do believe you still need to get a life.
Alexandros / Alexander - Come on, it's only 3 minutes on the Internet to wind up Peter something rotten, and we then hear how Makedonija will take over Europe, the World, the Galaxy, and the Universe - and all from Skopje too ! Don't begrudge us our fun, and we won't begrudge you your pretensions that Makedonija really is Greek after all. Get a sense of humour....
David, Peter, and the Albanian; you guys are SAD....is this what you do during your spare time? Do get a life
Great Macedonia will subdue and destroy Albania! David the second you must sacrifice your life for Great Macedonia!
Macedonia for Albanians, slave camps for Slavs!
David and Peter, is this the same grease you use to lubricate your vaginas?
I'm glad David the second that we see eye to eye. Now do you finally accept the greatness of Macedonia and bow down to her will?
to Peter - sorry, it's definitely spelled "Grease" and not "Greese". This is true both for the material you lubricate car wheels with and also for the famous film starring John Travolta and Olivia Newton-John. The country of Hellas - or Yunanistan as some of us like to refer to it - is of course called "Greece". Hope this is helpful.
Bitola. All bones of Bulgarian officers and soldiers buried in Bulgarian military graves, common graves and military cemeteries should be buried in one bone vault with a Macedonian monument on top saying: In memory of Macedonian soldiers forced to mobilization in 1915-1918 and 1941-1944. This is the directive issued by the bishop of the eparchy of Prespa and Pelagonia, Petar, Focus News Agency’s correspondent in Skopje reported.
The first part of the plan has already been implemented – the priests in the district of Bitola were ordered to “describe and study” all graves of officers and soldiers on [...]
Read the full comment the “territory of the church property and rural cemeteries.”
The eparchy of Prespa and Pelagonia was not singled out randomly due to two reasons at least, sources told Focus News Agency.
Bishop Petar, who is known for investing the assets of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in the Bitola financial pyramid TAT, has a negative attitude to Bulgaria. It was his idea for Bulgarian tourists, who visit the churches in the eparchy, to ask for a special permission from the bishop’s office. He insisted that the team of Bulgarian journalist Martin Karbovski should not be admitted to Saint George church in the village of Capari, Bitola region. The Bitola bishop refuses to appoint priests who graduated from the Seminary in Sofia. He does not apply the same standards to priests who have graduated from the Seminary in Bucharest, for example.
The second reason for the approach of “erasing Bulgarian material memories” is absolutely geographical and military – the eparchy includes the towns of Bitola, Prilep, Resen, Demir Hisar, Krusevo and others, as well as the monasteries Saint Michael the Archangel in Varos, Prilep region, Assumption of Virgin Mary in Treskavec, Saint Joan the Baptist in Slipce, Birth of Virgin Mary in Slivnica, Prespa region, and others.
Most of the above mentioned monasteries still hold material traces of Bulgarian spiritual culture, despite a series of attempts to destroy and erase them.
One of the most severe battles of the Bulgarian Armed Forces against Serbian Royal Army and united forces of the Triple Entente took place between 1915 and 1918 on the territory of today’s eparchy of Prespa and Pelagonia. Dozens of thousands of monuments to known and unknown Bulgarian officers and soldiers, mass military graves and common graves lie on the territory of the eparchy. Most of them are situated in church yards and in abandoned villages and hamlets along the Macedonian-Greek border.
In the eparchy there are two French military cemeteries, as well as Serbian, German and Greek military cemeteries.
The new provocative measures undertaken by the regime of Nikola Gruevski show that the political leadership of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia decided to create a virtual reality as a substitute for normal free life of its citizens. The Prime Minister of the small Balkan nation, termed “the immortal and eternal shepherd and leader of his people” by the state TV continued the policy of historical revisionism carried through occult usurpation of the space much to the disbelief and revolt among outside observers which slowly but steadily begun to understand its eerie monstrosity.
Since its [...]
