ANTON MITEV ("TONNY"), art teacher and owner of a car rental business in Sofia, and PRAVDOLIUB IVANOV, visual artist and photographer, talk about their lives  before and after November 10, 1989, the fall of Todor Zhivkov.

Who were you at this time?
TONNY: I was an artist, just finishing my degree in fine art at the Academy.
PRAVDO: I was a student on a second course at the National Academy of Fine Arts, studying in the painting department.

Did you expect any changes? What did you anticipate?
TONNY: I knew that we were going from `stupid socialism' to `savage capitalism'. Like my parents, I supported the CDC [The Union of Democratic Forces] and was disappointed that, like all the others, it was only a career for these politicians. They were intellectuals, but only had the `look'. They were actors, the same as the communists. They lied to the people, which led the people to believe that after 10 years they would be disappointed regardless of whom their leaders were. It was a difficult time; there was no choice; they had no voice. There were only false promises of a good life.
PRAVDO: There was a huge billboard or poster in front of the cinema Serdika (now Hotel Serdika on Vassil Levski Boulevard) for the film The Last Emperor, directed by Bernardo Bertolucci. This was sometime in late 1988 or early 1989. The boyfriend of my sister and our flatmate went during the night and wrote Tosho on the poster - which is a nickname for Zhivkov - so when you read it, you read `The Last Emperor Tosho'. The next day, it had already been removed by officials.
No one deeply believed that something would happen. It was more of a wish for something to happen.
Also, one night, we were walking in a group of about six, and when we reached a street-crossing light, if it was red, we'd boo until it changed to green. Then we'd say "Hurrah!". Everyone on the street recognised what we were doing. Some were laughing; some were angry.

What, if anything, did you see as clues to his downfall/the downfall in general?
TONNY: The people were getting anxious; there was unrest and change in the air. When people began to hold demonstrations, we all knew something would happen.
PRAVDO: There were some clues. Changes started in Russia, but of course, looking back, everything looks very clear. If someone tells you that in the air, there was a wind of change, that's not true. It was a wind of wish.

What did you do when you heard of his resignation?
TONNY: I knew it was significant, however, I was young and uninterested in who was the face of power and instead was painting and having fun at the Black Sea.
PRAVDO: I didn't believe it: I heard it from a girl who had cheated on me once. I went home, watched TV, we saw [Zhivkov's] dummy face, and we went out on the street and we (four guys) jumped and shouted. And we were not alone. It's strange that other people went on the street to express their feelings, also.
I remember the next morning, I thought: "Was it true what happened last night, or was it a dream?".

Why do people not speak about his repressions that are often labelled cruel, but instead remember him as a popular leader?
TONNY: It's very difficult to explain this in English. There was totalitarianism, making the people ignorant of freedom, capital, money, shopping. They didn't know the world outside and what others were doing. They didn't have a basis for comparison, because Zhivkov, the communists, had closed the window to the world. People had sustenance, clothing, food, a girl, but no money.
PRAVDO: It's not true. Why the focus on Zhivkov? What do you mean `people'? If you ask people who suffered, you'll receive suffering answers. Actually, [and I absorbed this] from my parents, he probably exchanged the cruel system with more hidden expressions. He was more clever, not so ruthless. I think he succeeded in creating or organising the system of `self-stealing'. It's my term to explain the system of fake freedom. You allow people to steal, and they feel free. But actually, they steal from themselves. When people were not paid enough, but allowed to steal, they added a bit to their budgets. They were corrupted: they lived with feelings of guilt, and lived in dependence on the system. It's a circle. And because that circle lasted for 30 to 40 years, it's really hard to stop it. It's domestic corruption: little enough so that people could sleep well, but it was eroding: life, eroding dignity.
Тhere was a time when my father was refused service in a butcher shop because he had long hair. "If I shave my hair, will you give me the meat without paying?" he said. He was really mad.  Men with long hair had their hair shaved off in public places. Police were allowed to catch you, and if you couldn't show that you were an artist or an actor, they could bring you to the shaving area and shave you. Women with short skirts were arrested or had their thighs stamped with a semi-permanent tattoo.