Read the full comment separation from Yugoslavia in 1991, FYROM struggled with its troubled past originating from the ideology of separate “Macedonian” nation formulated by the Bulgarian VMRO, later by Communist Internationale in 1934 and implemented on its soil from 1944 onwards by Yugoslav Communist dictator Josip Broz “Tito”. While there is a convergence in the global Balkanology-oriented historiography that prior to 1944 most of FYROMian so-called “Macedonian” population was ethnically Bulgarian, energetic Titoist policy of allocating large funds to creation of schools, media outlets, institutions, museums and other cultural institution among the hitherto extremely backward people managed to instill a strong sense of one’s “Macedonian” ethnicity, neither Bulgarian, nor Serb and categorically as well as diametrically opposed to any other interpretation of local culture and politics. After 60 years of such totalitarian “national-communist” model which is continued today in altered form by the ruling “Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization” (VMRO), this view escalated into widespread belief among the general public that the Pseudomacedonian ethnic group has its direct ancestry from Ancient Macedonians, a Greek entity bulk of which historically inhabited modern-day northern Greek province of Macedonia.
A mountain of evidence exists against this postulated linear connection brought by two centuries of historical and linguistic studies against any connection, including those of cultural, linguistic and demographical type between Macedonians of antiquity and FYROMian Slavs of Bulgarian and Serbian type. However, the lack of any kind of public discourse as well as absence of alternative media brought confusion about the national identity of the population of self-styled Bulgarian-speaking “Macedonians”. Although, with the possible exception of North Korea, the phenomenon of collective government-imposed delusion in FYROM is the largest and most profound such example in modern times, it didn’t attract the due interest from scholars and thinkers worldwide. History and politicology never hitherto witnessed that a massive disposition in an ethnic groups towards symbolical connection with a imagined ancestral stock whose alien character is apparent from a cursory glance over history, geography and facts of language may function as a central foundation of both internal and external politics in their totality
a couple of posts down you claim (you and a whole lot of skopjans) that the Rosetta stone was written in Protoslav.....how can anyone take you seriously Peter?
To David the second.David, I will try to make it plain for you what I mean nipple and greese.Greece has maintained that Macedonia and its history are Greek.Well, I disagree with them fo the following reason;Macedonia never belonged to Greece,in ancient times or reasont times.The wheell with the bearing and the greese nipple represents Greeces repetitive claimes of ownership of Macedonia and its history.Now that Macedonia gained its independance from Serbia(Yugoslavja)is reclaiming its own history.What does that mean?Greece has been telling the world that Macedonia is Greece,it is comming to an end,as of the result the wheel bearing and greese [...]
Read the full comment niple have seized to operate"seized-up"they cannot continue to claime "Macedonia is Greece",do you understand what I mean?Macedonia is the rightful owner of the Macedonian history and its people,NOT Greece.Therefore,Greeces oiling(fabricating) mechanism is coming to a full STOP due to no more oil reaching the bearing,it is seizing, cannot turn any more for Greece.On the Vasilis Dendramanis,he was a high ranking Greek representative at the Serves meeting of the League of Nations regarding Macedonia in 1925.He told the Bulgarians and Serbs that greece is printing the Abcedar for the Macedonian children, when both Serbs and Bulgarians protested not to print the Abcedar in Macedonian. Mr.Dendramanis defended the Macedonian language as being"Neigther Bulgarian,nor Serbian but an independent language"He listed various linguists and linguistic maps as evidance to support his claim of the independence of the Macedonian language. The High ranking Greek official representing the Greek State not only recognized the existance of Macedonian identity, but openly defended and supported it.However,Serbian and Bulgarian objections, together with internal opposition in Greece prevented the Abcedar from ever reaching the Macedonian children.The Abcedar was destroyed, but remaines as a reminder to the Greek government of the Macedonians as a sepatate national entity.I sincerely hope,I answered your question.On this site there are two Peters,but it is only me who defends my ethnicity,and not supporting the Greek propaganda.
I am reluctantly coming to the view that Peter is rapidly losing his (Elgin ?) Marbles. He doesn't answer reasonable points made to him, and increasingly rants on about a future scenario in which Makedonija Rules The World. I don't support the Greek cause, but
this sort of idealistic nonsense makes a mockery of sensible discussion.
I'll give you a date in the future when the Republic of Macedonia will rule europe once again! We shall conquer Pirin Macedonia and Aegean Macedonia and you shall bow down to Great Macedonia!
Peter is being a bit careless with his dates or his millenia - there was no invasion of Britain by sub-Saharan Africans in "1500 AD " as he claims. This was during the reign of King Henry VII, who was adept at avoiding wars and invasions alike. May I suggest that Peter communes with the spirit of Einstein to ensure that he gets his dates right within a few thousand years or so ? It would
rather add credibility to his arguments if he were to do so.
The Republic of Macedonia will not be bullied by David nor by the "big powers" and greece any more. Who are you to doubt the legitimacy and archaic origins of the glorious Macedonian language? YOu are after descendants of subsaharan africans (they invaded Britain in 1500 AD). Even Einstein glorified the Macedonian language.
Still doubtful about Peter's claim that Macedonian is the oldest language in the world - what about Mandarin Chinese or the Inca / Aztec languages, to say nothing of the ancient languages of Indo-China ? Japanese too goes back a very long way into history.
What I mean to say that Macedonian language is the oldest in the world, older than bastardized greek. Eglish and latin were both founded based on the Macedonian language. Just read what Einstein said in glory of the Macedonian language
When Peter talks about the "greese in the wheel", does he mean "grease" or "Greece". Both would fit into the context. What he means by the "nipple breaking off" I daren't imagine ! I don't know who on earth Vasilis Dendramanis is - though the name sounds Hellenic to me, and "dendros" means a tree in Greek, so I suppose it might translate as Vasilis the Wooden-Top ?
Actually, it has been proven that the ancient Macedonian language was Albanian. Alexander himself was Albanian by descent. Skopje became a country only in the 1990s...you're not even 50 yrs old. If you truly are Macedonians then why didnt you claim all of the Macedonian region instead of only geting the Vadar region?
Macedonia for Albanians!
Just to make it very clear to the Greek and Bulgarians,the Macedonian language is neither Bulgarian nor Serbian nor Greek,it is an independent language.Read what Vasilis Dendramanis said to the Bulgarians and Serbs in 1925.The propaganda Greeks and Bulgarians are engaged in is drying out the greese in the wheel.The wheel of falsification of history can no longer be greesed,the nipple broke off since 1991.
Brandon and David you have been influenced by the Big Powers who have rewritten history. The Macedonian language is the oldest in the world so how could your welsh, lithunian and greek be older? This an obvious example of the ethnic genocide of the Macedonian language by greece and the big powers. You British arent even pure anglo saxons. After the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic invasion of Morea (the modern day Peleponnesus) and the Aegean islands around 1,600 BC, the sub-saharan africans migrated north of europe and invaded Britain. Your origins are sub-saharan african!
Brandon has a point - let's all look back at our respective national antecedents. In my case Cymreig (Welsh) is the oldest extant language in Europe, and is also Yr Iaith Ar Nefoedd (the language used in Heaven by God and the Angels). The next oldest is apparently Lithuanian, which has very many archaic Indo-European features such as the use of the dual number (i.e. singular - dual- plural. Ancient Greek had this too.
So is all of Greek history just "Makedonski"? So everything about Greek history that the universities teach from Oxford all the way to Harvard just a lie?
Your ultra PseudoMacedonia fanaticism created by Tito is testimony of your own delusion. Ok every one, let's just start fabricating our own history like Peter.
Also, the Olympian gods were actually Macedonian and not greek as the Great Powers have led us to believe. For example, Zeus is the original Macedonian name of the father of the gods but the greeks even to this day call him Dias. Zeus is the Macedonian name and Dias is the greek name.
Now that we have agreed on the ProtoSlav origins of the Rosetta Stone I can tell you now that it should not be a shock that the Macedonian language influenced the celtic and hebrew languanges thousand of years ago. Greek is a relatively new language. Everyone thinks that greek was the first language to use a separate symbol for vowels but it was in fact the Macedonian language. Thus the Macedonian language has had more of an influence on the english language than greek. For example, the letter Alpha was originally Macedonian but over the years we just used the [...]
Read the full comment sound "A" to refer to alpha to simplify matters. See the greeks are still in the stone age since they still have actual names for their letters.