When people held mass demonstrations across the country in November 1989, what were the feelings at that time?
TONNY: It was a `soft' revolution and in a way, stupid. There was idealism for freedom, an inspiration to travel outside Bulgaria. I was at the Black Sea, painting and `making' my son. I watched things on TV; there were huge fires at the Communist party leaders' homes. The people wanted freedom and an end to totalitarianism.
PRAVDO: Of freedom. We were demonstrating against so many things. In the constitution, the first line was "Bulgarian Communist party is the only party, and it leads the country". When we had a newly elected Parliament, people demonstrated against this line.
All the changes were made by pressure. Communists never, never step down without pressure. If someone has an illusion that communism is an evolving system, it's wrong.
Students were involved a lot. Free time, free of engagements, free of dues. Exactly what Marcuse said about them. It's funny that I'm quoting a neo-Marxist.
What I felt at that time, taking occupation of the Academy, but never being a leader or member of a party.
When we occupied the Academy and blocked studying, the passive students went to their villages. The rest - the active - stayed at the Academy. So it looked like the whole The Academy was very active, against the Government, etc. It's just that the passive had a long, long vacation. And the active had a long, long occupation and demonstration.

Were people happy/satisfied with the limited freedoms they were granted after the `change', including liberalisation of the media, toleration of public protests, and abolishment of the privileges of the party officials, or did they want more?
TONNY: Again it depended on their desire for freedom. We were always looking towards the future, but we knew it would be a difficult future.
PRAVDO: The Communist party gave a little, and, of course, people wanted more.
I became alive. All of what happened happened after. No, I think the past is probably quite an important part of my mind. No one can pretend he's not affected by communism. It's like nuclear radiation. But, I think we're among the last generation to remember, to be affected. It's the same infection.
Last night, on Big Brother, a young girl - 17 or 18 - questioned all the people on the show: "What's the difference between communism and capitalism?". That really shocked me. That's a very significant question. She really didn't know.

Was it legitimate when the BSP won again?  What did people think about it and what were the most common reactions?  Did anyone you know participate in student protests, hunger strikes, burning of communist symbols, or live in the tent city in front of Parliament?
TONNY: It was legitimate because people were in fear of an uncertain future. There were many students who participated in the demonstrations and took part in hunger strikes because they wanted a new constitution. I was young and only watched. I wasn't working in politics or philosophy but was instead focused on my art. My parents took part with their fists in the air and were out every week, everyday at Alexander Nevski, which was the site of opposition. It is incorrect to call it a revolution, as it was instead an opposition to the ruling party.
PRAVDO: At tent city, we had all the protests, all the meetings, all the marches. Some were very spectacular, like the Candle Meeting on June 9. Thousands of people, thousands of candles, protesting against communism. It was a mute protest. People just came with candles and stayed for an hour. Really a lead atmosphere. Very spectacular, very inspiring. You feel you're part of a mass, a crowd that shares your wishes.
What suppressed me a lot before was that I could see my entire life - graduate, become an official artist, return to my native city [Plovdiv] and take part in annual exhibits. Award shows every year, and that's all, till the end. A very depressing picture. The depressing feeling of sureness, of predictability. The awful mentally destroying feeling that you could see ahead and nothing interesting would happen in your life.
When it changed, nothing was sure, not even the next day. Such an adrenaline time. So full of energy, inspiring. You could imagine anything happening in your life.
Now it sounds strange. Of course it's a part of my life. But now, talking, it sounds so absurd, like it happened to someone else. I'm distanced. It's like someone told me, and now I tell you.

Todor Zhivkov was ruler of Bulgaria for 35 years, making him the longest-serving leader of any of the nations of the Eastern bloc. He was forced to resign on November 10 1989 by fellow communist officials after mass demonstrations. However, he was allowed to live in Boyana under house arrest until he died.