Thanks indeed to Peter for posting this interesting bit of "scholarship". I don't doubt that the middle 'band' of the Rosetta stone may conceal some secrets still to be revealed. But I still cannot see any link to Celtic or to Old French (and, believe me, if you knew the old Celtic Uncial alphabet that goes back 4000 years, you would recognise it immediately. Microsoft don't do it, but I still remember it from school in Wales and can write it if need be. The Irish can too, if they are scholars.)
"Greek", In Reality, Was Just Another Ancient Pre-Christian Religious Term!
Before the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic invasion of Morea (the modern day Peleponnesus) and the Aegean islands around 1,600 BC, there were already major towns called 'Argos' at Morea and to the northwest of Mt.Olympus. The term 'Graikos' referred to both peoples from the two towns of Argos.Ar-gos > Ar/the Sun god 'Ra', gos > kos/'zeus'.
(G)-ra-i-kos > Zh(ive)-ra-i-kos/the 'life giving' Sun god 'Ra' 'and' 'zeus'.
The 'Graikos' from "Argos" were a people whom believed in the 'life giving' Sun god 'ra' and 'zeus'. The [...]
Read the full comment 'Graikos' from the 'Argos' which was to the northwest of Mt. Olympus also called themselves 'Sloveni'.
S-lo-ve > Zh(ive)-li (Zhi)vee/the 'life giving' Sun god 'li' 'lives'.
The 'Graikos' from the 'Argos' at Morea also called themselves 'Elleni'.
E-lle > (zhiv)E-lle/the 'life giving' 'Sun god' 'le'.
After the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic invasion of Morea and the Aegean islands around 1,600 BC (and the subsequent assimilation) the 'Elleni' there became "hybrids" and started to call themselves "Ellines". Their indigenous language and alphabet had changed to an early form of 'koine'.
Ironically, the Sub-Saharan/Afro-Asiatic colonists themselves had already believed in 'Ra' and 'Ko' (zeus)!
From 825 BC, north of Mt. Olympus, the indigenous 'Sloveni' there became unified within the early state of Makedon (Mothers home).
After the early state of Makedon was formed, the "Ellines" south of Mt.Olympus, particularly around Morea, started to form independent of each other City State!
It doesn't come as a surprise that later Roman maps refer to the territory of Morea as "Achaea".
A(r)-chae-a > A(r)-gae-a. Achaea is derived from the original town at Argos!
The "Southern Balkan (Mediterranean) Republic" is an artificial creation! It is not "Greece"!
The 19th century cold blooded Western Powers wrongly imposed the name "Greece" on this forged, anti-Slav/anti-Russian buffer state!
Bastardized Koine, (not Greek!) too, was artificially imposed on its ethnically diverse population!
In 1913, backed by the west, the "Southern Balkan (Mediterranean) Republic" (not Greece) illegally annexed 51% of Southern Macedonia from the Ottomans!
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So Celtic has proto-Macedonian roots too, says Peter. Do please give some examples. (I should warn you that I know both Welsh / Cymraeg and Irish / Gaeltacht. ) Otherwise this is as much of a fairy story as the Rosetta Stone containing Old French or Old Macedonian (funny, last time I saw it here in London, I could have sworn it was in two sorts of Egyptian hieroglyphics and a dialect of Ancient Greek. Maybe I
should buy new, Macedonian-coloured, spectacles so as to see the Old French and Celtic uncial script properly.)
The Macedonian language is very old, even Celtic has Macedonian roots and origins....that's how old it is.
Every single empire that has conquered they made sure to spread their culture and LANGUAGE. Yes, Greek was the international language back in the day but that did not stop the Romans from spreading their own language, Latin. So do tell us Peter, if the Macedonians were Skopjian, then why did they not spread their own language, "protoslav" or "macedonian"?
The Rosetta Stone was not written in Old French but in ProtoSlav, the Macedonian language today which is the official language of the Republic of Macedonian. The Macedonian language is the oldest language in the world, older than Latin and Greek. The Macedonians only spoke Greek during formal occasions but the rest of the time they spoke Macedonian. Even the Hebrews in the Old Testament spoke Macedonian
to Real Macedonian - never mind the Skopjan claim for the moment -
just justify your own rather improbable claim that the Rosetta Stone is partly written in Old French. If you can't do this, we can't take you seriously. (Since the Rosetta Stone was first discovered by Napoleon's army, who included a lot of educated officers who knew the old form of their own French language, one would have thought that they might
have noticed this themselves !)
So how credible is the Skopjian claim that the Rosetta Stone was written in Egyptian, Greek, and Slavic?
Here's the challenge to "Real Macedonian" - just give me one short but clear example of the similarity between Old French and either Ancient Greek or Doric Macedonian. Until then I shall have to find your view of history seriously ridiculous. (And for the Rosetta Stone being in Egyptian, Greek and Old French, really.....that strains credibity just too far.) C'est trop loyn, mon
vieux, sans quelle esperance.
And where did the Etruscans get their alphabet. Also, the Phoenician alphabet did not have letters for vowels, that was invented by the Macedonians. Besides the fact, are you so quick to believe those crazy "historians" in Skopje and yet you find my view on history ridiculous?
Grateful if Real Macedonian could give me an actual example of Doric Macedonian against its Old French equivalent. It does sound just a bit incredible otherwise, especially as the Greek alphabet came from Phoenician, the Latin alphabet from Etruscan, and the Celtic alphabet (Uncial) direct from God ! Seriously, it's all just a bit hard to believe. (I know King Louis V of France led a Crusade in the region in the middle ages - maybe this is the origin of the story ?)
Also, the Rosetta Stone was written in Egyptian, Greek and Old French. That is why we can read it and the Skopjians cannot.
Obviously David 2 you have never studied the Doric dialect the ancient Macedonians spoke then you would see the similarities. Also, where do you suppose Latin came from?
The ancient Macedonians were French in descent and not Slavic/Skopjian
to Real Macedonian - WHAT resemblance between Old French and Greek? I studied both languages at Uni, and Old French is related to Latin, not Greek. Both languages are Indo-European, sure, with six verb persons and separate declined adjectives and nouns, but this also includes all Slavonic languages too. (Look at Hungarian, which is totally different, and you will see what I mean !)
Just as an exercise, try putting Henri III's poetic couplet : "Ou est celuy vivant en France, Qui endurast tel mortel desplesir" - which is authentic old French, into either modern or [...]
Read the full comment ancient Greek, and then seek for any resemblance.
Bof, je m'en fou.
Macedonia is Greece stop to say lies,stop propaganda.
You guys are nuts....
READ history and stop saying bullshit
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Ethnic Macedonians do not exist, Macedonians were Albanians and so was Alexander. Is there any slav out there intelligent enough to answer why the Rosetta Stone was written in albanian and not in Skopjian? If Skopje is Macedonia, then answer why in the 1990s when Skopje gained independence why didn't it get all of Macedonia instead of just the Vadar region??? Bet you cant answer that can you? Or why did Demosthenes called the Philip and his men Albanians but not "Makedonski"? Or why the Ottomans never mentioned a thing of "ethnic Macedonians" in Macedonia but just a majority of [...]
Read the full comment Albanians?
Macedonia for Albanians!
Republic of Macedonia has no need to negotiate its constitutional name.Just for information towards the so-called Greeks.Today as we speak,there are no Hellens in Greece.The ancient Hellens have dissapiered long time ago.I find it ironic when an Albanian,Koutsovlah claimes Hellenism that has abpsolutly no ancestral connection.When they claim that Macedonia is Greece,the fact is,Macedonians are not even close to the pseudo Greeks,Ancient Macedonians and ancient Hellens have absolutly no ancestral connection with todays pseudo-Greeks.It is ilagical,it is a fabrication of a nonesical greek history.Here is a question for the Greeks;Why in 1912-13 at the Bucharest agreement Greece agreed to retain [...]
Read the full comment 51% of Macedonian teritory,and allowing Bulgaria and Serbia to take the 49% of the teritory?If Macedonia is Greek,why did you walk away from the whole geografical Macedonia?In 337 BC why Demosthenes wrote for the Hellenic common grave,but not for the fallen Macedonians at Chaeronea?.Is there an inteligent Greek who can realy answer this whithout bias?.Lets have a real dialog on history without distortion of history.Lets use common sense,and not continue just with politics.
Actually the ancient Macedonians were were a Gallic tribe from the north that colonized the Macedonia region. So therefore, the Macedonians and Alexander were actually French in descent which explains the grammatical similarities between old French and Greek. The Macedonians were not slavic as there is no evidence of it and todays population of Skopje have NO relation to the true Macedonians
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although all people from different backrounds living in the geographicly region of Macedonia have the right to call themselfs Macedonians,is absurd for them to claim the hellenic heritage as firstly not being Helenic and then claiming it as their own,truly absurd!
Macedonia and Alexander were Bulgarian. Ancient Macedonians spoke a dialect of Bulgarian and Skopje was Bulgarian before it ever was "Makedonski". Macedonia for Bulgarians!
Pleeeeeease Greece, Just let us Slavs be Greeks as well???
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Republic of Macedonia has no reason to negotiate its constitutional name.The Macedonian citizens did vote freely in 1991 for their identity as Macedonians.Macedonia must put a stop on these negotiations foethwhith.The Republic of Albanoturkia has no right to dictate a name to an independent State that the name identifies their ethnicity.Furthere,the claim by the so-called "Greece"on Macedonia being "Greek" is absurd.The UN is out of line by asking a State to change its identity because another State claims it identifies their identity. If that is the case,why "Greece" does not change their name to Republic of Macedonia.Ever since 1913,Greece called [...]
Read the full comment the Aegean Macedonia as Hellas,and never Macedonia.The word Macedonia was forbiden up to 1989,why now!Well, Greece has a reason,and that reason is the ocupied Macedonia and its indiginous Macedonian people that this State refuses to recognize as separate ethnic people.This would criple their claim of 99% purity of being Hellens even that they have no connection to the ancient Hellens.They refuse to acknowledge the mix of people living in this State.Their population mix is as follows;40% Albanian,over 1 million Turks,1 million indiginous Macedonians, Vlahs,Roma, Jews and other immigrants.They are guarding the virginity that they lost and never had!The world should know that Greece received 51% of Macedonian teritory and Serbia and Bulgaria received 49%,thanks to the Big Powers of the day (England and France),even the the President of the USA Wodrow Wilsons signature on the division of Macedonia in Bucharest of August 12-13,1913.Why the UN does not call on the Balkan,or International historians to sort out the real Balkan history,instead presuring a small independent State to relinquish its identity that caried for centuries in this geografical area.The people of the Republic of Macedonia,Aegian Macedonia the Pirin Macedonia and small Prespa.This was the geografic Macedonia that all people in these areas speak the same language,their customs and worship same religion,different than the occupiers of 1913.Why is the world turning a blind eye to the truth? I am from the Aegean Macedonian, I am Macedonian.My great,great parents were Macedonian long before Macedonia was occupied by the Ottoman Empire.The Ottoman Empire never imposed changes to names to sound Turkish,no changes to toponims like the Hellenic Republic has done to the occupied Macedonians.They even broke the Cardinal rule of not mixing the indigenous people with different ethnicities like the Greeks did with the Pontious in 1925-26 who are of Turkish dicent,who are of same religion but not same ethnicity as the Greeks.If any Macedonian Leader attemps to change our identity should be charged for treason and dealt with.
" LONG LIVE TITO " LONG LIVE COMMUNISM, STILL ALLIVE IN FYROM!!
I say we just merge Greece and Turkey since racially you are the same..
We have a variety of roots- just like modern greeks. And even if we are pure slavs (not likely) we have lived in Macedonia for 14 centuries. Long enough to belong there.
bulgars pseudomacedonians ,same shit.
Skopjians are Bulgarians same language same ethnic background.
Skopjians must accept their Slavic roots. There is no shame in being a Slavic person. Slavic people migrated from the north down to present lands in the Balkans. As a Slavic person I am happy to state that we never had anything to do with Macedon the Ancient Greek Kingdom. We must push our Slavic history which does not include Macedonia.
Long live Slavics!!!
Just merge skopia and Bulgaria together since it's obvious it's the same people.......